Points of planets in 6th or 12th from B

[Guest guest]

Dear Krushnaji, Margarita, Philippe,

 

I think there have been umpteen discussion on 6th lord and 12th lord

from house B.

 

In the recent discussion and questions raised by Philippe, and

studying this old post by Sach

 

/message/376

 

I wanted to confirm a point.

 

For eg, in a chart if there are say 4 planets in 6th house say Mars,

Venus, Saturn and Jupiter, and say if we are studying the chart for

marriage, then is it better to have points for Jupiter, Saturn, Venus

and Mars less than 12 so that marraige can be sustained or is it

better for the same planets to have points greater than 12 ?

 

In Sach's reading and analysis on Tex's chart, Moon is in 6th house

but it has 18 points so being in the 6th and with HIGH points can

break a marriage or cause seperation ?

 

Had Moon been with less points and in 6th house, could that have been

a blessing in disguise for the marriage or helped the marriage to

sustain ?

 

Applying similar thought process, to planets in 6th house, for

marriage they are better off having less points than 12 in worksheet ?

 

Could you please confirm the same ?

 

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

[Guest guest]

Hello Ash,

 I think we have focused more on the 2nd

house for divorce, breaking up of marriage or death of the husband/wife; this

because the 2nd is the 8th of the 7th . I

imagine that the 6th is also important being the 12th from

the 7th. But personally I’m not too sure about the whole topic. We

could also look at the 7th which would be the 8th of the

12th …….Planets in the 6th house (12th from

the 7th) will intervene is they have a relationship with the

marriage factors. I suppose if lords of D & E for marriage are located in

the 6th or aspected by the 6th lord, this will influence

the marriage, more so if lords of A,B, or C are related to that 6th lord;

this has to be found out for every case separately.

An other

important matter is the cultural background. In older generations people nearly

never divorced; this was because of religious reasons; now 50% of all marriages

break up. I don’t think marriages in older generations were happier than the

actual ones. People’s outlook and values were different. Girls were also more dependent

on the income of the husband which isn’t the case any more because they study

and graduate to find a good job. So the focus of marriage has certainly changed

and if it is still a “social” event in many countries; things are not the same

as they were. In older times marriage was a “must” because staying single was

not considered acceptable, this has changed too because people live as they

please : staying single but having many friends or partners they can switch

more easily than a real husband or wife. Actually many young people even have

several children without being married.

Generally

speaking planets are better off with more points but even then we cannot get

everything. I recently did a chart for somebody whose wife cheated and left him;

this during a Venus Period with 20 points for the 2nd and 8 points

for the 7th. OK, but he also got a very big promotion at the same

time. We once did a chart where somebody had an important 5th house

matter collecting reward and fame, but he also lost his son !

I see many

charts/worksheets were all planets get very good points and often more then 12

for nearly all houses and these people have miserable lives;(perhaps they rely

on their points to make their charts and life work ????) then I see worksheets

with very low points who seem to get on decently, so I really don’t know.

Points is not everything; we have to get the “feeling” of the chart also to

find out how it will work out in general; there are so many factors involved.

Well, I

hope this answers you question more or less

Best

regards

Margarita

 

 

-----Original

Message-----

ashsam73

<ashsam73 [ashsam73]

Monday, January 20, 2003

8:34 PM

To:

 

Subject:

Points of planets in 6th or 12th from B

 

Dear Krushnaji, Margarita, Philippe,

 

I think there have been umpteen discussion on 6th lord and 12th lord

from house B.

 

In the recent discussion and questions raised by Philippe, and

studying this old post by Sach

 

/message/376

 

I wanted to confirm a point.

 

For eg, in a chart if there are say 4 planets in 6th house say Mars,

Venus, Saturn and Jupiter, and say if we are studying the chart for

marriage, then is it better to have points for Jupiter, Saturn, Venus

and Mars less than 12 so that marraige can be sustained or is it

better for the same planets to have points greater than 12 ?

 

In Sach's reading and analysis on Tex's chart, Moon is in 6th house

but it has 18 points so being in the 6th and with HIGH points can

break a marriage or cause seperation ?

 

Had Moon been with less points and in 6th house, could that have been

a blessing in disguise for the marriage or helped the marriage to

sustain ?

 

Applying similar thought process, to planets in 6th house, for

marriage they are better off having less points than 12 in worksheet ?

 

Could you please confirm the same ?

 

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Margarita,

 

Yes it answered some questions but its brought up so many more

questions.

 

Maybe its my lack of experience, because I have not seen a chart

which gives good points for pretty much all the houses but the lives

are miserable and similarly the other way around.

 

Yes, last night I was going through some old archives and discussions

that You, Sanjay, Christian, Silvia, Sandy, Donna, Peter and

Krushnaji had on a couple of things.

 

1) Sanjay and Krushnaji had a good discussion on 4:10 relationship

and how it could changes the entire chart. I beleive Sanjay had

given a worksheet for 6th house having good points but Krushnaji said

that that native could not do a post of authority and basically it

was not as rosy as it seemed. (Ron's chart Shani and Guru, and how

during Shani's antra it obstructed Karaktwa of Guru becuase it was

4:10 relationship but Planet in 10th had more bindus than planet in

4th from it).

 

2) In discussion regarding Ron's chart, and though I still have to do

that exercise myself, I wanted to first brush up on my basics before

I attempted that. But I did go through some posts especially

regarding Marriage. There was a seperation (not permenant).

Krushnaji had picked that up from the chart and said something of

VIYOG (I dont know what that means ???) and saw that from 7th house,

that happened during antra of Mercury and Mercury had only 7 points

for 7th house.

