Guest guest Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN XI. Fate and Freewill P.47 Freewill and Destiny are ever existent. Destiny is the result of past action; it concerns the body. Let the body act as may suit it. Why are you concerned about it? Why do you pay attention to it? Freewill and Destiny last as long as the body lasts. But JNANA transcends both. The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance. Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and other factors. There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it. One is to enquire for whom is this Destiny? and discover that only the ego is bound by Destiny and not the Self and that the ego is non-existent. The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, by realising one's helplessness and saying all the time, 'Not I, but Thou Oh Lord' and giving up the sense of 'I' and 'mine', and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you. Complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny, whether you achieve this effacement through Self Enquiry or Bhakti Marga Paths. -oOo- Question: I have often wondered what Bhagavan meant by 'other factors' at the end of para 1. Has anybody any idea? Alan Gems is a small but comprehensive collection of the Maharshi's utterances by A.Deveraj Mudaliar, author of Day by Day with Bhagavan. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 ramesh chivukula wrote: Wonderful message .. Indeed in the Gita , Lord Krishna himself says , that of all kinds of worship , surrendering oneself to HIM is the highest ! When we slowly start losing the sense of doership , strangely enough , not only do we feel free , but also our "actions" seem to be in the right direction. It appears that all we need to do is to patiently expend our remnant karma ( The Great Way is easy for one who has no preferences ) ; while continuing to pursue our spiritual process in a quiet way ! Pranams Ramesh it is all in the mind, anyway.... mind may crawl mind may aspire mind may renounce and mind may desire. mind may be seeing and mind may be blind mind can be seeking, and mind can find. . . mind plays it's games. but i don't mind. never mind, respectfully yosy --- On Mon, 3/16/09, alanadamsjacobs (AT) (DOT) co.uk <alanadamsjacobs (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: alanadamsjacobs (AT) (DOT) co.uk <alanadamsjacobs (AT) (DOT) co.uk> From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Monday, March 16, 2009, 12:57 PM From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN V. SURRENDER P.22 From- Gems From Bhagavan It is asked Why is all this creation so full of sorrow and evil? All one can say is it is God's will which is inscrutable. No motive can be attributed to that power, no desire, no end can be affirmed of that infinite, all-wise, and all powerful Being. God is untouched by activities which take place in His presence. There is no meaning in attributing responsibility and motive to the One before it became many. But God's will for the prescribed course of events is a good solution for the vexed question of free will. If the mind is worried over what befalls us or what has been committed or omitted by us, it is wise to give up the sense of responsibility and free will by regarding ourselves as the ordained instruments of the all-wise and the all-powerful to do and suffer as he pleases. Then he bears all the burden and gives us peace. -oOo- Gems is a small collection of the Maharshi's utterances by A.Deveraj Mudaliar, author of Day by Day with Bhagavan. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 -Dear friends, No one responded to my question as to what Sri Bhagavan may have meant by other factors at the end of para 1. Subsequently the thought occurred to me that it may be he meant the Grace which can alter the preordained Destiny under certain conditions such as the presence of the Guru ,i.e. sannidhi [see padmalai 7-8]a presence in the vicinity of enlightened beings that took care of all the problems that were brought to their attention etc. Any more ideas? Regards to all, Alan -- In , alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > > > From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN > > XI. Fate and Freewill > > P.47 > > Freewill and Destiny are ever existent. > Destiny is the result of past action; > it concerns the body. > Let the body act as may suit it. > Why are you concerned about it? > Why do you pay attention to it? > Freewill and Destiny last as long as the body lasts. > But JNANA transcends both. > The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance. > Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and other factors. > > There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it. > One is to enquire for whom is this Destiny? and discover that only the ego is bound by Destiny and not the Self and that the ego is non-existent. > > The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, > by realising one's helplessness and saying all the time, > 'Not I, but Thou Oh Lord' > and giving up the sense of 'I' and 'mine', > and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you. > > Complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny, > whether you achieve this effacement through Self Enquiry or Bhakti Marga Paths. > > -oOo- > > Question: I have often wondered what Bhagavan meant by 'other factors' at the end of para 1. Has anybody any idea? > > Alan > > Gems is a small but comprehensive collection of the Maharshi's utterances by A.Deveraj Mudaliar, author of Day by Day with Bhagavan. . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Dear Alan , The other " factors " - could he have meant the other external collective karmic consciousness which also seem to have an effect on our destiny ? In any case the " GRACE " is never absent ! It is our capacity to draw from the ever present source of healing energy which changes from time to time ? Is it a good idea not to worry about our preordained destiny whatever it may be - understanding that this Destiny works only on the physical level ? One Zen Master put it - LET IT SETTLE ITSELF ! In madness Ramesh --- On Tue, 3/17/09, alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 11:53 AM -Dear friends,No one responded to my question as to what Sri Bhagavan may have meant by other factors at the end of para 1. Subsequently the thought occurred to me that it may be he meant the Grace which can alter the preordained Destiny under certain conditions such as the presence of the Guru ,i.e. sannidhi [see padmalai 7-8]a presence in the vicinity of enlightened beings that took care of all the problems that were brought to their attention etc. Any more ideas?Regards to all,Alan -- In , alanadamsjacobs@ ... wrote:>> > > From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN> > XI. Fate and Freewill > > P.47> > Freewill and Destiny are ever existent.> Destiny is the result of past action;> it concerns the body.