Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Dear Gabriele still reflecting about your mail discovered that i missed something to point out. Maybe it does not look like this for you and others - but i fullheartedly agree with what you wrote Ramana points out that one should not examine the waste. Who am I?" does not mean to examine all those things or the "sheats" of the ego: why did this and that happen, what I experience ... but to go back to the true quest - or just surrender. But this in my opinion and in my lifelong experience as working with others this is only valid for those who already have done this thorough selfexamination in all fields of their life. In the way the "feel", react, act, speak, think and so on. This is a very painful process which most humans evade like the devil the baptizing water. Because it shows us how we seemingly really are in daily life. And who wants to see that heshe is full of anger, depression, sadness, illusions and so on??? This evading process is a wellknow factor in medicine, psychology and psychotherapie etc. And this habit of trying to evade what hurts is present even in those who say the believe in nonduality, as so many who state they believe in "God", "love", "the good", "humanity". And something else. On the market of "better livingconscious living" and all those clichees nowadays so much used even NONDUALITY is full of those elements who try "to make their living". And of course due to the "law of attraction" there are many "clients" looking for "help". And so Nonduality is a vessel for superficiality like every other field of life. This is sad for me but have to accept this as fact of being alive. To LIVE bhakti or jnana moment to moment is in itself the most difficult path of life imaginable in the socalled "modern world", Surrendering to IT is sooo easily stated and so difficult done. Because it requires that those who REALLY seek in its truest form had to go thru the process of selfexamination like stated above. There is no way out - other than those wonderful BEINGS like our Sadguru who already has had to have done it in hisher way in socalled past lifes. Only for those "instant" lifiting of the curtain of no-knowledge is possible. If you ask me why i am so interested if others have already done this selfexamination i have to answer you that i myself till now felt this to be a socalled weak point in the texture of my being. But its not true in its fullest. Because having had the GRACE to learn what LOVE is really about all this and other lifes i only some days ago understood deep in my being that this lesson has in itself the other lesson of learning to getting to know what we call in german DAS BOESE the EVIL. GOOD and EVIL are part of the texture of living beings in duality. Of course its not part any more in nonduality. But till the moment of being really ONE in IT we all carry the seed of evil in us. And like the wonderful german philosopher HANNA ARENDT stated the banality of evil is the shocking experience in humans And this, dear Gabriele, michael feels all his life instantly when meetin someone. This is on one hand a gift but on the other hand poisenous, And thats why i till now reacted so really "fed up" with this constant factor in life: when meeting the seeds of evil everywhere; even behind the most wonderful words and deeds..... But due to the experiences in our esteemed SANGHA and due to ongoing contact with wonderful beings like you, Gabriele, i realized that this part in my life is over. The part of being like an alarm-clock for others to be beware of EVIL and to look always to live in a LOVING way. And thats why i will only be ready for decent practical help for anyone if asked in the right way or if experiencing a situation where helping is most natural for beings like i am. Thank you for giving me a helping hand in this situation. Your work as a moderator is indeed Grace. in LOVE in THE ONE AND ONLY michael But this in my experience is to be done by those who already have with all their capacity examined these sheets and all their reaction to life events. This most humans prefer n o t to do - because it HURTS incredible to realize that you yourself have lived in a destructive way. If someone has evaded this search in himherself and still is attracted to nonduality as a philosophical attitude - this phenomena is very often nowadays in the market of "conscious living movement etc" - he will be entrapped and disillusioned soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Dear Michael, I don't think that we are not aware of our faults and weaknesses, kinds of reactions and all you mention. It is only too obvious Certainly life is not easy. But this kind of selfexamination makes things even more complicate, I feel, and there will be no end with it. It engages the mind endlessly and I don't think it makes things or oneself better. Also I find no source where Ramana is suggesting this, in contrary. So I definitely can't agree. Kind regards Gabriele , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > > Dear Gabriele > > still reflecting about your mail discovered that i missed something to point out. > > Maybe it does not look like this for you and others - but > i fullheartedly agree with what you wrote > > > > Ramana points out that one should not examine the waste. > Who am I? " does not mean > to examine all those things or the " sheats " of the ego: > why did this and that happen, what I experience ... > but to go back to the true quest - or just surrender. > > But this in my opinion and in my lifelong experience as working with others this is only valid for those who already have done this thorough selfexamination in all fields of their life. In the way the " feel " , react, act, speak, think and so on. This is a very painful process which most humans evade like the devil the baptizing water. Because it shows us how we seemingly really are in daily life. And who wants to see that heshe is full of anger, depression, sadness, illusions and so on??? > This evading process is a wellknow factor in medicine, psychology and psychotherapie etc. > And this habit of trying to evade what hurts is present even in those who say the believe in nonduality, as so many who state they believe in " God " , " love " , " the good " , " humanity " . > And something else. > On the market of " better living " " conscious living " and all those clichees nowadays so much used even NONDUALITY is full of those elements who try " to make their living " . > And of course due to the " law of attraction " there are many " clients " looking for " help " . > And so Nonduality is a vessel for superficiality like every other field of life. > This is sad for me but have to accept this as fact of being alive. > > To LIVE bhakti or jnana moment to moment is in itself the most difficult path of life imaginable in the socalled " modern world " , > Surrendering to IT is sooo easily stated and so difficult done. > Because it requires that those who REALLY seek in its truest form had to go thru the process of selfexamination like stated above. > There is no way out - other than those wonderful BEINGS like our Sadguru who already has had to have done it in hisher way in socalled past lifes. > Only for those " instant " lifiting of the curtain of no-knowledge is possible. > > If you ask me why i am so interested if others have already done this selfexamination i have to answer you that i myself till now felt this to be a socalled weak point in the texture of my being. > But its not true in its fullest. Because having had the GRACE to learn what LOVE is really about all this and other lifes i only some days ago understood deep in my being that this lesson has in itself the other lesson of learning to getting to know what we call in german DAS BOESE > the EVIL. > GOOD and EVIL are part of the texture of living beings in duality. > Of course its not part any more in nonduality. > But till the moment of being really ONE in IT we all carry the seed of evil in us. > And like the wonderful german philosopher HANNA ARENDT stated the banality of evil is the shocking experience in humans > > And this, dear Gabriele, michael feels all his life instantly when meetin someone. This is on one hand a gift but on the other hand poisenous, > And thats why i till now reacted so really " fed up " with this constant factor in life: when meeting the seeds of evil everywhere; even behind the most wonderful words and deeds..... > > But due to the experiences in our esteemed SANGHA and due to ongoing contact with wonderful beings like you, Gabriele, i realized that this part in my life is over. The part of being like an alarm-clock for others to be beware of EVIL and to look always to live in a LOVING way. > > And thats why i will only be ready for decent practical help for anyone if asked in the right way or if experiencing a situation where helping is most natural for beings like i am. > > Thank you for giving me a helping hand in this situation. > Your work as a moderator is indeed Grace. > > > in LOVE > > in > > THE ONE AND ONLY > > > michael > > > But this in my experience is to be done by those who already have with all their capacity examined these sheets and all their reaction to life events. > This most humans prefer n o t to do - because it HURTS incredible to realize that you yourself have lived in a destructive way. > > If someone has evaded this search in himherself and still is attracted to nonduality as a philosophical attitude - this phenomena is very often nowadays in the market of " conscious living movement etc " - he will be entrapped and disillusioned soon. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Dear Gabriele you cannot find a source of Ramana stating this - because its obvious. Because how else would it be stated, that only sooo few are ready to walk our walk and from those few only very few indeed are ready to give all what they cling to in order to find and live their INNER TRUTH. Regarding stopping monkey mind and its trickster i share that what you expressed. This is obvious too. Maybe you do not share my experience, that UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDERING in a real LOVING WAY (with of course no attachment at all to anything beside GD and those vessels who express this LOVE) i s that what has to be lived if on the path back home?????? But be assured, Gabriele, voices like yours and like some of our friends in our Sangha, did help michael so much to be ready to give what is needed for this walk - and all obstacles in this way are welcomed as Grace by GD thank you for your efforts and for the efforts of alle true seekers around yours in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael - sadhaka1960 Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:03 PM Re: special thanks to our friend GABRIELE Dear Michael,I don't think that we are not aware of our faults and weaknesses, kinds of reactions and all you mention. It is only too obvious Certainly life is not easy. But this kind of selfexamination makes things even more complicate, I feel, and there will be no end with it. It engages the mind endlessly and I don't think it makes things or oneself better. Also I find no source where Ramana is suggesting this, in contrary. So I definitely can't agree. Kind regardsGabriele , "Michael Bindel" <michael.bindel wrote:>> Dear Gabriele> > still reflecting about your mail discovered that i missed something to point out.