Guest guest Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Yes dear AlanI quiet agree with your point that cultivating freewill isntnecessarely Self Enquiry, but I sense that Self Enquiryis the perfect reason to cultivate freewill.warm regardsSandoshan--- alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs schrieb am Fr, 20.3.2009:Von: alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobsBetreff: fate and free will cont'dAn: Datum: Freitag, 20. März 2009, 6:59 Dear Andreas, A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry? Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from 1940-1944 . P.28-29 Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life? ............. .. Bhagavan: Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin. It causes its effect and shapes the destiny. Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results. Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects. First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions. Free-will should be exercised judiciously. When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure. Mind goes the way of destiny. Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny. Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will. But,the present fate is due to past actions. The actions are already over and done with. How are you going to erase them now? ......Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem. Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'. Then there will be no problem. In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more. Fate and free-will become null and void. One is established in a state which transcends them. --- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote: andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AM Fate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can't be done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin cause is the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill, fate can be defeated. Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. . Namaste and warm regards Sandoshan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Dear Andreas, The closest we can get to this subtle point is when Bhagavan says that 'the only freedom we have is to turn inwards.' That implies Self Enquiry. Thanks for the comment, Yours in Him, Alan --- On Fri, 20/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 wrote: andreas farsatis <born010405AW: fate and free will cont'd Date: Friday, 20 March, 2009, 10:29 AM Yes dear AlanI quiet agree with your point that cultivating freewill isntnecessarely Self Enquiry, but I sense that Self Enquiryis the perfect reason to cultivate freewill.warm regardsSandoshan--- alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> schrieb am Fr, 20.3.2009: Von: alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk>Betreff: fate and free will cont'dAn: Datum: Freitag, 20. März 2009, 6:59 Dear Andreas,A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry?Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from 1940-1944 .P.28-29Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?............ ..Bhagavan:Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.It causes its effect and shapes the destiny.Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.Free-will should be exercised judiciously.When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.Mind goes the way of destiny.Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will. But,the present fate is due to past actions.The actions are already over and done with.How are you going to erase them now?.....Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.Then there will be no problem.In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.Fate and free-will become null and void.One is established in a state which transcends them.--- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote:andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de>AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN'Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AMFate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can'tbe done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin causeis the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill,fate can be defeated.Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. .Namaste and warm regardsSandoshan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Friends: I'm not trying to bring controversy in for its own sake. But, I question the very idea of 'will', much less 'free will'. Consider the following facts. Hold your breath as long as you can. Is gulping for air again willed? Watch the thoughts at work. Can you will the next one? Do you will your dreams? The instant of falling asleep? The list could go on and on. And I think that is good news for students of Advaita. Contemplating this fact deeply brings one to the idea of total surrender. Nothing works! Like Buddha's realization. Namaste, Sam From: born010405Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:29:42 +0000AW: fate and free will cont'd Yes dear AlanI quiet agree with your point that cultivating freewill isntnecessarely Self Enquiry, but I sense that Self Enquiryis the perfect reason to cultivate freewill.warm regardsSandoshan--- alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs (AT) (DOT) co.uk> schrieb am Fr, 20.3.2009:Von: alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs (AT) (DOT) co.uk>Betreff: fate and free will cont'dAn: Datum: Freitag, 20. März 2009, 6:59 Dear Andreas, A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry? Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from 1940-1944 . P.28-29 Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life? ............. .. Bhagavan: Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin. It causes its effect and shapes the destiny. Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results. Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects. First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions. Free-will should be exercised judiciously. When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure. Mind goes the way of destiny. Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny. Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will. But,the present fate is due to past actions. The actions are already over and done with. How are you going to erase them now? ......Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem. Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'. Then there will be no problem. In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more. Fate and free-will become null and void. One is established in a state which transcends them. --- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote: andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN' Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AM Fate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can't be done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin cause is the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill, fate can be defeated. Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. . Namaste and warm regards Sandoshan Meer dan chatten alleen. Check nu de nieuwe Windows Live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Dear Sam wonderful to "hear" from you again..... "perfect" as soon as we realize that there is indeed no "free will" the way is open to complete surrender accepting this with all its difficulties - thats the lesson we have to accept.... in ITS Grace michael P.S. its all connected with the fact that we have to realize that there is no personality, no "i" - only SELF agreed? - Sam Pasiencier Friday, March 20, 2009 6:10 PM RE: AW: fate and free will cont'd Friends: I'm not trying to bring controversy in for its own sake. But, I question the very idea of 'will', much less 'free will'. Consider the following facts. Hold your breath as long as you can. Is gulping for air again willed? Watch the thoughts at work. Can you will the next one? Do you will your dreams? The instant of falling asleep? The list could go on and on. And I think that is good news for students of Advaita. Contemplating this fact deeply brings one to the idea of total surrender. Nothing works! Like Buddha's realization. Namaste, Sam From: born010405 (AT) (DOT) deDate: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:29:42 +0000AW: fate and free will cont'd Yes dear AlanI quiet agree with your point that cultivating freewill isntnecessarely Self Enquiry, but I sense that Self Enquiryis the perfect reason to cultivate freewill.warm regardsSandoshan--- alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs (AT) (DOT) co.uk> schrieb am Fr, 20.3.2009: Von: alan jacobs <alanadamsjacobs (AT) (DOT) co.uk>Betreff: fate and free will cont'dAn: Datum: Freitag, 20. März 2009, 6:59 Dear Andreas,A very good point. The subtle interaction between Fate and Free Will is often missed. I am not sure, however, that cultivating 'free will' is Self Enquiry?Here is a Posting from a relatively unknown book 'More Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi' published by Bangalore Centre for learning but available at Ramnasramam. It ir from the records of N.N.Rajan covering the period from 1940-1944 .P.28-29Q. What are the roles of fate and free will in our life?............ ..Bhagavan:Fate cannot arise without the free will, which is the origin.It causes its effect and shapes the destiny.Virtuous thoughts and actions bring favourable results.Likewise undesirable ones cause bad effects.First the mind should be made pure to avoid adverse reactions.Free-will should be exercised judiciously.When unfavourable destiny is at play, the mind also will not be pure.Mind goes the way of destiny.Virtuous thoughts bring in favourable destiny.Free-will and destiny are interlinked, in a limited way the fate can be altered by the force of free will. But,the present fate is due to past actions.The actions are already over and done with.How are you going to erase them now?.....Only spiritual wisdom and discrimination will solve the problem.Through Self Enquiry come to the decision about the real 'I'.Then there will be no problem.In the enlightened state, the seeker himself is no more.Fate and free-will become null and void.One is established in a state which transcends them.--- On Thu, 19/3/09, andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote:andreas farsatis <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de>AW: From 'GEMS FROM BHAGAVAN'Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 9:35 AMFate has a beginning - a cause - an action and that can'tbe done without freewill, and becouse freewill is the origin causeis the sovereign factor, that means by cultivating freewill,fate can be defeated.Cultivating freewill is Self-inquiry. .Namaste and warm regardsSandoshan Meer dan chatten alleen. Check nu de nieuwe Windows Live Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.21/2014 - Release 03/20/09 06:59:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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