Guest guest Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Your ego, arto, is showing. When you are ready for a teacher you will silently accept their teaching. Right now, you have no room in your noisy mind. With love, Jeff , " arto " <iamarto wrote: > > I would like to comment on the inner/outer issue as it has been also > said in a previous reply. > > The idea that I don't need to go to any place " outside " but rather go > " deep inside " is theoretically very appealing, spiritually can be > easily referenced throughout the sages, but.. (my own opinion) it's a > big bread for the unprepared. Has anyone lived at a bus station and > claimed to have focused on the inner work? If the air you breath is > polluted, if the sound you hear is polluted, if the food you eat is > malnourished, if all you see around you is full of lies, if the people > you talk to are dead.. it is a dead end. > > True Reality of the All is suppressed due to an abused 5-sense > stimulation. So then when there are modern Self-Realized authors are > very surprised " how come they can't SEE IT? " they do not realize that > *mass fear*, *mass murder*, *mass poverty & hunger* and all the > cruelties of the world are emotionally imprisoning Man in his Ego--the > Egg shell. That's why the Sages would advice " if you free yourself you > free others " , we are all in one spiritual matrix, and the more people > are enlightened the more the rest have a chance. > > The biggest problem to face is to shut-off the mirror talking to you. > The most kin beings to you are deceiving you, because they don't know. > How can you stop looking at the false mirror, if you live in a house > of false mirrors. The more you cover these mirrors the more others > would appear.. man is dynamic, and the human form is appealing and > convincing, because we have one! > > Also unless there is some preliminary basics of concentration it is > not possible to isolate from such a distracting environment. But what > is concentration? Is it only maintaining a one pointed mind focus? > Well, concentration is on many levels and detachment does help to free > oneself from the world, because it gives the peace of mind. What is > peace of mind? > > It is.. > 1. detachment from work concerns > 2. detachment from family problems > 3. detachment from public distraction/lies/criticism > 4. detachment from caring for the future or the past > 5. detachment from the dead. > > I am not the Neo of the matrix, I'm a very ordinary human being > and I have some knowledge, but not the experience, not the wisdom. I > can have sword to fight one, but not a nation. > > I've heard that Hermes Trismegistus the God-man of the ancients has > left the secret of life in his tomb, and when they opened it, it read > " As above so Below " . The wisdom of this saying is so visible to the > Advaita tradition, but I will take it from another point of view; that > whatsoever is out is also in, and what's in is out. The force is too > high that what's in may resist changing what's out, but if what's out > resonates with what's in, then there is harmony, and peace. > > Who can put a ball of fire in the ocean and keep it grow more? There's > a difference between the actuality of reality and theoretical > spirituality. Some would consider this a self imposed limitation on > the mind, a lack of persistence or open-mindedness, and I would accept > this judgment because I would fail to prove otherwise. > > Perhaps I'm hanging my disability of spiritual progress on unreal > reasons, but then... it's not working for me and I feel caught in a > waste of time. > > I apologize to have discussed my personal immature concerns, as this > is supposed to be a forum useful to everyone. I appologize for this > noise, I caused :-| > > Appreciating & deep Thanks for helping me, > arto > > > > , " Peter " <not_2@> wrote: > > > > Dear Arto, > > > > Some people and some people's lives, including our own, may appear to be > > 'dead' at times. We cannot know for certain nor judge these things > from 'the > > outside'. We may as well dismiss the value of the empty field and > barren > > trees in winter because we cannot see the life pulse that has > withdrawn from > > our sight. Wherever we are and whoever we are with is where our own > Karma > > has brought us. > > > > To outward appearances, we are all " the hollow men...the stuffed men, > > leaning together, headpiece filled with straw. " Yet the Master, > Ramana, and > > all the great Sages still smile benevolently, compassionately, upon > us all. > > We may look around the world and see ignorance, grasping at an existence > > that appears to lead only to 'death'. The Master tells us He sees > only the > > One Life, Brahman, in which all are jnanis. > > > > The flame that burns in the heart to give up the world may not > necessarily > > need to be 'acted out' by roaming from this place to that, going > from here > > to there, but rather 'acted in' as we dive within ourselves to the > source > > that pulls us inwards and homeward. