Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Hello, This is my brother's chart. The Krushna's system works well for the most part of events. However, There are two events I do not understand. Birthdatas: 13 october 1957 18h30CET (17h30 UT) Châtellerault (0E33 46N49). Ascendant: 7°06' Aries. FIRST QUESTION The marriage took place on 15th october 1983. They started to live in the same flat three months before this date (they live together in july or august 1983). Period and subperiod were Jupiter/Jupiter. The subperiod is ok as Jupiter is lord of the 12th house. However, Jupiter has nothing to see with the Karakas (functional or natural). Why the event took place in the PERIOD of Jupiter? SECOND QUESTION The third child (a girl) was born on 9 august 1994, in Jupiter/Moon. Why? Thanks a lot for your help. Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Hello Denis, I’m not a great enthusiastic in discussing marriage but in your brother’s chart all planets, except Mars, have good points for the 7th house. So this could be a “7th house marriage”. On first sight, this person seems a bit aloof in relationship but Jupiter is good in the 12th and 7th house for which he works well. He also has 6 points for the 7th and 12th houses. His total is also OK. As to the main period of Jupiter, this is less important but Jupiter is samdharmi to Mars, the 7th lord, so in this way he is related to the 7th house anyway. As for the childbirth, perhaps we have to consult his wife’s chart. Anyway somewhere Krushna stated that the time of conception also should be considered. For the birth on 03 august 1994 conception happened in Jupiter/Sun and Sun’s total points are 20 for the 12th. Sun is lord E so he can give conception. Jupiter’s point are low for the 5th, yes, but he is not afflicted in rasi nor navamsa so he could work. As main period lord Jupiter is karak for the 5th house. Don’t know if this helps ? Best regards Margarita -----Original Message----- Labouré Denis [Laboure] Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:16 PM To: Subject: Marriage and childbirth Hello, This is my brother's chart. The Krushna's system works well for the most part of events. However, There are two events I do not understand. Birthdatas: 13 october 1957 18h30CET (17h30 UT) Châtellerault (0E33 46N49). Ascendant: 7°06' Aries. FIRST QUESTION The marriage took place on 15th october 1983. They started to live in the same flat three months before this date (they live together in july or august 1983). Period and subperiod were Jupiter/Jupiter. The subperiod is ok as Jupiter is lord of the 12th house. However, Jupiter has nothing to see with the Karakas (functional or natural). Why the event took place in the PERIOD of Jupiter? SECOND QUESTION The third child (a girl) was born on 9 august 1994, in Jupiter/Moon. Why? Thanks a lot for your help. Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Dear Denis and Margarita, Yes, my understanding is also the same as Margarita. We have to consider conception time so that falls about Nov'93 taking it into Suns antra. Sun has only 9 points for 5th house but as Margarita pointed out it has 20 points for 12th house. In one mail Krushnaji had pointed out that if House A has more than 20 points then it may give results. I also checked Saptamsa and Sun is situated with Shani the strongest significator for child birth. I wonder if this can be taken as samdharmi w.r.t divisional charts ??? But in any case both Shani and Sun are located in sign of Virgo who is 6th lord in Rasi so it should loose its power ? I also checked the power that Sun has in Saptamsa i.e A+B+C so I got 4+4+6 = 14 points so its more than 12 ??? So I do not have a valid reasoning except the fact that Sun is very strong for 12th house who is karaktwa for 5th... Maybe Krushnaji when he has time can clarify this event. W.r.t Guru Mahadasha, the Mahadasha gives the karaktwa and karaktwa for 5th house and 2nd house goes to Guru. So your brother may have married with the intent of increasing family and for love. Mahadasha check is secondary. Gurus sub came after the delay period was over. Actually it was mars but Mars has low points for 7th house so Guru's sub gave result. Guru is LOE so its eager to give result. I am not clear with the child birth but Marriage fits well. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash , " dmlettens " <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > Hello Denis, > I'm not a great enthusiastic in discussing marriage but in your brother's > chart all planets, except Mars, have good points for the 7th house. So this > could be a " 7th house marriage " . On first sight, this person seems a bit > aloof in relationship but Jupiter is good in the 12th and 7th house for > which he works well. He also has 6 points for the 7th and 12th houses. His > total is also OK. > As to the main period of Jupiter, this is less important but Jupiter is > samdharmi to Mars, the 7th lord, so in this way he is related to the 7th > house anyway. > As for the childbirth, perhaps we have to consult his wife's chart. Anyway > somewhere Krushna stated that the time of conception also should be > considered. For the birth on 03 august 1994 conception happened in > Jupiter/Sun and Sun's total points are 20 for the 12th. Sun is lord E so he > can give conception. > Jupiter's