From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd

[Guest guest]

Dear Andreas,

 

A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often

missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry?

 

Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana

Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at

Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from

1940-1944 .

 

P.28-29

 

Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?

 

...............

 

Bhagavan:

 

Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.

 

It causes its effect and shapes the destiny.

 

Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.

 

Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.

 

First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.

 

Free-will should be exercised judiciously.

 

When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.

 

Mind goes the way of destiny.

 

Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.

 

Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered

by the force of free will.

 

But,the present fate is due to past actions.

 

The actions are already over and done with.

 

How are you going to erase them now?

 

......Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.

 

Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.

 

Then there will be no problem.

 

In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.

 

Fate and free-will become null and void.

 

One is established in a state which transcends them.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 wrote:

 

 

andreas farsatis <born010405

AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN'

 

Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AM

 

 

Fate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can't

be done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin cause

is the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill,

fate can be defeated.

Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. .

 

Namaste and warm regards

 

Sandoshan

[Guest guest]

Dear Alan and Sangha Friends:

 

An early morning observation:-)

I was just scanning the recent messages

and noticed this one. As I read it I could not

help but wonder if the excerpt you (Alan) just posted,

now way, way below relates to your question posed

recently about what Bhagavan may have meant

when he referred to " other factors " in the

first quote below...

 

I have to tell you that when I scrolled down in my

email box to find this quote, I clicked on it in my

first try! BINGO, I say!!! Then, I have to tell you

that while sitting here at my desk, I opened a wireless

phone bill to find that my 12 year old son, despite

being told not to, had downloaded some music

and ringtones, adding to my already overpriced

bill for the cellphones we all carry. Of course,

downloads are supposed to be blocked, but I had

bought him a new phone because he lost the other one,

and the block was lifted (unknown to me) when the

new phone was purchased. And to tell one you all one

more thing in the link of events...my thoughts

were anything but pure:-( And so it goes...

I fretted a bit, yelled at him, I admit, and got

over it, now quietly re-established in a state

of complete surrender, until the next time :-0

 

Sending some morning love to you all,

and laughing at my own teeter-tottering,

but still firmly established In His Service,

 

Radhe

 

Where else could I be? Hare Krishna!!!

 

PS My son's actions, of course, will have

their own effects ;-)

 

 

From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN

>

> XI. Fate and Freewill

>

> P.47

>

> Freewill and Destiny are ever existent.

> Destiny is the result of past action;

> it concerns the body.

> Let the body act as may suit it.

> Why are you concerned about it?

> Why do you pay attention to it?

> Freewill and Destiny last as long as the body lasts.

> But JNANA transcends both.

> The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance.

> Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine

> will and other factors.

 

/message/48316

 

 

 

------------------

 

Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book

'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published

by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at

Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan

covering the period from 1940-1944 .

 

P.28-29

 

Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?

 

...............

 

Bhagavan:

 

Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.

 

It causes its effect and shapes the destiny.

 

Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.

 

Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.

 

First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.

 

Free-will should be exercised judiciously.

 

When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.

 

Mind goes the way of destiny.

 

Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.

 

Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be

altered by the force of free will.

 

But,the present fate is due to past actions.

 

The actions are already over and done with.

 

How are you going to erase them now?

 

......Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.

 

Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.

 

Then there will be no problem.

 

In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.

 

Fate and free-will become null and void.

 

One is established in a state which transcends them.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Radhe-ji

 

thank you for letting all of us know what is happening in your daily life - what is for michael - each happening! - our lesson to learn. It shows us where we have not yet understood properly.

Do not worry - its fine like this....

Keeping trying and give the best possible - thats it.

I try it like this:

 

let it pass - let it go

LET IT BE - acceptance

 

BE STILL

bes still and know that I AM WHO I AM

 

I AM

 

fullpoint

 

 

all the best...

 

michael

[Guest guest]

Dear Radhe ,

 

To be able to laugh away our trivial concerns is a gift ..Another small tip ..

When something unpleasant happens and after the lesson learnt .. we need to

shed the baggage and forget all about it .. yes we do have the right to forgive ourselves!