 

Definitely, Worksheet is the last thing we should check and worksheet

because worksheet gives us powerful significators that can deliver

results during their antras.

 

The reason for me asking basic question on Points in 6th house,

because, I am still finding it hard to judge things when planets are

in 6th house or 6th lord. The charts that Philippe had put forward

and his questions also made me think regarding 6th house and its

lord.

 

I have seen though not in 100's of charts but the little experience

that I have, is that in some instances associations with 6th lords

cause delays, in some cases its changed the nature of planet for

example, Shani the delay causing planet when placed in 6th even

though its causing delay i.e. full blown (27.5 years delay) can

change its nature and may give early marriage (after 18).

 

So, then I also thought about the post in which we had discussed and

its been also told by Krushnaji regarding considering 6th lord in 6th

as 8 - bindus. I was pondering about that fact. In essence when we

take 8 - bindus, basically what we have done is changed its entire

nature. So taking 1 more step ahead, can planets being placed in 6th

house also be treated as reversing their nature, and taking it one

more step further, does that mean that planets in 6th house or 12th

from 7th, is it better for them to have less than 12 points in the

worksheet so that to keep them from becoming strong significators to

do more damage than good ? Because if they become strong then they

will deliver results during their antra or if they are samdharmi to a

strong significator. Even when they get more than 12 points they can

become samdharmi, but if the have less than 12 points they will not

take up the role of being samdharmi so cant step forward to do more

damage ? So I wanted to confirm if I was on the right track in my

thinking.

 

This is where I got stuck up in my thought process. Before I go any

further I wanted to make sure that I am not getting way off.....?

 

Margarita, I do understand that a chart is not just black and white,

but I am trying to understand the philosophy, thats all.

 

I really want to understand or resolve this enigma of 6th house ..

till then, I'll ask questions untill its resolved in my mind (he he

he)

 

Cheers !!!

Ash

 

 

, " dmlettens "

<dmlettens@s...> wrote:

> Hello Ash,

> I think we have focused more on the 2nd house for divorce,

breaking up of

> marriage or death of the husband/wife; this because the 2nd is the

8th of

> the 7th . I imagine that the 6th is also important being the 12th

from the

> 7th. But personally I'm not too sure about the whole topic. We

could also

> look at the 7th which would be the 8th of the 12th …….Planets in

the 6th

> house (12th from the 7th) will intervene is they have a

relationship with

> the marriage factors. I suppose if lords of D & E for marriage are

located

> in the 6th or aspected by the 6th lord, this will influence the

marriage,

> more so if lords of A,B, or C are related to that 6th lord; this

has to be

> found out for every case separately.

> An other important matter is the cultural background. In older

generations

> people nearly never divorced; this was because of religious

reasons; now 50%

> of all marriages break up. I don't think marriages in older

generations were

> happier than the actual ones. People's outlook and values were

different.

> Girls were also more dependent on the income of the husband which

isn't the

> case any more because they study and graduate to find a good job.

So the

> focus of marriage has certainly changed and if it is still

a " social " event

> in many countries; things are not the same as they were. In older

times

> marriage was a " must " because staying single was not considered

acceptable,

> this has changed too because people live as they please : staying

single but

> having many friends or partners they can switch more easily than a

real

> husband or wife. Actually many young people even have several

children

> without being married.

> Generally speaking planets are better off with more points but even

then we

> cannot get everything. I recently did a chart for somebody whose

wife

> cheated and left him; this during a Venus Period with 20 points for

the 2nd

> and 8 points for the 7th. OK, but he also got a very big promotion

at the

> same time. We once did a chart where somebody had an important 5th

house

> matter collecting reward and fame, but he also lost his son !

> I see many charts/worksheets were all planets get very good points

and often

> more then 12 for nearly all houses and these people have miserable

> lives;(perhaps they rely on their points to make their charts and

life work

> ????) then I see worksheets with very low points who seem to get on

> decently, so I really don't know. Points is not everything; we have

to get

> the " feeling " of the chart also to find out how it will work out in

general;

> there are so many factors involved.

> Well, I hope this answers you question more or less

> Best regards

> Margarita

>

>

>

> ashsam73 <ashsam73@h...> [ashsam73@h...]

> Monday, January 20, 2003 8:34 PM

>

> Points of planets in 6th or

12th from B

>

> Dear Krushnaji, Margarita, Philippe,

>

> I think there have been umpteen discussion on 6th lord and 12th lord

> from house B.

>

> In the recent discussion and questions raised by Philippe, and

> studying this old post by Sach

>

> /message/376

>

> I wanted to confirm a point.

>

> For eg, in a chart if there are say 4 planets in 6th house say Mars,

> Venus, Saturn and Jupiter, and say if we are studying the chart for

> marriage, then is it better to have points for Jupiter, Saturn,

Venus

> and Mars less than 12 so that marraige can be sustained or is it

> better for the same planets to have points greater than 12 ?

>

> In Sach's reading and analysis on Tex's chart, Moon is in 6th house

> but it has 18 points so being in the 6th and with HIGH points can

> break a marriage or cause seperation ?

>

> Had Moon been with less points and in 6th house, could that have

been

> a blessing in disguise for the marriage or helped the marriage to

> sustain ?

>

> Applying similar thought process, to planets in 6th house, for

> marriage they are better off having less points than 12 in

worksheet ?

>

> Could you please confirm the same ?

