Guest guest Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Dear Friend, I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the contradiction? Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree that 24 years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my objective I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-| arto , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff wrote: > > Arto - > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus > in your correspondence with Alan. > > If you have patience for a fairly > long read, the following is from > a magazine article I wrote a couple > of years ago .The title was: > > " How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple " > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I first encountered the > word, " Nirvana " . It was described as utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind. I felt my > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family environment and the appeal of a place > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate fascination for me. > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the local churches. I went > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and finally to baptism. > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace of mind. > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call, the last train to > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find " Nirvana " , but also to escape the guilt and > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad judgements of my teen > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details. > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra was " Let me die " . As a last > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to listen to Maharaji, a " guru " – > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a Hindu ashram, a woman > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was teaching at morning > satsang (a discourse " in the company of Truth " ). She often read from a copy of the > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels in the teachings of > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular morning in the summer of > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so long ago. She spoke of, > " utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind " as the promise of the true guru. I rolled > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears streaming down my cheeks. > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in Buddhism, what is called > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, in effect, " If I am allowed to > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind, I will spend the > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who traveled the same painful > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth. " I didn't know that what was to come > could not be put in words. > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It was July 21, 1975. We > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of techniques were shown, I > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be assuaged by phenomenon. I began > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty promise. I gave up, but > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I chose to just go along > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next day. And that old familiar > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, once again: Let me die. > Let me die. Let me die. > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I did die, but not in the > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever, it was as if some unseen > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this influx of a new way (words fail > here and will be imprecise) of " knowing " , I felt myself as if transported to a mountain. I > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. As I looked down the > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past easily and comfortably > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure. > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue-white light. He didn't say > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look further down the path. > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as soon as I saw it, I was > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the impossible possible. He had > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical reality. He had collapsed all > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and thousands of miles from > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and irrelevant. I had met my satguru. > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation, (following 24 years of > searching that became more and more urgent until it all collapsed in surrender) was > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and suffering was > accepted and honored. I was " Christed " . Jesus was recognized for who he is - not the > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches) has presented for years. > > Following my " resurrection " from the blue-white light and the presence, residence and > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and expansive heart and mind. > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus being, the announcement of > the good news that this " Christing " , this awakening and enlightenment, is the possible > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new script will be written). > > My " return " into this time, in this realm, was granted with a commission to be a loving, > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve others, to respond to > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a truly inspired work. I > was " told " that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a work that Jesus died to > establish in those who would come to know him. > > " The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, you shall do, " must have > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to understand these words to mean > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the filling of the Holy Spirit, those > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he promised to send; a > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the work while alive. " I > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me. " > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly intercessor, for those who come > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter and finally sit at the right > hand of God until all sentient beings are " Christed " as well. Yet, he exists in bliss at all > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender mercies are new every > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at about 9:30 in the morning, > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Dear Arto, This experience is a report of my personal journey, and the model and images are a product of my impressions - grounded in the model of my background in a Christian culture. The encounter was reported as it happened to me, and the impressions it left on my consciousness. No contradiction is good. Someone from another culture might view the light being (Ishta Devata) as an icon particular to their culture and spiritual tradition. Do not be discouraged by the time of 24 years. I began at a very young age. My affinity with the teachings of Ramana come from the parallels in our volitional choices to experience the feeling of death - which led to the awakening. Jeff www.livingatwow.com , " arto " <iamarto wrote: > > Dear Friend, > > I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you > encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all > with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the > contradiction? > > Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree that 24 > years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my objective > I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the > Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-| > > arto > > > , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff@> wrote: > > > > Arto - > > > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus > > in your correspondence with Alan. > > > > If you have patience for a fairly > > long read, the following is from > > a magazine article I wrote a couple > > of years ago .The title was: > > > > " How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple " > > > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I > first encountered the > > word, " Nirvana " . It was described as utter tranquility and perfect > peace of mind. I felt my > > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family environment > and the appeal of a place > > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate > fascination for me. > > > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the > local churches. I went > > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and > finally to baptism. > > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace of mind. > > > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call, > the last train to > > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find " Nirvana " , but also to > escape the guilt and > > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad > judgements of my teen > > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details. > > > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra > was " Let me die " . As a last > > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to listen > to Maharaji, a " guru " – > > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a Hindu > ashram, a woman > > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was > teaching at morning > > satsang (a discourse " in the company of Truth " ). She often read from > a copy of the > > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels > in the teachings of > > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular > morning in the summer of > > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so > long ago. She spoke of, > > " utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind " as the promise of the > true guru. I rolled > > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears > streaming down my cheeks. > > > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in > Buddhism, what is called > > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, in > effect, " If I am allowed to > > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace of > mind, I will spend the > > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who > traveled the same painful > > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth. " I didn't know > that what was to come > > could not be put in words. > > > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It > was July 21, 1975. We > > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of > techniques were shown, I > > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be assuaged by > phenomenon. I began > > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty > promise. I gave up, but > > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I > chose to just go along > > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next day. > And that old familiar > > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, once > again: Let me die. > > Let me die. Let me die. > > > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I did > die, but not in the > > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever, > it was as if some unseen > > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this influx > of a new way (words fail > > here and will be imprecise) of " knowing " , I felt myself as if > transported to a mountain. I > > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. As I > looked down the > > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past > easily and comfortably > > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure. > > > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue-white > light. He didn't say > > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look > further down the path. > > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as > soon as I saw it, I was > > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the impossible > possible. He had > > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical > reality. He had collapsed all > > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and > thousands of miles from > > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and irrelevant. > I had met my satguru. > > > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation, > (following 24 years of > > searching that became more and more urgent until it all collapsed in > surrender) was > > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and > suffering was > > accepted and honored. I was " Christed " . Jesus was recognized for who > he is - not the > > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches) > has presented for years. > > > > Following my " resurrection " from the blue-white light and the > presence, residence and > > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and > expansive heart and mind. > > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus > being, the announcement of > > the good news that this " Christing " , this awakening and > enlightenment, is the possible > > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new > script will be written). > > > > My " return " into this time, in this realm, was granted with a > commission to be a loving, > > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve > others, to respond to > > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a > truly inspired work. I > > was " told " that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a > work that Jesus died to > > establish in those who would come to know him. > > > > " The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, you > shall do, " must have > > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to > understand these words to mean > > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the filling of > the Holy Spirit, those > > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he > promised to send; a > > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the > work while alive. " I > > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me. " > > > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly > intercessor, for those who come > > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter > and finally sit at the right > > hand of God until all sentient beings are " Christed " as well. Yet, > he exists in bliss at all > > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender > mercies are new every > > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at about > 9:30 in the morning, > > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Jeff, thank you for posting that article. I really enjoyed reading it. It is a wonderful story of your spiritual journey. JillOn Jan 2, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Jeff Belyea wrote:Dear Arto,This experience is a report of my personal journey,and the model and images are a product of myimpressions - grounded in the model of mybackground in a Christian culture. The encounter was reported as it happened to me, and the impressions it left on my consciousness. No contradiction is good.Someone from another culture might view thelight being (Ishta Devata) as an icon particularto their culture and spiritual tradition.Do not be discouraged by the time of 24 years.I began at a very young age. My affinity withthe teachings of Ramana come from theparallels in our volitional choices to experiencethe feeling of death - which led to theawakening.Jeffwww.livingatwow.com"arto" <iamarto wrote:>> Dear Friend,> > I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you> encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all> with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the> contradiction? > > Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree that 24> years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my objective> I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the> Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-|> > arto> > > "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@> wrote:> >> > Arto -> > > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus> > in your correspondence with Alan.> > > > If you have patience for a fairly > > long read, the following is from> > a magazine article I wrote a couple> > of years ago .The title was:> > > > "How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple" > > > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I> first encountered the > > word, "Nirvana". It was described as utter tranquility and perfect> peace of mind. I felt my > > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family environment> and the appeal of a place > > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate> fascination for me.> > > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the> local churches. I went > > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and> finally to baptism. > > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace of mind.> > > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call,> the last train to > > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find "Nirvana", but also to> escape the guilt and > > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad> judgements of my teen > > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details.> > > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra> was "Let me die". As a last > > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to listen> to Maharaji, a "guru"– > > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a Hindu> ashram, a woman > > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was> teaching at morning > > satsang (a discourse "in the company of Truth"). She often read from> a copy of the > > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels> in the teachings of > > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular> morning in the summer of > > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so> long ago. She spoke of, > > "utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind" as the promise of the> true guru. I rolled > > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears> streaming down my cheeks.> > > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in> Buddhism, what is called > > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, in> effect, "If I am allowed to > > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace of> mind, I will spend the > > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who> traveled the same painful > > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth." I didn't know> that what was to come > > could not be put in words.> > > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It> was July 21, 1975. We > > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of> techniques were shown, I > > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be assuaged by> phenomenon. I began > > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty> promise. I gave up, but > > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I> chose to just go along > > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next day.> And that old familiar > > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, once> again: Let me die. > > Let me die. Let me die.> > > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I did> die, but not in the > > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever,> it was as if some unseen > > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this influx> of a new way (words fail > > here and will be imprecise) of "knowing", I felt myself as if> transported to a mountain. I > > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. As I> looked down the > > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past> easily and comfortably > > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure.> > > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue-white> light. He didn't say > > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look> further down the path. > > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as> soon as I saw it, I was > > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the impossible> possible. He had > > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical> reality. He had collapsed all > > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and> thousands of miles from > > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and irrelevant.> I had met my satguru.> > > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation,> (following 24 years of > > searching that became more and more urgent until it all collapsed in> surrender) was > > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and> suffering was > > accepted and honored. I was "Christed". Jesus was recognized for who> he is - not the > > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches)> has presented for years.