Guest guest Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Dear Margarita, Its due to this fact that because we do not see things in similar way we tend to have good discussions. If we saw things same way we would not have any discussion lol... I get to learn and see things in a different prespective with your posts and thank you for sharing your experiences and prespective on things. Thank you for your words of encouragement. By such discussion I am sure we will get to that truth. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , " dmlettens " <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > Hello Ash, > Perhaps we don't see things the same way. > For you rules are a priority and you try to fit everything in a pattern of > laws and rules. Perhaps things work like that ; they probably do, who knows. > But I'm convinced that I'm unable to know all the laws and rules with their > exceptions and subtleties so I rather " swim " through a chart and focus on > the laws and rules I know. I've learned enormously with this system but I > know other astrologers, even western who with other systems have remarkable > results. So where the truth in all this ? I don't know, I think there are > many truths and every system is only a tool and unfortunately no tool or > system is 100% accurate or perfect. This doesn't mean that I'm not trying > to improve my knowledge but I also think we have some choice and everything > cannot be reduced to rules and laws. If I think back on the generation who > married in the 19tirties. Very few of them divorced. Now these people had no > better horoscopes for marriage than those who marry now although divorce at > the first difficulty that arises. So the former generation stayed together > not out of love, but for social reasons or financial reasons because girls > usually didn't study enough to support a family. So I cannot reduce > everything to rules and points. I think our approach is simply different, > but this doesn't mean that we can have good astrological exchanges and learn > from each other. I enjoy reading your mails and learn a lot of them. > Best regards > Margarita > > > ashsam73 [ashsam73@h...] > Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:54 PM > > Re:4/10 phenomenon > > Dear Margarita, > > I do understand what you are trying to say, but Astrology is not > only an art but a science also with a whole lot of commonsense too > in my opinion. > > You have seen that 2nd lord causes seperation and breaks in marriage > but it there must have been a reason why such a thing happened in > the charts you have seen. That is what I am trying to find out with > these discussions. Things just do not happen out of the blue but > they do follow a pattern or a trend. > > For such a thing to happen either 2nd lord or 2nd house must have > been badly afflicted or there must have been a 4:10 where 2nd lord > got points from 6th lord etc etc.. these are the " rules " that I am > trying to understand all based on this system. > > But I am sure if a Karak breaks something there must be a very valid > reason for it. > > I go with the basic pretex that this system has ALL the answers. If > something in the chart does not match with the rules that have been > taught then I come to an conclusion that there must be something or > some variation of a basic rule as I call it or maybe a new rule > altogether. When I say rule I also mean a general understanding > with the arts part of it. For example when you explained with that > post given by Rajeshwari regarding Menaka Ghandhis chart you > immediately picked up the fact that " if a strong significators antra > comes early in life then the person marries in the first > significator after he/she matures " . I do not know what to call this > a new law or a gray area but there was a scientific fact behind that > reasoning and that is what I am trying to find out. > > For eg.. Karak planet despite aspecting house A,B or C can furnish > the result if its very strong i.e. having points over 20 in > worksheet. Now this rule only came out due to discussion between > You, Sanjay and Krushnaji. So there was a new rule hidden somewhere > only fact was that it was not documented in the lesson. > > I cannot say that this is a variation to the rules we have been > taught in the basics but I can consider this as new law or a big > exception to the general rule. > > > Krushnaji also has said 80-90% of events in the chart must match > with the given time of birth. When you talk of such accuracies > there must be certain laws, rules etc one must follow which is > scientific. > > In the example you gave regarding 2nd lord seperating a couple from > a marriage but they still staying together also must have an > astrological reason.. maybe the planet that caused this got points > from a yogakarak or maybe moon was palaced in a particular > constellation or divisional chart, maybe they married in a planet > that was in nakshatra of venus or in mahadasha of natural or > functional karak etc etc.. there may be so many laws as I call it > or rules that are not given in the lessons. To Krushnaji or you or > more