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Asham,

 

There is another answer to this problem. Perhaps the worksheet doesn't work

at all? I have made many experiences with the Krushna teachings. I have

re-written everything in a synthetic way. This is my current view:

 

TOOLS WHICH WORK

* The concept about upachayas houses is excellent.

* The aspect from the lord of the 12th house from the house B works very

well (lord of 6th aspecting the 7th house, etc).

* The Krushna ayanamsa (or the J.N. Bhasin one, which is very close) seems

to work beautifully. In spite the fact there is no known rationale

underlying them)

 

TOOLS WHICH DO NOT WORK

* The worksheet doesn't work.

* The method to read the Divisional charts has to be re-defined.

* The way to analyse the lord of the dasha diesn't work very well.

* The technique to link the lord of the dasa and the lord of the bukthi

doesn't really exist.

 

Sorry to be so direct. I am ready to accept I do not understand some parts

of the system.

 

Denis

 

 

 

 

 

Pour des renseignements sur les séminaires, les consultations et les cours

par correspondance, ainsi que pour des logiciels et des leçonsd'astrologie

gratuits, visitez mon site : www.astrocours.fr.st

-

<ashsam73

 

Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:25 PM

Re: Points of planets in 6th or 12th

from B

 

 

Dear Margarita,

 

Yes it answered some questions but its brought up so many more

questions.

 

Maybe its my lack of experience, because I have not seen a chart

which gives good points for pretty much all the houses but the lives

are miserable and similarly the other way around.

 

Yes, last night I was going through some old archives and discussions

that You, Sanjay, Christian, Silvia, Sandy, Donna, Peter and

Krushnaji had on a couple of things.

 

1) Sanjay and Krushnaji had a good discussion on 4:10 relationship

and how it could changes the entire chart. I beleive Sanjay had

given a worksheet for 6th house having good points but Krushnaji said

that that native could not do a post of authority and basically it

was not as rosy as it seemed. (Ron's chart Shani and Guru, and how

during Shani's antra it obstructed Karaktwa of Guru becuase it was

4:10 relationship but Planet in 10th had more bindus than planet in

4th from it).

 

2) In discussion regarding Ron's chart, and though I still have to do

that exercise myself, I wanted to first brush up on my basics before

I attempted that. But I did go through some posts especially

regarding Marriage. There was a seperation (not permenant).

Krushnaji had picked that up from the chart and said something of

VIYOG (I dont know what that means ???) and saw that from 7th house,

that happened during antra of Mercury and Mercury had only 7 points

for 7th house.

 

Definitely, Worksheet is the last thing we should check and worksheet

because worksheet gives us powerful significators that can deliver

results during their antras.

 

The reason for me asking basic question on Points in 6th house,

because, I am still finding it hard to judge things when planets are

in 6th house or 6th lord. The charts that Philippe had put forward

and his questions also made me think regarding 6th house and its

lord.

 

I have seen though not in 100's of charts but the little experience

that I have, is that in some instances associations with 6th lords

cause delays, in some cases its changed the nature of planet for

example, Shani the delay causing planet when placed in 6th even

though its causing delay i.e. full blown (27.5 years delay) can

change its nature and may give early marriage (after 18).

 

So, then I also thought about the post in which we had discussed and

its been also told by Krushnaji regarding considering 6th lord in 6th

as 8 - bindus. I was pondering about that fact. In essence when we

take 8 - bindus, basically what we have done is changed its entire

nature. So taking 1 more step ahead, can planets being placed in 6th

house also be treated as reversing their nature, and taking it one

more step further, does that mean that planets in 6th house or 12th

from 7th, is it better for them to have less than 12 points in the

worksheet so that to keep them from becoming strong significators to

do more damage than good ? Because if they become strong then they

will deliver results during their antra or if they are samdharmi to a

strong significator. Even when they get more than 12 points they can

become samdharmi, but if the have less than 12 points they will not

take up the role of being samdharmi so cant step forward to do more

damage ? So I wanted to confirm if I was on the right track in my

thinking.

 

This is where I got stuck up in my thought process. Before I go any

further I wanted to make sure that I am not getting way off.....?

 

Margarita, I do understand that a chart is not just black and white,

but I am trying to understand the philosophy, thats all.

 

I really want to understand or resolve this enigma of 6th house ..

till then, I'll ask questions untill its resolved in my mind (he he

he)

 

Cheers !!!

Ash

 

 

, " dmlettens "

<dmlettens@s...> wrote:

> Hello Ash,

> I think we have focused more on the 2nd house for divorce,

breaking up of

> marriage or death of the husband/wife; this because the 2nd is the

8th of

> the 7th . I imagine that the 6th is also important being the 12th

from the

> 7th. But personally I'm not too sure about the whole topic. We

could also

> look at the 7th which would be the 8th of the 12th ...Planets in

the 6th

> house (12th from the 7th) will intervene is they have a

relationship with

> the marriage factors. I suppose if lords of D & E for marriage are

located

> in the 6th or aspected by the 6th lord, this will influence the

marriage,

> more so if lords of A,B, or C are related to that 6th lord; this

has to be

> found out for every case separately.

> An other important matter is the cultural background. In older

generations

> people nearly never divorced; this was because of religious

reasons; now 50%

> of all marriages break up. I don't think marriages in older

generations were

> happier than the actual ones. People's outlook and values were

different.

> Girls were also more dependent on the income of the husband which

isn't the

> case any more because they study and graduate to find a good job.

