Guest guest Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 From Padamalai P.26 V 17 From Bhagavan's Promises and Declarations GIVE ME YOUR BURDENS If you enquire and know me, the Self within, in that state there will be no reason for you to worry about the world. -oOo- Note: Murunagar wrote a great Poem called 'Padamalai', (Feet of the Guru) from which this verse is an extract. It contains Bhagavan's Utterances which the great Tamil Poet recorded for the more mature seeker, translated by Robert Butler in aphoristic form.Published by Ramanasramam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009  I am still enquiring. I know for me I have to appeal to a higher source for relief from the human elements. I think I am learning the proper perspective, but at times the human emotions do not cooperate, still need more time to retrain my brain. But, as I deal with each obstacle I know now to ask what I consider to be God for help and it does come. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:53 PM From Padamalai by Muruganar From Padamalai P.26 V 17From Bhagavan's Promises and DeclarationsGIVE ME YOUR BURDENSIf you enquire and know me, the Self within, in that state there will be no reason for you to worry about the world.-oOo-Note:Murunagar wrote a great Poem called 'Padamalai', (Feet of the Guru) from which this verse is an extract. It contains Bhagavan's Utterances which the great Tamil Poet recorded for the more mature seeker, translated by Robert Butler in aphoristic form.Published by Ramanasramam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Dear Karla, My intuition tells me you are on the right track with this thorny question. All best wishes and warm regards, In His Grace, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes wrote: karla <docdanesRe: From Padamalai by Muruganar Date: Monday, 12 January, 2009, 1:16 AM  I am still enquiring. I know for me I have to appeal to a higher source for relief from the human elements. I think I am learning the proper perspective, but at times the human emotions do not cooperate, still need more time to retrain my brain. But, as I deal with each obstacle I know now to ask what I consider to be God for help and it does come. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:53 PM From Padamalai by Muruganar From Padamalai P.26 V 17From Bhagavan's Promises and DeclarationsGIVE ME YOUR BURDENSIf you enquire and know me, the Self within, in that state there will be no reason for you to worry about the world.-oOo-Note:Murunagar wrote a great Poem called 'Padamalai', (Feet of the Guru) from which this verse is an extract. It contains Bhagavan's Utterances which the great Tamil Poet recorded for the more mature seeker, translated by Robert Butler in aphoristic form.Published by Ramanasramam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009  Thank you Alan. I don't think we ever stop learning and changing. Maybe after enlightenment, I don't know. The life path a person has in this incarnation, is it chosen or is it a result of past life karma? Someone told me the karma is in the DNA, and what I was going through was not a result of bad Karma, but I am confused. But, then really, it doesn't matter, but I still wonder. I appreciate your input, Alan, I know there are many seekers on the path, but it is hard to find them. The solitary journey to find ones self can be very lonely at times and I suspect it has to be that way, but it is good to know there are others on the same journey even though they are not visible. Peace and light. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:55 PM Re: From Padamalai by Muruganar Dear Karla, My intuition tells me you are on the right track with this thorny question. All best wishes and warm regards, In His Grace, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>Re: From Padamalai by Muruganar Date: Monday, 12 January, 2009, 1:16 AM  I am still enquiring. I know for me I have to appeal to a higher source for relief from the human elements. I think I am learning the proper perspective, but at times the human emotions do not cooperate, still need more time to retrain my brain. But, as I deal with each obstacle I know now to ask what I consider to be God for help and it does come. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:53 PM From Padamalai by Muruganar From Padamalai P.26 V 17From Bhagavan's Promises and DeclarationsGIVE ME YOUR BURDENSIf you enquire and know me, the Self within, in that state there will be no reason for you to worry about the world.