Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 From Padamalai P.24 1, Padam (Bhagavan or The Guru's feet) tells and reveals: 'Instead of knowing with certainty by enquiry that I myself am present as your " I " , why do you dispair?' Comment. The " I " here referred to is the Real I or Self, not the false I which claims the sense of doership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Hello Dear Alan Why call it "I" or "Self"? to avoid all confusion, it is better to be called "HE". HE who is always ALONE, despite the apparent changes and diversity in phenomena. Phenomena not things or objects. "HE" who makes everything possible. mourad , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote:>> From Padamalai P.24> > 1, Padam (Bhagavan or The Guru's feet) tells and reveals: 'Instead of knowing with certainty by enquiry that I myself am present as your "I", why do you dispair?'> > Comment. The "I" here referred to is the Real I or Self, not the false I which claims the sense of doership.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Dear Mourad, Again you may be right, but this is the term the translators use. Bhagavan checked all transcripts of his teaching in his life time. He had a very good working knowledge of English as he was educated in an American Mission School. I think 'I' is more personal as it signifies that it is also in our hearts, while 'he' could be interpreted as a second person out there. The word Self is in general usage thanks to nineteenth century translators who perceived that the Upanishads were talikng about the inner Self as did Shakespeare, 'this above all to thine own Self be true' and Socrates injunction 'to Know Thy Self'. All best wishes and regards, Alan --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mourad <mourad_shamel wrote: mourad <mourad_shamel Re: Bhagavan's Promises and Declarations 1 Wednesday, 15 October, 2008, 9:07 AM Hello Dear Alan Why call it " I " or " Self " ? to avoid all confusion, it is better to be called " HE " . HE who is always ALONE, despite the apparent changes and diversity in phenomena. Phenomena not things or objects. " HE " who makes everything possible. mourad , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > From Padamalai P.24 > > 1, Padam (Bhagavan or The Guru's feet) tells and reveals: 'Instead of knowing with certainty by enquiry that I myself am present as your " I " , why do you dispair?' > > Comment. The " I " here referred to is the Real I or Self, not the false I which claims the sense of doership. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Hello Dear Alan Thank you for your prompt answer. The question is always about the use of the word "I" and Self", are these words helpful to the aspirant or confusing? Even the "I" is in the "heart", both words - "I" and "heart" have a special personal meaning for everyone. Therefore, I will quote Sri Ramana again, in an attempt to clarify the matter and to put the subject to rest. The following is from the talk given by Sri V. S. Ramanan, President of Sri Ramanasramam, in New York City at the September 8th, 2002 "Advent at Arunachala" program. When a devotee questioned about unconditional surrender, Bhagavan replied: "If one surrenders completely, there will be no one left to ask questions or to be considered. Either the thoughts are eliminated by holding on to the root thought "I", or one surrenders unconditionally to the Higher Power. These are the only two ways to Realization." Therefore, all thoughts have to be eliminated and we have to remember that the root thought "I" is only a thought, that also has to be eliminated. mourad , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote:>> Dear Mourad,> > Again you may be right, but this is the term the translators use. Bhagavan checked all transcripts of his teaching in his life time. He had a very good working knowledge of English as he was educated in an American Mission School. I think 'I' is more personal as it signifies that it is also in our hearts, while 'he' could be interpreted as a second person out there. The word Self is in general usage thanks to nineteenth century translators who perceived that the Upanishads were talikng about the inner Self as did Shakespeare, 'this above all to thine own Self be true' and Socrates injunction 'to Know Thy Self'.> > All best wishes and regards,> > Alan > > --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mourad mourad_shamel wrote:> > mourad mourad_shamel Re: Bhagavan's Promises and Declarations 1> > Wednesday, 15 October, 2008, 9:07 AM> > > > > > > > Hello Dear Alan> Why call it "I" or "Self"? to avoid all confusion, it is better to be called "HE". > HE who is always ALONE, despite the apparent changes and diversity in phenomena. Phenomena not things or objects.> "HE" who makes everything possible.> mourad> > , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:> >> > From Padamalai P.24> > > > 1, Padam (Bhagavan or The Guru's feet) tells and reveals: 'Instead of knowing with certainty by enquiry that I myself am present as your "I", why do you dispair?'> > > > Comment. The "I" here referred to is the Real I or Self, not the false I which claims the sense of doership.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Dear Mourad, I feel you have answered the question yourself by the fact that in the quote you give below, you allow the use of the term 'root thought I' . All this discussion points out the perils of language and subjective interpretation. Perhaps silence is best- and then one may just feel the 'I-I-I' pulsating in the heart. Sat Chit Ananda. As Shakespeare said 'a rose by any other name would smell as sweet'. We agree that ultimately all thoughts have to be eliminated, along with the root thought I. Until then we have to use language to the best of our capacity- as did Bhagavan in answering the questions of his Devotees. All best wishes and regards, Alan Hello Dear Alan Thank you for your prompt answer. The question is always about the use of the word "I" and Self", are these words helpful to the aspirant or confusing? Even the "I" is in the "heart", both words - "I" and "heart" have a special personal meaning for everyone. Therefore, I will quote Sri Ramana again, in an attempt to clarify the matter and to put the subject to rest. The following is from the talk given by Sri V. S. Ramanan, President of Sri Ramanasramam, in New York City at the September 8th, 2002 "Advent at Arunachala" program. When a devotee questioned about unconditional surrender, Bhagavan replied: "If one surrenders completely, there will be no one left to ask questions or to be considered. Either the thoughts are eliminated by holding on to the root thought "I", or one surrenders unconditionally to the Higher Power. These are the only two ways to Realization. " Therefore, all thoughts have to be eliminated and we have to remember that the root thought "I" is only a thought, that also has to be eliminated. mourad , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Mourad,> > Again you may be right, but this is the term the translators use. Bhagavan checked all transcripts of his teaching in his life time. He had a very good working knowledge of English as he was educated in an American Mission School. I think 'I' is more personal as it signifies that it is also in our hearts, while 'he' could be interpreted as a second person out there. The word Self is in general usage thanks to nineteenth century translators who perceived that the Upanishads were talikng about the inner Self as did Shakespeare, 'this above all to thine own Self be true' and Socrates injunction 'to Know Thy Self'.> > All best wishes and regards,> > Alan > > --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mourad mourad_shamel@ ... wrote:> > mourad mourad_shamel@ ...> Re: Bhagavan's Promises and Declarations 1> > Wednesday, 15 October, 2008, 9:07 AM> > > > > > > > Hello Dear Alan> Why call it "I" or "Self"? to avoid all confusion, it is better to be called "HE". > HE who is always ALONE, despite the apparent changes and diversity in phenomena. Phenomena not things or objects.> "HE" who makes everything possible.> mourad> > , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:> >> > From Padamalai P.24> > > > 1, Padam (Bhagavan or The Guru's feet) tells and reveals: 'Instead of knowing with certainty by enquiry that I myself am present as your "I", why do you dispair?'> > > > Comment. The "I" here referred to is the Real I or Self, not the false I which claims the sense of doership.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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