Guest guest Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Mariusz,, > > On the Relativily Real level Gunas are only a description which applies to an individual mind-body system. They are in continuous flux and are different for each jiva, there is no such thing as a guna you can extract, put it under a so called scientific examination and say what it is as a scientific description. If they were unchanging we could call them real, as that is the definition of Real in Vedanta. > > The term Guna is a useful term to denote the changing psychological states of a deluded individual living in the dream of life. Yosyx gives you a good answer too. Why be concerned about these changing states? When you are in satva, a clear state of mind, encouraged through a vegetarian diet, one can practice and enjoy Self Enquiry more easily. > > On the dual level of relative reality everything is changing, especially the so called Gunas. If they ewere unchanging they could be termed Real. > > All kind regards, > > Alan > indeed. allow me a remark, though. reality/truth/self is not a state, and beyond sattva too, though occasionally it is refered to and described as such... the gunas can be likened to various shades, apparently guarding/protecting the flame of a lamp. the sattva is clear and transparent, letting all the light through unencumbered, rajas form a colorfull array, causing the light appear in many various colors and patterns; and the tamas to a shade so covered in soot that barely a ray can escape... but the " natural " , the unaffected and inexplicable brahman/atman/truth/self is the light itself. yosy > --- On Wed, 1/10/08, yosyx <yosyflug wrote: > > yosyx <yosyflug > Re: The gunas & time > > Wednesday, 1 October, 2008, 1:19 AM , " mortlake2002 " <shamshir@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Alan, > > > > Thank you again. I believe that I understand this - but I am > speaking > > on the level of duality. On the ultimate, non-dual level all > > concepts, categories, etc. are " extinct " . But what about the > > definition of reality as that which is unchanging? It can function > > only on the level of duality, just like the gunas; and on the dual > > level the gunas are apparently unchanging, aren't they? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Mariusz > > > > the all-containing self/reality, ever whole, > timeless and unchanagable, is beyond the duality > of existence/nonexiste nce. therefore, it does not > exist as far as the identifying, dual attitude is > concerned. the gunas, modes which indicate the > various attitudes are identity-dependende nt, and > thus extinct (non existing) in the unchanging.. . > > reality can not be contained and is therefore > undefinable. .. " if you trap the wind, it dies " . > true spirituality begins where definitions end hahaha > descriptions are not definitions. > > respectfully, > yosy > > ps. mariusz... are you polish? > > > > > > > , Alan Jacobs > > <alanadamsjacobs@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mariusz, > > >  > > > Everything perceived by the mind is an appearance on the screen > of > > consciousness- including thoughts, feelings, and the > > different states of the gunas, for the ajnani. > > >  > > > Only after Realisation are 'things' perceived seen as Real > because > > they are known from the 'no mind state' and the Jnani is aware of > the > > substratum which is Absolute Pure Consciousness or Brahman. > > >  > > >  But after Self Enquiry the rajistic stae and the tamastic > states > > are expelled along with vasanas , vrittis and skandas. Then only > > satva remains but that is only nominal as the Jnani  is now > in the > > Natural State, as ithe Self is no longer veiled by all that has > > been expelled. > > >  > > > I hope that is clearer. Ask again if you wish. > > >  > > > All best wishes and regards, > > >  > > > Alan > > > > > > --- On Tue, 30/9/08, mortlake2002 <shamshir@> wrote: > > > > > > mortlake2002 <shamshir@> > > > Re: The gunas & time > > > > > > Tuesday, 30 September, 2008, 1:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Alan Jacobs > > > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > In my view the Gunas only 'appear' to be permanent... > > > > > > Dear Alan, > > > > > > Thank you kindly for your reply. Could you possibly elaborate on > > your > > > statement above? I would like to know your exact line of > reasoning. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Mariusz > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Dear Yosyx, Thanks for your addition. Yes, Reality is not a state,rather a Guna free zone. I am in full agreement with your poetic description of the Gunas. Love, Alan --- On Wed, 1/10/08, yosyx <yosyflug wrote: yosyx <yosyflug Re: The gunas & time / alan Wednesday, 1 October, 2008, 4:08 AM , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Mariusz,, > > On the Relativily Real level Gunas are only a description which applies to an individual mind-body system. They are in continuous flux and are different for each jiva, there is no such thing as a guna you can extract, put it under a so called scientific examinati on and say what it is as a scientific description. If they were unchanging we could call them real, as that is the definition of Real in Vedanta. > > The term Guna is a useful term to denote the changing psychological states of a deluded individual living in the dream of life. Yosyx gives you a good answer too. Why be concerned about these changing states? When you are in satva, a clear state of mind, encouraged through a vegetarian diet, one can practice and enjoy Self Enquiry more easily. > > On the dual level of relative reality everything is changing, especially the so called Gunas. If they ewere unchanging they could be termed Real. > > All kind regards, > > Alan > indeed. allow me a remark, though. reality/truth/ self is not a state, and beyond sattva too, though occasionally it is refered to and described as such... the gunas can be likened to various shades, apparently guarding/protecting the flame of a lamp. the sattva is clear and transparent, letting all the light through unencumbered, rajas form a colorfull array, causing the light appear in many various colors and patterns; and the tamas to a shade so covered in soot that barely a ray can escape... but the " natural " , the unaffected and inexplicable brahman/atman/ truth/self is the light itself. yosy > --- On Wed, 1/10/08, yosyx <yosyflug@.. .> wrote: > > yosyx <yosyflug@.. .> > Re: The gunas & time > > Wednesday, 1 October, 2008, 1:19 AM , " mortlake2002 " <shamshir@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Alan, > > > > Thank you again. I believe that I understand this - but I am > speaking > > on the level of duality. On the ultimate, non-dual level all > > concepts, categories, etc. are " extinct " . But what about the > > definition of reality as that which is unchanging? It can function > > only on the level of duality, just like the gunas; and on the dual > > level the gunas are apparently unchanging, aren't they? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Mariusz > > > > the all-containing self/reality, ever whole, > timeless and unchanagable, is beyond the duality > of existence/nonexiste nce. therefore, it does not > exist as far as the identifying, dual attitude is > concerned. the gunas, modes which indicate the > various attitudes are identity-dependende nt, and > thus extinct (non existing) in the unchanging.. . > > reality can not be contained and is therefore > undefinable. .. " if you trap the wind, it dies " . > true spirituality begins where definitions end hahaha > descriptions are not definitions. > > respectfully, > yosy > > ps. mariusz... are you polish? > > > > > > > , Alan Jacobs > > <alanadamsjacobs@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mariusz, > > >  > > > Everything perceived by the mind is an appearance on the screen > of > > consciousness- including thoughts, feelings, and the > > different states of the gunas, for the ajnani. > > >  > > > Only after Realisation are 'things' perceived seen as Real > because > > they are known from the 'no mind state' and the Jnani is aware of > the > > substratum which is Absolute Pure Consciousness or Brahman. > > >  > > >  But after Self Enquiry the rajistic stae and the tamastic > states > > are expelled along with vasanas , vrittis and skandas. Then only > > satva remains but that is only nominal as the Jnani  is now > in the > > Natural State, as ithe Self is no longer veiled by all that has > > been expelled. > > >  > > > I hope that is clearer. Ask again if you wish. > > >  > > > All best wishes and regards, > > >  > > > Alan > > > > > > --- On Tue, 30/9/08, mortlake2002 <shamshir@> wrote: > > > > > > mortlake2002 <shamshir@> > > > Re: The gunas & time > > > > > > Tuesday, 30 September, 2008, 1:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Alan Jacobs > > > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > In my view the Gunas only 'appear' to be permanent... > > > > > > Dear Alan, > > > > > > Thank you kindly for your reply. Could you possibly elaborate on > > your > > > statement above? I would like to know your exact line of > reasoning. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Mariusz > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Dear Josey, I have heard the term " guna tita " , without gunas used for this. Om Arunachala, Richard , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Yosyx, > > Thanks for your addition. Yes, Reality is not a state,rather a Guna free zone. I am in full agreement with your poetic description of the Gunas. > > Love, > > Alan > > --- On Wed, 1/10/08, yosyx <yosyflug wrote: > > yosyx <yosyflug > Re: The gunas & time / alan > > Wednesday, 1 October, 2008, 4:08 AM , Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Mariusz,, > > > > On the Relativily Real level Gunas are only a description which > applies to an individual mind-body system. They are in continuous > flux and are different for each jiva, there is no such thing as a > guna you can extract, put it under a so called scientific examinati on > and say what it is as a scientific description. If they were > unchanging we could call them real, as that is the definition of Real > in Vedanta. > > > > The term Guna is a useful term to denote the changing > psychological states of a deluded individual living in the dream of > life. Yosyx gives you a good answer too. Why be concerned about these > changing states? When you are in satva, a clear state of > mind, encouraged through a vegetarian diet, one can practice and > enjoy Self Enquiry more easily. > > > > On the dual level of relative reality everything is changing, > especially the so called Gunas. If they ewere unchanging they could > be termed Real. > > > > All kind regards, > > > > Alan > > > > indeed. allow me a remark, though. reality/truth/ self > is not a state, and beyond sattva too, though occasionally > it is refered to and described as such... > the gunas can be likened to various shades, apparently > guarding/protecting the flame of a lamp. the sattva > is clear and transparent, letting all the light through > unencumbered, rajas form a colorfull array, causing the > light appear in many various colors and patterns; and > the tamas to a shade so covered in soot that barely > a ray can escape... but the " natural " , the unaffected and > inexplicable brahman/atman/ truth/self is the light itself. > > yosy > > > --- On Wed, 1/10/08, yosyx <yosyflug@ .> wrote: > > > > yosyx <yosyflug@ .> > > Re: The gunas & time > > > > Wednesday, 1 October, 2008, 1:19 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " mortlake2002 " > <shamshir@ .> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Alan, > > > > > > Thank you again. I believe that I understand this - but I am > > speaking > > > on the level of duality. On the ultimate, non-dual level all > > > concepts, categories, etc. are " extinct " . But what about the > > > definition of reality as that which is unchanging? It can > function > > > only on the level of duality, just like the gunas; and on the > dual > > > level the gunas are apparently unchanging, aren't they? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Mariusz > > > > > > > the all-containing self/reality, ever whole, > > timeless and unchanagable, is beyond the duality > > of existence/nonexiste nce. therefore, it does not > > exist as far as the identifying, dual attitude is > > concerned. the gunas, modes which indicate the > > various attitudes are identity-dependende nt, and > > thus extinct (non existing) in the unchanging.. . > > > > reality can not be contained and is therefore > > undefinable. .. " if you trap the wind, it dies " . > > true spirituality begins where definitions end hahaha > > descriptions are not definitions. > > > > respectfully, > > yosy > > > > ps. mariusz... are you polish? > > > > > > > > > > > , Alan Jacobs > > > <alanadamsjacobs@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Mariusz, > > > >  > > > > Everything perceived by the mind is an appearance on the screen > > of > > > consciousness- including thoughts, feelings, and the > > > different states of the gunas, for the ajnani. > > > >  > > > > Only after Realisation are 'things' perceived seen as Real > > because > > > they are known from the 'no mind state' and the Jnani is aware of > > the > > > substratum which is Absolute Pure Consciousness or Brahman. > > > >  > > > >  But after Self Enquiry the rajistic stae and the tamastic > > states > > > are expelled along with vasanas , vrittis and skandas. Then only > > > satva remains but that is only nominal as the Jnani  is now > > in the > > > Natural State, as ithe Self is no longer veiled by all that > has > > > been expelled. > > > >  > > > > I hope that is clearer. Ask again if you wish. > > > >  > > > > All best wishes and regards, > > > >  > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 30/9/08, mortlake2002 <shamshir@> wrote: > > > > > > > > mortlake2002 <shamshir@> > > > > Re: The gunas & time > > > > > > > > Tuesday, 30 September, 2008, 1:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Alan Jacobs > > > > <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > In my view the Gunas only 'appear' to be permanent... > > > > > > > > Dear Alan, > > > > > > > > Thank you kindly for your reply. Could you possibly elaborate > on > > > your > > > > statement above? I would like to know your exact line of > > reasoning. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Mariusz > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.