> > > > Following my "resurrection" from the blue-white light and the> presence, residence and > > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and> expansive heart and mind. > > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus> being, the announcement of > > the good news that this "Christing", this awakening and> enlightenment, is the possible > > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new> script will be written).> > > > My "return" into this time, in this realm, was granted with a> commission to be a loving, > > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve> others, to respond to > > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a> truly inspired work. I > > was "told" that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a> work that Jesus died to > > establish in those who would come to know him.> > > > "The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, you> shall do," must have > > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to> understand these words to mean > > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the filling of> the Holy Spirit, those > > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he> promised to send; a > > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the> work while alive. "I > > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me." > > > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly> intercessor, for those who come > > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter> and finally sit at the right > > hand of God until all sentient beings are "Christed" as well. Yet,> he exists in bliss at all > > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender> mercies are new every > > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at about> 9:30 in the morning, > > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Jeff, thank you for posting that article. I really enjoyed reading it. It is a wonderful story of your spiritual journey. JillOn Jan 2, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Jeff Belyea wrote:Dear Arto,This experience is a report of my personal journey,and the model and images are a product of myimpressions - grounded in the model of mybackground in a Christian culture. The encounter was reported as it happened to me, and the impressions it left on my consciousness. No contradiction is good.Someone from another culture might view thelight being (Ishta Devata) as an icon particularto their culture and spiritual tradition.Do not be discouraged by the time of 24 years.I began at a very young age. My affinity withthe teachings of Ramana come from theparallels in our volitional choices to experiencethe feeling of death - which led to theawakening.Jeffwww.livingatwow.com"arto" <iamarto wrote:>> Dear Friend,> > I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you> encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all> with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the> contradiction? > > Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree that 24> years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my objective> I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the> Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-|> > arto> > > "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@> wrote:> >> > Arto -> > > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus> > in your correspondence with Alan.> > > > If you have patience for a fairly > > long read, the following is from> > a magazine article I wrote a couple> > of years ago .The title was:> > > > "How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple" > > > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I> first encountered the > > word, "Nirvana". It was described as utter tranquility and perfect> peace of mind. I felt my > > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family environment> and the appeal of a place > > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate> fascination for me.> > > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the> local churches. I went > > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and> finally to baptism. > > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace of mind.> > > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call,> the last train to > > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find "Nirvana", but also to> escape the guilt and > > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad> judgements of my teen > > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details.> > > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra> was "Let me die". As a last > > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to listen> to Maharaji, a "guru"– > > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a Hindu> ashram, a woman > > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was> teaching at morning > > satsang (a discourse "in the company of Truth"). She often read from> a copy of the > > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels> in the teachings of > > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular> morning in the summer of > > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so> long ago. She spoke of, > > "utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind" as the promise of the> true guru. I rolled > > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears> streaming down my cheeks.> > > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in> Buddhism, what is called > > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, in> effect, "If I am allowed to > > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace of> mind, I will spend the > > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who> traveled the same painful > > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth." I didn't know> that what was to come > > could not be put in words.> > > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It> was July 21, 1975. We > > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of> techniques were shown, I > > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be assuaged by> phenomenon. I began > > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty> promise. I gave up, but > > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I> chose to just go along > > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next day.> And that old familiar > > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, once> again: Let me die. > > Let me die. Let me die.> > > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I did> die, but not in the > > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever,> it was as if some unseen > > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this influx> of a new way (words fail > > here and will be imprecise) of "knowing", I felt myself as if> transported to a mountain. I > > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. As I> looked down the > > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past> easily and comfortably > > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure.> > > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue-white> light. He didn't say > > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look> further down the path. > > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as> soon as I saw it, I was > > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the impossible> possible. He had > > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical> reality. He had collapsed all > > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and> thousands of miles from > > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and irrelevant.> I had met my satguru.> > > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation,> (following 24 years of > > searching that became more and more urgent until it all collapsed in> surrender) was > > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and> suffering was > > accepted and honored. I was "Christed". Jesus was recognized for who> he is - not the > > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches)> has presented for years.> > > > Following my "resurrection" from the blue-white light and the> presence, residence and > > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and> expansive heart and mind. > > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus> being, the announcement of > > the good news that this "Christing", this awakening and> enlightenment, is the possible > > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new> script will be written).> > > > My "return" into this time, in this realm, was granted with a> commission to be a loving, > > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve> others, to respond to > > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a> truly inspired work. I > > was "told" that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a> work that Jesus died to > > establish in those who would come to know him.> > > > "The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, you> shall do," must have > > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to> understand these words to mean > > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the filling of> the Holy Spirit, those > > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he> promised to send; a > > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the> work while alive. "I > > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me." > > > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly> intercessor, for those who come > > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter> and finally sit at the right > > hand of God until all sentient beings are "Christed" as well. Yet,> he exists in bliss at all > > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender> mercies are new every > > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at about> 9:30 in the morning, > > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Dear Jeff, I agree with Jill. Thank you for sharing. All best wishes for an auspicious 2009, Alan--- On Fri, 2/1/09, Jill Eggers <eggersj wrote: Jill Eggers <eggersjRe: Re: For Arto - About an encounter with Jesus Date: Friday, 2 January, 2009, 10:57 PM Jeff, thank you for posting that article. I really enjoyed reading it. It is a wonderful story of your spiritual journey. Jill On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Jeff Belyea wrote: Dear Arto,This experience is a report of my personal journey,and the model and images are a product of myimpressions - grounded in the model of mybackground in a Christian culture. The encounter was reported as it happened to me, and the impressions it left on my consciousness. No contradiction is good.Someone from another culture might view thelight being (Ishta Devata) as an icon particularto their culture and spiritual tradition.Do not be discouraged by the time of 24 years.I began at a very young age. My affinity withthe teachings of Ramana come from theparallels in our volitional choices to experiencethe feeling of death - which led to theawakening.Jeffwww.livingatwow. com, "arto" <iamarto > wrote:>> Dear Friend,> > I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you> encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all> with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the> contradiction? > > Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree that 24> years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my objective> I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the> Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-|> > arto> > > , "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@> wrote:> >> > Arto -> > > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus> > in your correspondence with Alan.