So the

> focus of marriage has certainly changed and if it is still

a " social " event

> in many countries; things are not the same as they were. In older

times

> marriage was a " must " because staying single was not considered

acceptable,

> this has changed too because people live as they please : staying

single but

> having many friends or partners they can switch more easily than a

real

> husband or wife. Actually many young people even have several

children

> without being married.

> Generally speaking planets are better off with more points but even

then we

> cannot get everything. I recently did a chart for somebody whose

wife

> cheated and left him; this during a Venus Period with 20 points for

the 2nd

> and 8 points for the 7th. OK, but he also got a very big promotion

at the

> same time. We once did a chart where somebody had an important 5th

house

> matter collecting reward and fame, but he also lost his son !

> I see many charts/worksheets were all planets get very good points

and often

> more then 12 for nearly all houses and these people have miserable

> lives;(perhaps they rely on their points to make their charts and

life work

> ????) then I see worksheets with very low points who seem to get on

> decently, so I really don't know. Points is not everything; we have

to get

> the " feeling " of the chart also to find out how it will work out in

general;

> there are so many factors involved.

> Well, I hope this answers you question more or less

> Best regards

> Margarita

>

>

>

> ashsam73 <ashsam73@h...> [ashsam73@h...]

> Monday, January 20, 2003 8:34 PM

>

> Points of planets in 6th or

12th from B

>

> Dear Krushnaji, Margarita, Philippe,

>

> I think there have been umpteen discussion on 6th lord and 12th lord

> from house B.

>

> In the recent discussion and questions raised by Philippe, and

> studying this old post by Sach

>

> /message/376

>

> I wanted to confirm a point.

>

> For eg, in a chart if there are say 4 planets in 6th house say Mars,

> Venus, Saturn and Jupiter, and say if we are studying the chart for

> marriage, then is it better to have points for Jupiter, Saturn,

Venus

> and Mars less than 12 so that marraige can be sustained or is it

> better for the same planets to have points greater than 12 ?

>

> In Sach's reading and analysis on Tex's chart, Moon is in 6th house

> but it has 18 points so being in the 6th and with HIGH points can

> break a marriage or cause seperation ?

>

> Had Moon been with less points and in 6th house, could that have

been

> a blessing in disguise for the marriage or helped the marriage to

> sustain ?

>

> Applying similar thought process, to planets in 6th house, for

> marriage they are better off having less points than 12 in

worksheet ?

>

> Could you please confirm the same ?

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Asham and Margarita,

 

This is the last test sent by Dymock Brose. What was the way to find the

right answer? Philippe and myself were wrong. Next time, we could work on

the next exercise on the list.

 

Thanks a lot

Denis

 

 

The Test concerns a woman born in Lansing, Michigan (42N44 84W33), on 10

Nov. 1949 at 6:51 am EST (Asc 10Sc36, MC 20Le06, Moon 9Cn34).

 

Here are three major events in her life, and three dates, each one of which

relates to one of the events. The Test is to match the event with the

correct date.

 

The three events are -

1. She started a new job as a nurse in a cancer ward.

2. She had surgery to remove a uterine tumour.

3. Her husband left her suddenly.

The three dates are -

¨ 26 April 1999

¨ 17 October 1992

¨ 14 December 1999.

Can you match the dates to the events?

 

THE RIGHT ANSWERS WERE:

 

1. On 14 Dec 1999 the woman started a new job as a nurse in a cancer ward.

 

2. On 26 April 1999 she underwent surgery for the removal of a uterine

tumour.

 

3. On 17 Oct 1992 her husband left her suddenly.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dennis,

 

I am kinda curious to understand why do you say that

 

>TOOLS WHICH DO NOT WORK

> * The worksheet doesn't work.

> * The method to read the Divisional charts has to be re-defined.

> * The way to analyse the lord of the dasha diesn't work very well.

> * The technique to link the lord of the dasa and the lord of the

bukthi

> doesn't really exist

 

1) There are about 4000 messages in this list and mostly Worksheet

has been used and Krushnaji has predicted mostly all events correctly

using worksheet being the main tool.

 

Basically, WE probably do not know how to use the worksheet.

 

2) Divisional Charts, havent been taught as a lesson. Atleast I have

not seen any lesson on it. We probably need to go into Divisional

Charts after getting basic indications from Rasi and Navamsa. I

would think that Krushnaji would give us a lesson on that topic in

time. Similarly with Medical astrology and I have seen reference

made to degrees of planets, but thouse probably would be seperate

lessons. So I think we would have to wait. It is the few active

members that are trying to go deep into the system, and I think we

have just touched the tip of the iceberg of this system.

 

3) You have said, way of Dasha's does not work well. Again, we

probably do not know how to use and link Mahadasha and antra.

 

From what I know is that Mahadasha gives the Karaktwa, Mahadasha

swami, planets in house with > 5 points, their karakatwa etc. So

results of antra will be based on that. In chart given by Philippe,

regarding the fact that When Jupiter's Mahadasha started and Venus

antra in Guru's mahadasha which being 12th from 12th house or loss to

12th house significance reduced that effect, now based on that you

can judge the antra which would have that flavour. So a technique

was demonstrated and its for us subtly.

 

4) What makes you say that technique of linking Mahadasha and antra

does not exist ? What about death ? We do take the Mahadasha to be

Lord of 3rd house or its samdharmi based on certain laws.

So we just cannot say that there is no method to link antra to

Mahadasha.

 

Why dont we work harder to understand these things. I am glad u

brought these questions up, so now we can focus on the areas that

need further clarifications.

 

Dennis, please put forward charts so we all can discuss and learn the

above points and maybe Krushnaji can guide us where we dont get an

answer.