point are low for the 5th, yes, but he is not afflicted in rasi > nor navamsa so he could work. > As main period lord Jupiter is karak for the 5th house. > Don't know if this helps ? > Best regards > Margarita > > Labouré Denis [Laboure@W...] > Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:16 PM > > Marriage and childbirth > > Hello, > > This is my brother's chart. The Krushna's system works well for the most > part of events. However, There are two events I do not understand. > > Birthdatas: > 13 october 1957 18h30CET (17h30 UT) Châtellerault (0E33 46N49). Ascendant: > 7°06' Aries. > > > FIRST QUESTION > The marriage took place on 15th october 1983. They started to live in the > same flat three months before this date (they live together in july or > august 1983). Period and subperiod were Jupiter/Jupiter. The subperiod is ok > as Jupiter is lord of the 12th house. However, Jupiter has nothing to see > with the Karakas (functional or natural). Why the event took place in the > PERIOD of Jupiter? > > SECOND QUESTION > The third child (a girl) was born on 9 august 1994, in Jupiter/Moon. Why? > > Thanks a lot for your help. > Denis > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Dear Asham and Margarita, Thank you for your answers. About the childbirth, I had a talk with Philippe. We suggest, in the male charts, the 5th house indicates the BIRTHdate, not the conception. As the astrologers usually look for children in female charts, they perhaps have overlooked this point. What is your feeling about this idea? My brother has three children (three girls). These are the birthdates: * 24 march 1986 * 7 may 1986. * 9 august 1994. Between the second and the third children, the mother had a miscarriage. From 1991, he has his own business. About July 1991, he started it. It became officially registered in november 91. So, it was the most important change in his carreer. He is successfull in his business. How could Jupiter/Venus indicate that? Best regards Denis - ashsam73 Thursday, June 05, 2003 12:55 PM Re: Marriage and childbirth Dear Denis and Margarita,Yes, my understanding is also the same as Margarita. We have to consider conception time so that falls about Nov'93 taking it into Suns antra.Sun has only 9 points for 5th house but as Margarita pointed out it has 20 points for 12th house. In one mail Krushnaji had pointed out that if House A has more than 20 points then it may give results.I also checked Saptamsa and Sun is situated with Shani the strongest significator for child birth. I wonder if this can be taken as samdharmi w.r.t divisional charts ??? But in any case both Shani and Sun are located in sign of Virgo who is 6th lord in Rasi so it should loose its power ?I also checked the power that Sun has in Saptamsa i.e A+B+C so I got 4+4+6 = 14 points so its more than 12 ???So I do not have a valid reasoning except the fact that Sun is very strong for 12th house who is karaktwa for 5th...Maybe Krushnaji when he has time can clarify this event.W.r.t Guru Mahadasha, the Mahadasha gives the karaktwa and karaktwa for 5th house and 2nd house goes to Guru. So your brother may have married with the intent of increasing family and for love. Mahadasha check is secondary. Gurus sub came after the delay period was over. Actually it was mars but Mars has low points for 7th house so Guru's sub gave result. Guru is LOE so its eager to give result.I am not clear with the child birth but Marriage fits well.Thanks,Cheers !!!Ash , "dmlettens" <dmlettens@s...> wrote:> Hello Denis,> I'm not a great enthusiastic in discussing marriage but in your brother's> chart all planets, except Mars, have good points for the 7th house. So this> could be a "7th house marriage". On first sight, this person seems a bit> aloof in relationship but Jupiter is good in the 12th and 7th house for> which he works well. He also has 6 points for the 7th and 12th houses. His> total is also OK.> As to the main period of Jupiter, this is less important but Jupiter is> samdharmi to Mars, the 7th lord, so in this way he is related to the 7th> house anyway.> As for the childbirth, perhaps we have to consult his wife's chart. Anyway> somewhere Krushna stated that the time of conception also should be> considered. For the birth on 03 august 1994 conception happened in> Jupiter/Sun and Sun's total points are 20 for the 12th. Sun is lord E so he> can give conception.> Jupiter's point are low for the 5th, yes, but he is not afflicted in rasi> nor navamsa so he could work.> As main period lord Jupiter is karak for the 5th house.> Don't know if this helps ?> Best regards> Margarita> > Labouré Denis [Laboure@W...]> Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:16 PM> > Marriage and childbirth> > Hello,> > This is my brother's chart. The Krushna's system works well for the most> part of events. However, There are two events I do not understand.> > Birthdatas:> 13 october 1957 18h30CET (17h30 UT) Châtellerault (0E33 46N49). Ascendant:> 7°06' Aries.> > > FIRST QUESTION> The marriage took place on 15th october 1983. They started to live in the> same flat three months before this date (they live together in july or> august 1983). Period and subperiod were Jupiter/Jupiter. The subperiod is ok> as Jupiter is lord of the 12th house. However, Jupiter has nothing to see> with the Karakas (functional or natural). Why the event took place in the> PERIOD of Jupiter?