4/10 phenomenon

May 11, 2003

Hello Margarita,

I asked Krushna why one should delete twice the points given by Saturn to

Mercury due to the 4/10 placement. But he was very busy at that time and I

don't have the answer. I thought about what he had written and came to this

assumption: Saturn is acting in a reverse way, having less points than

Mercury, and trying to give the event itself. So one should take the points

given by Saturn to Mercury as negative points. Thus in the worksheet, we

should delete them twice, as the worksheet took them as positive. This is of

course my understanding and Krushna or anybody else who got the point is

welcome to correct me.

Mars has got 30 points and Mercury 34. Mercury has got 12 points in BAV, it

is lord of D for VIII=B so that makes 17. It aspects 8th house with an

aspect of +5, and is aspected by Saturn with an aspect of +6. So that makes

28. Adding the points from Saturn (6) due to 4/10 relationship that makes

34. Now, if we delete these 6 points coming from Saturn twice, we are left

with 22, ie as much as Saturn. Saturn can overcome Mercury.

For the third house taken as B, Saturn doesn't get the points from Jupiter,

which is lord of 12th from B, that's also the way I understand it.

Best regards

Philippe

May 11, 2003

Dear Philippe,

I have not seen the case. Herewith I give the procedure.

If any planet(X) is 6th lord or 12th from B, and if any other

planet is getting points due to the planet X, in that case the

strength shown is apperent. For finding actual strength we should

deduct the points added in the strength due to planet X. This we get

the strength with out adding the points due to X. Now again deducting

the points which will compensate the points due to X. So we get net

strength of the planet for giving the result.

I think this will clear your doubt.

thanks

krushna

, " philippe bonin "

<philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

>

> Hello Margarita,

>

> I asked Krushna why one should delete twice the points given by

Saturn to

> Mercury due to the 4/10 placement. But he was very busy at that

time and I

> don't have the answer. I thought about what he had written and came

to this

> assumption: Saturn is acting in a reverse way, having less points

than

> Mercury, and trying to give the event itself. So one should take

the points

> given by Saturn to Mercury as negative points. Thus in the

worksheet, we

> should delete them twice, as the worksheet took them as positive.

This is of

> course my understanding and Krushna or anybody else who got the

point is

> welcome to correct me.

>

> Mars has got 30 points and Mercury 34. Mercury has got 12 points in

BAV, it

> is lord of D for VIII=B so that makes 17. It aspects 8th house with

an

> aspect of +5, and is aspected by Saturn with an aspect of +6. So

that makes

> 28. Adding the points from Saturn (6) due to 4/10 relationship that

makes

> 34. Now, if we delete these 6 points coming from Saturn twice, we

are left

> with 22, ie as much as Saturn. Saturn can overcome Mercury.

>

> For the third house taken as B, Saturn doesn't get the points from

Jupiter,

> which is lord of 12th from B, that's also the way I understand it.

>

> Best regards

>

> Philippe

May 12, 2003

Dear Krushna,

thank you for giving me more details about the 4/10 relationship. In the

case you had given (the man dead in the airplane accident) we had a 4/10

relationship between Mercury and Saturn, Saturn being in the 4th place from

Mercury but with less points than Mercury. Saturn wasn't the 6th lord nor

lord of 12th from B. I was puzzled because Saturn gave the death with 22

points in the worksheet. It was lord of the first house, ie E for 8th house

being B. But Mercury, lord of 5th house=D had 34 points. I couldn't

understand why Saturn, and not Mercury, gave the event. Your answer was the

following, pointing out the 4/10 relationship between Saturn and Mercury:

" Mercury have got 6 points from Saturn. These points are not helping in

giving the result, to overcome we should deduct double the points to get

strength by which Mercury can supershed Saturn. So Mercury remains with 22

points which is equal to Saturn. So it can not supershed Saturn. "

Margarita was asking why one should deduct twice the points coming from

Saturn to Mercury. My assumption was that, Saturn acting in a reverse way,

the points should be taken as negative, and that's why they should be

deleted twice.

If my understanding of your procedure is not good, could you please correct

me?

Thank you for your kind help and patience.

Respectfully,

Philippe.

May 12, 2003

Dear Philippe, Group,

In the first chart i.e. of the person who died in plane crash with

his data of 10th march 1945 at 7.00 am in bombay I am getting lagna

at 28 Aq 35 and Rasi at 1 cp 32.

Philippe you have written that the lagna and rasi u have is " lagna:

9°49' Aquarius, Moon 0°58' Capricorn "

What am I doing wrong ?

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " philippe bonin "

<philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

>

> Dear Ash,

>

> here are the data for 3 charts showing different versions of the

4/10

> phenomenon.

> The first one has been given by Krushna some time ago. It is the

chart of a

> man dead in an airplane accident. The birth data are:

> March 10th 1945 at 7:00 am in Bombay, India (lagna: 9°49'

Aquarius, Moon

> 0°58' Capricorn).

> Saturn is in the 4th house from Mercury. Mercury has got 3 points

and Saturn

> only 2. The native died in Saturn/Saturn. Saturn is natural

samdharmi to

> Venus, which is in third house with 5 points. Mercury is lord of

fifth house

> ie D for 8th house being B. It has the highest score for 8th

house. But

> Saturn gave the event. Krushna explained that, in this case we had

to delete

> twice the points given by Saturn to Mercury and compare the

remaining

> scores. Here Saturn and Mercury have the same score left, so Saturn

> overcomes Mercury.

>

> The second case is that of a male native born on May 19th 1967 at

8:47 pm in

> Boulogne-Billancourt, France (48N50, 2E15).Lagna:9°59' Scorpio,

Moon:10°12'

> Virgo.

> Here the Moon and Mars are in the 4th place from Venus. Venus has

got 3

> points, Mars 5 and the Moon 4. This placement gives high score to

Venus for

> all houses. But Mars is 6th lord. Also, the Moon is lord of 12th

from X. In

> Rahu/Venus, the native resigned from his phD because he didn't get

along

> with his director. This was a stop to the career he had thought

about in

> scientifical research. So here Venus wasn't good for 10th house,

in spite of

> being lord of D for X=B. I think this illustrates the rule given

by Krushna

> in the lessons: if the 12th lord from a house is in the fourth

place from a

> planet, the planet won't give good results for that house.

>

> The last one is that of a male native born on October 28th 1944

at 6:20 pm

> in Paris, France. Lagna: 2°44' Taurus, Moon:3°13' Pisces.

> Venus is in the fourth house from Jupiter. Jupiter has got 7

points and

> Venus 2 points. Venus is the 6th lord. In Ketu/Venus, his wife

left him. The

> subsequent sub-period of Jupiter wasn't benefic for marriage

(relationships

> that didn't last).

>

> Hope this can be of some interest.

>

> Best regards

> Philippe

May 12, 2003

Dear Krushnaji, Philippe, Margarita and list members,

I just went through this chart. For Aquarius lagna LOD and LOE for

3rd house are Mercury and Shani and for 8th house its Shani and

Mercury.

For Mahadasha it should be 3rd lord. Since this is an accident the

Karak might not be linked to 3rd lord, however this was the

reasoning I found.

