Guest guest Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Dear Andreas, A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry? Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from 1940-1944 . P.28-29 Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life? ............... Bhagavan: Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin. It causes its effect and shapes the destiny. Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results. Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects. First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions. Free-will should be exercised judiciously. When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure. Mind goes the way of destiny. Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny. Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will. But,the present fate is due to past actions. The actions are already over and done with. How are you going to erase them now? ......Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem. Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'. Then there will be no problem. In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more. Fate and free-will become null and void. One is established in a state which transcends them. --- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 wrote: andreas farsatis <born010405 AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AM Fate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can't be done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin cause is the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill, fate can be defeated. Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. . Namaste and warm regards Sandoshan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Let us strive to attune ourselves to the Divine will ..then pehaps we will cease to bother about destiny and free will ..Sage Ramakrishna once said - free will is limited like the movement of the calf tied by a strong rope to an iron post ..Of what big use is such a limited free will ? It only keeps us ensnared in Maya ! Love ramesh --- On Fri, 3/20/09, alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs fate and free will cont'd Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 11:29 AM Dear Andreas,A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry?Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from 1940-1944 .P.28-29Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?............ ..Bhagavan:Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.It causes its effect and shapes the destiny.Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.Free-will should be exercised judiciously.When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.Mind goes the way of destiny.Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will. But,the present fate is due to past actions.The actions are already over and done with.How are you going to erase them now?.....Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.Then there will be no problem.In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.Fate and free-will become null and void.One is established in a state which transcends them.--- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote:andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de>AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN'Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AMFate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can'tbe done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin causeis the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill,fate can be defeated.Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. .Namaste and warm regardsSandoshan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote: > > Let us strive to attune ourselves to the Divine will ..then pehaps we will cease to bother > about destiny and free will ..Sage Ramakrishna once said - free will is limited like > the movement of the calf tied by a strong rope to an iron post ..Of what big use > is such a limited free will ? It only keeps us ensnared in Maya ! > > Love > > ramesh > > > --- On Fri, 3/20/09, alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > > alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs > fate and free will cont'd > > Friday, March 20, 2009, 11:29 AM Dear Andreas, > > A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry? > > Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from 1940-1944 . > > P.28-29 > > Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life? > > ............ .. > > Bhagavan: > > Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin. > > It causes its effect and shapes the destiny. > > Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results. > > Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects. > > First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions. > > Free-will should be exercised judiciously. > > When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure. > > Mind goes the way of destiny. > > Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny. > > Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will. > > But,the present fate is due to past actions. > > The actions are already over and done with. > > How are you going to erase them now? > > .....Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem. > > Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'. > > Then there will be no problem. > > In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more. > > Fate and free-will become null and void. > > One is established in a state which transcends them. > > > --- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote: > > andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> > AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' > > Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AM > > Fate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can't > be done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin cause > is the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill, > fate can be defeated. > Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. . > > Namaste and warm regards > > Sandoshan > >Dr.Raju wrote: Dear Sandoshan, Enquiring into the nature of the entity which wants to cultivate free will is self-enquiry. >Dr.Raju wrote: Dear Ramesh, Your post is the best i ever read on free will.Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Dear Raju ji Thanks .. The interaction with the sangha member is indeed very enlightening .. As they say proof of the pudding is in the eating .. How far we are able to put in practice our good thoughts and intentions is the thing that matters !! As to myself am a fledgeling .. still groping in the dark circles of samsara , but with the firm belief that God's grace is ever present and as i said earlier HE alone knows when the time is ripe to attain the state of bliss we are all seeking!! Koti Pranams ramesh --- On Fri, 3/20/09, drrajunsp <drrajunsp wrote: drrajunsp <drrajunsp Re: fate and free will cont'd Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 2:37 PM , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv@ ...> wrote:>> Let us strive to attune ourselves to the Divine will ..then pehaps we will cease to bother> about destiny and free will ..Sage Ramakrishna once said - free will is limited like > the movement of the calf tied by a strong rope to an iron post ..Of what big use> is such a limited free will ? It only keeps us ensnared in Maya !> > Love> > ramesh> > > --- On Fri, 3/20/09, alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:> > > alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...>> fate and free will cont'd> > Friday, March 20, 2009, 11:29 AM> > > > > > > Dear Andreas,> > A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry?> > Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from 1940-1944 .> > P.28-29> > Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?> > ............ ..> > Bhagavan:> > Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.> > It causes its effect and shapes the destiny.> > Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.> > Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.> > First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.> > Free-will should be exercised judiciously.> > When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.> > Mind goes the way of destiny.> > Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.> > Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will. > > But,the present fate is due to past actions.> > The actions are already over and done with.> > How are you going to erase them now?> > .....Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.> > Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.> > Then there will be no problem.> > In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.> > Fate and free-will become null and void.> > One is established in a state which transcends them.> > > --- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405@ . de> wrote:> > andreas farsatis <born010405@ . de>> AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN'> > Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AM> > Fate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can't> be done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin cause> is the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill,> fate can be defeated.> Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. .> > Namaste and warm regards> > Sandoshan>>Dr.Raju wrote:Dear Sandoshan,Enquiring into the nature of the entity which wants to cultivate free will is self-enquiry.>Dr.Raju wrote: Dear Ramesh,Your post is the best i ever read on free will.Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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