From the Garland of Guru's Sayings-WHO translation.

March 23, 2009

> Verse 138.

The teaching of the Guru is just the dwelling in the Heart,

> through the Experience of the One Reality, won by turning

> the one-pointed mind inwards after understanding that Truth

> (intellectually).

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This

> quotation is from the book, Guru--Ramana--Vachana--Mala by " Who, "

> published by Sri Ramanasramam.

March 23, 2009

Dear Alan ,

My little thoughts on this powerful verse ..Intellectual understanding is relatively easy .. we could have it by listening to lectures , reading books , associating with men who are wise..

But LIVING the UNDERSTANDING is altogether another matter .. That is a path not

so rosy .. and requires lots of patience and intense sadhana !

Pranams

ramesh

--- On Mon, 3/23/09, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote:

Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs From the Garland of Guru's Sayings-WHO translation. Date: Monday, March 23, 2009, 9:42 AM

> Verse 138.The teaching of the Guru is just the dwelling in the Heart,> through the Experience of the One Reality, won by turning> the one-pointed mind inwards after understanding that Truth> (intellectually) .> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~> > This> quotation is from the book, Guru--Ramana- -Vachana- -Mala by "Who,"> published by Sri Ramanasramam.

March 23, 2009

Dear Ramesh,

I totally agree, and thank you for your interesting and informative postings.

Yours in Bhagavan,

With love,

Alan --- On Mon, 23/3/09, ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote:

ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chivRe: From the Garland of Guru's Sayings-WHO translation. Date: Monday, 23 March, 2009, 4:33 AM

Dear Alan ,

My little thoughts on this powerful verse ..Intellectual understanding is relatively easy .. we could have it by listening to lectures , reading books , associating with men who are wise..

But LIVING the UNDERSTANDING is altogether another matter .. That is a path not

so rosy .. and requires lots of patience and intense sadhana !

Pranams

ramesh

--- On Mon, 3/23/09, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> wrote:

Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> From the Garland of Guru's Sayings-WHO translation.Monday, March 23, 2009, 9:42 AM

> Verse 138.The teaching of the Guru is just the dwelling in the Heart,> through the Experience of the One Reality, won by turning> the one-pointed mind inwards after understanding that Truth> (intellectually) .> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~> > This> quotation is from the book, Guru--Ramana- -Vachana- -Mala by "Who,"> published by Sri Ramanasramam.

March 23, 2009

> Verse 138.

The teaching of the Guru is just the dwelling in the Heart,

> through the Experience of the One Reality, won by turning the

> one-pointed mind inwards after understanding that Truth

> (intellectually).

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Alan,

I wonder if the following passage from " Talks " might throw some light on why

the word " intellectually " is placed in the above stanza? The intellect is

the vijnana-maya kosa in the five sheaths system. This is also the

'I-thought' (see Talk 277). Seeking the source of the 'I-thought' is

atma-vichara, self-inquiry.

In a number of places in Talks Sri Ramana points out that when the mind is

extraverted, turned outwards we experience the duality of 'I and you', 'I

and world' and 'I and God'. When turned inward the mind is realised to be

non other than the Self wherein shines the 'I - I'.

Anyway, here is what Sri Ramana says, which is the important thing.

Maharshi on Self-Illumination:

The 'I' concept is the ego. I-illumination is the Realisation of the

Real Self. It is ever shining forth as 'I-I' in the intellectual sheath. It

is pure Knowledge; relative knowledge is only a concept. The bliss of the

blissful sheath is also but a concept. Unless there is the experience,

however subtle it is, one cannot say " I slept happily " . From his intellect

he speaks of his blissful sheath. The bliss of sleep is but a concept to the

person, the same as intellect. However, the concept of experience is

exceedingly subtle in sleep. Experience is not possible without simultaneous

knowledge of it (i.e. relative knowledge).

The inherent nature of the Self is Bliss. Some kind of knowledge has to

be admitted, even in the realisation of Supreme Bliss. It may be said to be

subtler than the subtlest.

The word vijnana (clear knowledge) is used both to denote the

Realisation of the Self and knowing the objects. The Self is wisdom. It

functions in two ways. When associated with the ego the knowledge is

objective (vijnana). When divested of the ego and the Universal Self is

realised, it is also called vijnana. The word raises a mental concept.

Therefore we say that the Self-Realised Sage knows by his mind, but his mind

is pure. Again we say that the vibrating mind is impure and the placid mind

is pure. The pure mind is itself Brahman; therefore it follows that Brahman

is not other than the mind of the sage.

.. . . The light of the Self can be experienced only in the intellectual

sheath. Therefore vijnana of whatever kind (of object or of the Self)

depends on the Self being Pure Knowledge.

(Talk 204)

Best wishes,

Peter

March 23, 2009

Dear Peter,

This is most helpful and goes a long way to explain why Muruganar recorded the word, translated by WHO as 'intellectually" in this utterance of Sri Bhagavan. Of course I think it is also implied that the first step is to gain a clear intellectual understanding of Advaita, before Enquiry and Surrender can successfully proceed..

Love,

In His Grace,

Alan --- On Mon, 23/3/09, Peter <not_2 wrote:

Peter <not_2RE: From the Garland of Guru's Sayings-WHO translation. Date: Monday, 23 March, 2009, 11:08 AM

> Verse 138.The teaching of the Guru is just the dwelling in the Heart,> through the Experience of the One Reality, won by turning the > one-pointed mind inwards after understanding that Truth > (intellectually) .> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~Dear Alan,I wonder if the following passage from "Talks" might throw some light on whythe word "intellectually" is placed in the above stanza? The intellect isthe vijnana-maya kosa in the five sheaths system. This is also the'I-thought' (see Talk 277). Seeking the source of the 'I-thought' isatma-vichara, self-inquiry.In a number of places in Talks Sri Ramana points out that when the mind isextraverted, turned outwards we experience the duality of 'I and you', 'Iand world' and 'I and God'. When turned inward the mind is realised to benon other than the Self wherein

shines the 'I - I'.Anyway, here is what Sri Ramana says, which is the important thing.Maharshi on Self-Illumination: The 'I' concept is the ego. I-illumination is the Realisation of theReal Self. It is ever shining forth as 'I-I' in the intellectual sheath. Itis pure Knowledge; relative knowledge is only a concept. The bliss of theblissful sheath is also but a concept. Unless there is the experience,however subtle it is, one cannot say "I slept happily". From his intellecthe speaks of his blissful sheath. The bliss of sleep is but a concept to theperson, the same as intellect. However, the concept of experience isexceedingly subtle in sleep. Experience is not possible without simultaneousknowledge of it (i.e. relative knowledge).The inherent nature of the Self is Bliss. Some kind of knowledge has tobe admitted, even in the realisation of Supreme Bliss. It may be said to besubtler

than the subtlest.The word vijnana (clear knowledge) is used both to denote theRealisation of the Self and knowing the objects. The Self is wisdom. Itfunctions in two ways. When associated with the ego the knowledge isobjective (vijnana). When divested of the ego and the Universal Self isrealised, it is also called vijnana. The word raises a mental concept.Therefore we say that the Self-Realised Sage knows by his mind, but his mindis pure. Again we say that the vibrating mind is impure and the placid mindis pure. The pure mind is itself Brahman; therefore it follows that Brahmanis not other than the mind of the sage.. . . The light of the Self can be experienced only in the intellectualsheath. Therefore vijnana of whatever kind (of object or of the Self)depends on the Self being Pure Knowledge.(Talk 204)Best wishes,Peter