 

 

Thanks for listening,

Cheers !!!

Ash

 

ps : Please call me Ash.

 

, Denis Labouré

<Laboure@W...> wrote:

> Dear Asham,

>

> There is another answer to this problem. Perhaps the worksheet

doesn't work

> at all? I have made many experiences with the Krushna teachings. I

have

> re-written everything in a synthetic way. This is my current view:

>

> TOOLS WHICH WORK

> * The concept about upachayas houses is excellent.

> * The aspect from the lord of the 12th house from the house B works

very

> well (lord of 6th aspecting the 7th house, etc).

> * The Krushna ayanamsa (or the J.N. Bhasin one, which is very

close) seems

> to work beautifully. In spite the fact there is no known rationale

> underlying them)

>

> TOOLS WHICH DO NOT WORK

> * The worksheet doesn't work.

> * The method to read the Divisional charts has to be re-defined.

> * The way to analyse the lord of the dasha diesn't work very well.

> * The technique to link the lord of the dasa and the lord of the

bukthi

> doesn't really exist.

>

> Sorry to be so direct. I am ready to accept I do not understand

some parts

> of the system.

>

> Denis

>

>

>

>

>

> Pour des renseignements sur les séminaires, les consultations et

les cours

> par correspondance, ainsi que pour des logiciels et des

leçonsd'astrologie

> gratuits, visitez mon site : www.astrocours.fr.st

> -

> <ashsam73@h...>

>

> Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:25 PM

> Re: Points of planets in 6th or

12th

> from B

>

>

> Dear Margarita,

>

> Yes it answered some questions but its brought up so many more

> questions.

>

> Maybe its my lack of experience, because I have not seen a chart

> which gives good points for pretty much all the houses but the lives

> are miserable and similarly the other way around.

>

> Yes, last night I was going through some old archives and

discussions

> that You, Sanjay, Christian, Silvia, Sandy, Donna, Peter and

> Krushnaji had on a couple of things.

>

> 1) Sanjay and Krushnaji had a good discussion on 4:10 relationship

> and how it could changes the entire chart. I beleive Sanjay had

> given a worksheet for 6th house having good points but Krushnaji

said

> that that native could not do a post of authority and basically it

> was not as rosy as it seemed. (Ron's chart Shani and Guru, and how

> during Shani's antra it obstructed Karaktwa of Guru becuase it was

> 4:10 relationship but Planet in 10th had more bindus than planet in

> 4th from it).

>

> 2) In discussion regarding Ron's chart, and though I still have to

do

> that exercise myself, I wanted to first brush up on my basics before

> I attempted that. But I did go through some posts especially

> regarding Marriage. There was a seperation (not permenant).

> Krushnaji had picked that up from the chart and said something of

> VIYOG (I dont know what that means ???) and saw that from 7th house,

> that happened during antra of Mercury and Mercury had only 7 points

> for 7th house.

>

> Definitely, Worksheet is the last thing we should check and

worksheet

> because worksheet gives us powerful significators that can deliver

> results during their antras.

>

> The reason for me asking basic question on Points in 6th house,

> because, I am still finding it hard to judge things when planets are

> in 6th house or 6th lord. The charts that Philippe had put forward

> and his questions also made me think regarding 6th house and its

> lord.

>

> I have seen though not in 100's of charts but the little experience

> that I have, is that in some instances associations with 6th lords

> cause delays, in some cases its changed the nature of planet for

> example, Shani the delay causing planet when placed in 6th even

> though its causing delay i.e. full blown (27.5 years delay) can

> change its nature and may give early marriage (after 18).

>

> So, then I also thought about the post in which we had discussed and

> its been also told by Krushnaji regarding considering 6th lord in

6th

> as 8 - bindus. I was pondering about that fact. In essence when we

> take 8 - bindus, basically what we have done is changed its entire

> nature. So taking 1 more step ahead, can planets being placed in

6th

> house also be treated as reversing their nature, and taking it one

> more step further, does that mean that planets in 6th house or 12th

> from 7th, is it better for them to have less than 12 points in the

> worksheet so that to keep them from becoming strong significators to

> do more damage than good ? Because if they become strong then they

> will deliver results during their antra or if they are samdharmi to

a

> strong significator. Even when they get more than 12 points they

can

> become samdharmi, but if the have less than 12 points they will not

> take up the role of being samdharmi so cant step forward to do more

> damage ? So I wanted to confirm if I was on the right track in my

> thinking.

>

> This is where I got stuck up in my thought process. Before I go any

> further I wanted to make sure that I am not getting way off.....?

>

> Margarita, I do understand that a chart is not just black and white,

> but I am trying to understand the philosophy, thats all.

>

> I really want to understand or resolve this enigma of 6th house ..

> till then, I'll ask questions untill its resolved in my mind (he he

> he)

>

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

>

> , " dmlettens "

> <dmlettens@s...> wrote:

> > Hello Ash,

> > I think we have focused more on the 2nd house for divorce,

> breaking up of

> > marriage or death of the husband/wife; this because the 2nd is the

> 8th of

> > the 7th . I imagine that the 6th is also important being the 12th

> from the

> > 7th. But personally I'm not too sure about the whole topic. We

> could also

> > look at the 7th which would be the 8th of the 12th ...Planets in

> the 6th

> > house (12th from the 7th) will intervene is they have a

> relationship with

> > the marriage factors. I suppose if lords of D & E for marriage are

> located

> > in the 6th or aspected by the 6th lord, this will influence the

> marriage,

> > more so if lords of A,B, or C are related to that 6th lord; this

> has to be

> > found out for every case separately.