Mars is 3rd lord and Mars and Venus is with 5 binuds in 3rd house.

Mars is aspecting primary upchaya so itself cannot give result its

samdharmi or Venus can give result. Natural samdharmi to Venus is

Shani so its Mahadasha comes first so Death is possible in Shani

mahadasha.

Since this was an accident we check 7th house as B. So Shani i.e.

12th lord or LOE and Venus LOD can give result on the double. Shani

also has the highest points for 7th house i.e. 50.

This seems my explanation.

Now for natural death we check the 8th house and for AQU lagna as I

said earlier Me and Sa becomes LOD and LOE for 8th and 3rd house.

One can give death and the other can give life.

For 8th house Shani has 22 and Mercury has 28

For 3rd house Shani has 23 and Mercury has 26

Interesting.. I shall also look foward for Krushnajis clarification.

Aquarius lagna is special .. 6th lord is Moon so cannot act malefic

and now LOD and LOE are also exchanged between 3rd and 8th ..

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " philippe bonin "

<philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

> Dear Krushna,

>

> thank you for giving me more details about the 4/10 relationship.

In the

> case you had given (the man dead in the airplane accident) we had

a 4/10

> relationship between Mercury and Saturn, Saturn being in the 4th

place from

> Mercury but with less points than Mercury. Saturn wasn't the 6th

lord nor

> lord of 12th from B. I was puzzled because Saturn gave the death

with 22

> points in the worksheet. It was lord of the first house, ie E for

8th house

> being B. But Mercury, lord of 5th house=D had 34 points. I couldn't

> understand why Saturn, and not Mercury, gave the event. Your

answer was the

> following, pointing out the 4/10 relationship between Saturn and

Mercury:

>

> " Mercury have got 6 points from Saturn. These points are not

helping in

> giving the result, to overcome we should deduct double the points

to get

> strength by which Mercury can supershed Saturn. So Mercury remains

with 22

> points which is equal to Saturn. So it can not supershed Saturn. "

>

> Margarita was asking why one should deduct twice the points coming

from

> Saturn to Mercury. My assumption was that, Saturn acting in a

reverse way,

> the points should be taken as negative, and that's why they should

be

> deleted twice.

> If my understanding of your procedure is not good, could you

please correct

> me?

>

> Thank you for your kind help and patience.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Philippe.

May 12, 2003

Dear Krushnaji,

Can you give us a chart with this example that you have given with

an event as a chart to discuss or an exercise. This is just to make

sure that all of us are on the same page and going foward in our

learnings we keep this in mind.

I think that this is a finer point to judge the planet strengh to

seperate apparent strength from real strengh.

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " krushanain "

<krushanain> wrote:

> Dear Philippe,

> I have not seen the case. Herewith I give the procedure.

> If any planet(X) is 6th lord or 12th from B, and if any

other

> planet is getting points due to the planet X, in that case the

> strength shown is apperent. For finding actual strength we should

> deduct the points added in the strength due to planet X. This we

get

> the strength with out adding the points due to X. Now again

deducting

> the points which will compensate the points due to X. So we get

net

> strength of the planet for giving the result.

> I think this will clear your doubt.

> thanks

> krushna

>

> , " philippe bonin "

> <philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Margarita,

> >

> > I asked Krushna why one should delete twice the points given by

> Saturn to

> > Mercury due to the 4/10 placement. But he was very busy at that

> time and I

> > don't have the answer. I thought about what he had written and

came

> to this

> > assumption: Saturn is acting in a reverse way, having less

points

> than

> > Mercury, and trying to give the event itself. So one should take

> the points

> > given by Saturn to Mercury as negative points. Thus in the

> worksheet, we

> > should delete them twice, as the worksheet took them as

positive.

> This is of

> > course my understanding and Krushna or anybody else who got the

> point is

> > welcome to correct me.

> >

> > Mars has got 30 points and Mercury 34. Mercury has got 12 points

in

> BAV, it

> > is lord of D for VIII=B so that makes 17. It aspects 8th house

with

> an

> > aspect of +5, and is aspected by Saturn with an aspect of +6. So

> that makes

> > 28. Adding the points from Saturn (6) due to 4/10 relationship

that

> makes

> > 34. Now, if we delete these 6 points coming from Saturn twice,

we

> are left

> > with 22, ie as much as Saturn. Saturn can overcome Mercury.

> >

> > For the third house taken as B, Saturn doesn't get the points

from

> Jupiter,

> > which is lord of 12th from B, that's also the way I understand

it.

> >

> > Best regards

> >

> > Philippe

May 12, 2003

Dear Krushnaji, Philippe, Margarita,

Upon re-reading Philippe mail I understood what he was trying to

say. Yes Mercury has got 6 points from Saturn to become 28. So if

we take that off then we get 22 points which is same as that of

Shani.

After reading your comments I also did not understand the term

double. You have not taken off Double points but just yanked off

points given by Shani to Mercury.

I have even one more question in addition to Philippes.

1) Why are we taking points of Shani. Mercury has received points

from Shani to become stronger. Why do we take those points off to

check " only mercurys pure strength without any help from shani " as

compared to " shanis pure strength without any help from mercury " .

In any case here Shani and Mercury are both LOD or LOE so they

should give results based thru sign lordship and not points. So

which ever comes first should deliver results. In this case

Shani/Shani ... shani antra came first so it gave result.

2) I have also seen you consider basic strengh too in some past

post. I cant remember which one but you had compared 2 planets

using this princple of taking off points ... what is this theory of

Real strength v/s Apparent strength.

Very very intersting case.. Good one Philippe... :=)

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " ashsam73 "

<ashsam73@h...> wrote:

> Dear Krushnaji, Philippe, Margarita and list members,

>

> I just went through this chart. For Aquarius lagna LOD and LOE

for

> 3rd house are Mercury and Shani and for 8th house its Shani and

> Mercury.

>

> For Mahadasha it should be 3rd lord. Since this is an accident

the

> Karak might not be linked to 3rd lord, however this was the

> reasoning I found.

>

> Mars is 3rd lord and Mars and Venus is with 5 binuds in 3rd

house.

> Mars is aspecting primary upchaya so itself cannot give result its

> samdharmi or Venus can give result. Natural samdharmi to Venus is

> Shani so its Mahadasha comes first so Death is possible in Shani

> mahadasha.

>

> Since this was an accident we check 7th house as B. So Shani i.e.

> 12th lord or LOE and Venus LOD can give result on the double.

Shani

> also has the highest points for 7th house i.e. 50.

>

> This seems my explanation.

>

> Now for natural death we check the 8th house and for AQU lagna as

I

> said earlier Me and Sa becomes LOD and LOE for 8th and 3rd house.

> One can give death and the other can give life.

>

> For 8th house Shani has 22 and Mercury has 28

> For 3rd house Shani has 23 and Mercury has 26

>

> Interesting.. I shall also look foward for Krushnajis

clarification.

>

> Aquarius lagna is special .. 6th lord is Moon so cannot act

malefic

> and now LOD and LOE are also exchanged between 3rd and 8th ..

