Guest guest Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > , " Satish Vijayan " > <satishvijayan@> wrote: > > > > I always believed this is not something that can be understood > through > > study. I too can transliterate nirguna into 'no attributes'. I just > > don't believe its an accurate representation. How do you explain > the > > universe with Nirgun (per your transliteration)? Its like trying to > > seperate white from milk. You cannot seperate the manifest from the > > unmanifest. > > > > That was nice simile. Personally I am not 'comfortable' with > anything. > > Like you, I too am in the process of Saadhana. So why is the Nirgun > > Brahm not God? > > > > Rgds > > > > , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > I think you should study the meaning of Nir=No Gunas=attributes > or > > > qualities. Your description again is Saguna for NirGuna cannot > have > > > any potentiality by description. > > > > > > The ego created the false concept of 'God'. I am not a Buddhist > and I > > > am not talking about sunyata. > > > > > > What you are trying to do is rationalise your beliefs, that you > are > > > so comfortable with..You are floating in the ocean trying to stir > a > > > pot of water..................You are a good foil as you are a > > > perfect example of programming and belief systems.........> > > > > > Namaste, > > Because NirGuna is just that indescribable in all but the > negative. 'God' is a creation of the ego....a fantasm of attributes > and so called love etc etc........Like a giant invisible human. > > The whole premise of your argument rests on your statement that you > can't separate white from milk...that may be so but in this case milk > and white are delusions and never ever happened. There is no manifest > to be separated from the manifest it is all in the mind only...> Namaste, An early question for the Rig---at least 8000 BC but really much much earlier. Notice the last verse as so------Whence this creation has arisen – perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not – the One who looks down on it, in the highest heaven, only He knows or perhaps He does not know. So the germinating question is early---that 'God' or Saguna doesn't 'Know'....that is the starting point of creation 'not knowing' one has to get beyond the knowing.......... The Creation Hymn of Rig Veda There was neither non-existence nor existence then. There was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond. What stirred? Where? In whose protection? Was there water, bottlemlessly deep? There was neither death nor immortality then. There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day. That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse. Other than that there was nothing beyond. Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning, with no distinguishing sign, all this was water. The life force that was covered with emptiness, that One arose through the power of heat. Desire came upon that One in the beginning, that was the first seed of mind. Poets seeking in their heart with wisdom found the bond of existence and non-existence. Their cord was extended across. Was there below? Was there above? There were seed-placers, there were powers. There was impulse beneath, there was giving forth above. Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it? Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation? The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe. Who then knows whence it has arisen? Whence this creation has arisen – perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not – the One who looks down on it, in the highest heaven, only He knows or perhaps He does not know. ---- ---------- Translation by Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty. From the Book " The Rig Veda - Anthology " Top | Hinduism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Excellent Reply, Thank you! , " Tony OClery " <aoclery > Whence this creation has arisen > – perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not – > the One who looks down on it, > in the highest heaven, only He knows > or perhaps He does not know. > > > ---- > > Translation by Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty. From the Book " The Rig Veda - > Anthology " > > Top | Hinduism > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hari Om !!!I shall be obliged to know the Numbers of " Mandala " and " Sukta " of the Creation Hym PranamsRajan Viswanathan2009/1/24 Tony OClery <aoclery , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > , " Satish Vijayan " > <satishvijayan@> wrote: > > > > I always believed this is not something that can be understood > through > > study. I too can transliterate nirguna into 'no attributes'. I just > > don't believe its an accurate representation. How do you explain > the > > universe with Nirgun (per your transliteration)? Its like trying to > > seperate white from milk. You cannot seperate the manifest from the > > unmanifest. > > > > That was nice simile. Personally I am not 'comfortable' with > anything. > > Like you, I too am in the process of Saadhana. So why is the Nirgun > > Brahm not God? > > > > Rgds > > > > , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > I think you should study the meaning of Nir=No Gunas=attributes > or > > > qualities. Your description again is Saguna for NirGuna cannot > have > > > any potentiality by description. > > > > > > The ego created the false concept of 'God'. I am not a Buddhist > and I > > > am not talking about sunyata. > > > > > > What you are trying to do is rationalise your beliefs, that you > are > > > so comfortable with..You are floating in the ocean trying to stir > a > > > pot of water..................You are a good foil as you are a > > > perfect example of programming and belief systems.........