Guest guest Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Celebrating Spirit Birth " Except a man be born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. Don't be shocked that I say to you, you must be born again. " Jesus " Ye who wish to celebrate the birthday, seek ye first whence was your birth. That indeed is one's birthday when one enters THAT which transcends (the illusion of physical/material) birth and death, (namely—) The Eternal Being. " At least on one's birthday one should morn one's entry into this (illusion) world (samsara). To glorify and celebrate it is like delighting in decorating a corpse. To seek one's (True) Self and merge in the Self— that is Wisdom. " Sri Ramana Maharshi— ( Self Realisation Life & Teaching of Sri Ramana Maharshi by B.V. Narasimhaswami, p183). " So long as we seem to see bodies, objects, trees, etc., as imperfect, we are not seeing as Perfect Vision (or seeing THAT Actual Reality which the Eternal Seer Always sees and IS). So long as we seem to see substance in form as ugly, distorted, etc., we are not seeing as Perfect Vision (or seeing AS the One Who only Truly Sees). So long as we seem to see abnormality, decrepitude, and the like, we are seeing imperfectly. So long as we seem to see new born babies, we are not seeing the Substance in Form that Really is before us. In order to actually see the Body of Anyone, or Anything, we must (by merging back into and AS the Immutable Seer) see It at the very height of Completeness, and Perfection. If the body of one called a baby had to grow, to mature, and then decline, or deteriorate, then we would have change. But God, Being The Principle- Immutability- simply (and in the Realm of the Absolute which is the only Actuality) does not become a born baby body, then a child's body, a mature body, and then an old body. " In Illumination, I (AS The One Infinite Mind) have never seen a baby body, nor have I seen an aging or old body. Neither have I seen a distorted or ugly body. I AM now speaking of the Body of the Tree, the Rose, or Any Substance in (actual) Form. So long as we seem to see bodies that are solid matter (or any materiality which appears to have changed in form from the original unaltered elements or Substance), we are seeing imperfectly (or as a deluded dreamer within the confines of the Great Cosmic Play). It is futile to try to change Substance, Form, and Activity. We certainly can't improve THAT which IS Absolutely Perfect ALREADY. " Every attempt we make to improve the body (as held in the dream mind to be mortal), by diet, exercise, drugs, etc., only seems to add to our imperfect `seeing' or to our misconception, in which we have imperfect vision of things AS THEY ARE. THERE IS NEVER IMPERFECT BEING. There only seems to be imperfect `seeing' or perception (within the make-believe world of dream). One day, all of us (being awakened from the Cosmic illusion) are going to see the futility of trying to make the Body more perfect. And we will really see— perceive— and experience, BEING THE ETERNAL, CONSTANT IMMUTABLE BODY THAT WE GENUINELY ARE. (These words are simply describing the joy of awaking from the illusion of dream and returning- in the here and NOW— to and AS That Immutable Reality from which none have in actuality— ever left. Therefore, not only do practices such as dieting, exercise, and drug induction, etc., etc., lose their significance, but just the other side of the dream veil it is also well understood that Light Beings do not consume food or drink nor participate in exercise in order to live. Timeless LIFE is dependent on nothing to exist. In other words, Eternal LIFE is Self-sustainable Boundless Joy. Therefore, dining, exercise, and the like, are among the myriad Joys which are practice for shear glorious Pleasure). " Through the ages (dream or born) man has been trying to improve a supposed imperfect body. Even our friends, the Buddhistic Yogis, have their breathing exercises, their body postures, etc. It is true that some of them are more interested in attaining illumination, and thus Nirvana. But there are some who feel that these exercises and postures are of greater importance in `building' a better body. Jesus said, according to your belief shall it be unto you.' And, because they believe in these exercises, often, to them, there does seem to be bodily improvement. But, sooner or later, these supposed `better bodies' are going to seem to run down, to become aged, and decrepit. Why is this true? BECAUSE THE KIND OF BODY THEY ARE TRYING TO IMPROVE SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST. " There really is ONE BODY, and One Kind of Body. The word `mankind' simply means a kind of man who begins to be alive, conscious, etc., at birth, and then becomes unalive, and