> > > > If you have patience for a fairly > > long read, the following is from> > a magazine article I wrote a couple> > of years ago .The title was:> > > > "How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple" > > > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I> first encountered the > > word, "Nirvana". It was described as utter tranquility and perfect> peace of mind. I felt my > > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family environment> and the appeal of a place > > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate> fascination for me.> > > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the> local churches. I went > > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and> finally to baptism. > > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace of mind.> > > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call,> the last train to > > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find "Nirvana", but also to> escape the guilt and > > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad> judgements of my teen > > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details.> > > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra> was "Let me die". As a last > > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to listen> to Maharaji, a "guru"– > > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a Hindu> ashram, a woman > > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was> teaching at morning > > satsang (a discourse "in the company of Truth"). She often read from> a copy of the > > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels> in the teachings of > > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular> morning in the summer of > > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so> long ago. She spoke of, > > "utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind" as the promise of the> true guru. I rolled > > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears> streaming down my cheeks.> > > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in> Buddhism, what is called > > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, in> effect, "If I am allowed to > > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace of> mind, I will spend the > > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who> traveled the same painful > > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth." I didn't know> that what was to come > > could not be put in words.> > > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It> was July 21, 1975. We > > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of> techniques were shown, I > > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be assuaged by> phenomenon. I began > > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty> promise. I gave up, but > > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I> chose to just go along > > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next day.> And that old familiar > > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, once> again: Let me die. > > Let me die. Let me die.> > > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I did> die, but not in the > > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever,> it was as if some unseen > > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this influx> of a new way (words fail > > here and will be imprecise) of "knowing", I felt myself as if> transported to a mountain. I > > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. As I> looked down the > > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past> easily and comfortably > > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure.> > > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue-white> light. He didn't say > > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look> further down the path. > > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as> soon as I saw it, I was > > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the impossible> possible. He had > > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical> reality. He had collapsed all > > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and> thousands of miles from > > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and irrelevant.> I had met my satguru.> > > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation,> (following 24 years of > > searching that became more and more urgent until it all collapsed in> surrender) was > > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and> suffering was > > accepted and honored. I was "Christed". Jesus was recognized for who> he is - not the > > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches)> has presented for years.> > > > Following my "resurrection" from the blue-white light and the> presence, residence and > > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and> expansive heart and mind. > > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus> being, the announcement of > > the good news that this "Christing", this awakening and> enlightenment, is the possible > > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new> script will be written).> > > > My "return" into this time, in this realm, was granted with a> commission to be a loving, > > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve> others, to respond to > > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a> truly inspired work. I > > was "told" that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a> work that Jesus died to > > establish in those who would come to know him.> > > > "The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, you> shall do," must have > > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to> understand these words to mean > > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the filling of> the Holy Spirit, those > > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he> promised to send; a > > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the> work while alive. "I > > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me." > > > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly> intercessor, for those who come > > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter> and finally sit at the right > > hand of God until all sentient beings are "Christed" as well. Yet,> he exists in bliss at all > > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender> mercies are new every > > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at about> 9:30 in the morning, > > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Dear Jeff, I thought you encountered another part of my conversation with Alan (much longer essay), so it's why I misunderstood you.. apologies. However I enjoyed your story and my background is also in Christianity, and I have one more thing to say.. yes cultures could make differences in experiences but for very special reasons (that I was discussing with Alan on email).. " No one comes before the Father except through Me " John 14:6-9 I'm free from religious bounds, but not from the teachings, not from the truth thanks Jeff, arto , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff wrote: > > Dear Arto, > > This experience is a report of my personal journey, > and the model and images are a product of my > impressions - grounded in the model of my > background in a Christian culture. > > The encounter was reported as it happened to me, > and the impressions it left on my consciousness. > No contradiction is good. > > Someone from another culture might view the > light being (Ishta Devata) as an icon particular > to their culture and spiritual tradition. > > Do not be discouraged by the time of 24 years. > I began at a very young age. My affinity with > the teachings of Ramana come from the > parallels in our volitional choices to experience > the feeling of death - which led to the > awakening. > > Jeff > www.livingatwow.com > > > , " arto " <iamarto@> wrote: > > > > Dear Friend, > > > > I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you > > encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all > > with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the > > contradiction? > > > > Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree that 24 > > years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my objective > > I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the > > Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-| > > > > arto > > > > > > , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff@> wrote: > > > > > > Arto - > > > > > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus > > > in your correspondence with Alan. > > > > > > If you have patience for a fairly > > > long read, the following is from > > > a magazine article I wrote a couple > > > of years ago .The title was: > > > > > > " How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple " > > > > > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I > > first encountered the > > > word, " Nirvana " . It was described as utter tranquility and perfect > > peace of mind. I felt my > > > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family environment > > and the appeal of a place > > > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate > > fascination for me. > > > > > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the > > local churches. I went > > > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and > > finally to baptism. > > > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace of mind. > > > > > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call, > > the last train to > > > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find " Nirvana " , but also to > > escape the guilt and > > > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad > > judgements of my teen > > > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details. > > > > > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra > > was " Let me die " . As a last > > > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to listen > > to Maharaji, a " guru " – > > > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a Hindu > > ashram, a woman > > > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was > > teaching at morning > > > satsang (a discourse " in the company of Truth " ). She often read from > > a copy of the > > > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels > > in the teachings of > > > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular > > morning in the summer of > > > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so > > long ago. She spoke of, > > > " utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind " as the promise of the > > true guru. I rolled > > > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears > > streaming down my cheeks. > > > > > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in > > Buddhism, what is called > > > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, in > > effect, " If I am allowed to > > > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace of > > mind, I will spend the > > > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who > > traveled the same painful > > > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth. " I didn't know > > that what was to come > > > could not be put in words. > > > > > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It > > was July 21, 1975. We > > > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of > > techniques were shown, I > > > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be assuaged by > > phenomenon. I began > > > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty > > promise. I gave up, but > > > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I > > chose to just go along > > > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next day. > > And that old familiar > > > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, once > > again: Let me die. > > > Let me die. Let me die. > > > > > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I did > > die, but not in the > > > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever, > > it was as if some unseen > > > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this influx > > of a new way (words fail > > > here and will be imprecise) of " knowing " , I felt myself as if > > transported to a mountain. I > > > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. As I > > looked down the > > > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past > > easily and comfortably > > > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure. > > > > > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue-white > > light. He didn't say > > > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look > > further down the path. > > > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as > > soon as I saw it, I was > > > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the impossible > > possible. He had > > > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical > > reality. He had collapsed all > > > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and > > thousands of miles from > > > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and irrelevant. > > I had met my satguru. > > > > > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation, > > (following 24 years of > > > searching that became more and more urgent until it all collapsed in > > surrender) was > > > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and > > suffering was > > > accepted and honored. I was " Christed " . Jesus was recognized for who > > he is - not the > > > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches) > > has presented for years. > > > > > > Following my " resurrection " from the blue-white light and the > > presence, residence and > > > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and > > expansive heart and mind. > > > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus > > being, the announcement of > > > the good news that this " Christing " , this awakening and > > enlightenment, is the possible > > > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new > > script will be written). > > > > > > My " return " into this time, in this realm, was granted with a > > commission to be a loving, > > > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve > > others, to respond to > > > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a > > truly inspired work. I > > > was " told " that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a > > work that Jesus died to > > > establish in those who would come to know him. > > > > > > " The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, you > > shall do, " must have > > > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to > > understand these words to mean > > > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the filling of > > the Holy Spirit, those > > > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he > > promised to send; a > > > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the > > work while alive. " I > > > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me. " > > > > > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly > > intercessor, for those who come > > > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter > > and finally sit at the right > > > hand of God until all sentient beings are " Christed " as well. Yet, > > he exists in bliss at all > > > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender > > mercies are new every > > > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at about > > 9:30 in the morning, > > > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 You're welcome, Jill. It was a magical time. Still as fresh as it day it dawned. Jeff , Jill Eggers <eggersj wrote: > > Jeff, thank you for posting that article. I really enjoyed reading > it. It is a wonderful story of your spiritual journey. > > Jill > On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Jeff Belyea wrote: > > > Dear Arto, > > > > This experience is a report of my personal journey, > > and the model and images are a product of my > > impressions - grounded in the model of my > > background in a Christian culture. > > > > The encounter was reported as it happened to me, > > and the impressions it left on my consciousness. > > No contradiction is good. > > > > Someone from another culture might view the > > light being (Ishta Devata) as an icon particular > > to their culture and spiritual tradition. > > > > Do not be discouraged by the time of 24 years. > > I began at a very young age. My affinity with > > the teachings of Ramana come from the > > parallels in our volitional choices to experience > > the feeling of death - which led to the > > awakening. > > > > Jeff > > www.livingatwow.com > > > > , " arto " <iamarto@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Friend, > > > > > > I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you > > > encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all > > > with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the > > > contradiction? > > > > > > Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree > > that 24 > > > years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my > > objective > > > I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the > > > Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-| > > > > > > arto > > > > > > > > > , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Arto - > > > > > > > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus > > > > in your correspondence with Alan. > > > > > > > > If you have patience for a fairly > > > > long read, the following is from > > > > a magazine article I wrote a couple > > > > of years ago .The title was: > > > > > > > > " How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple " > > > > > > > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I > > > first encountered the > > > > word, " Nirvana " . It was described as utter tranquility and perfect > > > peace of mind. I felt my > > > > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family > > environment > > > and the appeal of a place > > > > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate > > > fascination for me. > > > > > > > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the > > > local churches. I went > > > > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and > > > finally to baptism. > > > > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace > > of mind. > > > > > > > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call, > > > the last train to > > > > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find " Nirvana " , but also to > > > escape the guilt and > > > > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad > > > judgements of my teen > > > > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details. > > > > > > > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra > > > was " Let me die " . As a last > > > > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to > > listen > > > to Maharaji, a " guru " – > > > > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a > > Hindu > > > ashram, a woman > > > > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was > > > teaching at morning > > > > satsang (a discourse " in the company of Truth " ). She often read > > from > > > a copy of the > > > > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels > > > in the teachings of > > > > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular > > > morning in the summer of > > > > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so > > > long ago. She spoke of, > > > > " utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind " as the promise of > > the > > > true guru. I rolled > > > > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears > > > streaming down my cheeks. > > > > > > > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in > > > Buddhism, what is called > > > > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, > > in > > > effect, " If I am allowed to > > > > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace > > of > > > mind, I will spend the > > > > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who > > > traveled the same painful > > > > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth. " I didn't know > > > that what was to come > > > > could not be put in words. > > > > > > > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It > > > was July 21, 1975. We > > > > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of > > > techniques were shown, I > > > > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be > > assuaged by > > > phenomenon. I began > > > > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty > > > promise. I gave up, but > > > > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I > > > chose to just go along > > > > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next > > day. > > > And that old familiar > > > > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, > > once > > > again: Let me die. > > > > Let me die. Let me die. > > > > > > > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I > > did > > > die, but not in the > > > > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever, > > > it was as if some unseen > > > > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this > > influx > > > of a new way (words fail > > > > here and will be imprecise) of " knowing " , I felt myself as if > > > transported to a mountain. I > > > > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. > > As I > > > looked down the > > > > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past > > > easily and comfortably > > > > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure. > > > > > > > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue- > > white > > > light. He didn't say > > > > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look > > > further down the path. > > > > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as > > > soon as I saw it, I was > > > > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the > > impossible > > > possible. He had > > > > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical > > > reality. He had collapsed all > > > > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and > > > thousands of miles from > > > > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and > > irrelevant. > > > I had met my satguru. > > > > > > > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation, > > > (following 24 years of > > > > searching that became more and more urgent until it all > > collapsed in > > > surrender) was > > > > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and > > > suffering was > > > > accepted and honored. I was " Christed " . Jesus was recognized for > > who > > > he is - not the > > > > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches) > > > has presented for years. > > > > > > > > Following my " resurrection " from the blue-white light and the > > > presence, residence and > > > > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and > > > expansive heart and mind. > > > > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus > > > being, the announcement of > > > > the good news that this " Christing " , this awakening and > > > enlightenment, is the possible > > > > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new > > > script will be written). > > > > > > > > My " return " into this time, in this realm, was granted with a > > > commission to be a loving, > > > > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve > > > others, to respond to > > > > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a > > > truly inspired work. I > > > > was " told " that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a > > > work that Jesus died to > > > > establish in those who would come to know him. > > > > > > > > " The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, > > you > > > shall do, " must have > > > > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to > > > understand these words to mean > > > > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the > > filling of > > > the Holy Spirit, those > > > > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he > > > promised to send; a > > > > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the > > > work while alive. " I > > > > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me. " > > > > > > > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly > > > intercessor, for those who come > > > > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter > > > and finally sit at the right > > > > hand of God until all sentient beings are " Christed " as well. Yet, > > > he exists in bliss at all > > > > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender > > > mercies are new every > > > > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at > > about > > > 9:30 in the morning, > > > > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Dear Arto, Thanks. I wasn't sure what you meant. I feel that a better translation of that quote would be, " No one comes before the father except through (becoming as) Me. " Jesus said that the student becomes as the master. He called himself the light of the world, and then called his disciples (and all who would eventually become empowered disciples) the light of the world. Christ Consciousness is what brings us into the Holy of Holies. Jesus never wanted to establish an exclusive club, and I feel that the translation of this particular passage has been a real stumbling block to inter-religious dialogue. The truth Jesus spoke of is the truth Ramana, Krishna, and all authentic teachers speak of - the truth of our capacity for enlightenment - coming into a re-discovery of our inherent indwelling Christ (Krishna) Consciousness. This is the truth that sets us free... free from fundamentalism that pits one religion against another. The Mystic Path is known to all religions and the reported experiences all precisely the same. I have a brief video intro on my web site: http://www.livingatwow.com Peace and blessings, Jeff , " arto " <iamarto wrote: > > Dear Jeff, > > I thought you encountered another part of my conversation with Alan > (much longer essay), so it's why I misunderstood you.. apologies. > > However I enjoyed your story and my background is also in > Christianity, and I have one more thing to say.. yes cultures could > make differences in experiences but for very special reasons (that I > was discussing with Alan on email).. > > " No one comes before the Father except through Me " John 14:6-9 > > I'm free from religious bounds, but not from the teachings, not from > the truth > > thanks Jeff, > arto > > > , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff@> wrote: > > > > Dear Arto, > > > > This experience is a report of my personal journey, > > and the model and images are a product of my > > impressions - grounded in the model of my > > background in a Christian culture. > > > > The encounter was reported as it happened to me, > > and the impressions it left on my consciousness. > > No contradiction is good. > > > > Someone from another culture might view the > > light being (Ishta Devata) as an icon particular > > to their culture and spiritual tradition. > > > > Do not be discouraged by the time of 24 years. > > I began at a very young age. My affinity with > > the teachings of Ramana come from the > > parallels in our volitional choices to experience > > the feeling of death - which led to the > > awakening. > > > > Jeff > > www.livingatwow.com > > > > > > , " arto " <iamarto@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Friend, > > > > > > I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you > > > encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all > > > with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the > > > contradiction? > > > > > > Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree that 24 > > > years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my objective > > > I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the > > > Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-| > > > > > > arto > > > > > > > > > , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Arto - > > > > > > > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus > > > > in your correspondence with Alan. > > > > > > > > If you have patience for a fairly > > > > long read, the following is from > > > > a magazine article I wrote a couple > > > > of years ago .The title was: > > > > > > > > " How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple " > > > > > > > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I > > > first encountered the > > > > word, " Nirvana " . It was described as utter tranquility and perfect > > > peace of mind. I felt my > > > > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family environment > > > and the appeal of a place > > > > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate > > > fascination for me. > > > > > > > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the > > > local churches. I went > > > > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and > > > finally to baptism. > > > > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace > of mind. > > > > > > > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call, > > > the last train to > > > > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find " Nirvana " , but also to > > > escape the guilt and > > > > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad > > > judgements of my teen > > > > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details. > > > > > > > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra > > > was " Let me die " . As a last > > > > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to listen > > > to Maharaji, a " guru " – > > > > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a Hindu > > > ashram, a woman > > > > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was > > > teaching at morning > > > > satsang (a discourse " in the company of Truth " ). She often read from > > > a copy of the > > > > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels > > > in the teachings of > > > > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular > > > morning in the summer of > > > > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so > > > long ago. She spoke of, > > > > " utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind " as the promise of the > > > true guru. I rolled > > > > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears > > > streaming down my cheeks. > > > > > > > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in > > > Buddhism, what is called > > > > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, in > > > effect, " If I am allowed to > > > > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace of > > > mind, I will spend the > > > > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who > > > traveled the same painful > > > > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth. " I didn't know > > > that what was to come > > > > could not be put in words. > > > > > > > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It > > > was July 21, 1975. We > > > > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of > > > techniques were shown, I > > > > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be assuaged by > > > phenomenon. I began > > > > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty > > > promise. I gave up, but > > > > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I > > > chose to just go along > > > > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next day. > > > And that old familiar > > > > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, once > > > again: Let me die. > > > > Let me die. Let me die. > > > > > > > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I did > > > die, but not in the > > > > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever, > > > it was as if some unseen > > > > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this influx > > > of a new way (words fail > > > > here and will be imprecise) of " knowing " , I felt myself as if > > > transported to a mountain. I > > > > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. As I > > > looked down the > > > > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past > > > easily and comfortably > > > > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure. > > > > > > > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue-white > > > light. He didn't say > > > > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look > > > further down the path. > > > > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as > > > soon as I saw it, I was > > > > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the impossible > > > possible. He had > > > > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical > > > reality. He had collapsed all > > > > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and > > > thousands of miles from > > > > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and irrelevant. > > > I had met my satguru. > > > > > > > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation, > > > (following 24 years of > > > > searching that became more and more urgent until it all collapsed in > > > surrender) was > > > > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and > > > suffering was > > > > accepted and honored. I was " Christed " . Jesus was recognized for who > > > he is - not the > > > > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches) > > > has presented for years. > > > > > > > > Following my " resurrection " from the blue-white light and the > > > presence, residence and > > > > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and > > > expansive heart and mind. > > > > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus > > > being, the announcement of > > > > the good news that this " Christing " , this awakening and > > > enlightenment, is the possible > > > > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new > > > script will be written). > > > > > > > > My " return " into this time, in this realm, was granted with a > > > commission to be a loving, > > > > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve > > > others, to respond to > > > > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a > > > truly inspired work. I > > > > was " told " that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a > > > work that Jesus died to > > > > establish in those who would come to know him. > > > > > > > > " The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, you > > > shall do, " must have > > > > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to > > > understand these words to mean > > > > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the filling of > > > the Holy Spirit, those > > > > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he > > > promised to send; a > > > > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the > > > work while alive. " I > > > > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me. " > > > > > > > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly > > > intercessor, for those who come > > > > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter > > > and finally sit at the right > > > > hand of God until all sentient beings are " Christed " as well. Yet, > > > he exists in bliss at all > > > > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender > > > mercies are new every > > > > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at about > > > 9:30 in the morning, > > > > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 You're welcome, Alan. My wife came up with our family slogan this year- which we offer to all we meet: 2009 is your time to shine. Peace and blessings for eternity, Jeff , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Jeff, >  > I agree with Jill. Thank you for sharing. >  > All best wishes for an auspicious 2009, >  > Alan > > --- On Fri, 2/1/09, Jill Eggers <eggersj wrote: > > Jill Eggers <eggersj > Re: Re: For Arto - About an encounter with Jesus > > Friday, 2 January, 2009, 10:57 PM Jeff, thank you for posting that article.  I really enjoyed reading it.  It is a wonderful story of your spiritual journey. > > > Jill > > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Jeff Belyea wrote: Dear Arto, > > This experience is a report of my personal journey, > and the model and images are a product of my > impressions - grounded in the model of my > background in a Christian culture. > > The encounter was reported as it happened to me, > and the impressions it left on my consciousness. > No contradiction is good. > > Someone from another culture might view the > light being (Ishta Devata) as an icon particular > to their culture and spiritual tradition. > > Do not be discouraged by the time of 24 years. > I began at a very young age. My affinity with > the teachings of Ramana come from the > parallels in our volitional choices to experience > the feeling of death - which led to the > awakening. > > Jeff > www.livingatwow. com > > --- In , " arto " <iamarto@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Friend, > > > > I sincerely want to know which part of the conversation you > > encountered because actually what you say doesn't contradict at all > > with what I believe.. I totally agree with you, where is the > > contradiction? > > > > Thanks for the story it is promising, but I also have to agree that 24 > > years of search are a bit disappointing to me:) At least my objective > > I have planned for within 10 years at maximum.. but then, that's the > > Ego it wants to set plans and Divine will means nothing to it :-| > > > > arto > > > > > > --- In , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff@> wrote: > > > > > > Arto - > > > > > > I noticed your inquiry about Jesus > > > in your correspondence with Alan. > > > > > > If you have patience for a fairly > > > long read, the following is from > > > a magazine article I wrote a couple > > > of years ago .The title was: > > > > > > " How I found Jesus in a Hindu Temple "  > > > > > > Going way back to the 5th grade, in a class on world religions, I > > first encountered the > > > word, " Nirvana " . It was described as utter tranquility and perfect > > peace of mind. I felt my > > > heart leap at these words. I lived in a volatile family environment > > and the appeal of a place > > > of utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind held immediate > > fascination for me. > > > > > > Having been born into a Christian culture, my search began in the > > local churches. I went > > > from church to church, from denomination to denomination, and > > finally to baptism. > > > Nothing happened. Nada. No utter tranquility. No perfect peace of mind. > > > > > > Years went by, and eventually I boarded what I have come to call, > > the last train to > > > Hippieville, in a desperate attempt to find " Nirvana " , but also to > > escape the guilt and > > > shame and degradation I felt from the many mistakes and bad > > judgements of my teen > > > years and early 20s. I'll spare you the details. > > > > > > Suffice it to say that by the time I got to Hippieville, my mantra > > was " Let me die " . As a last > > > ditch effort to avoid this drama, I went with some friends to listen > > to Maharaji, a " guru " †"  > > > another new word to me, at the time. A few months later, in a Hindu > > ashram, a woman > > > from India, a mahatma (teacher) by the name of Mohani Bai Ji was > > teaching at morning > > > satsang (a discourse " in the company of Truth " ). She often read from > > a copy of the > > > Bhagavad Gita. By now I had come to see some of the many parallels > > in the teachings of > > > Christ and Krishna. In the midst of her teachings, this particular > > morning in the summer of > > > `75, she used the exact words that had precipitated my search so > > long ago. She spoke of, > > > " utter tranquility and perfect peace of mind " as the promise of the > > true guru. I rolled > > > across the floor (we sat on pillows in a big room then), tears > > streaming down my cheeks. > > > > > > And then I spontaneously offered what I have come to know, in > > Buddhism, what is called > > > the bodhisattva vow. As Ken Wilber so aptly captures it, I said, in > > effect, " If I am allowed to > > > see this Truth, to know this utter tranquility and perfect peace of > > mind, I will spend the > > > rest of my life communicating it to others, especially those who > > traveled the same painful > > > journey as I did before coming to seek this Truth. " I didn't know > > that what was to come > > > could not be put in words. > > > > > > When I was selected for initiation, I eagerly approach the day. It > > was July 21, 1975. We > > > were being shown meditation techniques, and after a couple of > > techniques were shown, I > > > felt a heavy discouragement set in. I wasn't going to be assuaged by > > phenomenon. I began > > > to believe that I had