> > Maybe it does not look like this for you and others - but> i fullheartedly agree with what you wrote> > > > Ramana points out that one should not examine the waste. > Who am I?" does not mean > to examine all those things or the "sheats" of the ego: > why did this and that happen, what I experience ... > but to go back to the true quest - or just surrender.> > But this in my opinion and in my lifelong experience as working with others this is only valid for those who already have done this thorough selfexamination in all fields of their life. In the way the "feel", react, act, speak, think and so on. This is a very painful process which most humans evade like the devil the baptizing water. Because it shows us how we seemingly really are in daily life. And who wants to see that heshe is full of anger, depression, sadness, illusions and so on???> This evading process is a wellknow factor in medicine, psychology and psychotherapie etc.> And this habit of trying to evade what hurts is present even in those who say the believe in nonduality, as so many who state they believe in "God", "love", "the good", "humanity".> And something else.> On the market of "better livingconscious living" and all those clichees nowadays so much used even NONDUALITY is full of those elements who try "to make their living".> And of course due to the "law of attraction" there are many "clients" looking for "help".> And so Nonduality is a vessel for superficiality like every other field of life.> This is sad for me but have to accept this as fact of being alive.> > To LIVE bhakti or jnana moment to moment is in itself the most difficult path of life imaginable in the socalled "modern world",> Surrendering to IT is sooo easily stated and so difficult done.> Because it requires that those who REALLY seek in its truest form had to go thru the process of selfexamination like stated above.> There is no way out - other than those wonderful BEINGS like our Sadguru who already has had to have done it in hisher way in socalled past lifes.> Only for those "instant" lifiting of the curtain of no-knowledge is possible.> > If you ask me why i am so interested if others have already done this selfexamination i have to answer you that i myself till now felt this to be a socalled weak point in the texture of my being.> But its not true in its fullest. Because having had the GRACE to learn what LOVE is really about all this and other lifes i only some days ago understood deep in my being that this lesson has in itself the other lesson of learning to getting to know what we call in german DAS BOESE> the EVIL.> GOOD and EVIL are part of the texture of living beings in duality.> Of course its not part any more in nonduality.> But till the moment of being really ONE in IT we all carry the seed of evil in us.> And like the wonderful german philosopher HANNA ARENDT stated the banality of evil is the shocking experience in humans> > And this, dear Gabriele, michael feels all his life instantly when meetin someone. This is on one hand a gift but on the other hand poisenous,> And thats why i till now reacted so really "fed up" with this constant factor in life: when meeting the seeds of evil everywhere; even behind the most wonderful words and deeds.....> > But due to the experiences in our esteemed SANGHA and due to ongoing contact with wonderful beings like you, Gabriele, i realized that this part in my life is over. The part of being like an alarm-clock for others to be beware of EVIL and to look always to live in a LOVING way.> > And thats why i will only be ready for decent practical help for anyone if asked in the right way or if experiencing a situation where helping is most natural for beings like i am.> > Thank you for giving me a helping hand in this situation.> Your work as a moderator is indeed Grace.> > > in LOVE> > in > > THE ONE AND ONLY> > > michael> > > But this in my experience is to be done by those who already have with all their capacity examined these sheets and all their reaction to life events.> This most humans prefer n o t to do - because it HURTS incredible to realize that you yourself have lived in a destructive way.> > If someone has evaded this search in himherself and still is attracted to nonduality as a philosophical attitude - this phenomena is very often nowadays in the market of "conscious living movement etc" - he will be entrapped and disillusioned soon.> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.34/2462 - Release 10/27/09 07:38:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 , " sadhaka1960 " <g.ebert wrote: > > Dear Michael, > > I don't think that we are not aware of our faults and weaknesses, kinds of reactions and all you mention. It is only too obvious Certainly life is not easy. But this kind of selfexamination makes things even more complicate, I feel, and there will be no end with it. It engages the mind endlessly and I don't think it makes things or oneself better. Also I find no source where Ramana is suggesting this, in contrary. So I definitely can't agree. > > Kind regards > Gabriele > > >> Dear Gabriele, Again,yes, this is it. >> In my understanding there is no other way to handle it. >> Warm regards, Andreas > , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel@> wrote: > > > > Dear Gabriele > > > > still reflecting about your mail discovered that i missed something to point out. > > > > Maybe it does not look like this for you and others - but > > i fullheartedly agree with what you wrote > > > > > > > > Ramana points out that one should not examine the waste. > > Who am I? " does not mean > > to examine all those things or the " sheats " of the ego: > > why did this and that happen, what I experience ... > > but to go back to the true quest - or just surrender. > > > > But this in my opinion and in my lifelong experience as working with others this is only valid for those who already have done this thorough selfexamination in all fields of their life. In the way the " feel " , react, act, speak, think and so on. This is a very painful process which most humans evade like the devil the baptizing water. Because it shows us how we seemingly really are in daily life. And who wants to see that heshe is full of anger, depression, sadness, illusions and so on??? > > This evading process is a wellknow factor in medicine, psychology and psychotherapie etc. > > And this habit of trying to evade what hurts is present even in those who say the believe in nonduality, as so many who state they believe in " God " , " love " , " the good " , " humanity " . > > And something else. > > On the market of " better living " " conscious living " and all those clichees nowadays so much used even NONDUALITY is full of those elements who try " to make their living " . > > And of course due to the " law of attraction " there are many " clients " looking for " help " . > > And so Nonduality is a vessel for superficiality like every other field of life. > > This is sad for me but have to accept this as fact of being alive. > > > > To LIVE bhakti or jnana moment to moment is in itself the most difficult path of life imaginable in the socalled " modern world " , > > Surrendering to IT is sooo easily stated and so difficult done. > > Because it requires that those who REALLY seek in its truest form had to go thru the process of selfexamination like stated above. > > There is no way out - other than those wonderful BEINGS like our Sadguru who already has had to have done it in hisher way in socalled past lifes. > > Only for those " instant " lifiting of the curtain of no-knowledge is possible. > > > > If you ask me why i am so interested if others have already done this selfexamination i have to answer you that i myself till now felt this to be a socalled weak point in the texture of my being. > > But its not true in its fullest. Because having had the GRACE to learn what LOVE is really about all this and other lifes i only some days ago understood deep in my being that this lesson has in itself the other lesson of learning to getting to know what we call in german DAS BOESE > > the EVIL. > > GOOD and EVIL are part of the texture of living beings in duality. > > Of course its not part any more in nonduality. > > But till the moment of being really ONE in IT we all carry the seed of evil in us. > > And like the wonderful german philosopher HANNA ARENDT stated the banality of evil is the shocking experience in humans > > > > And this, dear Gabriele, michael feels all his life instantly when meetin someone. This is on one hand a gift but on the other hand poisenous, > > And thats why i till now reacted so really " fed up " with this constant factor in life: when meeting the seeds of evil everywhere; even behind the most wonderful words and deeds..... > > > > But due to the experiences in our esteemed SANGHA and due to ongoing contact with wonderful beings like you, Gabriele, i realized that this part in my life is over. The part of being like an alarm-clock for others to be beware of EVIL and to look always to live in a LOVING way. > > > > And thats why i will only be ready for decent practical help for anyone if asked in the right way or if experiencing a situation where helping is most natural for beings like i am. > > > > Thank you for giving me a helping hand in this situation. > > Your work as a moderator is indeed Grace. > > > > > > in LOVE > > > > in > > > > THE ONE AND ONLY > > > > > > michael > > > > > > But this in my experience is to be done by those who already have with all their capacity examined these sheets and all their reaction to life events. > > This most humans prefer n o t to do - because it HURTS incredible to realize that you yourself have lived in a destructive way. > > > > If someone has evaded this search in himherself and still is attracted to nonduality as a philosophical attitude - this phenomena is very often nowadays in the market of " conscious living movement etc " - he will be entrapped and disillusioned soon. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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