Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dear Michael, Yes, much of our sadhana is 'easier said than done'. Bhagavan has the following to say about this: " Surrender appears easy because people imagine that, once they say with their lips 'I surrender' and put their burdens on their Lord, they can be free and do what they like. But the fact is that you can have no likes or dislikes after your surrender and that your will should become completely non-existent, the Lord's Will taking its place. Such death of the ego is nothing different from jnana. " (from Day by Day with Bhagavan: p85) This passage reminded me of the second mangallam verse to Ulladhu Narpadhu: " Men of pure minds who intensely fear death surrender themselves unto the Lord of all, the blissful One, the indwelling Self, who has no death nor birth. By that (surrender) their ego, along with their attachments becomes extinguished. How can they, who (thus) have won abode in Immortality, have any thought of death? " (Mangalam ii of " Forty Verses on Reality " ) And we might wonder - 'who is this Lord whose will we should surrender unto?' The following passages come to mind from " Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi. " " Surrender is to give oneself up to the original cause of one's being. Do not delude yourself by imagining such a source to be some God outside you. Your source is within yourself. Give yourself up to it. That means you should seek the source and merge in it. " (Talks: 208) And... " Learn what surrender is. It is to merge in the source of the ego. The ego is surrendered to the Self. Everything is dear to us because of love of the Self. The Self is that to which we surrender our ego and let the Supreme Power, i.e., the Self, do what it pleases. The ego is already the Self's. We have no rights over the ego, even as it is. However, supposing we had, we must surrender them. " (Talks 201) With best wishes, Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dear Peter and Michael , Thanks for all the enlightening inputs .. I would just like to add something. Surrender is of two kinds - passive ( born out of lethargy , tamasic in nature ) and the other true and active surrender born out of wisdom and learning and is of satvic nature. Pranams ramesh --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Peter <not_2 wrote: Peter <not_2 Surrender appears... Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 5:04 PM Dear Michael,Yes, much of our sadhana is 'easier said than done'. Bhagavan has the following to say about this:"Surrender appears easy because people imagine that, once they say withtheir lips 'I surrender' and put their burdens on their Lord, they can befree and do what they like. But the fact is that you can have no likes ordislikes after your surrender and that your will should become completelynon-existent, the Lord's Will taking its place. Such death of the ego isnothing different from jnana." (from Day by Day with Bhagavan: p85) This passage reminded me of the second mangallam verse to Ulladhu Narpadhu:"Men of pure minds who intensely fear death surrender themselves unto theLord of all, the blissful One, the indwelling Self, who has no death norbirth. By that (surrender) their ego, along with their attachments becomesextinguished. How can they, who (thus) have won abode in Immortality, haveany thought of death?" (Mangalam ii of "Forty Verses on Reality")And we might wonder - 'who is this Lord whose will we should surrenderunto?' The following passages come to mind from "Talks with Sri RamanaMaharshi.""Surrender is to give oneself up to the original cause of one's being. Donot delude yourself by imagining such a source to be some God outside you.Your source is within yourself. Give yourself up to it. That means youshould seek the source and merge in it."(Talks: 208)And..."Learn what surrender is. It is to merge in the source of the ego. The egois surrendered to the Self. Everything is dear to us because of love of theSelf. The Self is that to which we surrender our ego and let the SupremePower, i.e., the Self, do what it pleases. The ego is already the Self's. Wehave no rights over the ego, even as it is. However, supposing we had, wemust surrender them."(Talks 201)With best wishes,Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dear Ramesh "surrender" SURRENDER its SURRENDERING but who is surrendering???? michael - ramesh chivukula Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:27 PM Re: Surrender appears... Dear Peter and Michael , Thanks for all the enlightening inputs .. I would just like to add something. Surrender is of two kinds - passive ( born out of lethargy , tamasic in nature ) and the other true and active surrender born out of wisdom and learning and is of satvic nature. Pranams ramesh --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Peter <not_2 (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote: Peter <not_2 (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> Surrender appears... Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 5:04 PM Dear Michael,Yes, much of our sadhana is 'easier said than done'. Bhagavan has the following to say about this:"Surrender appears easy because people imagine that, once they say withtheir lips 'I surrender' and put their burdens on their Lord, they can befree and do what they like. But the fact is that you can have no likes ordislikes after your surrender and that your will should become completelynon-existent, the Lord's Will taking its place. Such death of the ego isnothing different from jnana." (from Day by Day with Bhagavan: p85) This passage reminded me of the second mangallam verse to Ulladhu Narpadhu:"Men of pure minds who intensely fear death surrender themselves unto theLord of all, the blissful One, the indwelling Self, who has no death norbirth. By that (surrender) their ego, along with their attachments becomesextinguished. How can they, who (thus) have won abode in Immortality, haveany thought of death?" (Mangalam ii of "Forty Verses on Reality")And we might wonder - 'who is this Lord whose will we should surrenderunto?' The following passages come to mind from "Talks with Sri RamanaMaharshi.""Surrender is to give oneself up to the original cause of one's being. Donot delude yourself by imagining such a source to be some God outside you.Your source is within yourself. Give yourself up to it. That means youshould seek the source and merge in it."(Talks: 208)And..."Learn what surrender is. It is to merge in the source of the ego. The egois surrendered to the Self. Everything is dear to us because of love of theSelf. The Self is that to which we surrender our ego and let the SupremePower, i.e., the Self, do what it pleases. The ego is already the Self's. Wehave no rights over the ego, even as it is. However, supposing we had, wemust surrender them."