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of arto > > 08 January 2009 15:01 > > > > Rising from the Dead: All > > definitions are Reversed > > > > I needed to talk about this issue or " word " in particular, because > I'm not > > clearly settled to conclusions and thought that discussion would help. > > > > My initial desire to leave the world behind and go to India is still > burning > > in my heart. But from another side there is a tricky spiritual game > > occurring in my mind due to having problems inside the family. > > > > The problem is related to my sister, she has this mood of trying not to > > waste time and have fun all the time. My parents are having hard time to > > convince her that she should work and spend on her self, but she's not > > convinced of this lifestyle.. she had a company of friends who are > not so > > good, but after many discussions there seems to be no hope that she > change > > her lifestyle. > > > > My parents are not displeased with my own lifestyle, but even if they do > > they would never realize that all I'm trying to do is to wake up > from the > > deadly life I'm living. And.. it's hard to say it but my family is > " dead " . > > <snip> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I agree, mental debate for enlightenment is a logical blunder anyways. I am a mental person, and in trying to corner all possibilities it appears as a violent reaction, when the intention was to reach a " perfect " solution. It's ok thanks for your help, arto , " Jeff Belyea " <jeff wrote: > > Your ego, arto, is showing. > > When you are ready for a > teacher you will silently > accept their teaching. > > Right now, you have no room > in your noisy mind. > > With love, > > Jeff > > , " arto " <iamarto@> wrote: > > > > I would like to comment on the inner/outer issue as it has been also > > said in a previous reply. > > > > The idea that I don't need to go to any place " outside " but rather go > > " deep inside " is theoretically very appealing, spiritually can be > > easily referenced throughout the sages, but.. (my own opinion) it's a > > big bread for the unprepared. Has anyone lived at a bus station and > > claimed to have focused on the inner work? If the air you breath is > > polluted, if the sound you hear is polluted, if the food you eat is > > malnourished, if all you see around you is full of lies, if the people > > you talk to are dead.. it is a dead end. > > > > True Reality of the All is suppressed due to an abused 5-sense > > stimulation. So then when there are modern Self-Realized authors are > > very surprised " how come they can't SEE IT? " they do not realize that > > *mass fear*, *mass murder*, *mass poverty & hunger* and all the > > cruelties of the world are emotionally imprisoning Man in his Ego--the > > Egg shell. That's why the Sages would advice " if you free yourself you > > free others " , we are all in one spiritual matrix, and the more people > > are enlightened the more the rest have a chance. > > > > The biggest problem to face is to shut-off the mirror talking to you. > > The most kin beings to you are deceiving you, because they don't know. > > How can you stop looking at the false mirror, if you live in a house > > of false mirrors. The more you cover these mirrors the more others > > would appear.. man is dynamic, and the human form is appealing and > > convincing, because we have one! > > > > Also unless there is some preliminary basics of concentration it is > > not possible to isolate from such a distracting environment. But what > > is concentration? Is it only maintaining a one pointed mind focus? > > Well, concentration is on many levels and detachment does help to free > > oneself from the world, because it gives the peace of mind. What is > > peace of mind? > > > > It is.. > > 1. detachment from work concerns > > 2. detachment from family problems > > 3. detachment from public distraction/lies/criticism > > 4. detachment from caring for the future or the past > > 5. detachment from the dead. > > > > I am not the Neo of the matrix, I'm a very ordinary human being > > and I have some knowledge, but not the experience, not the wisdom. I > > can have sword to fight one, but not a nation. > > > > I've heard that Hermes Trismegistus the God-man of the ancients has > > left the secret of life in his tomb, and when they opened it, it read > > " As above so Below " . The wisdom of this saying is so visible to the > > Advaita tradition, but I will take it from another point of view; that > > whatsoever is out is also in, and what's in is out. The force is too > > high that what's in may resist changing what's out, but if what's out > > resonates with what's in, then there is harmony, and peace. > > > > Who can put a ball of fire in the ocean and keep it grow more? There's > > a difference between the actuality of reality and theoretical > > spirituality. Some would consider this a self imposed limitation on > > the mind, a lack of persistence or open-mindedness, and I would accept > > this judgment because I would fail to prove otherwise. > > > > Perhaps I'm