Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 Dear Richard thank you for sharing your impressions in India with all of us. In His Grace michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 > > Dear Richard > > thank you for sharing your impressions in India with all of us. > > In His Grace > > > michael I second your thanks to Richard, Michael I fwd the article to other forums Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 , " Era " <mi_nok wrote: > > > > > Dear Richard > > > > thank you for sharing your impressions in India with all of us. > > > > In His Grace > > > > > > michael > > > I second your thanks to Richard, Michael > > I fwd the article to other forums > > Era > Namaste, Yes I noticed you put it on GuruRatings, at least. Lets hope the advertising doesn't result in one person being hurt or one child being sexually abused.......I'm glad its not on my conscience, but then I was an officer in the sai organisation and know the truth...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Deat Tony, I too certainly hope no one is hurt by this (or any posting). In posting I try always to 'report' what I have seen. Always I know that there is more to most things than what I can see, expecially in a place like India. As I looked at Sathya Sai Baba on the internet after your email, I sure see notices of possible issues. I also see reports of acts of great good, like charity hospitals, water projects that benefit the stated of Andra Pradesh, and more. I saw great riches that were spent on buildings at the ashram, also food and merchandise sold, clearly, with little or no desire for profit. I also know several serious-minded western residents here who see themselves as devotees and are deeply committed and live their lives accordingly. They both talk of 'inner instruction.' This is not really anything out of my experience. I also know there are reports of negative books written against Sri Ramana. And more directly with what I know from my own experiences, I have read terribly negative stories on the Internet about my own teacher, none of which fit any experience I had in over 15 years with him. They were put there maliciously, generated by one who had great jealousy, attempting to harm. At one level, I think one probably should take care in criticizing another seekers teacher or guru. In so doing, you might jeopardize another's spiritual practice. But for Sai I am sure that you know more about Sai than I ever will, as you say you were a former officer. I saw that thousands of people are attracted. I am not particularly attracted for myself. Inquiry is much more internal. For me, with the inquiry comes bhakti. IF I need some object for this, Arunachala suffices just fine. Thanks for your comments and concern for others. Om Arunachala, Richard , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > , " Era " <mi_nok@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Richard > > > > > > thank you for sharing your impressions in India with all of us. > > > > > > In His Grace > > > > > > > > > michael > > > > > > I second your thanks to Richard, Michael > > > > I fwd the article to other forums > > > > Era > > > Namaste, > > Yes I noticed you put it on GuruRatings, at least. Lets hope the > advertising doesn't result in one person being hurt or one child > being sexually abused.......I'm glad its not on my conscience, but > then I was an officer in the sai organisation and know the > truth...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Dearest Tony and Richard, Thank you for your e-mails and postings on this topic. You have both explained yourself and the reason you hold your views. I don't know where the fine balance is to be found in these things of controversy and discussion. This group is devoted to the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi that center on going within with Self-Inquiry. The ultimate medicine and antidote to our suffering is to find out who we are. That is Bhagavan's teaching. Those of us who take Sri Ramana as our Sat-Guru, other gurus hold little attraction. Dearest Richard, you need not say that there were negative books written about Sri Ramana to justify negative controversies about Sai Baba or Nome or any other Gurus. Tony, I have seen you 10 years ago from having been a sincere devotee of Sai Baba to now having gone in the other direction. All through that time, you have said many things on the list which were controversial. Even though I respect you personally, you have been put on moderations by moderators and possibly even myself. I can't remember now. It used to happen so often. Tony, you know very well that long term members have a lot flexibility in expressing their views and that they are never put on permanent moderation. Because of everything you have experienced, I have a special soft spot for you. I understand and respect where you are coming from. I still remember the stories you have told on the list about you and Bertrand Russell and vegetarianism and they always bring a smile to my face. All right, I have no idea exactly what else to say. Lots of love brothers Tony, Richard, and Yosy. Namaste and love to all Yours in Bhagavan Harsha On Behalf Of Richard Clarke Monday, September 29, 2008 6:14 AM Re: ATT RICHARD CLARK Deat Tony, I too certainly hope no one is hurt by this (or any posting). In posting I try always to 'report' what I have seen. Always I know that there is more to most things than what I can see, expecially in a place like India. As I looked at Sathya Sai Baba on the internet after your email, I sure see notices of possible issues. I also see reports of acts of great good, like charity hospitals, water projects that benefit the stated of Andra Pradesh, and more. I saw great riches that were spent on buildings at the ashram, also food and merchandise sold, clearly, with little or no desire for profit. I also know several serious-minded western residents here who see themselves as devotees and are deeply committed and live their lives accordingly. They both talk of 'inner instruction.' This is not really anything out of my experience. I also know there are reports of negative books written against Sri