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

> , " philippe bonin "

> <philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

> > Dear Krushna,

> >

> > thank you for giving me more details about the 4/10

relationship.

> In the

> > case you had given (the man dead in the airplane accident) we

had

> a 4/10

> > relationship between Mercury and Saturn, Saturn being in the 4th

> place from

> > Mercury but with less points than Mercury. Saturn wasn't the 6th

> lord nor

> > lord of 12th from B. I was puzzled because Saturn gave the death

> with 22

> > points in the worksheet. It was lord of the first house, ie E

for

> 8th house

> > being B. But Mercury, lord of 5th house=D had 34 points. I

couldn't

> > understand why Saturn, and not Mercury, gave the event. Your

> answer was the

> > following, pointing out the 4/10 relationship between Saturn and

> Mercury:

> >

> > " Mercury have got 6 points from Saturn. These points are not

> helping in

> > giving the result, to overcome we should deduct double the

points

> to get

> > strength by which Mercury can supershed Saturn. So Mercury

remains

> with 22

> > points which is equal to Saturn. So it can not supershed Saturn. "

> >

> > Margarita was asking why one should deduct twice the points

coming

> from

> > Saturn to Mercury. My assumption was that, Saturn acting in a

> reverse way,

> > the points should be taken as negative, and that's why they

should

> be

> > deleted twice.

> > If my understanding of your procedure is not good, could you

> please correct

> > me?

> >

> > Thank you for your kind help and patience.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> >

> > Philippe.

May 12, 2003

Hello Ash,

I think the difference comes from DST. I got the same results as Philippe,

perhaps they are wrong although it doesn’t change anything in the basic outlay

of the chart

Best

regards

Margarita

-----Original

Message-----

ashsam73

[ashsam73]

Monday, May 12, 2003 12:31

PM

To:

Subject:

Re:4/10 phenomenon

Dear Philippe, Group,

In the first chart i.e. of the person who died in plane crash with

his data of 10th march 1945 at 7.00 am in bombay I am getting lagna

at 28 Aq 35 and Rasi at 1 cp 32.

Philippe you have written that the lagna and rasi u have is " lagna:

9°49' Aquarius, Moon 0°58' Capricorn "

What am I doing wrong ?

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " philippe bonin "

<philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

>

> Dear Ash,

>

> here are the data for 3 charts showing different versions of the

4/10

> phenomenon.

> The first one has been given by Krushna some time ago. It is the

chart of a

> man dead in an airplane accident. The birth data are:

> March 10th 1945 at 7:00 am in Bombay, India (lagna: 9°49'

Aquarius, Moon

> 0°58' Capricorn).

> Saturn is in the 4th house from Mercury. Mercury has got 3 points

and Saturn

> only 2. The native died in Saturn/Saturn. Saturn is natural

samdharmi to

> Venus, which is in third house with 5 points. Mercury is lord of

fifth house

> ie D for 8th house being B. It has the highest score for 8th

house. But

> Saturn gave the event. Krushna explained that, in this case we had

to delete

> twice the points given by Saturn to Mercury and compare the

remaining

> scores. Here Saturn and Mercury have the same score left, so Saturn

> overcomes Mercury.

>

> The second case is that of a male native born on May 19th 1967 at

8:47 pm in

> Boulogne-Billancourt, France (48N50, 2E15).Lagna:9°59' Scorpio,

Moon:10°12'

> Virgo.

> Here the Moon and Mars are in the 4th place from Venus. Venus has

got 3

> points, Mars 5 and the Moon 4. This placement gives high score to

Venus for

> all houses. But Mars is 6th lord. Also, the Moon is lord of 12th

from X. In

> Rahu/Venus, the native resigned from his phD because he didn't get

along

> with his director. This was a stop to the career he had thought

about in

> scientifical research. So here Venus wasn't good for 10th house,

in spite of

> being lord of D for X=B. I think this illustrates the rule given

by Krushna

> in the lessons: if the 12th lord from a house is in the fourth

place from a

> planet, the planet won't give good results for that house.

>

> The last one is that of a male native born on October 28th 1944

at 6:20 pm

> in Paris, France. Lagna: 2°44' Taurus, Moon:3°13' Pisces.

> Venus is in

the fourth house from Jupiter. Jupiter has got 7

points and

> Venus 2 points. Venus is the 6th lord. In Ketu/Venus, his wife

left him. The

> subsequent sub-period of Jupiter wasn't benefic for marriage

(relationships

> that didn't last).

>

> Hope this can be of some interest.

>

> Best regards

> Philippe

May 12, 2003

Thanks

Ash, I will look at further discussions about this topic because I’m getting

confused now. This is the first thing I hear about double points. Normally the

worksheet takes care of the effect of the 12th lord !

Best

regards

Margarita

-----Original

Message-----

ashsam73

[ashsam73]

Monday, May 12, 2003 1:29 PM

Subject:

Re:4/10 phenomenon

Dear Krushnaji, Philippe, Margarita,

Upon re-reading Philippe mail I understood what he was trying to

say. Yes Mercury has got 6 points from Saturn to become 28. So

if

we take that off then we get 22 points which is same as that of

Shani.

After reading your comments I also did not understand the term

double. You have not taken off Double points but just yanked off

points given by Shani to Mercury.

I have even one more question in addition to Philippes.

1) Why are we taking points of Shani. Mercury has received points

from Shani to become stronger. Why do we take those points off to

check " only mercurys pure strength without any help from shani "

as

compared to " shanis pure strength without any help from mercury " .

In any case here Shani and Mercury are both LOD or LOE so they

should give results based thru sign lordship and not points. So

which ever comes first should deliver results. In this case

Shani/Shani ... shani antra came first so it gave result.

2) I have also seen you consider basic strengh too in some past

post. I cant remember which one but you had compared 2 planets

using this princple of taking off points ... what is this theory of

Real strength v/s Apparent strength.

Very very intersting case.. Good one Philippe... :=)

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " ashsam73 "

<ashsam73@h...> wrote:

> Dear Krushnaji, Philippe, Margarita and list members,

>

> I just went through this chart. For Aquarius lagna LOD and LOE

for

> 3rd house are Mercury and Shani and for 8th house its Shani and

> Mercury.

>

> For Mahadasha it should be 3rd lord. Since this is an accident

the

> Karak might not be linked to 3rd lord, however this was the

> reasoning I found.

>

> Mars is 3rd lord and Mars and Venus is with 5 binuds in 3rd

house.

> Mars is aspecting primary upchaya so itself cannot give result its

> samdharmi or Venus can give result. Natural samdharmi to Venus

is

> Shani so its Mahadasha comes first so Death is possible in Shani

> mahadasha.

>

> Since this was an accident we check 7th house as B. So Shani

i.e.

> 12th lord or LOE and Venus LOD can give result on the double.

Shani

> also has the highest points for 7th house i.e. 50.

>

> This seems my explanation.

>

> Now for natural death we check the 8th house and for AQU lagna as

I

> said earlier Me and Sa becomes LOD and LOE for 8th and 3rd

house.

> One can give death and the other can give life.