> > SECOND QUESTION> The third child (a girl) was born on 9 august 1994, in Jupiter/Moon. Why?> > Thanks a lot for your help.> Denis> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 Hello Denis, Venus is the lord of the 2nd house and is supposed to bring worries, troubles and also health problems. But the 2nd lord is not bad for every aspect in life. I would see his starting his own business and “recognition” (being officially registered) as a 5th house matter (house of “crown”) There Venus works beautifully. She is lord D for the 5th and lord of C and D for the 10th. She has high points for all the houses. The negative Venus’ effects were probably felt in another aspect of life. Note that Ketu, coming just before Venus is also under Venus’ influence. This is also probably the period his wife had a miscarriage. Setting up his own business was probably not easy, so he worked very hard and overcame lots of difficulties that can perhaps be related to the negative influence of the second lord. I recently did a chart of somebody who during a similar period of second lord got two promotions with big pay rise but his wife was cheating on him. Everybody knew about it, except he himself. So I would suggest you try to find out what other events could have happened in this period. As for children, I think it’s better to have a look at both charts of husband and wife. Astrologically speaking, some people can have children at a certain period but they prefer not to have any. So it’s difficult to say. But in my experience no children are born in periods of planets with low points or planet that cannot give results. I have not studied extensively childbirth topic and used it only for correcting a doubtful TOB or for childless couples to indicate a period when there’s more change to conceive. If you have a special interest in this topic, there is an article by Kirsten Tingstad “The management of conception through astrology” published in Hindu astrology Lessons edited by Richard Houck. The method she uses is based on the angle between Sun and Moon compared to Sun/moon angle in her own horoscope. I didn’t work on that…..yet ! Best regards Margarita -----Original Message----- Labouré Denis [Laboure] Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:29 PM Re: Re: Marriage and childbirth Dear Asham and Margarita, Thank you for your answers. About the childbirth, I had a talk with Philippe. We suggest, in the male charts, the 5th house indicates the BIRTHdate, not the conception. As the astrologers usually look for children in female charts, they perhaps have overlooked this point. What is your feeling about this idea? My brother has three children (three girls). These are the birthdates: * 24 march 1986 * 7 may 1986. * 9 august 1994. Between the second and the third children, the mother had a miscarriage. From 1991, he has his own business. About July 1991, he started it. It became officially registered in november 91. So, it was the most important change in his carreer. He is successfull in his business. How could Jupiter/Venus indicate that? Best regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- ashsam73 Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 12:55 PM Re: Marriage and childbirth Dear Denis and Margarita, Yes, my understanding is also the same as Margarita. We have to consider conception time so that falls about Nov'93 taking it into Suns antra. Sun has only 9 points for 5th house but as Margarita pointed out it has 20 points for 12th house. In one mail Krushnaji had pointed out that if House A has more than 20 points then it may give results. I also checked Saptamsa and Sun is situated with Shani the strongest significator for child birth. I wonder if this can be taken as samdharmi w.r.t divisional charts ??? But in any case both Shani and Sun are located in sign of Virgo who is 6th lord in Rasi so it should loose its power ? I also checked the power that Sun has in Saptamsa i.e A+B+C so I got 4+4+6 = 14 points so its more than 12 ??? So I do not have a valid reasoning except the fact that Sun is very strong for 12th house who is karaktwa for 5th... Maybe Krushnaji when he has time can clarify this event. W.r.t Guru Mahadasha, the Mahadasha gives the karaktwa and karaktwa for 5th house and 2nd house goes to Guru. So your brother may have married with the intent of increasing family and for love. Mahadasha check is secondary. Gurus sub came after the delay period was over. Actually it was mars but Mars has low points for 7th house so Guru's sub gave result. Guru is LOE so its eager to give result. I am not clear with the child birth but Marriage fits well. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash , " dmlettens " <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > Hello Denis, > I'm not a great enthusiastic in discussing marriage but in your brother's > chart all planets, except Mars, have good points for the 7th house. So this > could be a " 7th house marriage " . On first sight, this person seems a bit > aloof in relationship but Jupiter is good in the 12th and 7th house for > which he works well. He also has 6 points for the 7th and 12th houses. His > total is also OK. > As to the main period of Jupiter, this is less important but Jupiter is > samdharmi to Mars, the 7th lord, so in this way he is related to the 7th > house anyway. > As for the childbirth, perhaps we have to consult his wife's chart. Anyway > somewhere Krushna stated that the time of conception also should be > considered. For the birth on 03 august 1994 conception happened in > Jupiter/Sun and Sun's total points are 20 for the 12th. Sun is lord E so he > can give conception. > Jupiter's point are low for the 5th, yes, but he is not afflicted in rasi > nor navamsa so he could work. > As main period lord Jupiter is karak for the 5th house. > Don't know if this helps ? > Best regards > Margarita > > Labouré Denis [Laboure@W...] > Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:16 PM > > Marriage and childbirth > > Hello, > > This is my brother's chart. The Krushna's system works well for the most > part of events. However, There are two events I do not understand. > > Birthdatas: > 13 october 1957 18h30CET (17h30 UT) Châtellerault (0E33 46N49). Ascendant: > 7°06' Aries. > > > FIRST QUESTION > The marriage took place on 15th october 1983. They started to live in the > same flat three months before this date (they live together in july or > august 1983). Period and subperiod were Jupiter/Jupiter. The subperiod is ok > as Jupiter is lord of the 12th house. However, Jupiter has nothing to see > with the Karakas (functional or natural). Why the event took place in the > PERIOD of Jupiter? > > SECOND QUESTION > The third child (a girl) was born on 9 august 1994, in Jupiter/Moon. Why? > > Thanks a lot for your help. > Denis > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Denis, You have given 2 dates of your brothers chidrens as " 24 march 1986 and 7 may 1986. " ? I think there seems to be some typo here ? Can you verify please. Just call me Ash. lol. Cheers !!! Ash , Labouré Denis <Laboure@W...> wrote: > Dear Asham and Margarita, > > Thank you for your answers. About the childbirth, I had a talk with Philippe. We suggest, in the male charts, the 5th house indicates the BIRTHdate, not the conception. As the astrologers usually look for children in female charts, they perhaps have overlooked this point. What is your feeling about this idea? > > My brother has three children (three girls). These are the birthdates: > * 24 march 1986 > * 7 may 1986. > * 9 august 1994. > Between the second and the third children, the mother had a miscarriage. > > From 1991, he has his own business. About July 1991, he started it. It became officially registered in november 91. So, it was the most important change in his carreer. He is successfull in his business. How could Jupiter/Venus indicate that? > > > Best regards > Denis > > > > > - > ashsam73 > > Thursday, June 05, 2003 12:55 PM > Re: Marriage and childbirth > > > Dear Denis and Margarita, > > Yes, my understanding is also the same as Margarita. We have to > consider conception time so that falls about Nov'93 taking it into > Suns antra. > > Sun has only 9 points for 5th house but as Margarita pointed out it > has 20 points for 12th house. In one mail Krushnaji had pointed out > that if House A has more than 20 points then it may give results. > > I also checked Saptamsa and Sun is situated with Shani the strongest > significator for child birth. I wonder if this can be taken as > samdharmi w.r.t divisional charts ??? But in any case both Shani > and Sun are located in sign of Virgo who is 6th lord in Rasi so it > should loose its power ? > > I also checked the power that Sun has in Saptamsa i.e A+B+C so I got > 4+4+6 = 14 points so its more than 12 ??? > > So I do not have a valid reasoning except the fact that Sun is very > strong for 12th house who is karaktwa for 5th... > > Maybe Krushnaji when he has time can clarify this event. > > W.r.t Guru Mahadasha, the Mahadasha gives the karaktwa and karaktwa > for 5th house and 2nd house goes to Guru. So your brother may have > married with the intent of increasing family and for love. > Mahadasha check is secondary. Gurus sub came after the delay period > was over. Actually it was mars but Mars has low points for 7th house > so Guru's sub gave result. Guru is LOE so its eager to give result. > > > I am not clear with the child birth but Marriage fits well. > > Thanks, > Cheers !!! > Ash > > , " dmlettens " > <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > > Hello Denis, > > I'm not a great enthusiastic in discussing marriage but in your > brother's > > chart all planets, except Mars, have good points for the 7th > house. So this > > could be a " 7th house marriage " . On first sight, this person seems > a bit > > aloof in relationship but Jupiter is good in the 12th and 7th > house for > > which he works well. He also has 6 points for the 7th and 12th > houses. His > > total is also OK. > > As to the main period of Jupiter, this is less important but > Jupiter is > > samdharmi to Mars, the 7th lord, so in this way he is related to > the 7th > > house anyway. > > As for the childbirth, perhaps we have to consult his wife's > chart. Anyway > > somewhere Krushna stated that the time of conception also should be > > considered. For the birth on 03 august 1994 conception happened in > > Jupiter/Sun and Sun's total points are 20 for the 12th. Sun is > lord E so he > > can give conception. > > Jupiter's point are low for the 5th, yes, but