hanging my disability of spiritual progress on unreal > > reasons, but then... it's not working for me and I feel caught in a > > waste of time. > > > > I apologize to have discussed my personal immature concerns, as this > > is supposed to be a forum useful to everyone. I appologize for this > > noise, I caused :-| > > > > Appreciating & deep Thanks for helping me, > > arto > > > > > > > > , " Peter " <not_2@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Arto, > > > > > > Some people and some people's lives, including our own, may appear to be > > > 'dead' at times. We cannot know for certain nor judge these things > > from 'the > > > outside'. We may as well dismiss the value of the empty field and > > barren > > > trees in winter because we cannot see the life pulse that has > > withdrawn from > > > our sight. Wherever we are and whoever we are with is where our own > > Karma > > > has brought us. > > > > > > To outward appearances, we are all " the hollow men...the stuffed men, > > > leaning together, headpiece filled with straw. " Yet the Master, > > Ramana, and > > > all the great Sages still smile benevolently, compassionately, upon > > us all. > > > We may look around the world and see ignorance, grasping at an existence > > > that appears to lead only to 'death'. The Master tells us He sees > > only the > > > One Life, Brahman, in which all are jnanis. > > > > > > The flame that burns in the heart to give up the world may not > > necessarily > > > need to be 'acted out' by roaming from this place to that, going > > from here > > > to there, but rather 'acted in' as we dive within ourselves to the > > source > > > that pulls us inwards and homeward. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of arto > > > 08 January 2009 15:01 > > > > > > Rising from the Dead: All > > > definitions are Reversed > > > > > > I needed to talk about this issue or " word " in particular, because > > I'm not > > > clearly settled to conclusions and thought that discussion would help. > > > > > > My initial desire to leave the world behind and go to India is still > > burning > > > in my heart. But from another side there is a tricky spiritual game > > > occurring in my mind due to having problems inside the family. > > > > > > The problem is related to my sister, she has this mood of trying not to > > > waste time and have fun all the time. My parents are having hard time to > > > convince her that she should work and spend on her self, but she's not > > > convinced of this lifestyle.. she had a company of friends who are > > not so > > > good, but after many discussions there seems to be no hope that she > > change > > > her lifestyle. > > > > > > My parents are not displeased with my own lifestyle, but even if they do > > > they would never realize that all I'm trying to do is to wake up > > from the > > > deadly life I'm living. And.. it's hard to say it but my family is > > " dead " . > > > <snip> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Dear Arto please inform me/us what you understand with the expression "i am a mental person" tku in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael bindel - arto Friday, January 09, 2009 7:36 PM Re: Rising from the Dead: All definitions are Rev I agree, mental debate for enlightenment is a logical blunder anyways.I am a mental person, and in trying to corner all possibilities itappears as a violent reaction, when the intention was to reach a"perfect" solution.It's ok thanks for your help,arto , "Jeff Belyea" <jeff wrote:>> Your ego, arto, is showing.> > When you are ready for a> teacher you will silently> accept their teaching. > > Right now, you have no room> in your noisy mind.> > With love,> > Jeff> > , "arto" <iamarto@> wrote:> >> > I would like to comment on the inner/outer issue as it has been also> > said in a previous reply.> > > > The idea that I don't need to go to any place "outside" but rather go> > "deep inside" is theoretically very appealing, spiritually can be> > easily referenced throughout the sages, but.. (my own opinion) it's a> > big bread for the unprepared. Has anyone lived at a bus station and> > claimed to have focused on the inner work? If the air you breath is> > polluted, if the sound you hear is polluted, if the food you eat is> > malnourished, if all you see around you is full of lies, if the people> > you talk to are dead.. it is a dead end.> > > > True Reality of the All is suppressed due to an abused 5-sense> > stimulation. So then when there are modern Self-Realized authors are> > very surprised "how come they can't SEE IT?" they do not realize that> > *mass fear*, *mass murder*, *mass poverty & hunger* and all the> > cruelties of the world are emotionally imprisoning Man in his Ego--the> > Egg shell. That's why the Sages would advice "if you free yourself you> > free others", we are all in one spiritual matrix, and the more people> > are enlightened the more the rest have a chance.> > > > The biggest problem to face is to shut-off the mirror talking to you.> > The most kin beings to you are deceiving you, because they don't know.