> Let the body act as may suit it.> Why are you concerned about it?> Why do you pay attention to it?> Freewill and Destiny last as long as the body lasts.> But JNANA transcends both.> The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance. > Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and other factors.> > There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it.> One is to enquire for whom is this Destiny? and discover that only the ego is bound by Destiny and not the Self and that the ego is non-existent.> > The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord,> by realising one's helplessness and saying all the time,> 'Not I, but Thou Oh Lord'> and giving up the sense of 'I' and 'mine', > and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you.> > Complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny,> whether you achieve this effacement through Self Enquiry or Bhakti Marga Paths.> > -oOo-> > Question: I have often wondered what Bhagavan meant by 'other factors' at the end of para 1. Has anybody any idea? > > Alan > > Gems is a small but comprehensive collection of the Maharshi's utterances by A.Deveraj Mudaliar, author of Day by Day with Bhagavan. .> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 , " alan jacobs " <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > -Dear friends, > > No one responded to my question as to what Sri Bhagavan may have meant by other factors at the end of para 1. Subsequently the thought occurred to me that it may be he meant the Grace which can alter the preordained Destiny under certain conditions such as the presence of the Guru ,i.e. sannidhi [see padmalai 7-8]a presence in the vicinity of enlightened beings that took care of all the problems that were brought to their attention etc. Any more ideas? > > Regards to all, > > Alan > > Dr.Raju wrote: >Dear Alan, I feel that, because masters do not identify with the body-mind complex and they do not superimpose events of this complex on them and destiny is only for the body-mind complex,so nonidentity with body-mind complex amounts to conquering the destiny.Events continue to happen to that complex but sage is not affected because he is a just witness to those events. > > -- In , alanadamsjacobs@ wrote: > > > > > > > > From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN > > > > XI. Fate and Freewill > > > > P.47 > > > > Freewill and Destiny are ever existent. > > Destiny is the result of past action; > > it concerns the body. > > Let the body act as may suit it. > > Why are you concerned about it? > > Why do you pay attention to it? > > Freewill and Destiny last as long as the body lasts. > > But JNANA transcends both. > > The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance. > > Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and other factors. > > > > There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it. > > One is to enquire for whom is this Destiny? and discover that only the ego is bound by Destiny and not the Self and that the ego is non-existent. > > > > The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, > > by realising one's helplessness and saying all the time, > > 'Not I, but Thou Oh Lord' > > and giving up the sense of 'I' and 'mine', > > and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you. > > > > Complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny, > > whether you achieve this effacement through Self Enquiry or Bhakti Marga Paths. > > > > -oOo- > > > > Question: I have often wondered what Bhagavan meant by 'other factors' at the end of para 1. Has anybody any idea? > > > > Alan > > > > Gems is a small but comprehensive collection of the Maharshi's utterances by A.Deveraj Mudaliar, author of Day by Day with Bhagavan. . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Dear Ramesh, An interesting idea which never occurred to me. It could well be.Thanks, All regards, Yours in Bhagavan, Alan --- On Tue, 17/3/09, ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote: ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chivRe: Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Date: Tuesday, 17 March, 2009, 6:53 AM Dear Alan , The other " factors " - could he have meant the other external collective karmic consciousness which also seem to have an effect on our destiny ? In any case the " GRACE " is never absent ! It is our capacity to draw from the ever present source of healing energy which changes from time to time ? Is it a good idea not to worry about our preordained destiny whatever it may be - understanding that this Destiny works only on the physical level ? One Zen Master put it - LET IT SETTLE ITSELF ! In madness Ramesh --- On Tue, 3/17/09, alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> wrote: alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN'Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 11:53 AM -Dear friends,No one responded to my question as to what Sri Bhagavan may have meant by other factors at the end of para 1. Subsequently the thought occurred to me that it may be he meant the Grace which can alter the preordained Destiny under certain conditions such as the presence of the Guru ,i.e. sannidhi [see padmalai 7-8]a presence in the vicinity of enlightened beings that took care of all the problems that were brought to their attention etc. Any more ideas?Regards to all,Alan -- In , alanadamsjacobs@ ... wrote:>> > > From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN> > XI. Fate and Freewill > > P.47> > Freewill and Destiny are ever existent.> Destiny is the result of past action;> it concerns the body.> Let the body act as may suit it.> Why are you concerned about it?> Why do you pay attention to it?> Freewill and Destiny last as long as the body lasts.> But JNANA transcends both.> The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance. > Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and other factors.> > There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it.> One is to enquire for whom is this Destiny? and discover that only the ego is bound by Destiny and not the Self and that the ego is non-existent.> > The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord,> by realising one's helplessness and saying all the time,> 'Not I, but Thou Oh Lord'> and giving up the sense of 'I' and 'mine', > and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you.> > Complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny,> whether you achieve this effacement through Self Enquiry or Bhakti Marga Paths.> > -oOo-> > Question: I have often wondered what Bhagavan meant by 'other factors' at the end of para 1. Has anybody any idea? > > Alan > > Gems is a small but comprehensive collection of the Maharshi's utterances by A.Deveraj Mudaliar, author of Day by Day with Bhagavan. .> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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