>

> For 8th house Shani has 22 and Mercury has 28

> For 3rd house Shani has 23 and Mercury has 26

>

> Interesting.. I shall also look foward for Krushnajis

clarification.

>

> Aquarius lagna is special .. 6th lord is Moon so cannot act

malefic

> and now LOD and LOE are also exchanged between 3rd and 8th ..

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

> , " philippe

bonin "

> <philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

> > Dear Krushna,

> >

> > thank you for giving me more details about the 4/10

relationship.

> In the

> > case you had given (the man dead in the airplane accident) we

had

> a 4/10

> > relationship between Mercury and Saturn, Saturn being in the 4th

> place from

> > Mercury but with less points than Mercury. Saturn wasn't the 6th

> lord nor

> > lord of 12th from B. I was puzzled because Saturn gave the death

> with 22

> > points in the worksheet. It was lord of the first house, ie E

for

> 8th house

> > being B. But Mercury, lord of 5th house=D had 34 points. I

couldn't

> > understand why Saturn, and not Mercury, gave the event. Your

> answer was the

> > following, pointing out the 4/10 relationship between Saturn and

> Mercury:

> >

> > " Mercury have got 6 points from Saturn. These points are not

> helping in

> > giving the result, to overcome we should deduct double the

points

> to get

> > strength by which Mercury can supershed Saturn. So Mercury

remains

> with 22

> > points which is equal to Saturn. So it can not supershed

Saturn. "

> >

> > Margarita was asking why one should deduct twice the points

coming

> from

> > Saturn to Mercury. My assumption was that, Saturn acting in a

> reverse way,

> > the points should be taken as negative, and that's why they

should

> be

> > deleted twice.

> > If my understanding of your procedure is not good, could you

> please correct

> > me?

> >

> > Thank you for your kind help and patience.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> >

> > Philippe.

May 12, 2003

Dear Margarita,

For accident 7th I think should have high points (the logic I used

was we know that LOD and LOE are eager to give results for 7th house

and for marriage highest significator gives marriage.. on the same

thought I considered that if accident happens then highest

significator can give accident.. not that it is a good thing.. but

when death comes due to that.... I dont know how to consider.. you

may be right) so event can happen. If 6th is low then person cannot

recover and if 8th is high the death can happen as death happens in

highest significator.

Here interestingly Shani has got high points for all houses. Shani

gets its points from Guru being in 4:10 position.

, " dmlettens "

<dmlettens@s...> wrote:

> Hello Ash,

> I understand your reasoning. But I thought that in case of

accident causing

> death, the 7th should have low points and the 8th high points.

> Margarita

>

> ashsam73 [ashsam73@h...]

> Monday, May 12, 2003 12:49 PM

>

> Re:4/10 phenomenon

>

> Dear Krushnaji, Philippe, Margarita and list members,

>

> I just went through this chart. For Aquarius lagna LOD and LOE for

> 3rd house are Mercury and Shani and for 8th house its Shani and

> Mercury.

>

> For Mahadasha it should be 3rd lord. Since this is an accident the

> Karak might not be linked to 3rd lord, however this was the

> reasoning I found.

>

> Mars is 3rd lord and Mars and Venus is with 5 binuds in 3rd house.

> Mars is aspecting primary upchaya so itself cannot give result its

> samdharmi or Venus can give result. Natural samdharmi to Venus is

> Shani so its Mahadasha comes first so Death is possible in Shani

> mahadasha.

>

> Since this was an accident we check 7th house as B. So Shani i.e.

> 12th lord or LOE and Venus LOD can give result on the double.

Shani

> also has the highest points for 7th house i.e. 50.

>

> This seems my explanation.

>

> Now for natural death we check the 8th house and for AQU lagna as I

> said earlier Me and Sa becomes LOD and LOE for 8th and 3rd house.

> One can give death and the other can give life.

>

> For 8th house Shani has 22 and Mercury has 28

> For 3rd house Shani has 23 and Mercury has 26

>

> Interesting.. I shall also look foward for Krushnajis

clarification.

>

> Aquarius lagna is special .. 6th lord is Moon so cannot act malefic

> and now LOD and LOE are also exchanged between 3rd and 8th ..

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

> , " philippe bonin "

> <philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

> > Dear Krushna,

> >

> > thank you for giving me more details about the 4/10 relationship.

> In the

> > case you had given (the man dead in the airplane accident) we had

> a 4/10

> > relationship between Mercury and Saturn, Saturn being in the 4th

> place from

> > Mercury but with less points than Mercury. Saturn wasn't the 6th

> lord nor

> > lord of 12th from B. I was puzzled because Saturn gave the death

> with 22

> > points in the worksheet. It was lord of the first house, ie E for

> 8th house

> > being B. But Mercury, lord of 5th house=D had 34 points. I

couldn't

> > understand why Saturn, and not Mercury, gave the event. Your

> answer was the

> > following, pointing out the 4/10 relationship between Saturn and

> Mercury:

> >

> > " Mercury have got 6 points from Saturn. These points are not

> helping in

> > giving the result, to overcome we should deduct double the points

> to get

> > strength by which Mercury can supershed Saturn. So Mercury

remains

> with 22

> > points which is equal to Saturn. So it can not supershed Saturn. "

> >

> > Margarita was asking why one should deduct twice the points

coming

> from

> > Saturn to Mercury. My assumption was that, Saturn acting in a

> reverse way,

> > the points should be taken as negative, and that's why they

should

> be

> > deleted twice.

> > If my understanding of your procedure is not good, could you

> please correct

> > me?

> >

> > Thank you for your kind help and patience.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> >

> > Philippe.

>

May 12, 2003

Dear Margarita, Phillipe,

Lets get this one cleared as even I read Sanjays and Krushnajis

email exchanges in the past and 4:10 can change the entire

complexion of the chart. Its better we have our fundamentals

crystal clear.

I also want to extend Puneet thanks for bringing up this topic and

Philippe to bring up this chart which is very interesting.

Lets get this sorted out...

Great work guys !!!

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " dmlettens "

<dmlettens@s...> wrote:

> Thanks Philippe,

> You raised a good discussion. I will follow the

> mails to see what comes out of it because I find

> the whole thing rather confusing.

> Best regards

> Margarita

>

> philippe bonin

> [philippe.bonin@w...]

> Sunday, May 11, 2003 2:44 PM

>

> 4/10

> phenomenon

>

> Hello Margarita,

>

> I asked Krushna why one should delete twice the

> points given by Saturn to

> Mercury due to the 4/10 placement. But he was very

> busy at that time and I

> don't have the answer. I thought about what he had

> written and came to this

> assumption: Saturn is acting in a reverse way,

> having less points than

> Mercury, and trying to give the event itself. So

> one should take the points

> given by Saturn to Mercury as negative points.

> Thus in the worksheet, we

> should delete them twice, as the worksheet took

> them as positive. This is of

> course my understanding and Krushna or anybody

> else who got the point is

> welcome to correct me.

>

> Mars has got 30 points and Mercury 34. Mercury has

> got 12 points in BAV, it

> is lord of D for VIII=B so that makes 17. It

> aspects 8th house with an

> aspect of +5, and is aspected by Saturn with an

> aspect of +6. So that makes

> 28. Adding the points from Saturn (6) due to 4/10

> relationship that makes

> 34. Now, if we delete these 6 points coming from

> Saturn twice, we are left

> with 22, ie as much as Saturn. Saturn can overcome

> Mercury.