> > How can you stop looking at the false mirror, if you live in a house> > of false mirrors. The more you cover these mirrors the more others> > would appear.. man is dynamic, and the human form is appealing and> > convincing, because we have one!> > > > Also unless there is some preliminary basics of concentration it is> > not possible to isolate from such a distracting environment. But what> > is concentration? Is it only maintaining a one pointed mind focus?> > Well, concentration is on many levels and detachment does help to free> > oneself from the world, because it gives the peace of mind. What is> > peace of mind?> > > > It is..> > 1. detachment from work concerns> > 2. detachment from family problems> > 3. detachment from public distraction/lies/criticism> > 4. detachment from caring for the future or the past> > 5. detachment from the dead.> > > > I am not the Neo of the matrix, I'm a very ordinary human being> > and I have some knowledge, but not the experience, not the wisdom. I> > can have sword to fight one, but not a nation.> > > > I've heard that Hermes Trismegistus the God-man of the ancients has> > left the secret of life in his tomb, and when they opened it, it read> > "As above so Below". The wisdom of this saying is so visible to the> > Advaita tradition, but I will take it from another point of view; that> > whatsoever is out is also in, and what's in is out. The force is too> > high that what's in may resist changing what's out, but if what's out> > resonates with what's in, then there is harmony, and peace.> > > > Who can put a ball of fire in the ocean and keep it grow more? There's> > a difference between the actuality of reality and theoretical> > spirituality. Some would consider this a self imposed limitation on> > the mind, a lack of persistence or open-mindedness, and I would accept> > this judgment because I would fail to prove otherwise.> > > > Perhaps I'm hanging my disability of spiritual progress on unreal> > reasons, but then... it's not working for me and I feel caught in a> > waste of time.> > > > I apologize to have discussed my personal immature concerns, as this> > is supposed to be a forum useful to everyone. I appologize for this> > noise, I caused :-|> > > > Appreciating & deep Thanks for helping me,> > arto> > > > > > > > , "Peter" <not_2@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Arto,> > > > > > Some people and some people's lives, including our own, mayappear to be> > > 'dead' at times. We cannot know for certain nor judge these things> > from 'the> > > outside'. We may as well dismiss the value of the empty field and> > barren> > > trees in winter because we cannot see the life pulse that has> > withdrawn from> > > our sight. Wherever we are and whoever we are with is where our own> > Karma> > > has brought us. > > > > > > To outward appearances, we are all "the hollow men...the stuffedmen,> > > leaning together, headpiece filled with straw." Yet the Master,> > Ramana, and> > > all the great Sages still smile benevolently, compassionately, upon> > us all.> > > We may look around the world and see ignorance, grasping at anexistence> > > that appears to lead only to 'death'. The Master tells us He sees> > only the> > > One Life, Brahman, in which all are jnanis.> > > > > > The flame that burns in the heart to give up the world may not> > necessarily> > > need to be 'acted out' by roaming from this place to that, going> > from here> > > to there, but rather 'acted in' as we dive within ourselves to the> > source> > > that pulls us inwards and homeward.> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > Peter> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of arto> > > 08 January 2009 15:01> > > > > > Rising from the Dead: All> > > definitions are Reversed> > > > > > I needed to talk about this issue or "word" in particular, because> > I'm not> > > clearly settled to conclusions and thought that discussion wouldhelp.> > > > > > My initial desire to leave the world behind and go to India is still> > burning> > > in my heart. But from another side there is a tricky spiritual game> > > occurring in my mind due to having problems inside the family.> > > > > > The problem is related to my sister, she has this mood of tryingnot to> > > waste time and have fun all the time. My parents are having hardtime to> > > convince her that she should work and spend on her self, butshe's not> > > convinced of this lifestyle.. she had a company of friends who are> > not so> > > good, but after many discussions there seems to be no hope that she> > change> > > her lifestyle. > > > > > > My parents are not displeased with my own lifestyle, but even ifthey do> > > they would never realize that all I'm trying to do is to wake up> > from the> > > deadly life I'm living. And.. it's hard to say it but my family is> > "dead".> > > <snip>> > >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1883 - Release 08/01/2009 18.05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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