Hope am making some sense

 

Pranams

 

ramesh

 

--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Radhe <shaantih wrote:

Radhe <shaantihRe: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 6:54 PM

 

 

Dear Alan and Sangha Friends:An early morning observation: -)I was just scanning the recent messagesand noticed this one. As I read it I could nothelp but wonder if the excerpt you (Alan) just posted,now way, way below relates to your question posedrecently about what Bhagavan may have meantwhen he referred to "other factors" in thefirst quote below...I have to tell you that when I scrolled down in myemail box to find this quote, I clicked on it in myfirst try! BINGO, I say!!! Then, I have to tell youthat while sitting here at my desk, I opened a wirelessphone bill to find that my 12 year old son, despitebeing told not to, had downloaded some musicand ringtones, adding to my already overpricedbill for the cellphones we all carry. Of course,downloads are supposed to be blocked, but I hadbought him a new phone because he lost the other one,and the block was lifted

(unknown to me) when thenew phone was purchased. And to tell one you all onemore thing in the link of events...my thoughtswere anything but pure:-( And so it goes...I fretted a bit, yelled at him, I admit, and gotover it, now quietly re-established in a stateof complete surrender, until the next time :-0Sending some morning love to you all,and laughing at my own teeter-tottering,but still firmly established In His Service,RadheWhere else could I be? Hare Krishna!!!PS My son's actions, of course, will havetheir own effects ;-)From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN>> XI. Fate and Freewill>> P.47>> Freewill and Destiny are ever existent.> Destiny is the result of past action;> it concerns the body.> Let the body act as may suit it.> Why are you concerned about it?> Why do you pay attention to it?> Freewill and

Destiny last as long as the body lasts.> But JNANA transcends both.> The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance.> Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine > will and other factors.http://groups. / group/HarshaSats angh/message/ 48316------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' publishedby Bangalore Centre for learning but available atRamnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajancovering the period from 1940-1944 .P.28-29Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?............ ..Bhagavan:Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.It causes its effect and shapes the

destiny.Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.Free-will should be exercised judiciously.When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.Mind goes the way of destiny.Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will.But,the present fate is due to past actions.The actions are already over and done with.How are you going to erase them now?.....Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.Then there will be no problem.In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.Fate and free-will become null and

void.One is established in a state which transcends them.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps what it shows us, dear Michaelji, is that it

is good to laugh :-) And to honor the truth that we each

do have daily lives...we are not tucked away in some

cave somewhere...and that it is OK that we act and

react to life events with the BMI rocking to the music

(Hi Rameshji...I chose the FM, by the way;-) To think

that Surrender means complete outer silence, to me, is its

own illusion, and the reason I shared was to illustrate

that thought. Will the person on this list who never

has a reaction to the outer world, please stand up?

 

And take a bow!!!

 

Still laughing,

 

Rockin' Radhe

 

PS OK OK, guys, you can calm down now..

I am just pulling your spiritual legs!!!

 

PPS Happy Spring!!!

 

PPSS And most important...

"I am the spring among the seasons." ( BG10.35)

 

 

 

 

 

-

Michael Bindel

Friday, March 20, 2009 10:26 AM

Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd

 

 

 

Namaste Radhe-ji

 

thank you for letting all of us know what is happening in your daily life - what is for michael - each happening! - our lesson to learn. It shows us where we have not yet understood properly.

Do not worry - its fine like this....

Keeping trying and give the best possible - thats it.

I try it like this:

 

let it pass - let it go

LET IT BE - acceptance

 

BE STILL

bes still and know that I AM WHO I AM

 

I AM

 

fullpoint

 

 

all the best...

 

michael

 

 

 

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.21/2014 - Release 03/20/09 06:59:00

[Guest guest]

Dear Radhe

 

again tku!

 

what is needed is letting grow our seventh sense

like our dear friend YOSSI called humour

with this sense everything is much easier to tackle

without oh gosh how difficult everything gets

 

a good way to tackle our daily life is remembering Sadgurus Sri Ramana Maharshi words

 

if you travel by train where do you let your baggage?

......

do the same with your lifes challenges

-----

 

meaning complete surrender

 

 

michael

 

 

-

Radhe

Friday, March 20, 2009 6:33 PM

Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd

 

 

 

Perhaps what it shows us, dear Michaelji, is that it

is good to laugh :-) And to honor the truth that we each

do have daily lives...we are not tucked away in some

cave somewhere...and that it is OK that we act and

react to life events with the BMI rocking to the music

(Hi Rameshji...I chose the FM, by the way;-) To think

that Surrender means complete outer silence, to me, is its

own illusion, and the reason I shared was to illustrate

that thought. Will the person on this list who never

has a reaction to the outer world, please stand up?

 

And take a bow!!!

 

Still laughing,

 

Rockin' Radhe

 

PS OK OK, guys, you can calm down now..

I am just pulling your spiritual legs!!!

 

PPS Happy Spring!!!

 

PPSS And most important...

"I am the spring among the seasons." ( BG10.35)

 

 

 

 

 

-

Michael Bindel

Friday, March 20, 2009 10:26 AM

Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd

 

 

 

Namaste Radhe-ji

 

thank you for letting all of us know what is happening in your daily life - what is for michael - each happening! - our lesson to learn. It shows us where we have not yet understood properly.