>

> For the third house taken as B, Saturn doesn't get

> the points from Jupiter,

> which is lord of 12th from B, that's also the way

> I understand it.

>

> Best regards

>

> Philippe

>

May 13, 2003

Dear Philippe,

I was just going though this chart.

This is a really interesting chart in 2 aspects.

1) Here we can study planets placed in 6th house

2) How 4:10 works in case 10th house planet is with more points as

compared to 4th house planet.

3) Parivartan between 6th and 7th lord i.e. 6th lord in 7th and 7th

lord in 6th.

4) All planets giving good points for 7th house, 12th house, 5th

house (except moon which is low for 5th house).

Can I ask you to furnish or check marriage date.

Shani is in 2nd house its aspecting House C is in House A and is

conjoining House B lord in Navamsa. Shani not aspected by Guru but

is in sign of Guru and conjoining FK mercury. Its Yoga karak for

Taurus lagna.

So I would say there is fully delay in this case due to Shani BUT

due to Shani conjoining FK and in sign of Guru in Navamsa delay can

be checked so I would say delay can be moderate.

This native can marry after the age of 24.5 years.

After 24.5 years the first antra that can give marriage is Venus.

Venus has sufficient points its the 6th lord so it can give marriage

but its the 6th lord.

OR

On the other hand Guru does not aspect Shani so I am would like to

find out an interesting thing here which is Shani being placed in

sign of Guru in Navamsa and CONJOINING FK who is mercury. curious

to know the marriage date here.

Since Sun to Venus distance is within tolleration it Marriage can

also happen in Mars antra and also possiblilty in Rahu (Guru)'s

antra after Venus

OR

Shani in 2nd house can delay marriage being placed in Karak sthan

for marriage can delay it a lot i.e. after 30 years with the fact

that its aspecting House C, in House A and conjoining LOB in Navamsa.

In this case Marriage can happen in Gurus antra as guru has 7 bindus

and is placed in House D and is also the highest significator.

Children

Possiblilty of conception in Merc/Shani i.e. 1978/03 thru 1980/12.

Shani is LOE for 5th house and is placed in House D. Shani also has

2nd hightest points for 5th house.

2nd possiblilty is in Ketus antra too as ketu is placed in sign of

shani and shani is LOE and placed in House D.

I am also curious to see if this happened as if you closely see the

saptamsa Shani is placed in Libra the 6th lord of Shani?????

hmm... that should reduce the power of shani.

Since you have given that break happened in Ketu/Venus. Ketu is

opposing Guru (by that logic Guru should have given marriage or Rahu

(who also represnets Guru)....

All in All its a great chart.. Philippe can you furnish some more

data so that we can check other events...

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

> > The last one is that of a male native born on October 28th 1944

> at 6:20 pm

> > in Paris, France. Lagna: 2°44' Taurus, Moon:3°13' Pisces.

> > Venus is in the fourth house from Jupiter. Jupiter has got 7

> points and

> > Venus 2 points. Venus is the 6th lord. In Ketu/Venus, his wife

> left him. The

> > subsequent sub-period of Jupiter wasn't benefic for marriage

> (relationships

> > that didn't last).

> >

> > Hope this can be of some interest.

> >

> > Best regards

> > Philippe

May 13, 2003

Hi Philippe and list members,

Oops I forgot to add to the gamut of things on the chart .. Mars,

Sun and Mercury (FK) are all having high points for 7th house and

lagna/7th have 28/19 points and lagna/7th, sun/7th and moon/7th are

in 2:12,2:12 and 3:11 combination....

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " ashsam73 "

<ashsam73@h...> wrote:

> Dear Philippe,

>

> I was just going though this chart.

> This is a really interesting chart in 2 aspects.

>

> 1) Here we can study planets placed in 6th house

> 2) How 4:10 works in case 10th house planet is with more points as

> compared to 4th house planet.

> 3) Parivartan between 6th and 7th lord i.e. 6th lord in 7th and

7th

> lord in 6th.

> 4) All planets giving good points for 7th house, 12th house, 5th

> house (except moon which is low for 5th house).

>

> Can I ask you to furnish or check marriage date.

>

> Shani is in 2nd house its aspecting House C is in House A and is

> conjoining House B lord in Navamsa. Shani not aspected by Guru

but

> is in sign of Guru and conjoining FK mercury. Its Yoga karak for

> Taurus lagna.

>

> So I would say there is fully delay in this case due to Shani BUT

> due to Shani conjoining FK and in sign of Guru in Navamsa delay

can

> be checked so I would say delay can be moderate.

>

> This native can marry after the age of 24.5 years.

>

> After 24.5 years the first antra that can give marriage is Venus.

> Venus has sufficient points its the 6th lord so it can give

marriage

> but its the 6th lord.

>

> OR

>

> On the other hand Guru does not aspect Shani so I am would like to

> find out an interesting thing here which is Shani being placed in

> sign of Guru in Navamsa and CONJOINING FK who is mercury. curious

> to know the marriage date here.

>

> Since Sun to Venus distance is within tolleration it Marriage can

> also happen in Mars antra and also possiblilty in Rahu (Guru)'s

> antra after Venus

>

> OR

>

> Shani in 2nd house can delay marriage being placed in Karak sthan

> for marriage can delay it a lot i.e. after 30 years with the fact

> that its aspecting House C, in House A and conjoining LOB in

Navamsa.

>

> In this case Marriage can happen in Gurus antra as guru has 7

bindus

> and is placed in House D and is also the highest significator.

>

> Children

>

> Possiblilty of conception in Merc/Shani i.e. 1978/03 thru 1980/12.

> Shani is LOE for 5th house and is placed in House D. Shani also

has

> 2nd hightest points for 5th house.

>

> 2nd possiblilty is in Ketus antra too as ketu is placed in sign of

> shani and shani is LOE and placed in House D.

>

> I am also curious to see if this happened as if you closely see

the

> saptamsa Shani is placed in Libra the 6th lord of Shani?????

>

> hmm... that should reduce the power of shani.

>

> Since you have given that break happened in Ketu/Venus. Ketu is

> opposing Guru (by that logic Guru should have given marriage or

Rahu

> (who also represnets Guru)....

>

> All in All its a great chart.. Philippe can you furnish some more

> data so that we can check other events...

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

> > > The last one is that of a male native born on October 28th

1944

> > at 6:20 pm

> > > in Paris, France. Lagna: 2°44' Taurus, Moon:3°13' Pisces.

> > > Venus is in the fourth house from Jupiter. Jupiter has got 7

> > points and

> > > Venus 2 points. Venus is the 6th lord. In Ketu/Venus, his wife

> > left him. The

> > > subsequent sub-period of Jupiter wasn't benefic for marriage

> > (relationships

> > > that didn't last).

> > >

> > > Hope this can be of some interest.