he is not afflicted > in rasi > > nor navamsa so he could work. > > As main period lord Jupiter is karak for the 5th house. > > Don't know if this helps ? > > Best regards > > Margarita > > > > Labouré Denis [Laboure@W...] > > Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:16 PM > > > > Marriage and childbirth > > > > Hello, > > > > This is my brother's chart. The Krushna's system works well for > the most > > part of events. However, There are two events I do not understand. > > > > Birthdatas: > > 13 october 1957 18h30CET (17h30 UT) Châtellerault (0E33 46N49). > Ascendant: > > 7°06' Aries. > > > > > > FIRST QUESTION > > The marriage took place on 15th october 1983. They started to live > in the > > same flat three months before this date (they live together in > july or > > august 1983). Period and subperiod were Jupiter/Jupiter. The > subperiod is ok > > as Jupiter is lord of the 12th house. However, Jupiter has nothing > to see > > with the Karakas (functional or natural). Why the event took place > in the > > PERIOD of Jupiter? > > > > SECOND QUESTION > > The third child (a girl) was born on 9 august 1994, in > Jupiter/Moon. Why? > > > > Thanks a lot for your help. > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Denis, Margarita and Philippe, I think we have to look at conception even in Male chart. For example in your brothers chart for first child 24th March 1986 if we take conception to be about June 1985 then that would take you to 1st 1/3rd part in Saturns antra. If you consider birth date then its 2nd 1/3rd part. Shani aspects House B but not house C or A or lords of C or A. So basically this should give results in first part only. For the 3rd child I am not getting any satisfactory answer. Venus antra can give conception but I am getting conception in about end September 1993 for birth in 9th August 1994. With the 13 days either way buffer it may just fall in very end of Venus antra which fits well because Venus then is LOD for 5th = B. For Second Childbirth can you verify the date please. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , Labouré Denis <Laboure@W...> wrote: > Dear Asham and Margarita, > > Thank you for your answers. About the childbirth, I had a talk with Philippe. We suggest, in the male charts, the 5th house indicates the BIRTHdate, not the conception. As the astrologers usually look for children in female charts, they perhaps have overlooked this point. What is your feeling about this idea? > > My brother has three children (three girls). These are the birthdates: > * 24 march 1986 > * 7 may 1986. > * 9 august 1994. > Between the second and the third children, the mother had a miscarriage. > > From 1991, he has his own business. About July 1991, he started it. It became officially registered in november 91. So, it was the most important change in his carreer. He is successfull in his business. How could Jupiter/Venus indicate that? > > > Best regards > Denis > > > > > - > ashsam73 > > Thursday, June 05, 2003 12:55 PM > Re: Marriage and childbirth > > > Dear Denis and Margarita, > > Yes, my understanding is also the same as Margarita. We have to > consider conception time so that falls about Nov'93 taking it into > Suns antra. > > Sun has only 9 points for 5th house but as Margarita pointed out it > has 20 points for 12th house. In one mail Krushnaji had pointed out > that if House A has more than 20 points then it may give results. > > I also checked Saptamsa and Sun is situated with Shani the strongest > significator for child birth. I wonder if this can be taken as > samdharmi w.r.t divisional charts ??? But in any case both Shani > and Sun are located in sign of Virgo who is 6th lord in Rasi so it > should loose its power ? > > I also checked the power that Sun has in Saptamsa i.e A+B+C so I got > 4+4+6 = 14 points so its more than 12 ??? > > So I do not have a valid reasoning except the fact that Sun is very > strong for 12th house who is karaktwa for 5th... > > Maybe Krushnaji when he has time can clarify this event. > > W.r.t Guru Mahadasha, the Mahadasha gives the karaktwa and karaktwa > for 5th house and 2nd house goes to Guru. So your brother may have > married with the intent of increasing family and for love. > Mahadasha check is secondary. Gurus sub came after the delay period > was over. Actually it was mars but Mars has low points for 7th house > so Guru's sub gave result. Guru is LOE so its eager to give result. > > > I am not clear with the child birth but Marriage fits well. > > Thanks, > Cheers !!! > Ash > > , " dmlettens " > <dmlettens@s...