Do not worry - its fine like this....

Keeping trying and give the best possible - thats it.

I try it like this:

 

let it pass - let it go

LET IT BE - acceptance

 

BE STILL

bes still and know that I AM WHO I AM

 

I AM

 

fullpoint

 

 

all the best...

 

michael

 

 

 

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.21/2014 - Release 03/20/09 06:59:00

 

 

 

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.21/2014 - Release 03/20/09 06:59:00

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ramesh

 

what a joy

 

 

michael

 

 

 

-

ramesh chivukula

Friday, March 20, 2009 4:58 PM

Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Radhe ,

 

To be able to laugh away our trivial concerns is a gift ..Another small tip ..

When something unpleasant happens and after the lesson learnt .. we need to

shed the baggage and forget all about it .. yes we do have the right to forgive ourselves!

Hope am making some sense

 

Pranams

 

ramesh

 

--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Radhe <shaantih (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

Radhe <shaantih (AT) comcast (DOT) net>Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 6:54 PM

 

 

Dear Alan and Sangha Friends:An early morning observation: -)I was just scanning the recent messagesand noticed this one. As I read it I could nothelp but wonder if the excerpt you (Alan) just posted,now way, way below relates to your question posedrecently about what Bhagavan may have meantwhen he referred to "other factors" in thefirst quote below...I have to tell you that when I scrolled down in myemail box to find this quote, I clicked on it in myfirst try! BINGO, I say!!! Then, I have to tell youthat while sitting here at my desk, I opened a wirelessphone bill to find that my 12 year old son, despitebeing told not to, had downloaded some musicand ringtones, adding to my already overpricedbill for the cellphones we all carry. Of course,downloads are supposed to be blocked, but I hadbought him a new phone because he lost the other one,and the block was lifted (unknown to me) when thenew phone was purchased. And to tell one you all onemore thing in the link of events...my thoughtswere anything but pure:-( And so it goes...I fretted a bit, yelled at him, I admit, and gotover it, now quietly re-established in a stateof complete surrender, until the next time :-0Sending some morning love to you all,and laughing at my own teeter-tottering,but still firmly established In His Service,RadheWhere else could I be? Hare Krishna!!!PS My son's actions, of course, will havetheir own effects ;-)From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN>> XI. Fate and Freewill>> P.47>> Freewill and Destiny are ever existent.> Destiny is the result of past action;> it concerns the body.> Let the body act as may suit it.> Why are you concerned about it?> Why do you pay attention to it?> Freewill and Destiny last as long as the body lasts.> But JNANA transcends both.> The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance.> Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine > will and other factors.http://groups. / group/HarshaSats angh/message/ 48316------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' publishedby Bangalore Centre for learning but available atRamnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajancovering the period from 1940-1944 .P.28-29Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?............ ..Bhagavan:Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.It causes its effect and shapes the destiny.Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.Free-will should be exercised judiciously.When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.Mind goes the way of destiny.Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will.But,the present fate is due to past actions.The actions are already over and done with.How are you going to erase them now?.....Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.Then there will be no problem.In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.Fate and free-will become null and void.One is established in a state which transcends them.

 

 

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.20/2013 - Release 03/19/09 19:03:00

[Guest guest]

Dear Radhe,

 

It's very good to hear from you again. I feel the interesting events that you describe were all most probably inevitatable as prescribed in the preordained karma for you and your son. By other factors I now think Bhagavan is suggesting that Grace which has the power to alter the preordained Destiny and occaisionally acts.

 

.. All love, yours in Bhagavan,

 

Alan

Radhe <shaantihRe: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd Date: Friday, 20 March, 2009, 1:24 PM

 

 

Dear Alan and Sangha Friends:An early morning observation: -)I was just scanning the recent messagesand noticed this one. As I read it I could nothelp but wonder if the excerpt you (Alan) just posted,now way, way below relates to your question posedrecently about what Bhagavan may have meantwhen he referred to "other factors" in thefirst quote below...I have to tell you that when I scrolled down in myemail box to find this quote, I clicked on it in myfirst try! BINGO, I say!!! Then, I have to tell youthat while sitting here at my desk, I opened a wirelessphone bill to find that my 12 year old son, despitebeing told not to, had downloaded some musicand ringtones, adding to my already overpricedbill for the cellphones we all carry. Of course,downloads are supposed to be blocked, but I hadbought him a new phone because he lost the other one,and the block was lifted