> > An other important matter is the cultural background. In older

> generations

> > people nearly never divorced; this was because of religious

> reasons; now 50%

> > of all marriages break up. I don't think marriages in older

> generations were

> > happier than the actual ones. People's outlook and values were

> different.

> > Girls were also more dependent on the income of the husband which

> isn't the

> > case any more because they study and graduate to find a good job.

> So the

> > focus of marriage has certainly changed and if it is still

> a " social " event

> > in many countries; things are not the same as they were. In older

> times

> > marriage was a " must " because staying single was not considered

> acceptable,

> > this has changed too because people live as they please : staying

> single but

> > having many friends or partners they can switch more easily than a

> real

> > husband or wife. Actually many young people even have several

> children

> > without being married.

> > Generally speaking planets are better off with more points but

even

> then we

> > cannot get everything. I recently did a chart for somebody whose

> wife

> > cheated and left him; this during a Venus Period with 20 points

for

> the 2nd

> > and 8 points for the 7th. OK, but he also got a very big promotion

> at the

> > same time. We once did a chart where somebody had an important 5th

> house

> > matter collecting reward and fame, but he also lost his son !

> > I see many charts/worksheets were all planets get very good points

> and often

> > more then 12 for nearly all houses and these people have miserable

> > lives;(perhaps they rely on their points to make their charts and

> life work

> > ????) then I see worksheets with very low points who seem to get

on

> > decently, so I really don't know. Points is not everything; we

have

> to get

> > the " feeling " of the chart also to find out how it will work out

in

> general;

> > there are so many factors involved.

> > Well, I hope this answers you question more or less

> > Best regards

> > Margarita

> >

> >

> >

> > ashsam73 <ashsam73@h...> [ashsam73@h...]

> > Monday, January 20, 2003 8:34 PM

> >

> > Points of planets in 6th or

> 12th from B

> >

> > Dear Krushnaji, Margarita, Philippe,

> >

> > I think there have been umpteen discussion on 6th lord and 12th

lord

> > from house B.

> >

> > In the recent discussion and questions raised by Philippe, and

> > studying this old post by Sach

> >

> > /message/376

> >

> > I wanted to confirm a point.

> >

> > For eg, in a chart if there are say 4 planets in 6th house say

Mars,

> > Venus, Saturn and Jupiter, and say if we are studying the chart

for

> > marriage, then is it better to have points for Jupiter, Saturn,

> Venus

> > and Mars less than 12 so that marraige can be sustained or is it

> > better for the same planets to have points greater than 12 ?

> >

> > In Sach's reading and analysis on Tex's chart, Moon is in 6th

house

> > but it has 18 points so being in the 6th and with HIGH points can

> > break a marriage or cause seperation ?

> >

> > Had Moon been with less points and in 6th house, could that have

> been

> > a blessing in disguise for the marriage or helped the marriage to

> > sustain ?

> >

> > Applying similar thought process, to planets in 6th house, for

> > marriage they are better off having less points than 12 in

> worksheet ?

> >

> > Could you please confirm the same ?

> >

> > Thanking you,

> > Cheers !!!

> > Ash

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hello Ash,

Sorry to

bring up more questions !!!!

If I

remember well the problem in Ron’s chart about separation was the placement of

Jupiter in Libra. I also lost Ron’s data to a virus but as it was one of the

charts we did to start with I remember a very strong Saturn and events

happening around the same dates (3th of march ??)

Worksheet

is only to use for the result. “Quality” of the chart is seen through other

factors. Ex. A planet can be very unhappy if associated with Saturn, lords of 6th

and/or 2nd and badly placed or aspected even if it can score good points in the

worksheet. The again this unhappy planet will give good results for some houses

and bad results for others. Nothing is entirely positive or negative in life.

As to the 6th lord himself, I think there are also other subtleties.

Jupiter is particularly bad for Cancer and Libra ascendant; this I remember

from the mails; this of course also because he aspects 3 houses. So it’s better

to have a 6th lord who only aspects 1 house.

Well I

hope you will work things out but don’t focus too much on small details because

this complicate things more.

Best

regards

Margarita

 

-----Original

Message-----

ashsam73

<ashsam73 [ashsam73]

Tuesday, January 21, 2003

4:25 PM

 

Subject:

Re: Points of planets in 6th or 12th from B

 

Dear Margarita,

 

Yes it answered some questions but its brought up so many more

questions.

 

Maybe its my lack of experience, because I have not seen a chart

which gives good points for pretty much all the houses but the lives

are miserable and similarly the other way around.

 

Yes, last night I was going through some old archives and discussions

that You, Sanjay, Christian, Silvia, Sandy, Donna, Peter and

Krushnaji had on a couple of things.

 

1) Sanjay and Krushnaji had a good discussion on 4:10 relationship

and how it could changes the entire chart. I beleive Sanjay had

given a worksheet for 6th house having good points but Krushnaji said

that that native could not do a post of authority and basically it

was not as rosy as it seemed. (Ron's chart Shani and Guru, and how

during Shani's antra it obstructed Karaktwa of Guru becuase it was

4:10 relationship but Planet in 10th had more bindus than planet in

4th from it).

 

2) In discussion regarding Ron's chart, and though I still have to do

that exercise myself, I wanted to first brush up on my basics before

I attempted that. But I did go through some posts especially

regarding Marriage. There was a seperation (not permenant).

Krushnaji had picked that up from the chart and said something of

VIYOG (I dont know what that means ???) and saw that from 7th house,

that happened during antra of Mercury and Mercury had only 7 points

for 7th house.