> wrote: > > Hello Denis, > > I'm not a great enthusiastic in discussing marriage but in your > brother's > > chart all planets, except Mars, have good points for the 7th > house. So this > > could be a " 7th house marriage " . On first sight, this person seems > a bit > > aloof in relationship but Jupiter is good in the 12th and 7th > house for > > which he works well. He also has 6 points for the 7th and 12th > houses. His > > total is also OK. > > As to the main period of Jupiter, this is less important but > Jupiter is > > samdharmi to Mars, the 7th lord, so in this way he is related to > the 7th > > house anyway. > > As for the childbirth, perhaps we have to consult his wife's > chart. Anyway > > somewhere Krushna stated that the time of conception also should be > > considered. For the birth on 03 august 1994 conception happened in > > Jupiter/Sun and Sun's total points are 20 for the 12th. Sun is > lord E so he > > can give conception. > > Jupiter's point are low for the 5th, yes, but he is not afflicted > in rasi > > nor navamsa so he could work. > > As main period lord Jupiter is karak for the 5th house. > > Don't know if this helps ? > > Best regards > > Margarita > > > > Labouré Denis [Laboure@W...] > > Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:16 PM > > > > Marriage and childbirth > > > > Hello, > > > > This is my brother's chart. The Krushna's system works well for > the most > > part of events. However, There are two events I do not understand. > > > > Birthdatas: > > 13 october 1957 18h30CET (17h30 UT) Châtellerault (0E33 46N49). > Ascendant: > > 7°06' Aries. > > > > > > FIRST QUESTION > > The marriage took place on 15th october 1983. They started to live > in the > > same flat three months before this date (they live together in > july or > > august 1983). Period and subperiod were Jupiter/Jupiter. The > subperiod is ok > > as Jupiter is lord of the 12th house. However, Jupiter has nothing > to see > > with the Karakas (functional or natural). Why the event took place > in the > > PERIOD of Jupiter? > > > > SECOND QUESTION > > The third child (a girl) was born on 9 august 1994, in > Jupiter/Moon. Why? > > > > Thanks a lot for your help. > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Margarita, Ash and all members of the list, Thank you for your answers about my brother's chart. May we go further? * The third child was born in the Moon subperiod. The Moon is lord of the 4th house, which is the 12th form the 5th house. I understand the Moon has only 3 points in its ashtakavarga. So, it is weak. I could accept it is not so bad for children. However, is it enough to predict a birthchild in its subperiod? If we follow this line of reasoning (we predict a birthchild in the subperiod of the lord of the 12th from house B), we could predict a birthchild in each subperiod! There is some others points I do not understand about marriage. There is a no problem in their family life. They live in the same city I stay, so I visit them frequently. However: * In the SAV, 7th house gets 20 points only. * Venus is 44 far from the Sun. Venus is aspected (conjunction) by Saturn. * Venus gets 0 point for the 7th house in the BAV. According to the rules, it should affect the 12th, 7th and 3rd houses. There is no problem in their partnership. There is no problem with his brothers. So, how may we understand such astrological combinations? Thanks a lot for your lights. Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Ash, I am sorry. The right dates are: *15 october 1983 *24 march 1986 *7 may 1990 Best regards Denis - ashsam73 Friday, June 06, 2003 4:08 PM Re: Marriage and childbirth Dear Denis,You have given 2 dates of your brothers chidrens as "24 march 1986and 7 may 1986." ?I think there seems to be some typo here ?Can you verify please.Just call me Ash. lol.Cheers !!!Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Denis, Let me try to answer these quesetions. 1) If you check your brothers chart, Shani in his chart is in 3 places in navamsa, drekkhan and timsamsa in his chart. This means he is very intelligent and will be very understanding. 2) With high points in SAV in 1st house he is a confident chap just generally. He is more rigid in his thinking and maybe firm in his decisions. During a conflict he may be dominating his wife, basically having things done his way. 3) Last but not least we also need to check the compatibility between his and his wifes chart. If Rahu, Shani, Venus and Mars have relation then there is good attraction. This is also the case of Gandharva vivah or love marriage. Venus to Sun distance > 44 degrees could mean he could have had a few girl friends maybe before he got married. For child birth I have seen and you also have probably seen Krushnaji correct charts with child birth accurately. I am sure there may be something more to it but in General plants with high points give results or LOD or LOE i.e. for male 10th lord or 2nd lord and planets in them > 4 bindus OR even if 12th lord has > 20 points i.e LOA so it authroises event B i.e. Child birth. But very interesting case and I am sure we all will learn something new from this. Thanks for posting your brothers chart, Cheers !!! Ash , Labouré Denis <Laboure@W...> wrote: > Dear Margarita, Ash and all members of the list, > > Thank you for your answers about my brother's chart. May we go further? > > * The third child was born in the Moon subperiod. The Moon is lord of the 4th house, which is the 12th form the 5th house. I understand the Moon has only 3 points in its ashtakavarga. So, it is weak. I could accept it is not so bad for children. However, is it enough to predict a birthchild in its subperiod? If we follow this line of reasoning (we predict a birthchild in the subperiod of the lord of the 12th from house B), we could predict a birthchild in each subperiod! > > There is some others points I do not understand about marriage. There is a no problem in their family life. They live in the same city I stay, so I visit them frequently. However: > * In the SAV, 7th house gets 20 points only. > * Venus is 44 far from the Sun. Venus is aspected (conjunction) by Saturn. > * Venus gets 0 point for the 7th house in the BAV. According to the rules, it should affect the 12th, 7th and 3rd houses. There is no problem in their partnership. There is no problem with his brothers. > So, how may we understand such astrological combinations? > > Thanks a lot for your lights. > Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Denis, Do you have your brothers' wifes chart. I would be very curious to study the relation between his mars, venus, shani and rahu as compared to his wifes. Also it would verify birth of children too maybe events of birth of children can be more clearer from her chart ? Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , Labouré Denis <Laboure@W...> wrote: > Dear Ash, > > I am sorry. > > The right dates are: > *15 october 1983 > *24 march 1986 > *7 may 1990 > > Best regards > Denis > - > ashsam73 > > Friday, June 06, 2003 4:08 PM > Re: Marriage and childbirth > > > Dear Denis, > > You have given 2 dates of your brothers chidrens as " 24 march 1986 > and 7 may 1986. " ? > I think there seems to be some typo here ? > Can you verify please. > > Just call me Ash. lol. > > Cheers !!! > Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Denis, With these dates I am getting the following. These are more in line with the system. 1) First child : 15th October 1983 so conception around Jan 1983 i.e. Rahu/Rahu. Rahu = Venus i.e. 2nd lord or LOD for 5th as B so eager to give result. 2) Second Child : 24th March 1986 so conception around June 1985 i.e in Guru/Shani antra. Shani is LOD for 5th=B. So again eager to give result. 3) Third Child : 7th May 1990 so conception around August 1989 i.e. Guru/Mercury. Mercury has 17 points BUT is aspecting House A i.e. 12th house. So it has sufficient points but it should not give results. Mercury is not samdharmi to Venus or Shani. Now here is someting interesting : Mercury is with Venus and Mars in 3rd house in Saptamsa ? Can we extend principle of Samdharmi into Divisional chart for a particular event ? i.e. for event of child birth does Mercury become samdharmi to Venus (LOD in Rasi) Just for child birth ???????? I may be totally off in my thought process. Krushnaji can you please see if this reasoning is correct w.r.t divisional chart. Mercury has 11 points i.e. A+B+C in saptamsa so its weak there too ?? Again not fully satisfied with the reasoning of Mercury ? I would like to hear view of Margarita and others too. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , Labouré Denis <Laboure@W...> wrote: > Dear Ash, > > I am sorry. > > The right dates are: > *15 october 1983 > *24 march 1986 > *7 may 1990 > > Best regards > Denis > - > ashsam73 > > Friday, June 06, 2003 4:08 PM > Re: Marriage and childbirth > > > Dear Denis, > > You have given 2 dates of your brothers chidrens as " 24 march 1986 > and 7 may 1986. " ? > I think there seems to be some typo here ? > Can you verify please. > > Just call me Ash. lol. > > Cheers !!! > Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Denis and list members, Sorry I forgot to add this to my previous mail as this is an after thought. If you also notice that in your brothers chart for 5th house only 3 planets are strong i.e. Mercury, Venus and Saturn i.e. have points greater than 12. Out of these 3, Venus and Saturn are LOD and LOE. You will also notice that the conception of all 3 children took place ONLY in these strong significators. This I think tallys with what Margarita had said in an earlier post regarding birth of children only in strong significators that she encountered in her research. I am not sure why Mercury's antra gave result due to its aspect on House A but it does have enough points i.e. 17 for 5th house, but I guess there must be a reason that Krushnaji or Margarita can see and guide us. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , Labouré Denis <Laboure@W...> wrote: > Dear Ash, > > I am sorry. > > The right dates are: > *15 october 1983 > *24 march 1986 > *7 may 1990 > > Best regards > Denis > - > ashsam73 > > Friday, June 06, 2003 4:08 PM > Re: Marriage and childbirth > > > Dear Denis, > > You have given 2 dates of your brothers chidrens as " 24 march 1986 > and 7 may 1986. " ? > I think there seems to be some typo here ? > Can you verify please. > > Just call me Ash. lol. > > Cheers !!! > Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 Dear Asham, These are some extra infos I got from my brother. His wife was born on 1st October 1957 at 10h45 CET (9h45UT) in Montbrison (France: 4E03 45N36). They really live together (in the same flat) from 1st october 1981. Best regards Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 Hello Denis, I checked the birth of children in this birth chart. As asc fall in first degree of Scorpio I also tried with Libra asc but I think Scorpio works better. In female chart 11th house is considered because everything is considered from the man’s view point so the 11th becomes the the 5th of the 7th = spouse. As the wife’s role cannot be “excluded” entirely the 5th is also considered. First child was conceived in Mars/Ketu and born in Mars/Venus. Ketu is Mars/Venus/Mercury and only Mercury has high points for the 12th; this seems OK. Venus is also in B for the 12th. For birth Venus is in