(unknown to me) when thenew phone was purchased. And to tell one you all onemore thing in the link of events...my thoughtswere anything but pure:-( And so it goes...I fretted a bit, yelled at him, I admit, and gotover it, now quietly re-established in a stateof complete surrender, until the next time :-0Sending some morning love to you all,and laughing at my own teeter-tottering,but still firmly established In His Service,RadheWhere else could I be? Hare Krishna!!!PS My son's actions, of course, will havetheir own effects ;-)From GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN>> XI. Fate and Freewill>> P.47>> Freewill and Destiny are ever existent.> Destiny is the result of past action;> it concerns the body.> Let the body act as may suit it.> Why are you concerned about it?> Why do you pay attention to it?> Freewill and

Destiny last as long as the body lasts.> But JNANA transcends both.> The Self is beyond Knowledge and Ignorance.> Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine > will and other factors.http://groups. / group/HarshaSats angh/message/ 48316------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' publishedby Bangalore Centre for learning but available atRamnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajancovering the period from 1940-1944 .P.28-29Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?............ ..Bhagavan:Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.It causes its effect and shapes the

destiny.Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.Free-will should be exercised judiciously.When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.Mind goes the way of destiny.Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will.But,the present fate is due to past actions.The actions are already over and done with.How are you going to erase them now?.....Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.Then there will be no problem.In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.Fate and free-will become null and

void.One is established in a state which transcends them.

[Guest guest]

Dear Radheji ,

 

First a good laugh ha ha ha .. Swami Yogananda once said a sad saint is a sorry saint !

Sense of humor keeps us in good health too !

 

Regarding " reaction " to the outside world .. think carefully .. To a situation today which much similar to the one perhaps a decade ago , has the intensity of reaction not changed ?

Have you not tried "mock " anger ? When everyone around you is talking about balance sheets and bottomlines ; have you not detached yourself , kept a serious stoic face on the outside - but internally swaying to the eternal dance of shiva ?? Am sure we do react .. but start reacting less and less .. and at some time ..keep wondering at all HIS leela !

 

Pray , what say have we ? Except sing , dance , laugh , love and enjoy - All at HIS expense !

 

Amen !

 

ramesh

--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Radhe <shaantih wrote:

Radhe <shaantihRe: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 11:03 PM

 

 

 

Perhaps what it shows us, dear Michaelji, is that it

is good to laugh :-) And to honor the truth that we each

do have daily lives...we are not tucked away in some

cave somewhere... and that it is OK that we act and

react to life events with the BMI rocking to the music

[Guest guest]

Dear Radheji ,

 

First a good laugh ha ha ha .. Swami Yogananda once said a sad saint is a sorry saint !

Sense of humor keeps us in good health too !

 

Regarding " reaction " to the outside world .. think carefully .. To a situation today which much similar to the one perhaps a decade ago , has the intensity of reaction not changed ?

Have you not tried "mock " anger ? When everyone around you is talking about balance sheets and bottomlines ; have you not detached yourself , kept a serious stoic face on the outside - but internally swaying to the eternal dance of shiva ?? Am sure we do react .. but start reacting less and less .. and at some time ..keep just wondering at all HIS leela !

 

Pray , what say have we ? Except sing , dance , laugh , love and enjoy - All at HIS expense !

 

Amen !

 

ramesh

--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Radhe <shaantih wrote:

Radhe <shaantihRe: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 11:03 PM

 

 

 

Perhaps what it shows us, dear Michaelji, is that it

is good to laugh :-) And to honor the truth that we each

do have daily lives...we are not tucked away in some

cave somewhere... and that it is OK that we act and

react to life events with the BMI rocking to the music

(Hi Rameshji...I chose the FM, by the way;-) To think

that Surrender means complete outer silence, to me, is its

own illusion, and the reason I shared was to illustrate

that thought. Will the person on this list who never

has a reaction to the outer world, please stand up?

 

And take a bow!!!

 

Still laughing,

 

Rockin' Radhe

 

PS OK OK, guys, you can calm down now..

I am just pulling your spiritual legs!!!

 

PPS Happy Spring!!!

 

PPSS And most important...

"I am the spring among the seasons." ( BG10.35)

 

 

 

 

 

-

Michael Bindel

 

Friday, March 20, 2009 10:26 AM

Re: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Fate and Free Will cont'd

 

 

 

Namaste Radhe-ji

 

thank you for letting all of us know what is happening in your daily life - what is for michael - each happening! - our lesson to learn. It shows us where we have not yet understood properly.

Do not worry - its fine like this....

Keeping trying and give the best possible - thats it.

I try it like this:

 

let it pass - let it go

LET IT BE - acceptance

 

BE STILL

bes still and know that I AM WHO I AM

 

I AM

 

fullpoint

 

 

all the best...

 

michael

 

 

 

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.21/2014 - Release 03/20/09 06:59:00