-oOo-Note:Murunagar wrote a great Poem called 'Padamalai', (Feet of the Guru) from which this verse is an extract. It contains Bhagavan's Utterances which the great Tamil Poet recorded for the more mature seeker, translated by Robert Butler in aphoristic form.Published by Ramanasramam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Dear Karla, Bhagavan was quite clear that the karma of each jiva is preordained by Iswara from vasanas accumulated in previous lives for his or her spiritual development.He told this to Brunton and it is recorded in the book Conscious Immortality. Karma continues until Realisation when the whole karmatic scheme collapses and there is no more rebirth in samsara on Earth. What happens after Death is a mystery as it may be different for each Jiva. Bhagavan has hinted that there are other planes of existence, and also there is the general idea of Being absorbed in Brahman which is Pure Formless Absolute Consciousness, Reality Bliss. I trust this makes its more clear. We must wait until we get there, and surrender first. All very best wishes in your quest, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes wrote: karla <docdanesRe: From Padamalai by Muruganar Date: Monday, 12 January, 2009, 2:51 PM  Thank you Alan. I don't think we ever stop learning and changing. Maybe after enlightenment, I don't know. The life path a person has in this incarnation, is it chosen or is it a result of past life karma? Someone told me the karma is in the DNA, and what I was going through was not a result of bad Karma, but I am confused. But, then really, it doesn't matter, but I still wonder. I appreciate your input, Alan, I know there are many seekers on the path, but it is hard to find them. The solitary journey to find ones self can be very lonely at times and I suspect it has to be that way, but it is good to know there are others on the same journey even though they are not visible. Peace and light. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:55 PM Re: From Padamalai by Muruganar Dear Karla, My intuition tells me you are on the right track with this thorny question. All best wishes and warm regards, In His Grace, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>Re: From Padamalai by MuruganarMonday, 12 January, 2009, 1:16 AM  I am still enquiring. I know for me I have to appeal to a higher source for relief from the human elements. I think I am learning the proper perspective, but at times the human emotions do not cooperate, still need more time to retrain my brain. But, as I deal with each obstacle I know now to ask what I consider to be God for help and it does come. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:53 PM From Padamalai by Muruganar From Padamalai P.26 V 17From Bhagavan's Promises and DeclarationsGIVE ME YOUR BURDENSIf you enquire and know me, the Self within, in that state there will be no reason for you to worry about the world.-oOo-Note:Murunagar wrote a great Poem called 'Padamalai', (Feet of the Guru) from which this verse is an extract. It contains Bhagavan's Utterances which the great Tamil Poet recorded for the more mature seeker, translated by Robert Butler in aphoristic form.Published by Ramanasramam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009  Thank you Alan, it seems sometimes the surrendering comes from suffering, but I am pretty sure I understand it. When the pain becomes so sever, we will reach for a higher power because we know it is the only source of peace and love to calm our tormented heart and we let go of the things in this world. We accept that this is an illusion and the real is beyond the veil. I guess I am hard headed so my path may have been harder than it really needed to be, or maybe bad karma. It takes work to shake off the negative thoughts and emotions that have impressed the psychic over many years of believing in the illusion. As we all look to the light our hearts pure and of love, I hope your journey is joyful and blessed with light. k - Alan Jacobs Monday, January 12, 2009 9:01 AM Re: From Padamalai by Muruganar Dear Karla, Bhagavan was quite clear that the karma of each jiva is preordained by Iswara from vasanas accumulated in previous lives for his or her spiritual development.He told this to Brunton and it is recorded in the book Conscious Immortality. Karma continues until Realisation when the whole karmatic scheme collapses and there is no more rebirth in samsara on Earth. What happens after Death is a mystery as it may be different for each Jiva. Bhagavan has hinted that there are other planes of existence, and also there is the general idea of Being absorbed in Brahman which is Pure Formless Absolute Consciousness, Reality Bliss. I trust this makes its more clear. We must wait until we get there, and surrender first. All very best wishes in your quest, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>Re: From Padamalai by Muruganar Date: Monday, 12 January, 2009, 2:51 PM  Thank you Alan. I don't think we ever stop learning and changing. Maybe after enlightenment, I don't know. The life path a person has in this incarnation, is it chosen or is it a result of past life karma? Someone told me the karma is in the DNA, and what I was going through was not a result of bad Karma, but I am confused. But, then really, it doesn't matter, but I still wonder. I appreciate your input, Alan, I know there are many seekers on the path, but it is hard to find them. The solitary journey to find ones self can be very lonely at times and I suspect it has to be that way, but it is good to know there are others on the same journey even though they are not visible. Peace and light. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:55 PM Re: From Padamalai by Muruganar Dear Karla, My intuition tells me you are on the right track with this thorny question. All best wishes and warm regards, In His Grace, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>Re: From Padamalai by MuruganarMonday, 12 January, 2009, 1:16 AM  I am still enquiring. I know for me I have to appeal to a higher source for relief from the human elements. I think I am learning the proper perspective, but at times the human emotions do not cooperate, still need more time to retrain my brain. But, as I deal with each obstacle I know now to ask what I consider to be God for help and it does come. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:53 PM From Padamalai by Muruganar From Padamalai P.26 V 17From Bhagavan's Promises and DeclarationsGIVE ME YOUR BURDENSIf you enquire and know me, the Self within, in that state there will be no reason for you to worry about the world.-oOo-Note:Murunagar wrote a great Poem called 'Padamalai', (Feet of the Guru) from which this verse is an extract. It contains Bhagavan's Utterances which the great Tamil Poet recorded for the more mature seeker, translated by Robert Butler in aphoristic form.Published by Ramanasramam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Dear Karla, I feel your reasoning is sound. However, don't burden your mind with the idea of bad karma, it is a hindrance. Just walk on the path without the burden of the past as far as possible. that's my advice. Thanks for your good wishes. All warm regards, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes wrote: karla <docdanesRe: From Padamalai by Muruganar Date: Monday, 12 January, 2009, 3:35 PM  Thank you Alan, it seems sometimes the surrendering comes from suffering, but I am pretty sure I understand it. When the pain becomes so sever, we will reach for a higher power because we know it is the only source of peace and love to calm our tormented heart and we let go of the things in this world. We accept that this is an illusion and the real is beyond the veil. I guess I am hard headed so my path may have been harder than it really needed to be, or maybe bad karma. It takes work to shake off the negative thoughts and emotions that have impressed the psychic over many years of believing in the illusion. As we all look to the light our hearts pure and of love, I hope your journey is joyful and blessed with light. k - Alan Jacobs Monday, January 12, 2009 9:01 AM Re: From Padamalai by Muruganar Dear Karla, Bhagavan was quite clear that the karma of each jiva is preordained by Iswara from vasanas accumulated in previous lives for his or her spiritual development. He told this to Brunton and it is recorded in the book Conscious Immortality. Karma continues until Realisation when the whole karmatic scheme collapses and there is no more rebirth in samsara on Earth. What happens after Death is a mystery as it may be different for each Jiva. Bhagavan has hinted that there are other planes of existence, and also there is the general idea of Being absorbed in Brahman which is Pure Formless Absolute Consciousness, Reality Bliss. I trust this makes its more clear. We must wait until we get there, and surrender first. All very best wishes in your quest, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>Re: From Padamalai by MuruganarMonday, 12 January, 2009, 2:51 PM  Thank you Alan. I don't think we ever stop learning and changing. Maybe after enlightenment, I don't know. The life path a person has in this incarnation, is it chosen or is it a result of past life karma? Someone told me the karma is in the DNA, and what I was going through was not a result of bad Karma, but I am confused. But, then really, it doesn't matter, but I still wonder. I appreciate your input, Alan, I know there are many seekers on the path, but it is hard to find them. The solitary journey to find ones self can be very lonely at times and I suspect it has to be that way, but it is good to know there are others on the same journey even though they are not visible. Peace and light. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:55 PM Re: From Padamalai by Muruganar Dear Karla, My intuition tells me you are on the right track with this thorny question. All best wishes and warm regards, In His Grace, Alan --- On Mon, 12/1/09, karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>Re: From Padamalai by MuruganarMonday, 12 January, 2009, 1:16 AM  I am still enquiring. I know for me I have to appeal to a higher source for relief from the human elements. I think I am learning the proper perspective, but at times the human emotions do not cooperate, still need more time to retrain my brain. But, as I deal with each obstacle I know now to ask what I consider to be God for help and it does come. k - Alan Jacobs Sunday, January 11, 2009 5:53 PM From Padamalai by Muruganar From Padamalai P.26 V 17From Bhagavan's Promises and DeclarationsGIVE ME YOUR BURDENSIf you enquire and know me, the Self within, in that state there will be no reason for you to worry about the world.