> > >

> > > Best regards

> > > Philippe

May 13, 2003

Dear Ash,

as for the lagna and Moon of the chart, I checked with another software and

still get the same data. I think Margarita is right, it may be a DST matter.

The data I've got are obtained for GMT-6h30.

In the worksheet, Mercury gets 6 points from Saturn by aspect. These are not

deleted. But if we give to Mercury the 6 points due to Saturn because of the

4/10 placement this makes 34 for Mercury. So to get 22 we indeed delete the

6 points twice. But I don't know if my understanding of the reason behind

the procedure is correct.

I have been doing some research on longevity recently and there are still

points that remain unclear to me. You are looking at 7th house for

accidental death, as seventh house is related to accidents. Actually, what I

have found on several charts of people dead by accident is a link between

third lord, FK for death, and second lord, FK for accidents. This is not

always the case but for example in this chart, Mars third lord is aspected

by Jupiter second lord. As for the timing, I always saw the 8th house

involved too. Here Saturn is also lord of E for VIII=B.

In the third chart I sent (man born on October 28th 1944 in Paris) there is

also a death by accident. The man died in the crash of his motorbike with a

truck. The death took place in Ketu/Saturn. Saturn is samdharmi to Mars

(occupying the same navamsa) and Mars is lord of XII =E for VII=B so it

works for seventh house. But Saturn is also samdharmi to Mercury (in the

same navamsa) lord of V=D for VIII=B. I found such combinations several

times in cases of accidental death. Here I don't understand the main lord,

Ketu being in Sagittarius in the nakshatra of the Sun, without direct link

with III or II (A for accidents).

I see another question related to this chart (the third one): we assume the

first planet that can be qualified will produce the event if there is no

special delay (you were reminding us of the rule in your mail). But it

doesn't seem to be always the case. In this chart, Venus (lord of I) came

earlier and could have produced the death. If we concentrate on seventh

house, Sun (lord of IV) and Mars (lord of XII) could have. There are other

charts presenting such apparent anomaly. Shouldn't we also take the points

in the worksheet into account ?

Best regards

Philippe

May 13, 2003

Dear Philippe,

With the first case of the native that died in plane crash the one

born in Bombay, India there is No DST.

In the 2nd case lets get the lagna right. I have taken 1 hr East of

GMT with that only I am getting 4Ta29 and moon at 3Pi15.

Once that is right I will recheck everything.

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

, " philippe bonin "

<philippe.bonin@w...> wrote:

> Dear Ash,

>

> as for the lagna and Moon of the chart, I checked with another

software and

> still get the same data. I think Margarita is right, it may be a

DST matter.

> The data I've got are obtained for GMT-6h30.

>

> In the worksheet, Mercury gets 6 points from Saturn by aspect.

These are not

> deleted. But if we give to Mercury the 6 points due to Saturn

because of the

> 4/10 placement this makes 34 for Mercury. So to get 22 we indeed

delete the

> 6 points twice. But I don't know if my understanding of the reason

behind

> the procedure is correct.

>

> I have been doing some research on longevity recently and there

are still

> points that remain unclear to me. You are looking at 7th house for

> accidental death, as seventh house is related to accidents.

Actually, what I

> have found on several charts of people dead by accident is a link

between

> third lord, FK for death, and second lord, FK for accidents. This

is not

> always the case but for example in this chart, Mars third lord is

aspected

> by Jupiter second lord. As for the timing, I always saw the 8th

house

> involved too. Here Saturn is also lord of E for VIII=B.

>

> In the third chart I sent (man born on October 28th 1944 in Paris)

there is

> also a death by accident. The man died in the crash of his

motorbike with a

> truck. The death took place in Ketu/Saturn. Saturn is samdharmi to

Mars

> (occupying the same navamsa) and Mars is lord of XII =E for VII=B

so it

> works for seventh house. But Saturn is also samdharmi to Mercury

(in the

> same navamsa) lord of V=D for VIII=B. I found such combinations

several

> times in cases of accidental death. Here I don't understand the

main lord,

> Ketu being in Sagittarius in the nakshatra of the Sun, without

direct link

> with III or II (A for accidents).

>

> I see another question related to this chart (the third one): we

assume the

> first planet that can be qualified will produce the event if there

is no

> special delay (you were reminding us of the rule in your mail).

But it

> doesn't seem to be always the case. In this chart, Venus (lord of

I) came

> earlier and could have produced the death. If we concentrate on

seventh

> house, Sun (lord of IV) and Mars (lord of XII) could have. There

are other

> charts presenting such apparent anomaly. Shouldn't we also take

the points

> in the worksheet into account ?

>

> Best regards

> Philippe

May 13, 2003

Dear Philippe,

I SHALL ADD MY COMMENTS TO THIS POINT FOR NOW IN CAPS

In this chart, Venus (lord of I) came

> earlier and could have produced the death. If we concentrate on

seventh

> house, Sun (lord of IV) and Mars (lord of XII) could have. There

are other

> charts presenting such apparent anomaly. Shouldn't we also take

the points

> in the worksheet into account ?

ASH : VENUS IS PLACED IN 12TH FROM B WHERE B = 8TH HOUSE. ITS WITH

HIGH POINTS FOR 8TH AND BEING PLACED IN 12TH CANNOT GIVE FAVOURABLE

RESULTS FOR 8TH. I AM TRYING TO USE GENERAL LAW OF PLANETS BEING

PLACED IN 12TH FROM B DO NOT GIVE FAVOURABLE RESULTS AND SINCE DEATH

HAPPENS IN HIGHEST SIGNIFICATOR WE CAN CONSIDER THAT AS FAVOURABLE

FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES FOR THIS SYSTEM. WE ARE CONSIDERING

POINTS OF VENUS AS HIGH BEING MORE THAN 12TH.

THIS IS WHAT I COULD THINK OF FOR THE REASON WHY VENUS DID NOT GIVE

RESULTS.

DO U KNOW MORE DATA REGARDING HIS MARRIAGE AND BIRTH OF CHILDREN.

I DID NOT KNOW THAT THIS CHART WAS OF A PERSON DECESED.

THANKS,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

May 14, 2003

Dear Ash,

thank you for the clarifications about the planet being in 12th from B. If I

understand well, a planet with high points in the worksheet placed in the

12th from B can't give the result.

About that chart (October 28th 1944 in Paris), the native was a famous

humorist and comic actor in France (he also proved to be a very good tragic

actor).

Here are some events in his life and the way I understand them

astrologically. I would be glad to have your comments.

-he lost his father very young (1947).

this was in Saturn/Saturn. Saturn is NK for father's loss. And it is lord of

E for IV=B (8th from IX). Saturn also gets the highest score for IV.

-he began his first job at 15 years old.

this was in Saturn/Rahu. Rahu is in the nakshatra of Jupiter which gets the

highest score for VI (but if we have to delete the points Jupiter gets from

Venus it doesn't match so well).

-his career as an artist begins in 1968 in Mercury/Venus. Mercury is FK for

the career. I don't understand the role of Venus, which is sixth lord and

shouldn't be good. However, the success began in 1969, still in Venus'

sub-period.

-he began to live with his futur wife at the end of 1971.

this was Mercury/Moon. Mercury is second lord. The role of Moon is not so

clear to me in this field.