learned astrologers that may be a straight foward answer or a > given.. but it may still need some explanation so that person who > are learning basics can see or get to understand a pattern of > things. > > Another example, Moon in Jayeshta in Scorpio I had no idea that it > makes a person more rigid or firm in their approach until Krushnaji > said that in a clarification in a discussion. You also knew about > that but I had no idea about that law. I do not know where to read > up on these laws if there is an specific book please let me know and > I can go through that. > > So when I say there must be a new law here I mean a) that im crazy > or dumb and something so obvious that I cant see and its right in > front of me or b) there must be a variation or more than subtle > variation of a law given or c) something totally new (like moon in > 12th in female chart enhances delay.. I had no idea about that law > either). > > I hope you understand what I am trying to say too. > > Thanking you, > Cheers !!! > Ash > > > , " dmlettens " > <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > > Hello Ash, Philippe, > > Well, I've slept over this chart and this is what I think in > general terms > > of the whole thing. > > We must not try to find new laws to make a chart work. I think a > chart > > indicates the basic inclinations of a person but this doesn't mean > that he > > or she really will follow this path. There are many people who are > very good > > actors but somehow never make acting as their profession; this for > different > > reasons. I think it's with everything in the chart. I've seen 2nd > house > > lords breaking up marriages, even homosexual relationships but > I've also > > seen how some people " separate " during the time of a strong second > lord even > > if they stay together because of financial or other reasons. So we > must not > > apply the rules to strictly and see them only as probable results. > I add > > some comments in " italics " in the message itself > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Dear Krushnaji, Margarita and Denis, I am using JHL as the sofware for charts. I do not know what JHL uses for nodes. Is that in line with what you recommend Krushnaji ? Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , Labouré Denis <Laboure@W...> wrote: > Dear Margarita, > > You use the mean position of the nodesz. However, you use the true positions > of planets. Why? (astronomically, all the planets have mean positions) > > Best regards > Denis > > > " dmlettens " <dmlettens@s...> > > Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:53 PM > RE: Re:4/10 phenomenon > > > > Hello Philippe, I use mean node. We had a > > discussion about that with Krushna, a long time > > ago when I also used true node. I remember > > changing it to work with the same values he uses. > > Best regards > > Margarita > > > > philippe bonin > > [philippe.bonin@w...] > > Thursday, May 15, 2003 2:27 PM > > > > Re:4/10 > > phenomenon > > > > Hello Margarita, > > > > I've just seen your analysis. Thank you for taking > > time to give your > > comments. I think your explanation could solve the > > problem we had with the > > death of the father. Concerning the artistic > > career, I also think that the > > beginning of success should be a 10th house matter > > rather than 6th. Yes, > > Venus is in D for X=B, but with only 2 points so I > > don't know if it could > > bring success. I get Rahu at the end of Gemini not > > in Cancer (I checked in > > the ephemeris and I'm using Krushna's ayanamsa). > > Maybe this is a mean > > node/true node problem ? > > > > Best regards > > Philippe > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Dear Margarita and Philippe, This particular issues was confusing me. I thought about what both of you thought and I began to see what you both meant. Here are my thoughts which perhaps may need some input from you all and Krushnaji. Here is the logic I am breaking it down 1) Death happens in 3rd lord or planets in 3rd house with greater than 4 bindus. 2) In this case Guru is 3rd lord buts its aspecting House A,B or C so itself cannot give result. Its samdharmi will step in to furnish the result. Now here is the thing. Samdharmi *TO* Guru or Samdharmi *OF* Guru can furnish the result. You had a very valid observation that Shani is in Navamsa of Guru so its samdharmi to Guru and there is a link. So here Shani becomes Samdharnmi to Guru. Samdharmi means similar duty so Shani will have similar duty as Guru so Shani in essence *can work* for Guru. So what you said and Philippe agreed was right in a way. This thought is after some meditation on this topic. On the other hand what I was trying to say was Samdharmi *TO* Guru can furnish result. Here Guru is in its own sign and not linked to Shani i.e. by conjoining, same nakshatra as in shanis placement in nakshatra or same navamsa. Now if Guru is *NOT* samdharmi to Shani. I think this is a finer point and I hope that Krushanji can clear up this fundamental for us. I am curious as this is an important fundamental question in my opinion. Thanking you, A good observation, Cheers !!! Ash , " dmlettens " <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > Hello Ash, > I don't think a samdharmi relationship is needed here, just related in some > way I thought. Perhaps this needs clarification indeed > Best regards > Margarita > > > ashsam73 [ashsam73@h...] > Thursday, May 15, 2003 2:53 PM > > Re:4/10 phenomenon > > Dear Margarita and Philippe, > > Shani is in navamsa of Guru so Shani is samdharmi to Guru. Guru > however is not samdharmi to Shani. > > Death should occur in the 3rd lord or its samdharmi and not planets > that are samdharmi to 3rd lord. > > That was my understanding. I think this point needs clarification. > > ps : I also get Rahu in end of Cancer. > > Thanking you, > Cheers !!! > Ash > > > , " philippe bonin " > <philippe.bonin@w...> wrote: > > Hello Margarita, > > > > I've just seen your analysis. Thank you for taking time to give > your > > comments. I think your explanation could solve the problem we had > with the > > death of the father. Concerning the artistic career, I also think > that the > > beginning of success should be a 10th house matter rather than > 6th. Yes, > > Venus is in D for X=B, but with only 2 points so I don't know if > it could > > bring success. I get Rahu at the end of Gemini not in Cancer (I > checked in > > the ephemeris and I'm using Krushna's ayanamsa). Maybe this is a > mean > > node/true node problem ? > > > > Best regards > > Philippe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Hello Denis, Good to hear from you. You are right to point this out. I just use mean node in this system because Krushna uses it and sometimes I get discrepancies in the outlay of a chart when we discuss it. In a " sidereal chart " I use true node. I'm not really a " purist " in these matters and I never encountered a chart where the difference of the mean and true node was a mayor issue. Perhaps it can be, but I haven't enough experience about that. Best regards Margarita Labouré Denis [Laboure] Friday, May 16, 2003 10:23 AM Re: Re:4/10 phenomenon Dear Margarita, You use the mean position of the nodesz. However, you use the true positions of planets. Why? (astronomically, all the planets have mean positions) Best regards Denis " dmlettens " <dmlettens Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:53 PM RE: Re:4/10 phenomenon > Hello Philippe, I use mean node. We had a > discussion about that with Krushna, a long time > ago when I also used true node. I remember > changing it to work with the same values he uses. > Best regards > Margarita > > philippe bonin > [philippe.bonin] > Thursday, May 15, 2003 2:27 PM > > Re:4/10 > phenomenon > > Hello Margarita, > > I've just seen your analysis. Thank you for taking > time to give your > comments. I think your explanation could solve the > problem we had with the > death of the father. Concerning the artistic > career, I also think that the > beginning of success should be a 10th house matter > rather than 6th. Yes, > Venus is in D for X=B, but with only 2 points so I > don't know if it could > bring success. I get Rahu at the end of Gemini not > in Cancer (I checked in > the ephemeris and I'm using Krushna's ayanamsa). > Maybe this is a mean > node/true node problem ? > > Best regards > Philippe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Dear Margarita, I casted the chart and I am getting Mercury just entering 4th house at 0Sg00'26.02 " . Mercury then is with 4 bindus in 4th BUT it goes into Aries Navamsa making it samdharmi to Mars. So here Mercury is Samdharmi to Mars. Here Mercury has similary duty of Mars and can step in for mars if Mars aspects A,B or C and in this case Mars is aspecting 12th house so its aspecting House C. Mercury's Mahadasha comes first so it can give result. On the same token Saturn is in Navamsa of Scorpio so its samdharmi to Mars. Saturns mahadasha comes before Mars so I do not know why that did not furnish death ? However Moon's antra I am not getting satisfactory answer. Yes it does have high points for 8th house but it has even higher points for 3rd house. Again more unanswered questions, Maybe Krushnaji can check this when he has some time and tell us why Shani's mahadasha did not give death and why Moons antra gave death. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , " dmlettens " <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > Well yes Ash, there is probably a difference. > I have following chart (from another list) who illustrates this topic. > Male born on 31 december 1952 at 22h 50 in Elkton MD USA, zone 5 75W50 – > 38N36. He died on 14 jan 1985 from aids > Asc is 1°32 Virgo and Moon 28°58 Gemini. > He died in Mercury/Moon. Mercury is in 3th house or house A for the 8th with > 7 points. Lord A is Mars but because Mercury is in the 3th he takes over the > job and his MD can function. I don't know how you call this : samdharmi " to " > or " of " ? I just call it relationship, perhaps that's not correct but > anyway. Moon has only 12 points but is natural samdharmi " of " or " to " Mars, > so I suppose she acted for Mars because her bukti comes first and because > Mars cannot give aspects because of his