A for the 5th,has high points for the 11th and enough in the 5th. Transit of Sun was in Virgo = Mercury with high points for both 11th and 5th houses. To me this birth seems justified according to the rules. Second child was conceived in Mars/Moon and born in Rahu/Rahu. Moon has good points for the 12th. Rahu = Venus/Rahu/Jupiter. Jupiter only scores high for the 5th. Transit of Sun was in Pisces = Jupiter/Saturn. Well this seems less evident because Jupiter has high points for the 5th and Saturn for the 11th. I find this less relevant than the first birth anyway. Third child was conceived and born in Rahu/Jupiter. Here Jupiter comes again; he works beautifully for the 12th and 5th houses but I agree that for the 11th he cannot give results; he doesn’t work for the 11th. Transit of Sun was in Mars/Sun. This is OK for the Sun. Now some personal thoughts. We have seen that the laws of traditional Indian marriage don’t work 100% in our society because relationship and marriage are different things in our culture than in India. So perhaps we don’t have to take the laws about the 11th house too strictly. In the West no woman would consider her child belonging to her husband in the first place. In case of divorce children go automatically under the care of the mother (there are exceptions of course) this is not the case in all cultures. Perhaps our children are more 12th and 5th house matters???? I would appreciate some comments on this from Krushna and listmembers Best regards Margarita -----Original Message----- Labouré Denis [Laboure] Sunday, June 08, 2003 8:01 PM To: Re: Re: Marriage and childbirth Dear Asham, These are some extra infos I got from my brother. His wife was born on 1st October 1957 at 10h45 CET (9h45UT) in Montbrison (France: 4E03 45N36). They really live together (in the same flat) from 1st october 1981. Best regards Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 Dear Ash, Shame! I made a mistake yesterday when I sent my brother's wife birthdatas. The right datas are: 1st july (not october) 1957, 10h45 CET (9h45 UT) Montbrison (4E03 45N36). Ascendant 22° Leo. They lived together in the same flat all the week-ends from october 1981 (my brother was studying in another place distant by 400km. So, this life in the same flat was only possible during the week-ends). They live permanently in the same flat from July/August 1983, when the studies were finished. I am very, very sorry. Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Dear Denis, No problems. Just gave me a little more exercise and since I had done analysis with other 2 lagnas too this time i.e. with Leo lagna fits the best. With libra and scorpio lagnas atleast 1 event did not match fully well. Here are my findings with Leo lagna. 1) Move in : Very last part of Sun/Rahu period. Rahu = Jupiter and Venus. Jupiter is in capricorn in Navamsa making it samdharmi to Shani so last part in Rahu antra matches. Guru also has the highest points for 5th house and 15 points for 7th house and 18 points for 12th house and LOE for 12th house. So overall good period. For 11th house matters also its good as Guru is LOD for 11th house as B. So income/conception can also be indicated. 2) Marriage in October 1983 : Sun/Jupiter. Again Jupiter has good points for pretty much all the houses so overall happiness. Guru has highest points for 5th, 17 points for 7th and LOE for 12th and LOD for 11th house matters so all indicators for happiness from these houses. 3) Children a) First Child : Conception in Jan 1983 - Sun/Rahu. Guru is LOD for 11th house so eager to give results. b) Second Child : Conception in June 1985 - Sun/Saturn (very end) and you then have Sun/Mercury. Mercury does not have sufficent points for 11th house but Shani does. Shani seems better here as he has 18 points, Shani is Karak and is placed in House E i.e. 4th hosue for 11th = B. *** This is one law Krushnaji had given (I think in the Samdharmi lesson if my memory serves me right) that If LOA is placed in House D or E it becomes eager to give results even if it has low points.*** Since Shani aspects House A i.e 6th house which is House A for 11th=B but being Karak and to boost it by being placed in House E AND having sufficient points i.e. 18 for 11th house I think it can give results. c) Third child : Conception in August 1989 falls in Moon/Rahu. Again Rahu represents Guru and Venus. and Guru is LOD for 11th as B. This lagna and child birth and also move in and marriage fits well. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash , Labouré Denis <Laboure@W...> wrote: > Dear Ash, > > > Shame! I made a mistake yesterday when I sent my brother's wife birthdatas. > > The right datas are: > 1st july (not october) 1957, 10h45 CET (9h45 UT) Montbrison (4E03 45N36). Ascendant 22° Leo. > > They lived together in the same flat all the week-ends from october 1981 (my brother was studying in another place distant by 400km. So, this life in the same flat was only possible during the week-ends). They live permanently in the same flat from July/August 1983, when the studies were finished. > > I am very, very sorry. > > Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Dear Asham, Thank you for all this work! Best regards Denis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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