-oOo-Note:Murunagar wrote a great Poem called 'Padamalai', (Feet of the Guru) from which this verse is an extract. It contains Bhagavan's Utterances which the great Tamil Poet recorded for the more mature seeker, translated by Robert Butler in aphoristic form.Published by Ramanasramam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Karla, >  > Bhagavan was quite clear that the karma of each jiva is preordained by Iswara from vasanas accumulated in previous lives for his or her spiritual development.He told this to Brunton and it is recorded in the book Conscious Immortality. Karma continues until Realisation when the whole karmatic scheme collapses and there is no more rebirth in samsara on Earth. What happens after Death is a mystery as it may be different for each Jiva. Bhagavan has hinted that there are other planes of existence, and also there is the general idea of Being absorbed in Brahman which is Pure Formless Absolute Consciousness, Reality Bliss. I trust this makes its more clear. We must wait until we get there, and surrender first. >  > All very best wishes in your quest, >  > Alan Namaste, I think you will find that Ramana also said the Iswara was as real as you are. Following that you are as real as your karma is. In the end result you, karma and Iswara are just illusions at best.........Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Dear Tony, From the highest perspective you are right. But Bhagavan often gave teaching statements at a lower perspective to be regarded as true, in order to help people stuck in the position they were in. Absolute statements might be given at a later stage. There is no doubt that Iswara (Almighty God), an adjunct of Brahman for governing the world (samsara) plays a very powerful part in our lives, until we reach the ultimate stage which you quote and Bhagavan describes. All regards, Alan .--- On Mon, 12/1/09, Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: Tony OClery <aocleryRe: From Padamalai by Muruganar Date: Monday, 12 January, 2009, 5:04 PM , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Karla,>  > Bhagavan was quite clear that the karma of each jiva is preordained by Iswara from vasanas accumulated in previous lives for his or her spiritual development. He told this to Brunton and it is recorded in the book Conscious Immortality. Karma continues until Realisation when the whole karmatic scheme collapses and there is no more rebirth in samsara on Earth. What happens after Death is a mystery as it may be different for each Jiva. Bhagavan has hinted that there are other planes of existence, and also there is the general idea of Being absorbed in Brahman which is Pure Formless Absolute Consciousness, Reality Bliss. I trust this makes its more clear. We must wait until we get there, and surrender first.>  > All very best wishes in your quest,>  > Alan Namaste,I think you will find that Ramana also said the Iswara was as real as you are. Following that you are as real as your karma is. In the end result you, karma and Iswara are just illusions at best........ .Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Tony, >  > From the highest perspective you are right. But Bhagavan often gave teaching statements at a lower perspective to be regarded as true, in order to help people stuck in the position they were in. Absolute statements might be given at a later stage. There is no doubt that Iswara (Almighty God), an adjunct of Brahman for governing the world (samsara) plays a very powerful part in our lives, until we reach the ultimate stage which you quote and Bhagavan describes. >  > All regards, >  > Alan . Namaste Alan, Except for people who are not mentally developed, the concept of Iswara is really redundant for non dualists. There is no Iswara doing anything even if we accept a certain amount of validity to illusion. Praying to Iswara results in a good feeling perhaps, but Saguna only provides the energy not the will to act or act. Within the illusion of the 3 worlds there is more chance of a Deva or Angel Spirit being of some use than the concept of Iswara. Remember Krishna and the two birds on the bough, one is observing only---that is Iswara doing nothing..........Ramana talked at the level of mind of his interviewees, that doesn't mean it has to be accepted as gospel by seekers........Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 karla wrote:  Thank you Alan. I don't think we ever stop learning and changing. Maybe after enlightenment, I don't know. The life path a person has in this incarnation, is it chosen or is it a result of past life karma? Someone told me the karma is in the DNA, and what I was going through was not a result of bad Karma, but I am confused. But, then really, it doesn't matter, but I still wonder. I appreciate your input, Alan, I know there are many seekers on the path, but it is hard to find them. The solitary journey to find ones self can be very lonely at times and I suspect it has to be that way, but it is good to know there are others on the same journey even though they are not visible. Peace and light. k ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  hi karla, welcome to the company. enlightenment is a anticlimax - all is just as it should be... in spite of any expectations.  Ever since  Beloved, Ever since Your grace removed My heart's Hard shell of “me†All my eyes behold Wherever and whenever Everyone I face Is Totally Enlightened (the above poem is from "BOOM!") yosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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