Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Hello Soul I was following your conversation with Michael. What you said is totally true, the mind stops following the old patterns of thinking that it was used to follow before, whenever facing the objective world. You do not reurn to the Self, you remain immersed in the Self; whether you are facing the objective world or not. In otherwords, any contact with objective world does not re-create you as an ego with its own world. mourad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Namaste Mourad, On using the word " remain " or " return " ..... I think we can pick on words or not.... One could pick apart the words of Sri Ramana, or any sage or not. I thought, from memory, Sri Ramana had used the word " return " ..so looked and found, from 'Conscious Immortality' p.66...to a devoteee, " We all have to return to our source " ... Ramana also uses the word " remain " , from the same book p.168, to a devotee, " You are now advised to give up all these false ideas, and to trace your source and remain as the Self. In that state there are no differences and no questions will arise " . I have also have read and heard .. " point your attention towards " , " turn your attention towards " , and " focus on the Self " .... It is understood here that our true nature, Self, does not come or go, our true nature is always here, always was...so in this sense there is no 'return'as such, but there's no problem here with this word ,as it is understood what it is pointing to. Return the attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with this,rather than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who we are. Blessings, Soul , " mourad " <mourad_shamel wrote: > > > Hello Soul > > I was following your conversation with Michael. > > What you said is totally true, the mind stops following the old > patterns of thinking that it was used to follow before, whenever > facing the objective world. You do not reurn to the Self, you remain > immersed in the Self; whether you are facing the objective world or not. > > In otherwords, any contact with objective world does not re-create you > as an ego with its own world. > > mourad > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Hello Soul, " Return the attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with this,rather than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who we are. " It appears that the suggestion (returning the attention to the Self) is made to the 'mind'. At the same time, it is also asked not to identify with the 'mind'. Can the mind avoid identifying with itself? Looks like the only way is to enquire who the 'i' is and arriving at a check mate. Would you agree? sundar , " souleternalbeing " <souleternalbeing wrote: > > Namaste Mourad, > > On using the word " remain " or " return " ..... > > I think we can pick on words or not.... One could pick apart the > words of Sri Ramana, or any sage or not. > > I thought, from memory, Sri Ramana had used the word " return " ..so > looked and found, from 'Conscious Immortality' p.66...to a > devoteee, " We all have to return to our source " ... > > > Ramana also uses the word " remain " , from the same book p.168, to a > devotee, " You are now advised to give up all these false ideas, and > to trace your source and remain as the Self. In that state there are > no differences and no questions will arise " . > > I have also have read and heard .. " point your attention > towards " , " turn your attention towards " , and " focus on the Self " .... > > > It is understood here that our true nature, Self, does not come or > go, our true nature is always here, always was...so in this sense > there is no 'return'as such, but there's no problem here with this > word ,as it is understood what it is pointing to. Return the > attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with this,rather > than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who we are. > > > Blessings, > > Soul , " mourad " <mourad_shamel@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hello Soul > > > > I was following your conversation with Michael. > > > > What you said is totally true, the mind stops following the old > > patterns of thinking that it was used to follow before, whenever > > facing the objective world. You do not reurn to the Self, you remain > > immersed in the Self; whether you are facing the objective world or > not. > > > > In otherwords, any contact with objective world does not re-create > you > > as an ego with its own world. > > > > mourad > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 vanakkam sundar-ji, when there is a thought, the mind exists.... no thought, no mind... Shambo Arunachaleshwara anbudan TAT TVAM ASI ...--- On Thu, 11/27/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: Sundararajan <sundar22ca Re: To Soul Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 10:01 AM Hello Soul,"Return the attention to the Self, our true nature and identify withthis,rather than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as whowe are."It appears that the suggestion (returning the attention to the Self) is made to the 'mind'. At the same time, it is also asked not toidentify with the 'mind'. Can the mind avoid identifying with itself?Looks like the only way is to enquire who the 'i' is and arriving at acheck mate.Would you agree?sundar, "souleternalbeing"<souleternalbeing@ ...> wrote:>> Namaste Mourad,> > On using the word "remain" or "return" .....> > I think we can pick on words or not.... One could pick apart the > words of Sri Ramana, or any sage or not.> > I thought, from memory, Sri Ramana had used the word "return"..so > looked and found, from 'Conscious Immortality' p.66...to a > devoteee, "We all have to return to our source"...> > > Ramana also uses the word "remain", from the same book p.168, to a > devotee, "You are now advised to give up all these false ideas, and > to trace your source and remain as the Self. In that state there are > no differences and no questions will arise".> > I have also have read and heard .."point your attention > towards", "turn your attention towards", and "focus on the Self"....