-had his first son in 1972. I don't have the exact date but it seems logical

that it was in Mercury/Mars because Mars is in the same navamsa as Mercury

and Saturn, lords of D and E for fifth house.

-married officially on October 16th 1975. This was Mercury/Rahu. Rahu is

samdharmi to Jupiter which is in IV with 7 points.

-had his second son on October 16th 1976. This was Mercury/Jupiter. I don't

see the link between the sub-period lord and the event.

-his wife left home on March 29th 1981 (Ketu/Ketu). Divorce pronounced on

December 3rd 1981 (Ketu/Venus). I retained Ketu/Venus for separation but it

seems Ketu has also a role to play. Any idea?

-had financial difficulties after his divorce but could manage with it;

-in July 1985, had a good contract with exceptional salary (Jupiter the

sub-lord in IV with 7 points activates XI)

-on September 29th 1985, he beat a motorbike speed record (maybe because

Jupiter is lord of E for third house ?)

-at the same time, he founded a charitable association (free restaurants for

needy people). I'm not sure about the significators for that one.

-died on June 19th 1986 in a motorbike accident (Ketu/Saturn).

I also think this is an interesting chart. I thought the 4/10 relationship

between Jupiter and the sixth lord could explain why there had been no

stable relationship during Jupiter's sub-priod after his divorce (a

girlfriend mat in 1985 who left him by the end of the year. He met another

girlfriend in Ketu/Saturn and Saturn is samdharmi to 12th lord).

As for the accidental death, we can notice that Mercury NK is in sixth house

exactly conjunct to Mars (also in navamsa as the conjunction is exact). I'm

still confused about the main period lord by the time of death (Ketu).

Best regards

Philippe

May 14, 2003

Dear Philippe,

Great analysis.

However I went through a few events and just like you I could not

see some events clearly.

If you do not mind I am going to put my comments and things I have

not understood clearly in CAPS.

[PS : Yes, actually we are digressing from the main topic of 4:10

but this is a great chart to study, lets understand all the events

clearly in this chart and then get back into the 4:10 discussion.]

Here is your mail below.

> thank you for the clarifications about the planet being in 12th

from B. If I

> understand well, a planet with high points in the worksheet placed

in the

> 12th from B can't give the result.

> About that chart (October 28th 1944 in Paris), the native was a

famous

> humorist and comic actor in France (he also proved to be a very

good tragic

> actor).

ASH : CHECKING INCLINATION FOR CAREER FROM NAVAMSA, DREKKHANA AND

TRIMSAMSA WE GET LAGNA, SUN AND MOON IN 3 SPOTS IN SIGN OF SHANI, 3

IN SIGN OF VENUS AND VENUS HAS GOOD POINTS FOR ALL HOUSES. MAYBE

THATS WHY HE TOOK INTO ACTING. SHANI CAN SHOW TRAGIC ROLE???

HOWEVER FOR HUMOUR FROM MY KNOWLEDGE WE SHOUDL CHECK MERCURY AND

MERCURY ALSO HAS STRENGTH IN ALL HOUSES.. THIS IS MY GUESS..

KRUSHNAJI CAN U CLARIFY IF THIS IS HOW WE SHOULD SEE FLAVOURS IN

CAREER FIELD. LAGNA, SUN AND MOON IN NAVAMSA ARE IN SIGNS OF GURU

AND SUN THIS MIGHT SHOW MANAGEMENT OR BEING A DIRECTOR MORE TOWARDS

MANAGEMENT BUT I AM NOT TOO SURE ON THIS.

> Here are some events in his life and the way I understand them

> astrologically. I would be glad to have your comments.

>

> -he lost his father very young (1947).

> this was in Saturn/Saturn. Saturn is NK for father's loss. And it

is lord of

> E for IV=B (8th from IX). Saturn also gets the highest score for

IV.

>

ASH : HERE THE ANTRA OF SHANI FITS PERFECTLY, HOW EVER I AM NOT

GETTING THE MAHADASHA. FOR FATHERS DEATH, DEATH SHOULD HAPPEN IN

MAHADASHA OF 3RD LORD FROM 9TH (FOR FATHER) OF PLANETS IN 3RD FROM

9TH I.E MOON OR THEIR SAMDHARMI IF ITS ASPECTING.

SINCE GURU IS PLACED IN 4TH AND IS ASPECTING 8TH HOUSE I.E. HOUSE C

FROM 4TH (WHICH IS KARAK FOR FATHERS DEATH) ITSELF CANNOT GIVE

RESULTS SO ITS SAMDHARMI CAN GIVE. HERE GURU IS VARGOTTAMA SO ITS

NOT SAMDHARMI. GURU IS SAMDHARMI TO KETU BEING IN SAME NAKSHATRA.

SO KETUS MAHADASHA SHOULD GIVE. MOON'S MAHADASHA CAN ALSO GIVE AND

MOON IS SAMDHARMI TO RAHU AS MOON AND RAHU ARE IN SAME NAKHATRA AND

CONJOINING IN NAVAMSA. NOW DEATH HAPPENED IN SHANIS MADASHSA SO I

MAY BE MISSING SOMETHING.

> -he began his first job at 15 years old.

> this was in Saturn/Rahu. Rahu is in the nakshatra of Jupiter which

gets the

> highest score for VI (but if we have to delete the points Jupiter

gets from

> Venus it doesn't match so well).

>

ASH : WHY ARE YOU DELETING POINTS. VENUS DOES NOT GIVE POINTS TO

GURU. VENUS WILL OPPOSE THE KARAKTWA OF GURU SO VENUS DURING ITS

ANTRA WILL OPPOSE 1ST AND 4TH HOUSE THINGS AS GURU IS FK FOR 1ST AND

4TH HOUSE AND NK FOR 2ND AND 5TH. SINCE ITS WITH HIGH POINTS IT

WILL ALSO BE EAGER TO DELIVER RESULTS FOR 7TH AND 11TH (I.E. 4TH AND

8TH FROM ITSELF) SO VENUS WILL OPPOSE ALL THESE THINGS OR REVERT

THEM. THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING.

KRUSHNAJI AND MARGARITA PLEASE STEP IN GIVE YOUR COMMENTS TOO.

> -his career as an artist begins in 1968 in Mercury/Venus. Mercury

is FK for

> the career. I don't understand the role of Venus, which is sixth

lord and

> shouldn't be good. However, the success began in 1969, still in

Venus'

> sub-period.

ASH : VENUS IS 6TH LORD BUT ITS ALSO OTHER THINGS. VENUS BEING 6TH

LORD CANNOT OVERRIDE THE PRINCIPLE OF LOD OR LOE FOR EG 6TH LORD IS

LOE FOR LGNA AND LOD FOR 9TH HOUSE SO IT CANNOT BE BAD.

IN THIS CHART VENUS IS NOT GIVING POINTS TO GURU AS GURU HAS HIGH

POINTS. INSTEAD IT WILL OPPOSE THE KARAKTWA OF GURU.