> > > > > > Namaste, > > Because NirGuna is just that indescribable in all but the > negative. 'God' is a creation of the ego....a fantasm of attributes > and so called love etc etc........Like a giant invisible human. > > The whole premise of your argument rests on your statement that you > can't separate white from milk...that may be so but in this case milk > and white are delusions and never ever happened. There is no manifest > to be separated from the manifest it is all in the mind only...> Namaste, An early question for the Rig---at least 8000 BC but really much much earlier. Notice the last verse as so------Whence this creation has arisen – perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not – the One who looks down on it, in the highest heaven, only He knows or perhaps He does not know. So the germinating question is early---that 'God' or Saguna doesn't 'Know'....that is the starting point of creation 'not knowing' one has to get beyond the knowing.......... The Creation Hymn of Rig Veda There was neither non-existence nor existence then. There was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond. What stirred? Where? In whose protection? Was there water, bottlemlessly deep? There was neither death nor immortality then. There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day. That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse. Other than that there was nothing beyond. Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning, with no distinguishing sign, all this was water. The life force that was covered with emptiness, that One arose through the power of heat. Desire came upon that One in the beginning, that was the first seed of mind. Poets seeking in their heart with wisdom found the bond of existence and non-existence. Their cord was extended across. Was there below? Was there above? There were seed-placers, there were powers. There was impulse beneath, there was giving forth above. Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it? Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation? The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe. Who then knows whence it has arisen? Whence this creation has arisen – perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not – the One who looks down on it, in the highest heaven, only He knows or perhaps He does not know. ------------------------- ---------- Translation by Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty. From the Book " The Rig Veda - Anthology " Top | Hinduism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 , " Er. Rajan Viswanathan " <viswanathan.rajan wrote: > > Hari Om !!! > > I shall be obliged to know the Numbers of " Mandala " and " Sukta " > > of the Creation Hym > > Pranams > Rajan Viswanathan > > 2009/1/24 Tony OClery <aoclery > > > <% 40>, > > " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> > > wrote: > > > > > > <% 40>, > > " Satish Vijayan " > > > <satishvijayan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I always believed this is not something that can be understood > > > through > > > > study. I too can transliterate nirguna into 'no attributes'. I > > just > > > > don't believe its an accurate representation. How do you explain > > > the > > > > universe with Nirgun (per your transliteration)? Its like trying > > to > > > > seperate white from milk. You cannot seperate the manifest from > > the > > > > unmanifest. > > > > > > > > That was nice simile. Personally I am not 'comfortable' with > > > anything. > > > > Like you, I too am in the process of Saadhana. So why is the > > Nirgun > > > > Brahm not God? > > > > > > > > Rgds > > > > > > > > <% 40>, > > " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > I think you should study the meaning of Nir=No Gunas=attributes > > > or > > > > > qualities. Your description again is Saguna for NirGuna cannot > > > have > > > > > any potentiality by description. > > > > > > > > > > The ego created the false concept of 'God'. I am not a Buddhist > > > and I > > > > > am not talking about sunyata. > > > > > > > > > > What you are trying to do is rationalise your beliefs, that you > > > are > > > > > so comfortable with..You are floating in the ocean trying to > > stir > > > a > > > > > pot of water..................You are a good foil as you are a > > > > > perfect example of programming and belief systems.........> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > Because NirGuna is just that indescribable in all but the > > > negative. 'God' is a creation of the ego....a fantasm of attributes > > > and so called love etc etc........Like a giant invisible human. > > > > > > The whole premise of your argument rests on your statement that you > > > can't separate white from milk...that may be so but in this case > > milk > > > and white are delusions and never ever happened. There is no > > manifest > > > to be separated from the manifest it is all in the mind only...> > > > > Namaste, > > > > An early question for the Rig---at least 8000 BC but really much much > > earlier. > > > > Notice the last verse as so------Whence this creation has arisen > > – perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not – > > the One who looks down on it, > > in the highest heaven, only He knows > > or perhaps He does not know. > > > > So the germinating question is early---that 'God' or Saguna > > doesn't 'Know'....that is the starting point of creation 'not > > knowing' one has to get beyond the knowing..........> > Namaste, That is a rhetorical question, if you can ask it then you should know the answer... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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