Ramana. And more directly with what I know from my own experiences, I have read terribly negative stories on the Internet about my own teacher, none of which fit any experience I had in over 15 years with him. They were put there maliciously, generated by one who had great jealousy, attempting to harm. At one level, I think one probably should take care in criticizing another seekers teacher or guru. In so doing, you might jeopardize another's spiritual practice. But for Sai I am sure that you know more about Sai than I ever will, as you say you were a former officer. I saw that thousands of people are attracted. I am not particularly attracted for myself. Inquiry is much more internal. For me, with the inquiry comes bhakti. IF I need some object for this, Arunachala suffices just fine. Thanks for your comments and concern for others. Om Arunachala, Richard , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > , " Era " <mi_nok@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Richard > > > > > > thank you for sharing your impressions in India with all of us. > > > > > > In His Grace > > > > > > > > > michael > > > > > > I second your thanks to Richard, Michael > > > > I fwd the article to other forums > > > > Era > > > Namaste, > > Yes I noticed you put it on GuruRatings, at least. Lets hope the > advertising doesn't result in one person being hurt or one child > being sexually abused.......I'm glad its not on my conscience, but > then I was an officer in the sai organisation and know the > truth...> --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 , " Harsha " wrote: > > Dearest Tony and Richard, > > Thank you for your e-mails and postings on this topic. You have both > explained yourself and the reason you hold your views. I don't know where > the fine balance is to be found in these things of controversy and > discussion. Harsha, I try not to get too controversial, just post the url and leave it to them. For some reason Era resurrects the same guru, knowing there will always be a reaction from somebody. Richard no doubt was unaware of the many controversies involved. My reaction is getting a little more objective these days. I don't want to boil my cabbages again but let me just say this. All the works and seva are done by the Devotees, not the 'guru'. They contribute the money,the labour etc. Also in these type of organisations, it is necessary to keep capital and other projects going othewise the funds start to dry up. Even though this particular 'personality cult' is worth many billions of dollars already. As you say, this is a Ramana site, and his teaching is the one that I attempt to use and prefer. As he says any guru that takes you to more activity rather than less isn't a true guru...........Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: , " Harsha " wrote: > > Dearest Tony and Richard, > > Thank you for your e-mails and postings on this topic. You have both > explained yourself and the reason you hold your views. I don't know where > the fine balance is to be found in these things of controversy and > discussion. Harsha, I try not to get too controversial, just post the url and leave it to them. For some reason Era resurrects the same guru, knowing there will always be a reaction from somebody. Richard no doubt was unaware of the many controversies involved. My reaction is getting a little more objective these days. I don't want to boil my cabbages again but let me just say this. All the works and seva are done by the Devotees, not the 'guru'. They contribute the money,the labour etc. Also in these type of organisations, it is necessary to keep capital and other projects going othewise the funds start to dry up. Even though this particular 'personality cult' is worth many billions of dollars already. As you say, this is a Ramana site, and his teaching is the one that I attempt to use and prefer. As he says any guru that takes you to more activity rather than less isn't a true guru...........Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Dear Tony, I would be very interested to know the reference and the direct quote for this mention of Raman's opinions on Gurus and activity. This topic happens to coincide with some questions that I am having in my personal life. In Bhagavan. Seva.On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Seva S.P. Boyton <simon.boyton wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: , " Harsha " wrote: > > Dearest Tony and Richard, > > Thank you for your e-mails and postings on this topic. You have both > explained yourself and the reason you hold your views. I don't know where > the fine balance is to be found in these things of controversy and > discussion. Harsha, I try not to get too controversial, just post the url and leave it to them. For some reason Era resurrects the same guru, knowing there will always be a reaction from somebody. Richard no doubt was unaware of the many controversies involved. My reaction is getting a little more objective these days. I don't want to boil my cabbages again but let me just say this. All the works and seva are done by the Devotees, not the 'guru'. They contribute the money,the labour etc. Also in these type of organisations, it is necessary to keep capital and other projects going othewise the funds start to dry up. Even though this particular 'personality cult' is worth many billions of dollars already. As you say, this is a Ramana site, and his teaching is the one that I attempt to use and prefer. As he says any guru that takes you to more activity rather than less isn't a true guru...........Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 , " Seva S.P. Boyton " <simon.boyton wrote: > > Dear Tony, > > I would be very interested to know the reference and the direct quote for > this mention of Raman's opinions on Gurus and activity. This topic happens > to coincide with some questions that I am having in my personal life. > > In Bhagavan. > > Seva. Seva, The quote is in 'be as you are',,I think. Harsha has it as well for we discussed it on here some years ago..........Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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