unconscious, at death. BUT THAT KIND OF MAN DOES NOT EXIST. The only Man who does exist is the Christ Man. And the only Body that does exist is the Forever Constant Changeless Christ Body, or the Body of the Christ. " The physicists claim that all substance remains the same substance, but that the forms constantly change in which this substance appears. For instance, they say that the tree falls to the earth, and the substance of the tree deteriorates and becomes dust, etc. Thus the substance of the tree is supposed to reappear in an entirely different form. In a somewhat similar way, some branches of the Buddhist faith believe that man may begin as an insect, turtle, serpent, or substance in some lesser form, and finally change into the form called man. This is a misconception of the Body of Man. The Form, the Substance, and the Activity of This Body never has and never will, change. Why is this True? The form of every atom remains THAT form, and no other. The form of every nucleus remains THAT form. It simply cannot change. What is the Atom? What is ALL Substance in Form? GOD. ISN'T GOD ALL? OF COURSE. What is the Substance in Form called the Body? GOD. AND GOD DOES NOT CHANGE. Thus, the Substance, the Form, and the Activity called THIS BODY, IS FOREVER IMMUTABLE. " Now in order to present this basic Truth as succinctly as possible. let us say it in this way: Everything and Everyone that we can possibly view or see, is Constantly Changelessly Perfect, BECAUSE PERFECTION IS ALL THERE IS TO SEE, TO HEAR, OR TO BE. But we (of the dream), because we imagine ourselves to be temporary, ever changing, born man, seem to believe in, and see, our own fallacious picturization of our expectations. In short, we see what we believe, even as we believe what we see. " Let us simply, and without effort, refuse to believe, acknowledge, or accept, any appearance of change, or of imperfection. Let us always be aware of the Fact that, whatever we are viewing, or seeing, is the Absolute Perfection THAT WE ARE. (This is by no means an admonition to the ego of dream to shift its focus and thereby evolve itself into God. On the contrary, such is always the sole Vision of THAT Infinite God-Self which is said to instantly emerge or Express once the ego false self of dream has irreversibly disappeared). And it is This Perfection BEING Substance, Form, and Activity. Let us also perceive the Fact that the only vision that sees anything IS THE PERFECT VISION THAT WE ARE, SEEING ONLY PERFECTION. IT IS PERFECTION AWARE OF SEEING AND BEING ITS EVERLASTING, PERFECT CHANGELESS SELF. AND WE ARE THAT SELF. " Marie S Watts— (The Ultimate Awareness An Eternal Constant, Vol.2, pp62-66). Let us Play for a while and review some of the unique mechanics of OUR Great Cosmic Dream pertaining to the idea of " body " . " In order to see clearly just what Body IS, let us expose and dispose of that which Body is not. Let us face this thing squarely, and see what this (so-called-`other') mind that is no mind claims to report to us about body. " According to this (dream or) non-mind, the body is supposed to be temporal, to have beginning, change, and ending. It is supposed to have been created and to be the projection of other temporal bodies. In turn, it is supposed to create more temporal bodies. It is supposed to be born, to live, to suffer and enjoy, to sicken and weaken, and finally to die. It is supposed to be composed of material elements constantly in a state of change; and finally, these material elements are supposed to decompose. It is supposed to be something that can live of itself, and die of itself. Each individual body is supposed to have its own substance, form, activity, and life span separate and apart from the ONE Indivisible LIFE. Each individual body is supposed to have its own mind, its own intelligence, separate and apart from the ONE Inseparable MIND. The life of each individual body is supposed to begin a few months before birth and to end at death. Each individual body is supposed to occupy a certain amount of space for a certain length of time. (Of course—) All of this is a myth (Even— the Myth of Our Great Cosmic Dream), a supposition; there is no truth (or reality) in it. " (That is, it is not a part of The ACTUALITY Universe which We Forever ARE.) " YOUR BODY IS YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS, YOUR SOUL, EMBODIED. YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS IS ETERNAL GOD; AND YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS EMBODIED IS THE BODY YOU HAVE AT THIS VERY INSTANT. (Be clear, this is by no means in reference to a so-called myth or mortal dream body but rather to the Only Actual God-Body of Blazing Light that Man Always IS just beyond the hazy veil of dream). IT NEVER BEGAN, AND IT