> > > It is understood here that our true nature, Self, does not come or > go, our true nature is always here, always was...so in this sense > there is no 'return'as such, but there's no problem here with this > word ,as it is understood what it is pointing to. Return the > attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with this,rather > than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who we are.> > > Blessings,> > Soul> > > > > > > , "mourad" <mourad_shamel@ > > wrote:> >> > > > Hello Soul> > > > I was following your conversation with Michael.> > > > What you said is totally true, the mind stops following the old> > patterns of thinking that it was used to follow before, whenever> > facing the objective world. You do not reurn to the Self, you remain> > immersed in the Self; whether you are facing the objective world or > not.> > > > In otherwords, any contact with objective world does not re-create > you> > as an ego with its own world.> > > > mourad> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Who is this separate being that returns to or remains in the Self? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Vanakkam Anbudan (or more correctly Vanakkam Anbu. Since anbudan would mean WITH anbu), I agree with 'no thought -> no mind'. But, how does this relate to 'returning attention to the Self'? Does 'returning attention to the Self' mean having a 'no thought' state? sundar , mango tree <oldmangotree wrote: > > vanakkam sundar-ji, > > when there is a thought, the mind exists.... > > no thought, no mind... > > Shambo Arunachaleshwara > > anbudan > > > TAT TVAM ASI ... > > --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca wrote: > > Sundararajan <sundar22ca > Re: To Soul > > Thursday, November 27, 2008, 10:01 AM Hello Soul, > " Return the attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with > this,rather than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who > we are. " > > It appears that the suggestion (returning the attention to the Self) > is made to the 'mind'. At the same time, it is also asked not to > identify with the 'mind'. Can the mind avoid identifying with itself? > > Looks like the only way is to enquire who the 'i' is and arriving at a > check mate. > > Would you agree? > sundar > > , " souleternalbeing " > <souleternalbeing@ ...> wrote: > > > > Namaste Mourad, > > > > On using the word " remain " or " return " ..... > > > > I think we can pick on words or not.... One could pick apart the > > words of Sri Ramana, or any sage or not. > > > > I thought, from memory, Sri Ramana had used the word " return " ..so > > looked and found, from 'Conscious Immortality' p.66...to a > > devoteee, " We all have to return to our source " ... > > > > > > Ramana also uses the word " remain " , from the same book p.168, to a > > devotee, " You are now advised to give up all these false ideas, and > > to trace your source and remain as the Self. In that state there are > > no differences and no questions will arise " . > > > > I have also have read and heard .. " point your attention > > towards " , " turn your attention towards " , and " focus on the Self " .... > > > > > > It is understood here that our true nature, Self, does not come or > > go, our true nature is always here, always was...so in this sense > > there is no 'return'as such, but there's no problem here with this > > word ,as it is understood what it is pointing to. Return the > > attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with this,rather > > than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who we are. > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > Soul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " mourad " <mourad_shamel@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Soul > > > > > > I was following your conversation with Michael. > > > > > > What you said is totally true, the mind stops following the old > > > patterns of thinking that it was used to follow before, whenever > > > facing the objective world. You do not reurn to the Self, you remain > > > immersed in the Self; whether you are facing the objective world or > > not. > > > > > > In otherwords, any contact with objective world does not re-create > > you > > > as an ego with its own world. > > > > > > mourad > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 , " Richard " <richarkar wrote: > > Who is this separate being that returns to or remains in the Self? Only the mind, which believes itself separate. In a sense, the mind returns to the Reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Dear Moderators, Re Message #47225 I've received this message from Soul, see below, nearly 20 times since it was posted. It's only on the web page once. Is there something wrong with the List Server? Any one else with the same problem? I've checked my own mail server and the problem is not there - the message is deleted from my mail server following each time it is downloaded to my PC? Best wishes, Peter On Behalf Of souleternalbeing 27 November 2008 00:29 Re: To Soul Namaste Mourad, On using the word " remain " or " return " ..... I think we can pick on words or not.... One could pick apart the words of Sri Ramana, or any sage or not. I thought, from memory, Sri Ramana had used the word " return " ..so looked and found, from 'Conscious Immortality' p.66...to a devoteee, " We all have to return to our source " ... Ramana also uses the word " remain " , from the same book p.168, to a devotee, " You are now advised to give up all these false ideas, and to trace your source and remain as the Self. In that state there are no differences and no questions will arise " . I have also have read and heard .. " point your attention towards " , " turn your attention towards " , and " focus on the Self " .... It is understood here that our true nature, Self, does not come or go, our true nature is always here, always was...so in this sense there is no 'return'as such, but there's no problem here with this word ,as it is understood what it is pointing to. Return the attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with this,rather than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who we are. Blessings, Soul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Hi Sundar, Re your question: 'Does 