sight on C. I think to predict the > event there were other factors that should be determined first, the > longevity for example. > Best regards > Margarita > > > > ashsam73 [ashsam73@h...] > Friday, May 16, 2003 11:43 AM > > Re:4/10 phenomenon > > Dear Margarita and Philippe, > > This particular issues was confusing me. I thought about what both > of you thought and I began to see what you both meant. > > Here are my thoughts which perhaps may need some input from you all > and Krushnaji. > > Here is the logic I am breaking it down > > 1) Death happens in 3rd lord or planets in 3rd house with greater > than 4 bindus. > 2) In this case Guru is 3rd lord buts its aspecting House A,B or C > so itself cannot give result. Its samdharmi will step in to furnish > the result. > > Now here is the thing. Samdharmi *TO* Guru or Samdharmi *OF* Guru > can furnish the result. > > You had a very valid observation that Shani is in Navamsa of Guru so > its samdharmi to Guru and there is a link. So here Shani becomes > Samdharnmi to Guru. > > Samdharmi means similar duty so Shani will have similar duty as Guru > so Shani in essence *can work* for Guru. So what you said and > Philippe agreed was right in a way. This thought is after some > meditation on this topic. > > On the other hand what I was trying to say was Samdharmi *TO* Guru > can furnish result. > > Here Guru is in its own sign and not linked to Shani i.e. by > conjoining, same nakshatra as in shanis placement in nakshatra or > same navamsa. > > Now if Guru is *NOT* samdharmi to Shani. > > I think this is a finer point and I hope that Krushanji can clear up > this fundamental for us. > > I am curious as this is an important fundamental question in my > opinion. > > Thanking you, > A good observation, > Cheers !!! > Ash > > > , " dmlettens " > <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > > Hello Ash, > > I don't think a samdharmi relationship is needed here, just > related in some > > way I thought. Perhaps this needs clarification indeed > > Best regards > > Margarita > > > > > > ashsam73 [ashsam73@h...] > > Thursday, May 15, 2003 2:53 PM > > > > Re:4/10 phenomenon > > > > Dear Margarita and Philippe, > > > > Shani is in navamsa of Guru so Shani is samdharmi to Guru. Guru > > however is not samdharmi to Shani. > > > > Death should occur in the 3rd lord or its samdharmi and not planets > > that are samdharmi to 3rd lord. > > > > That was my understanding. I think this point needs clarification. > > > > ps : I also get Rahu in end of Cancer. > > > > Thanking you, > > Cheers !!! > > Ash > > > > > > , " philippe bonin " > > <philippe.bonin@w...> wrote: > > > Hello Margarita, > > > > > > I've just seen your analysis. Thank you for taking time to give > > your > > > comments. I think your explanation could solve the problem we had > > with the > > > death of the father. Concerning the artistic career, I also think > > that the > > > beginning of success should be a 10th house matter rather than > > 6th. Yes, > > > Venus is in D for X=B, but with only 2 points so I don't know if > > it could > > > bring success. I get Rahu at the end of Gemini not in Cancer (I > > checked in > > > the ephemeris and I'm using Krushna's ayanamsa). Maybe this is a > > mean > > > node/true node problem ? > > > > > > Best regards > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Dear Margarita, I am not active on the list. However, Philippe and I are working hardly on the Krushna's techniques. Best regards Denis " dmlettens " <dmlettens Friday, May 16, 2003 1:56 PM RE: Re:4/10 phenomenon > Hello Denis, > Good to hear from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Hello Ash, I’ve Mercury at 29°59 in the 3th house Scorpio. The ayanamsa with my program is 22:11:11.So we are not commenting on the same chart. Anyway because of the position of Mercury and a possible error of a few minutes in the TOB can change this chart. It’s perhaps not a good example Best regards Margarita -----Original Message----- ashsam73 [ashsam73] Friday, May 16, 2003 2:26 PM To: Subject: Re:4/10 phenomenon Dear Margarita, I casted the chart and I am getting Mercury just entering 4th house at 0Sg00'26.02 " . Mercury then is with 4 bindus in 4th BUT it goes into Aries Navamsa making it samdharmi to Mars. So here Mercury is Samdharmi to Mars. Here Mercury has similary duty of Mars and can step in for mars if Mars aspects A,B or C and in this case Mars is aspecting 12th house so its aspecting House C. Mercury's Mahadasha comes first so it can give result. On the same token Saturn is in Navamsa of Scorpio so its samdharmi to Mars. Saturns mahadasha comes before Mars so I do not know why that did not furnish death ? However Moon's antra I am not getting satisfactory answer. Yes it does have high points for 8th house but it has even higher points for 3rd house. Again more unanswered questions, Maybe Krushnaji can check this when he has some time and tell us why Shani's mahadasha did not give death and why Moons antra gave death. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , " dmlettens " <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > Well yes Ash, there is probably a difference. > I have following chart (from another list) who illustrates this topic. > Male born on 31 december 1952 at 22h 50 in Elkton MD USA, zone 5 75W50 – > 38N36. He died on 14 jan 1985 from aids > Asc is 1°32 Virgo and Moon 28°58 Gemini. > He died in Mercury/Moon. Mercury is in 3th house or house A for the 8th with > 7 points. Lord A is Mars but because Mercury is in the 3th he takes over the > job and his MD can function. I don't know how you call this : samdharmi " to " > or " of " ? I just call it relationship, perhaps that's not correct but > anyway. Moon has only 12 points but is natural samdharmi " of " or " to " Mars, > so I suppose she acted for Mars because her bukti comes first and because > Mars cannot give aspects because of his sight on C. I think to predict the > event there were other factors that should be determined first, the > longevity for example. > Best regards > Margarita > > > > ashsam73 [ashsam73@h...] > Friday, May 16, 2003 11:43 AM > > Re:4/10 phenomenon > > Dear Margarita and Philippe, > > This particular issues was confusing me. I thought about what both > of you thought and I began to see what you both meant. > > Here are my thoughts which perhaps may need some input from you all > and Krushnaji. > > Here is the logic I am breaking it down > > 1) Death happens in 3rd lord or planets in 3rd house with greater > than 4 bindus. > 2) In this case Guru is 3rd lord buts its aspecting House A,B or C > so itself cannot give result. Its samdharmi will step in to furnish > the result. > > Now here is the thing. Samdharmi *TO* Guru or Samdharmi *OF* Guru > can furnish the result. > > You had a very valid observation that Shani is in Navamsa of Guru so > its samdharmi to Guru and there is a link. So here Shani becomes > Samdharnmi to Guru. > > Samdharmi means similar duty so Shani will have similar duty as Guru > so Shani in essence *can work* for Guru. So what you said and > Philippe agreed was right in a way. This thought is after some > meditation on this topic. > > On the other hand what I was trying to say was Samdharmi *TO* Guru > can furnish result. > > Here Guru is in its own sign and not linked to Shani i.e. by > conjoining, same nakshatra as in shanis placement in nakshatra or > same navamsa. > > Now if Guru is *NOT* samdharmi to Shani. > > I think this is a finer point and I hope that Krushanji can clear up > this fundamental for us. > > I am curious as this is an important fundamental question in my > opinion. > > Thanking you, > A good observation, > Cheers !!! > Ash > > > , " dmlettens " > <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > > Hello Ash, > > I don't think a samdharmi relationship is needed here, just > related in some > > way I thought. Perhaps this needs clarification indeed > > Best regards > > Margarita > > > > > > ashsam73 [ashsam73@h...] > > Thursday, May 15, 2003 2:53 PM > > > > Re:4/10 phenomenon > > > > Dear Margarita and Philippe, > > > > Shani is in navamsa of Guru so Shani is samdharmi to Guru. Guru > > however is not samdharmi to Shani. > > > > Death should occur in the 3rd lord or its samdharmi and not planets > > that are samdharmi to 3rd lord. > > > > That was my understanding. I think this point needs clarification. > > > > ps : I also get Rahu in end of Cancer. > > > > Thanking you, > > Cheers !!! > > Ash > > > > > > , " philippe bonin " > > <philippe.bonin@w...> wrote: > > > Hello Margarita, > > > > > > I've just seen your analysis. Thank you for taking time to give > > your > > > comments. I think your explanation could solve the problem we had > > with the > > > death of the father. Concerning the artistic career, I also think > > that the > > > beginning of success should be a 10th house matter rather than > > 6th. Yes, > > > Venus is in D for X=B, but with only 2 points so I don't know if > > it could > > > bring success. I get Rahu at the end of Gemini not in Cancer (I > > checked in > > > the ephemeris and I'm using Krushna's ayanamsa). Maybe this is a > > mean > > > node/true node problem ? > > > > > > Best regards > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Hello Denis, I understand. Everybody uses the technique that suits him/her best. I also have the impression that we got stuck somehow in this system because every time something turns up that doesn't seem to fit, new laws pop up. Krushna is not following either, seems very busy somewhere. I cannot agree with some of his sayings, for example about profession; this doesn't work at all. Marriage is another topic I refuse to discuss because I don't know what we are talking about. But some laws work really nicely so I pick up what I can use. Succes in your work ! Best regards Margarita Labouré Denis [Laboure] Friday, May 16, 2003 9:08 PM Re: Re:4/10 phenomenon Dear Margarita, I am not active on the list. However, Philippe and I are working hardly on the Krushna's techniques. Best regards Denis " dmlettens " <dmlettens Friday, May 16, 2003 1:56 PM RE: Re:4/10 phenomenon > Hello Denis, > Good to hear from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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