 

Definitely, Worksheet is the last thing we should check and worksheet

because worksheet gives us powerful significators that can deliver

results during their antras.

 

The reason for me asking basic question on Points in 6th house,

because, I am still finding it hard to judge things when planets are

in 6th house or 6th lord. The charts that Philippe had put forward

and his questions also made me think regarding 6th house and its

lord.

 

I have seen though not in 100's of charts but the little experience

that I have, is that in some instances associations with 6th lords

cause delays, in some cases its changed the nature of planet for

example, Shani the delay causing planet when placed in 6th even

though its causing delay i.e. full blown (27.5 years delay) can

change its nature and may give early marriage (after 18).

 

So, then I also thought about the post in which we had discussed and

its been also told by Krushnaji regarding considering 6th lord in 6th

as 8 - bindus. I was pondering about that fact. In essence when

we

take 8 - bindus, basically what we have done is changed its entire

nature. So taking 1 more step ahead, can planets being placed in 6th

house also be treated as reversing their nature, and taking it one

more step further, does that mean that planets in 6th house or 12th

from 7th, is it better for them to have less than 12 points in the

worksheet so that to keep them from becoming strong significators to

do more damage than good ? Because if they become strong then they

will deliver results during their antra or if they are samdharmi to a

strong significator. Even when they get more than 12 points they can

become samdharmi, but if the have less than 12 points they will not

take up the role of being samdharmi so cant step forward to do more

damage ? So I wanted to confirm if I was on the right track in my

thinking.

 

This is where I got stuck up in my thought process. Before I go any

further I wanted to make sure that I am not getting way off.....?

 

Margarita, I do understand that a chart is not just black and white,

but I am trying to understand the philosophy, thats all.

 

I really want to understand or resolve this enigma of 6th house ..

till then, I'll ask questions untill its resolved in my mind (he he

he)

 

Cheers !!!

Ash

 

 

, " dmlettens "

<dmlettens@s...> wrote:

> Hello Ash,

> I think we have focused more on the 2nd house for divorce,

breaking up of

> marriage or death of the husband/wife; this because the 2nd is the

8th of

> the 7th . I imagine that the 6th is also important being the 12th

from the

> 7th. But personally I'm not too sure about the whole topic. We

could also

> look at the 7th which would be the 8th of the 12th …….Planets in

the 6th

> house (12th from the 7th) will intervene is they have a

relationship with

> the marriage factors. I suppose if lords of D & E for marriage are

 

located

> in the 6th or aspected by the 6th lord, this will influence the

marriage,

> more so if lords of A,B, or C are related to that 6th lord; this

has to be

> found out for every case separately.

> An other important matter is the cultural background. In older

generations

> people nearly never divorced; this was because of religious

reasons; now 50%

> of all marriages break up. I don't think marriages in older

generations were

> happier than the actual ones. People's outlook and values were

different.

> Girls were also more dependent on the income of the husband which

isn't the

> case any more because they study and graduate to find a good job.

So the

> focus of marriage has certainly changed and if it is still

a " social " event

> in many countries; things are not the same as they were. In older

times

> marriage was a " must " because staying single was not

considered

acceptable,

> this has changed too because people live as they please : staying

single but

> having many friends or partners they can switch more easily than a

real

> husband or wife. Actually many young people even have several

children

> without being married.

> Generally speaking planets are better off with more points but even

then we

> cannot get everything. I recently did a chart for somebody whose

wife

> cheated and left him; this during a Venus Period with 20 points for

the 2nd

> and 8 points for the 7th. OK, but he also got a very big promotion

at the

> same time. We once did a chart where somebody had an important 5th

house

> matter collecting reward and fame, but he also lost his son !

> I see many charts/worksheets were all planets get very good points

and often

> more then 12 for nearly all houses and these people have miserable

> lives;(perhaps they rely on their points to make their charts and

life work

> ????) then I see worksheets with very low points who seem to get on

> decently, so I really don't know. Points is not everything; we have

to get

> the " feeling " of the chart also to find out how it will work

out in

general;

> there are so many factors involved.

> Well, I hope this answers you question more or less

> Best regards

> Margarita

>

>

>

> ashsam73 <ashsam73@h...> [ashsam73@h...]

> Monday, January 20, 2003 8:34 PM

>

> Points of planets in 6th or

12th from B

>

> Dear Krushnaji, Margarita, Philippe,

>

> I think there have been umpteen discussion on 6th lord and 12th lord

> from house B.

>

> In the recent discussion and questions raised by Philippe, and

> studying this old post by Sach

>

> /message/376

>

> I wanted to confirm a point.

>

> For eg, in a chart if there are say 4 planets in 6th house say Mars,

> Venus, Saturn and Jupiter, and say if we are studying the chart for

> marriage, then is it better to have points for Jupiter, Saturn,

Venus

> and Mars less than 12 so that marraige can be sustained or is it

> better for the same planets to have points greater than 12 ?

>

> In Sach's reading and analysis on Tex's chart, Moon is in 6th house

> but it has 18 points so being in the 6th and with HIGH points can

> break a marriage or cause seperation ?

>

> Had Moon been with less points and in 6th house, could that have

been

> a blessing in disguise for the marriage or helped the marriage to

> sustain ?

>

> Applying similar thought process, to planets in 6th house, for

> marriage they are better off having less points than 12 in

worksheet ?

>

> Could you please confirm the same ?