VENUS HAS HIGH POINTS SO IT WILL GIVE GOOD RESULTS. I THINK WE ALSO

NEED TO PRACTICE WITH MORE CHART WITH GETTING JOBS AND LOOSING JOBS

IN THAT WAY THIS PRINCIPLE WILL GET CLEAR.

THIS ALL OF THE ABOVE IS MY UNDERSTNADING AND I ALSO UNDERSTAND YOUR

POINT OF VENUS BEING THE 6TH LORD FOR GETTING JOB. MAYBE KRUSHNAJI

AND MARGARITA CAN GUIDE US HERE.

>

> -he began to live with his futur wife at the end of 1971.

> this was Mercury/Moon. Mercury is second lord. The role of Moon is

not so

> clear to me in this field.

ASH : WHEN HE MENTALLY ACCEPTED HER AS HIS WIFE .. MAYBE IT WAS WHEN

THEY HAD A CHILD TOGETHER AFTER.. SO THIS IS CONFUSING. IF THAT

HAPPENS THEN WE CAN CONSIDER WHEN THEY GOT CHILD TOGETHER THEY

DECIDE TO GET MARRIED. END 72 FALLS IN MARS ANTRA AND MARS ANTRA IS

LOE FOR 7TH HOUSE???

>

> -had his first son in 1972. I don't have the exact date but it

seems logical

> that it was in Mercury/Mars because Mars is in the same navamsa as

Mercury

> and Saturn, lords of D and E for fifth house.

ASH : MARS IS KARAK FOR 12TH HOUSE I.E. LORD OF 7TH HOUSE, MARS IS

LOE FOR MARRIAGE AND KARAK FOR CHILDREN I.E LORD OF 12TH HOUSE SO IN

ALL ASPECTS ITS GOOD AND ITS SAMDHARMI TO SHANI IN NAVAMSA.

>

> -married officially on October 16th 1975. This was Mercury/Rahu.

Rahu is

> samdharmi to Jupiter which is in IV with 7 points.

ASH : THIS IS A LEGAL THING SO WE CAN CHECK FROM 6TH HOUSE. GURU IS

LOE FOR 6TH. SO YOU ARE RIGHT RAHU CAN GIVE RESULT.

>

> -had his second son on October 16th 1976. This was

Mercury/Jupiter. I don't

> see the link between the sub-period lord and the event.

>

> -his wife left home on March 29th 1981 (Ketu/Ketu). Divorce

pronounced on

> December 3rd 1981 (Ketu/Venus). I retained Ketu/Venus for

separation but it

> seems Ketu has also a role to play. Any idea?

ASH : WE HAVE TO CONSIDER SEPERATION DATE AND NOT LEGAL DIVORSE DATE

AS MENTALLY THEY HAVE SEPERATED BEFORE LEGAL STUFF IS CLEARED.

KETU REPRESENTS SUN AND SATURN. MAYBE DUE TO THE FACT MARRIAGE

HAPPENED IN LOE I.E. MARS GETS REVERTED IN LOD AS BOTH ARE IN

6TH ???

I HOPE KRUSHNAJI AND MARGARITA GIVE THEIR OPINION ABOUT THIS, BUT I

AM SURE WE SHOULD TAKE KETU/KETU AND NOT KETU/VENUS AS SEPERATION

HAPPENED IN KETU/KETU. KRUSHNAJI HAD CLARIFIED THIS QUESTION TO ME

IN THE PAST WHEN I HAD ASKED HIM ABOUT SIMILAR CASE WHEN SEPERATION

HAPPENED BEFORE ACTUAL LEGAL DIVORSE COMING THROUGH.

6TH LORD IN 7TH AND 7TH LORD IN 6TH AND LOD AND LOE ARE BOTH IN 6TH

HOUSE CAN INDICATE BREAK BUT PLANETS BREAKING A MARRIAGE AND

REASONING FOR KETU IS NOT VERY CLEAR.

>

> -had financial difficulties after his divorce but could manage

with it;

>

> -in July 1985, had a good contract with exceptional salary

(Jupiter the

> sub-lord in IV with 7 points activates XI)

ASH : YUP, I AGREE WITH YOU HERE.

>

> -on September 29th 1985, he beat a motorbike speed record (maybe

because

> Jupiter is lord of E for third house ?)

>

> -at the same time, he founded a charitable association (free

restaurants for

> needy people). I'm not sure about the significators for that one.

ASH : I AM WITH YOU HERE TOO.. DONT KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE EITHER.

>

> -died on June 19th 1986 in a motorbike accident (Ketu/Saturn).

ASH : THIS IS NOT CLEAR TO ME. SO I WONT COMMENT ON IT.

>

> I also think this is an interesting chart. I thought the 4/10

relationship

> between Jupiter and the sixth lord could explain why there had

been no

> stable relationship during Jupiter's sub-priod after his divorce (a

> girlfriend mat in 1985 who left him by the end of the year. He met

another

> girlfriend in Ketu/Saturn and Saturn is samdharmi to 12th lord).

ASH : ACTUALLY VENUS'S SUB SHOULD HAVE OPPOSED GURU NOT GURUS SUB.

HERE I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A BASIC QUESTION. DOES GURU BECOME

SAMDHARMI TO VENUS DESPITE GURU HAVING MORE POINTS AND VENUS LESS SO

IN ACTUAL THERE IS NOT POINTS TRANSFER BUT JUST MERE 4:10 PLACEMENT.

I AM NOT GETTING ANY SATISFACTORY REASONING BEHIND WHY GURUS ANTRA

GAVE GF'S AND ALSO REVERTED RELATIONSHIP.

PERHAPS I AM NOT SEEING THE OBVIOUS, MAYBE KRUSHNAJI AND MARGARITA

CAN GUIDE US HERE SO SEE THIS FROM A DIFFERENT VIEW POINT.

>

> As for the accidental death, we can notice that Mercury NK is in

sixth house

> exactly conjunct to Mars (also in navamsa as the conjunction is

exact). I'm

> still confused about the main period lord by the time of death

(Ketu).

ASH : ME TOO. I CANNOT GET ANY SATISFACTORY REASONING.

ALL THAT BEING SAID... I AM ALSO NOT TOO SURE OF BIRTH TIME. A

CHANGE LESS THAN 15 MINUTES CHANGES THE ASCENDENT.

WILL WAIT FOR KRUSHNAJI AND MARGARITA AND OTHERS TO COMMENT ON THE

SAME.

THANKS FOR THE CHART,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

May 15, 2003

Hello Ash,

Philippe,

Well, I’ve

slept over this chart and this is what I think in general terms of the whole

thing.

We must

not try to find new laws to make a chart work. I think a chart indicates the

basic inclinations of a person but this doesn’t mean that he or she really will

follow this path. There are many people who are very good actors but somehow

never make acting as their profession; this for different reasons. I think it’s

with everything in the chart. I’ve seen 2nd house lords breaking up

marriages, even homosexual relationships but I’ve also seen how some people “separate”

during the time of a strong second lord even if they stay together because of

financial or other reasons. So we must not apply the rules to strictly and see

them only as probable results. I add some comments in “italics” in the message

itself

-----Original

Message-----

ashsam73

[ashsam73]

Wednesday, May 14, 2003 4:08