NEVER BEGAN AS YOUR BODY. IT CAN NEVER END, AND IT CAN NEVER END AS YOUR BODY. Now, can you see why we say that there is no creator and no creation? All that exists now has always existed, and will forever exist. And this existence includes your Body. " In (and AS) this Consciousness You know that there is no death, and no material body that is subject to death. " Marie S. Watts, The Ultimate, Your Self Revealed, pp77,78,87,88,94. " Bondage and freedom are characteristics of the (so-called human) mind, and the mind is falsely (or for the sake of the Drama Divine) superimposed upon the Soul (or True Divine Self of Man). In his own self-imposed bondage, the ignorant (or dream) man becomes entangled and then strives for emancipation. But we are told, in the inspiring words of the Upanishad: `There is neither death nor birth, neither a struggling nor a bound soul, neither a seeker after Liberation not a liberated one— This, indeed, is the Ultimate Truth.' " Sri Nikhilananda— (Self-Knowledge (Atmaboda), p113). To Awaken from the illusion of dream is to realize that Celebration of Spirit Birth is illusion as well. The Wisdom of The ONE The Only Love, Crystaqueous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 , " crystaqueous " <crystaqueous wrote: ...But we are told, in the inspiring words of the Upanishad: > > `There is neither death nor birth, neither a struggling nor a bound soul, neither a seeker after Liberation not a liberated one— This, indeed, is the Ultimate Truth.' I know these words or similar ones were stated by Gaudapada in his commentaries. Ramana restated these words. In which Upanishad, if any, can these words be found? Thank you, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Dear Richard, It's associated with the Mandukya Upanishad. However, it's not in the Upanishad itself. It is verse 32, Chapter Two, of Gaudapada's Mandukya Karika. The twelve verses of the Upanishad (one of the shortest principle upanishads) form part of Chapter One of Gaudapada's Karika. Peter > > > On Behalf Of Richard > 06 May 2009 14:45 > > Re: Celebrating Spirit Birth > > , " crystaqueous " > <crystaqueous wrote: > ...But we are told, in the inspiring words of the Upanishad: > > > > `There is neither death nor birth, neither a struggling nor > a bound soul, neither a seeker after Liberation not a > liberated one- This, indeed, is the Ultimate Truth.' > > I know these words or similar ones were stated by Gaudapada > in his commentaries. Ramana restated these words. In which > Upanishad, if any, can these words be found? > > Thank you, > Richard > > > > > > --- > > is supported by . New > articles are added there on a continuous basis. Please > register at . You will be kept updated and > get the new articles which are posted on the site very nicely > formatted in your e-mail. > > Friends, after registering at , if you wish > to contribute your writing to the site, please let me know. > Your articles should be original, well written, using > subtitles, and be carefully proofread and polished. For a > list of topics considered, please go to > and take a look at the site. Thanks. > > Namaste and love to all > Harsha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hi Peter,  Thanks for your input, Don't know where this saying did originally arise other than to find it quoted by Sri Swami Nikhilananda in the book Self Knowledge (AtmaBodha) on page 113. What I do know is that it is the Absolute Truth no matter whence it hails. Another gem is as follows and is found in The Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi, p172, by Arthur Osborne “Bondage and liberation are creations of Maya, superimpositions upon Brahman, (and portrayed in the Divine Play as being) imagined by the (born-man) mind without any existence in Reality. It is a fool who blames the sun for his blindness. It is impossible to argue that bondage (samsara) is caused by the veiling power (tamas) of Maya and liberation by its destruction, since there is no differentiation apart from Maya. Such an argument would lead to a denial of the Truth of Non-duality and an affirmation of duality. This would be contrary to the authority of the Scriptures. How can there be any display of Maya in Non-dual Brahman, which is Perfect Stillness, One Whole like the Ether, Spotless, Actionless, Unstained, and Formless? The Scriptures even proclaim aloud: ‘THERE IS IN TRUTH NO CREATION AND NO DESTRUCTION; NO ONE IS BOUND, NO ONE IS SEEKING LIBERATION, NO ONE IS ON THE WAY TO DELIVERANCE. THERE ARE NONE LIBERATED. THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.’ My dear disciple, THIS, The Sum and Substance of ALL The Upanishads, the Secret of Secrets, is my instruction to you.