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

OK. An event may be given by:

* the lords of D and E

* the planets in D and E with more 4 points

* a high-score planet in the worksheet which doesn't aspect houses A, B and

C.

* a high-score planet in the worksheet, in spite the fact it aspect houses

A, B and C.

* any planet in sandharmi with them

* a low-score planet (for a bad mariage)

etc.

 

So, from the 4000 messages you make reference to, could you give a strict

procedure to use the worksheet in an efficient way?

 

Thanks a lot

Denis

 

 

 

 

Dear Dennis,

 

I am kinda curious to understand why do you say that

 

>TOOLS WHICH DO NOT WORK

> * The worksheet doesn't work.

> * The method to read the Divisional charts has to be re-defined.

> * The way to analyse the lord of the dasha diesn't work very well.

> * The technique to link the lord of the dasa and the lord of the

bukthi

> doesn't really exist

 

1) There are about 4000 messages in this list and mostly Worksheet

has been used and Krushnaji has predicted mostly all events correctly

using worksheet being the main tool.

 

Basically, WE probably do not know how to use the worksheet.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dennis,

 

The strictest procedure is experience.

 

The strictest procedure would be to keep a list as you are doing, and

keep that list growing as an when you learn something new as new

things will always come up. That will come with time and more

experience on the part of solving more charts and if things dont work

finding a reason from this AV system and documenting it as an

additional point in the list.

 

If you notice, how many times has the lesson on samdharmi been

written ? How many points came up as a result of discussion by all

members. So I hope that should answers your question.

 

From the 4000+ posts you can continue to make notes and keep them

growing. Maybe in a few years you may capture most of it. But that

list will keep growing as we learn something new every time or with

every chart.

 

I do not think, that we can learn everything or any system in a short

span of 2-3 years that too on the internet though we can try.

 

Guidance is different from spoon feeding thats my opinion. Plus I am

not a master of this system. Just like you I am a student. I accept

the way Krushnaji teaches the system and If my understanding is not

apt, or I cant understand why an event has not occured during a

particular time period based on my calculations the I put forward the

question on the list and hope that I receive an answer.

 

If you will notice that I asked a question about why Venus gave

result in the chart Philippe gave ? Venus is LOE, its in Sign of 6th

lord in Navamsa, it has low points, but is LOE, so why did it give a

marriage, and if it gave what would be the final outcome ?

 

From this question I felt that either there is something blatently

obvious that I am missing or is there finer point here that we may

get to learn ?

 

In an old post, Krushnaji has said that lessons are given but finer

things and points that are missing or have been overlooked will come

out as charts are being discussed.

 

In most cases these laws that you have given will work, and you with

your experience with this sytem probably can say. Atleast they work

well with charts of Indians in most cases. West is another story all

together as things are not so clear cut or well defined. Its only

going to be research work on our part being in the west to say with

confidence that such is such. Desha, Kaal and Patra is very

important. Things in France is differnt from here in Canada which is

differnt from India. What is the common ground ? How do we define

marriage ? Can we call common law as marraige ? Can we say couples

living for over 1 solar year together and being seen in public that

relationship as marraige ? Maybe the girl in the

relationship " thinks " of the guy as her husband though not married

and the guy thinks of her just as a girlfiend so if we see the chart

of the girl can we say its marriage ? These things are not so

prevalent in India. This is a Vedic Science and if such things were

not done or atleast not that prevelant how can they be factored into

a system ? Social customs are so different and so it the culture. It

can only be research on our end ? If the question is abstract how can

we concretely say that so and so is married (not with ceremony but in

mind), as we are dealing with Vimshottari dasa starting from Moon

sign we are dealing with mind and desires of mind. People may claim

that they are boyfriend and girlfiend and living together, even if

one person has accepted the other as their husband and the other has

not, might not claim because he/she might not want to scare the other

person away ? How can u judge that, can we say its marriage ?

 

Margarita has mentioned time and time again based on her findings in

the west of so many charts that its not that clear cut for finding

marriage BUT the rules of friendship work wonderfully atleast for

charts in the west. That has come with experience. But for a lot of

people living in India these laws will fit in like a glove because

first of all its a science derived in India and its based on the

customs and culture of India. We have to reverse engineer the

western thoughts to fit with the laws given based on Indian laws,

customs and culture which never is easy. There is no clear cut 1 is

to 1 mapping.

 

I hope that I have answered your question.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash

 

, Denis Labouré

<Laboure@W...> wrote:

> Dear Ash,

>

> OK. An event may be given by:

> * the lords of D and E

> * the planets in D and E with more 4 points

> * a high-score planet in the worksheet which doesn't aspect houses

A, B and

> C.

> * a high-score planet in the worksheet, in spite the fact it aspect

houses

> A, B and C.

> * any planet in sandharmi with them

> * a low-score planet (for a bad mariage)

> etc.

>

> So, from the 4000 messages you make reference to, could you give a

strict

> procedure to use the worksheet in an efficient way?

>

> Thanks a lot

> Denis

>

>

>

>

> Dear Dennis,

>

> I am kinda curious to understand why do you say that

>

> >TOOLS WHICH DO NOT WORK

> > * The worksheet doesn't work.

> > * The method to read the Divisional charts has to be re-defined.

> > * The way to analyse the lord of the dasha diesn't work very well.

> > * The technique to link the lord of the dasa and the lord of the

> bukthi

> > doesn't really exist

>

> 1) There are about 4000 messages in this list and mostly Worksheet

> has been used and Krushnaji has predicted mostly all events

correctly

> using worksheet being the main tool.

>

> Basically, WE probably do not know how to use the worksheet.