come to another dead-end, another empty > > promise. I gave up, but > > > rather than disrupt the ceremony and the other people involved, I > > chose to just go along > > > with the rest of it, thinking I would leave the ashram the next day. > > And that old familiar > > > mantra starting sounding deep within, from deep disappointment, once > > again: Let me die. > > > Let me die. Let me die. > > > > > > In the next simple meditation technique, my world changed. And I did > > die, but not in the > > > way I expected. As I sat quietly, with no expectations whatsoever, > > it was as if some unseen > > > force performed radical brain surgery. As soon as I felt this influx > > of a new way (words fail > > > here and will be imprecise) of " knowing " , I felt myself as if > > transported to a mountain. I > > > walked along for a few steps on what appeared to be a pathway. As I > > looked down the > > > pathway, I saw a glowing figure in a white robe. My cultural past > > easily and comfortably > > > plugged the identity of Jesus into this figure. > > > > > > When I came upon Jesus along the path, he sent me into a blue-white > > light. He didn't say > > > anything to me, he just nodded and I knew he wanted me to look > > further down the path. > > > As soon as I did, I saw a huge bluewhite, egg-shaped light. And as > > soon as I saw it, I was > > > enveloped in it. There I learned that Jesus had made the impossible > > possible. He had > > > crossed the barrier between spiritual and material or physical > > reality. He had collapsed all > > > concepts of time and space. So, the intervening 2,000 years and > > thousands of miles from > > > his physical presence on earth were literally erased and irrelevant. > > I had met my satguru. > > > > > > My submission to death, in the context of the deep meditation, > > (following 24 years of > > > searching that became more and more urgent until it all collapsed in > > surrender) was > > > accepted. My spontaneous vow to serve others who were in pain and > > suffering was > > > accepted and honored. I was " Christed " . Jesus was recognized for who > > he is - not the > > > twisted distorted view the manipulative church (not all churches) > > has presented for years. > > > > > > Following my " resurrection " from the blue-white light and the > > presence, residence and > > > absorption in God, I was a newly created being with a new and > > expansive heart and mind. > > > I was invited to participate in a mission of service - the focus > > being, the announcement of > > > the good news that this " Christing " , this awakening and > > enlightenment, is the possible > > > destiny of all humankind (if we blow up the planet first, a new > > script will be written). > > > > > > My " return " into this time, in this realm, was granted with a > > commission to be a loving, > > > encouraging, light bearer, a darkness remover, a teacher; to serve > > others, to respond to > > > those who seek the light of Love and peace and compassion, to a > > truly inspired work. I > > > was " told " that I was now capable of inspired work - to carry on a > > work that Jesus died to > > > establish in those who would come to know him. > > > > > > " The works I do you shall do, and even greater works than I do, you > > shall do, " must have > > > been pretty startling words to his disciples. I've come to > > understand these words to mean > > > that while Jesus had to die to open the veil and send the filling of > > the Holy Spirit, those > > > who come after his death and who receive this Holy Spirit that he > > promised to send; a > > > promise that he delivered on at Pentecost, are empowered to do the > > work while alive. " I > > > will baptize you with fire and with power to witness of me. "  > > > > > > Jesus remains outside the blue-white light as a heavenly > > intercessor, for those who come > > > along his mystical path, as a true bodhisattva, who will not enter > > and finally sit at the right > > > hand of God until all sentient beings are " Christed " as well. Yet, > > he exists in bliss at all > > > times. He is contained within every breath I take, and His tender > > mercies are new every > > > morning. That's how it has been for me, since July 21, 1975 at about > > 9:30 in the morning, > > > in this epical meeting of Jesus in a Hindu temple. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff wrote: > > Dear Arto, > > Thanks. I wasn't sure what you meant. > > I feel that a better translation of that > quote would be, " No one comes before > the father except through (becoming as) Me. " Namaste, This statement by Jesus/Jehoshua is easily understood. He is speaking as the 'Son' /Sakti. One cannot realise NirGuna without Saguna Brahman, even if it is simultaneous..............Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > One cannot realise NirGuna without Saguna Brahman, > even if it is simultaneous Hello Tony, Could we put it this way? Nirguna need not to be realized, since it's what we are. Realization is the dissolution of the idea that the gunas in Sarguna are real. Isvara is as real as you take yourself to be (paraphrasing Bhagavan Ramana). Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff@> wrote: > > > > Dear Arto, > > > > Thanks. I wasn't sure what you meant. > > > > I feel that a better translation of that > > quote would be, " No one comes before > > the father except through (becoming as) Me. " > > Namaste, > > This statement by Jesus/Jehoshua is easily understood. He is speaking > as the 'Son' /Sakti. One cannot realise NirGuna without Saguna Brahman, > even if it is simultaneous..............> Namaste, Nice.This works for me. I like the 'simultaneous' note. Thanks. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I would like to ask for assistance in terminologies. Is there any good spiritual dictionary to translate from Hindu terms to English terms so I can be more familiar with.. what's being meant? any help appreciated, arto , " upadesa " <maunna wrote: > > " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > One cannot realise NirGuna without Saguna Brahman, > > even if it is simultaneous > > Hello Tony, > > Could we put it this way? > Nirguna need not to be realized, since it's what we are. Realization > is the dissolution of the idea that the gunas in Sarguna are real. > > Isvara is as real as you take yourself to be (paraphrasing Bhagavan > Ramana). > > Yours in Bhagavan, > Mouna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Arto - This link goes to a very clear explanation of the terms, the Advaita philosophy, and the English meaning. This is one of the most concise explanations I've read. http://www.sankaracharya.org/advaita_philosophy.php Jeff , " arto " <iamarto wrote: > > I would like to ask for assistance in terminologies. > > Is there any good spiritual dictionary to translate from Hindu terms > to English terms so I can be more familiar with.. what's being meant? > > any help appreciated, > arto > > , " upadesa " <maunna@> wrote: > > > > " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > One cannot realise NirGuna without Saguna Brahman, > > > even if it is simultaneous > > > > Hello Tony, > > > > Could we put it this way? > > Nirguna need not to be realized, since it's what we are. Realization > > is the dissolution of the idea that the gunas in Sarguna are real. > > > > Isvara is as real as you take yourself to be (paraphrasing Bhagavan > > Ramana). > > > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > Mouna > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 " arto " <iamarto wrote: > > I would like to ask for assistance in terminologies. > > Is there any good spiritual dictionary to translate from Hindu terms > to English terms so I can be more familiar with.. what's being meant? Dear Arto, Here: http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/definitions/definitions.htm You will find a good start. Also this website has a lot of information about Adviata in general plus a sanskrit dictionary (limited, but with the principal words) Good luck Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Dear Arto, Swami Nikhilananda's translation of " Atma Bodha " ( " Self Knowledge " by Sankaracharya) has a useful little glossary of Sanskrit words at the back. More importantly it has an excellent 120 page introduction to Advaita Vedanta expounding on key teachings and key terminology. It's written in style which is very easy to read and digest. The second part of the book is the text of " Self Knowledge " , again with notes and explanation of key concepts and terminology. Nikhilananda's translations and commentaries are highly regarded among teachers and students alike. It can be purchased second had for around £2.50 (or even less!) from the international ABE Books: http://www.abebooks.co.uk/ It's available as new for a small cost from any Ramakrishna Vedanta Centre. For example, in the UK they charge £3.00 including postage for the paperback. Many countries around the world have their own Ramakrishna Vedanta Centre which publish Nikhilanda's works along with many Advaita books at very low prices. Go to the following and look up one near you in the " Worldwide Centre " link. http://www.vedantauk.com/ Best wishes, Peter On Behalf Of arto 03 January 2009 23:27 Re: For Arto - About an encounter with Jesus I would like to ask for assistance in terminologies. Is there any good spiritual dictionary to translate from Hindu terms to English terms so I can be more familiar with.. what's being meant? any help appreciated, arto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 , " upadesa " <maunna wrote: > > " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > One cannot realise NirGuna without Saguna Brahman, > > even if it is simultaneous > > Hello Tony, > > Could we put it this way? > Nirguna need not to be realized, since it's what we are. Realization > is the dissolution of the idea that the gunas in Sarguna are real. > > Isvara is as real as you take yourself to be (paraphrasing Bhagavan > Ramana). > > Yours in Bhagavan, > Mouna > Namaste Mouna, In illusion we are actually praneswara or sakti/Saguna. NirGuna cannot 'Be' so we cannot be!....Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > In illusion we are actually praneswara or sakti/Saguna. NirGuna > cannot 'Be' so we cannot be!....> Namaskar Tony, I know we are playing with words here, but disagree a little about the semantics. Nirguna " is " , because there is only existence. The essence (not the attributes) of Nirguna is Sat-Cit-Ananda (existence-consciousness and biss). Pranams, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.