†The Only Love, Crys --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Peter <not_2 wrote: Peter <not_2 RE: Re: Celebrating Spirit Birth Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 11:09 AM Dear Richard, It's associated with the Mandukya Upanishad. However, it's not in the Upanishad itself. It is verse 32, Chapter Two, of Gaudapada's Mandukya Karika. The twelve verses of the Upanishad (one of the shortest principle upanishads) form part of Chapter One of Gaudapada's Karika. Peter > > > [] On Behalf Of Richard > 06 May 2009 14:45 > > Re: Celebrating Spirit Birth > > , " crystaqueous " > <crystaqueous@ ...> wrote: > ...But we are told, in the inspiring words of the Upanishad: > > > > `There is neither death nor birth, neither a struggling nor > a bound soul, neither a seeker after Liberation not a > liberated one- This, indeed, is the Ultimate Truth.' > > I know these words or similar ones were stated by Gaudapada > in his commentaries. Ramana restated these words. In which > Upanishad, if any, can these words be found? > > Thank you, > Richard > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > is supported by http://luthar. com/. New > articles are added there on a continuous basis. Please > register at http://luthar. com/. You will be kept updated and > get the new articles which are posted on the site very nicely > formatted in your e-mail. > > Friends, after registering at http://luthar. com/, if you wish > to contribute your writing to the site, please let me know. > Your articles should be original, well written, using > subtitles, and be carefully proofread and polished. For a > list of topics considered, please go to http://luthar. com/ > and take a look at the site. Thanks. > > Namaste and love to all > Harsha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 " There is no dissolution or creation, no one in bondage, nor anyone pursuing spiritual practices. There is no one desiring liberation nor anyone liberated. This is the Absolute Truth. " Dear Crys and Richard (Clarke), Crys, you are quite right that the truth of the verse does not depend on its origins. However, as Richard C asked for the source, the following might be of interest.... Sri Ramana quotes the above passage and like many people attributes it to Gaudapada - the reference I've already given (Mandukya Karika, ch.2, verse 32). However, following up " the gem " you shared from Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi, the passages qouted there are from Sankaracharya's Vivekacudamani, adapted and translated into Tamil prose by Sri Ramana. If we look these up in Vivekacadumani, we have: " There is neither death nor birth, neither a bound nor a struggling soul, neither a seeker after liberation nor a liberated one - this is the ultimate truth. " (Verse 574) As Sankaracharya is later than Gaudapada we might assume he has simply quoted from the latter. However, Swami Madhavananda suggests that the source given for verse 574 in Vivekacudamani is sloka 10 of the Amritabindhu Upanishad, which states: 'The highest Truth is that (pure consciousness) which realises, " There is neither control of the mind, nor its coming into play. Neither am I bound, nor am I a worshipper, neither am I a seeker after liberation, nor one who has attained liberation. " ' (sloka 10 as translated by Swami Madhavanda) 'There is no death, no becoming, None bound, none aspirant, No liberated existence, no desire for it, That is the highest reality. " (sloka 10 as translated by Paul Deussen) This would support the passage in your earlier post, Crys. I couldn't find this in Nikhilananda's " Self Knowledge " on page 113, I think I must have a different edition. Would you be good enough to let me know what chapter and sub section it is in. Thanks. Peter > > > On Behalf Of Richard Marchant > 07 May 2009 12:56 > > RE: Re: Celebrating > Spirit Birth > > > Hi Peter, > > Thanks for your input, > Don't know where this saying did originally arise other than > to find it quoted by Sri Swami Nikhilananda in the book Self > Knowledge (AtmaBodha) on page 113. > What I do know is that it is the Absolute Truth no matter > whence it hails. > > > Another gem is as follows and is found in The Collected Works > of Ramana Maharshi, p172, by Arthur Osborne > > “Bondage and liberation are creations of Maya, > superimpositions upon Brahman, (and portrayed in the Divine > Play as being) imagined by the (born-man) mind without any > existence in Reality. It is a fool who blames the sun for > his blindness. It is impossible to argue that bondage > (samsara) is caused by the veiling power (tamas) of Maya and > liberation by its destruction, since there is no > differentiation apart from Maya. Such an argument would lead > to a denial of the Truth of Non-duality and an affirmation of > duality. This would be contrary to the authority of the > Scriptures. How can there be any display of Maya in Non-dual > Brahman, which is Perfect Stillness, One Whole like the > Ether, Spotless, Actionless, Unstained, and Formless? The > Scriptures even proclaim aloud: ‘THERE IS IN TRUTH NO > CREATION AND NO DESTRUCTION; NO ONE IS BOUND, NO ONE IS > SEEKING LIBERATION, NO ONE IS ON THE WAY TO DELIVERANCE. > THERE ARE NONE LIBERATED. THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.’ My > dear disciple, THIS, The Sum and Substance of ALL The > Upanishads, the Secret of Secrets, is my instruction to you.” > > The Only Love, > Crys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Dear Peter, What a joy to diolog together. Yes, I have the 4th edition of Sri Nikhilananda's Self Knowledge 1989. ISBN 0-911206-11-6 Its in the Introduction under the title- The Goal- in my edition this statement is found just 7 pages into The Goal section. Hope that helps. I always am happy for your sharing Peter. The Only Love, Crys--- On Thu, 5/7/09, Peter <not_2 wrote: Peter <not_2RE: Re: Celebrating Spirit Birth Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 10:13 AM "There is no dissolution or creation, no one in bondage,nor anyone pursuing spiritual practices.There is no one desiring liberation nor anyone liberated.This is the Absolute Truth."Dear Crys and Richard (Clarke),Crys, you are quite right that the truth of the verse does not depend on itsorigins. However, as Richard C asked for the source, the following might beof interest....Sri Ramana quotes the above passage and like many people attributes it toGaudapada - the reference I've already given (Mandukya Karika, ch.2, verse32). However, following up "the gem" you shared from Collected Works ofRamana Maharshi, the passages qouted there are from Sankaracharya' sVivekacudamani, adapted and translated into Tamil prose by Sri Ramana. Ifwe look these up in Vivekacadumani, we have:"There is neither death nor birth, neither a bound nor a struggling soul,neither a seeker after liberation nor a liberated one - this is the ultimatetruth." (Verse 574)As Sankaracharya is later than Gaudapada we might assume he has simplyquoted from the latter. However, Swami Madhavananda suggests that thesource given for verse 574 in Vivekacudamani is sloka 10 of the AmritabindhuUpanishad, which states:'The highest Truth is that (pure consciousness) which realises, "There isneither control of the mind, nor its coming into play. Neither am I bound,nor am I a worshipper, neither am I a seeker after liberation, nor one whohas attained liberation." ' (sloka 10 as translated by Swami Madhavanda)'There is no death, no becoming,None bound, none aspirant,No liberated existence, no desire for it,That is the highest reality." (sloka 10 as translated by Paul Deussen)This would support the passage in your earlier post, Crys.I couldn't find this in Nikhilananda' s "Self Knowledge" on page 113, I thinkI must have a different edition. Would you be good enough to let me knowwhat chapter and sub section it is in. Thanks.Peter> > > [] On Behalf Of Richard Marchant> 07 May 2009 12:56> > RE: Re: Celebrating > Spirit Birth> > > Hi Peter,> > Thanks for your input,> Don't know where this saying did originally arise other than > to find it quoted by Sri Swami Nikhilananda in the book Self > Knowledge (AtmaBodha) on page 113.> What I do know is that it is the Absolute Truth no matter > whence it hails.> > > Another gem is as follows and is found in The Collected Works > of Ramana Maharshi, p172, by Arthur Osborne > > “Bondage and liberation are creations of Maya, > superimpositions upon Brahman, (and portrayed in the Divine > Play as being) imagined by the (born-man) mind without any > existence in Reality. It is a fool who blames the sun for > his blindness. It is impossible to argue that bondage > (samsara) is caused by the veiling power (tamas) of Maya and > liberation by its destruction, since there is no > differentiation apart from Maya. Such an argument would lead > to a denial of the Truth of Non-duality and an affirmation of > duality. This would be contrary to the authority of the > Scriptures. How can there be any display of Maya in Non-dual > Brahman, which is Perfect Stillness, One Whole like the > Ether, Spotless, Actionless, Unstained, and Formless? The > Scriptures even proclaim aloud: ‘THERE IS IN TRUTH NO > CREATION AND NO DESTRUCTION; NO ONE IS BOUND, NO ONE IS > SEEKING LIBERATION, NO ONE IS ON THE WAY TO DELIVERANCE. > THERE ARE NONE LIBERATED. THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.’ My > dear disciple, THIS, The Sum and Substance of ALL The > Upanishads, the Secret of Secrets, is my instruction to you.†> > The Only Love,> Crys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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