(Talks 201)With best wishes,Peter Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.25/2019 - Release 03/23/09 18:51:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dear Peter tku for forwarding what you found in Sri Ramana Maharshi - Peter Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:34 PM Surrender appears... Dear Michael,Yes, much of our sadhana is 'easier said than done'. Bhagavan has the following to say about this:"Surrender appears easy because people imagine that, once they say withtheir lips 'I surrender' and put their burdens on their Lord, they can befree and do what they like. But the fact is that you can have no likes ordislikes after your surrender and that your will should become completelynon-existent, the Lord's Will taking its place. Such death of the ego isnothing different from jnana." (from Day by Day with Bhagavan: p85) This passage reminded me of the second mangallam verse to Ulladhu Narpadhu:"Men of pure minds who intensely fear death surrender themselves unto theLord of all, the blissful One, the indwelling Self, who has no death norbirth. By that (surrender) their ego, along with their attachments becomesextinguished. How can they, who (thus) have won abode in Immortality, haveany thought of death?" (Mangalam ii of "Forty Verses on Reality")And we might wonder - 'who is this Lord whose will we should surrenderunto?' The following passages come to mind from "Talks with Sri RamanaMaharshi.""Surrender is to give oneself up to the original cause of one's being. Donot delude yourself by imagining such a source to be some God outside you.Your source is within yourself. Give yourself up to it. That means youshould seek the source and merge in it."(Talks: 208)And..."Learn what surrender is. It is to merge in the source of the ego. The egois surrendered to the Self. Everything is dear to us because of love of theSelf. The Self is that to which we surrender our ego and let the SupremePower, i.e., the Self, do what it pleases. The ego is already the Self's. Wehave no rights over the ego, even as it is. However, supposing we had, wemust surrender them."(Talks 201)With best wishes,Peter Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.25/2019 - Release 03/23/09 18:51:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dear Ramesh, That's an interesting thought. I would probably see the tamasic kind of surrender, ie born out of lethargy, to be surrender to the vasanas rather than surrender to the Self. Perhaps you could say a bit more as to what you had in mind? Best wishes, Peter ________________________________ On Behalf Of ramesh chivukula 24 March 2009 12:28 Re: Surrender appears... Dear Peter and Michael , Thanks for all the enlightening inputs .. I would just like to add something. Surrender is of two kinds - passive ( born out of lethargy , tamasic in nature ) and the other true and active surrender born out of wisdom and learning and is of satvic nature. Pranams ramesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dear Michael, Sri Ramana asks that same question of us when he quotes Krishna in the Bhagavat Gita.... " 'I, O Arjuna! am the Self, seated in the heart of all beings; ...' (Bhagavad Gita, X-20). The stanza shows that the Lord is the Atma (Self) of all beings. Does it say, " the Self of the selves " ? If, on the other hand, you merge in the Self there will be no individuality left. You will become the Source itself. In that case what is surrender? Who is to surrender what and to whom? This constitutes devotion, wisdom, and investigation. " (Talks: 208) Best wishes, Peter ________________________________ On Behalf Of Michael Bindel 24 March 2009 12:59 Re: Surrender appears... Dear Ramesh " surrender " SURRENDER its SURRENDERING but who is surrendering???? michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Dear Peter , May be it was out of context ..What i meant by passive surrender was this : Not surrendering to vasanas , but passively surrendering to fate .. this is quite common in India .. it is born out of lack of faith , just sheer helplessness and no spiritual awareness.. that is when there is complete lethargy , a vegetative state of mind .. Wonderfully described in Lord Krishna in the Gita . hope it is not too confusing .. anyway as i said this is completely out of context here and a mere academic thought. Pranams ramesh --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Peter <not_2 wrote: Peter <not_2RE: Surrender appears... Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 7:44 PM Dear Ramesh,That's an interesting thought. I would probably see the tamasic kind ofsurrender, ie born out of lethargy, to be surrender to the vasanas ratherthan surrender to the Self. Perhaps you could say a bit more as to what youhad in mind?Best wishes,Peter____________ _________ _________ __ []On Behalf Of ramesh chivukula24 March 2009 12:28Re: Surrender appears...Dear Peter and Michael ,Thanks for all the enlightening inputs .. I would just like to addsomething.Surrender is of two kinds - passive ( born out of lethargy , tamasic innature )and the other true and active surrender born out of wisdom and learning and is of satvic nature.Pranamsramesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Dear Ramesh, Yes, that makes a lot of sense when you put it that way. Goood point. Best wishes, Peter ________________________________ On Behalf Of ramesh chivukula 25 March 2009 04:10 RE: Surrender appears... Dear Peter , May be it was out of context ..What i meant by passive surrender was this : Not surrendering to vasanas , but passively surrendering to fate .. this is quite common in India .. it is born out of lack of faith , just sheer helplessness and no spiritual awareness.. that is when there is complete lethargy , a vegetative state of mind .. Wonderfully described in Lord Krishna in the Gita . hope it is not too confusing .. anyway as i said this is completely out of context here and a mere academic thought. Pranams ramesh --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Peter <not_2 wrote: Peter <not_2 RE: Surrender appears... Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 7:44 PM Dear Ramesh, That's an interesting thought. I would probably see the tamasic kind of surrender, ie born out of lethargy, to be surrender to the vasanas rather than surrender to the Self. Perhaps you could say a bit more as to what you had in mind? Best wishes, Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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