'returning attention to the Self' mean having a 'no thought' state?' First I'd like to point out that in an earlier message (Message #47225) Soul wrote to Mourad about the use of the words 'return' and 'remain' and quoted Ramana from 'Conscious Immortality' where he used these words while speaking to particular devotees. In this light 'returning attention to the self' is a direction Ramana gave to particular devotees at a certain time - at that time these words were appropriate and in a similar situation these words may or may not be appropriate. I feel that the fact that Ramana spoke these words gives them an energy that comes from the way of being that he represented in such a way that the 'you' who is being directed to 'return attention to the Self' falls away. In the absence of the 'you' just mentioned there is Presence as your true nature. ~ ~ ~ Know Thyself. This is the direction that every sage in some form or another has given. A response to this might be, 'Who is this 'Thy' that is being directed to 'Know Thyself'? Another response is, 'To Know Thyself is to be Aware'. And still another response is to actually 'live' the direction by asking 'Who am I?' such that there is the realization that this question cannot be answered intellectually and that there is a 'living answer' that is not of the measure of the mind... A way that that living answer may be expressed is: 'I am formless Awareness functioning in form.' In this light the answer to your question, 'Does 'returning attention to the Self' mean having a 'no thought' state?' is that what these words are pointing to is not a 'state', rather they point to your true nature where thinking as functioning can arise yet this 'form' of thinking is the action of your true nature called 'insight'. Love, James , " Sundararajan " <sundar22ca wrote: > > Vanakkam Anbudan (or more correctly Vanakkam Anbu. Since anbudan would > mean WITH anbu), > > I agree with 'no thought -> no mind'. > But, how does this relate to 'returning attention to the Self'? > > Does 'returning attention to the Self' mean having a 'no thought' state? > sundar > > , mango tree <oldmangotree@> > wrote: > > > > vanakkam sundar-ji, > > > > when there is a thought, the mind exists.... > > > > no thought, no mind... > > > > Shambo Arunachaleshwara > > > > anbudan > > > > > > TAT TVAM ASI ... > > > > --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Sundararajan <sundar22ca@> wrote: > > > > Sundararajan <sundar22ca@> > > Re: To Soul > > > > Thursday, November 27, 2008, 10:01 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Soul, > > " Return the attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with > > this,rather than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who > > we are. " > > > > It appears that the suggestion (returning the attention to the Self) > > is made to the 'mind'. At the same time, it is also asked not to > > identify with the 'mind'. Can the mind avoid identifying with itself? > > > > Looks like the only way is to enquire who the 'i' is and arriving at a > > check mate. > > > > Would you agree? > > sundar > > > > , " souleternalbeing " > > <souleternalbeing@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Mourad, > > > > > > On using the word " remain " or " return " ..... > > > > > > I think we can pick on words or not.... One could pick apart the > > > words of Sri Ramana, or any sage or not. > > > > > > I thought, from memory, Sri Ramana had used the word " return " ..so > > > looked and found, from 'Conscious Immortality' p.66...to a > > > devoteee, " We all have to return to our source " ... > > > > > > > > > Ramana also uses the word " remain " , from the same book p.168, to a > > > devotee, " You are now advised to give up all these false ideas, and > > > to trace your source and remain as the Self. In that state there are > > > no differences and no questions will arise " . > > > > > > I have also have read and heard .. " point your attention > > > towards " , " turn your attention towards " , and " focus on the Self " .... > > > > > > > > > It is understood here that our true nature, Self, does not come or > > > go, our true nature is always here, always was...so in this sense > > > there is no 'return'as such, but there's no problem here with this > > > word ,as it is understood what it is pointing to. Return the > > > attention to the Self, our true nature and identify with this,rather > > > than identifying with thought,emotions, body, mind as who we are. > > > > > > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > Soul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " mourad " <mourad_shamel@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Soul > > > > > > > > I was following your conversation with Michael. > > > > > > > > What you said is totally true, the mind stops following the old > > > > patterns of thinking that it was used to follow before, whenever > > > > facing the objective world. You do not reurn to the Self, you remain > > > > immersed in the Self; whether you are facing the objective world or > > > not. > > > > > > > > In otherwords, any contact with objective world does not re-create > > > you > > > > as an ego with its own world. > > > > > > > > mourad > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Dear Richard, I am off on Saturday, leaving for England. It was great meeting you and Carol at Arunachala and Ganesan's. I met Jai to-day and he showed me your new abode. It looks great! All love and every best wish In His Grace,, Alan--- On Thu, 27/11/08, Richard <richarkar wrote: Richard <richarkar Re: To Soul Date: Thursday, 27 November, 2008, 2:29 AM Who is this separate being that returns to or remains in the Self? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Very simly put... http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2nlxaIW1I Love and blessings to all, Soul -- In , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > , " Richard " <richarkar@> wrote: > > > > Who is this separate being that returns to or remains in the Self? > > Only the mind, which believes itself separate. In a sense, the mind > returns to the Reality. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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