Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Dear Graham, I disagree with your sentiments on trying to ascertain the exact day of an Antra - if one wants approximations, then there isn't much point using even accurate birth-times for astrology. The whole point of this is to try to increase accuracy. Sorry if you feel I am being "unwise". Sateesh. ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release 13/02/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Dear Sateesh, It is actually all about the magnitude of error. A small change in birth time can throw dasha start dates by a large value since they critically depend of degree of Moon. That is the reason why we need to insist on getting correct birth times. However, due to the small differences in the precession rates, the dasha start dates can go either ways by a few days. Also, as Ash had once indicated, dasha dates are not like on-off switches. Hence, the boundary might be fuzzy over a period of few days. Chopping off the exact date is something like providing only significant digits of a floating point number. That way the reader knows about the inherent error associated with the value. If my height is 5'8 " , it doesn't mean it is exactly 5'8 " . But if I convey my height as 5'8.245643 " when I am using only an ordinary ruler for measurement, it makes little sense. Never-the-less it shouldn't make a difference if we go to the detail of a day as long as we have the required understanding. Thanks & Regards, Manu , " Sateesh Batas " <makara@n...> wrote: > Dear Graham, > > I disagree with your sentiments on trying to ascertain the exact day of an Antra - if one wants approximations, then there isn't much point using even accurate birth-times for astrology. > > The whole point of this is to try to increase accuracy. Sorry if you feel I am being " unwise " . > > Sateesh. > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release 13/02/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Dear Manu, That said, the point is - if several softwares are giving several dates (granted, within a few days of each other) for the start, I personally think it a useful idea to use (people's) antra start dates to home in on what is a correct value of ayanamsa. It may come across as splitting hairs, but I found 5 of the s/wares are giving (with my birth-time) between the 17th and 21st Feb, whereas 2 others are around the 13th to 15th. Zeroing in (as much as one can) - remember, whether my birth time is correct to the minute or not, I am still using the SAME birthtime for ALL the softwares, it may also be useful for the s/ware developers out there to take note of the (albeit slight) differences. Sateesh. ======== - " Manu Batura " <manubatura Sunday, February 15, 2004 10:27 PM Re: Antra start dates : Dear Sateesh, : : It is actually all about the magnitude of error. A small change in : birth time can throw dasha start dates by a large value since they : critically depend of degree of Moon. That is the reason why we need : to insist on getting correct birth times. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release 13/02/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Dear Sateesh and all, I don't think " wise " was a very good choice of word on my part! I'm very interested in this whole problem, and I myself have a tendency to split hairs! I meant more whether it was in fact possible, for much the reasons Manu gives. I also think that the differences in the software values are largely due to the problem of rate of precession: I've realised, for example, that no software will give the values given by the Krushna Excel ayanamsha sheet: you have to adjust the ayanamsha of the program to make it correspond for each person. For me (8 Jan 1955) it's 1°01', for a friend born 27 Aug 59 it's 1°0'43 " . You can't just use 1°01' or 1°0'55 " and leave it at that, if you want to keep strictly to Krushna's accelerating values as per the Excel sheet. (The chart in lesson 6 on the other hand uses an unchanging increment of 50.33 " /year, and also has a typing error which means you have to subtract 1' from 1954 onwards). So if we're going to opt strictly for the Krushna ayanamsha as per the Excel sheet and try to be as precise as possible, and avoid the problems caused by our programs which average out the rate of precession and don't account for any acceleration, I suppose we should always consult the sheet, and then adjust the software to correspond to it for each separate chart. Some programs (Goravani, I think) have an option for fixing the ayanamsha for dates at regular intervals, and working from the nearest one, so the precession calculations never get too out of hand. That seems the best approach (but there's a slight problem with the moon in Goravani). As I said, this whole question of rate of precession seems to be giving a headache to astronomers and programmers -- if you have time, do check out the references in my last message, I think you'll find them relevant and interesting. Many astrologers, perhaps because of this sort of problem, seem to use periods and sub-periods to narrow things down rather than date to the day, then other techniques to fine-tune, some of which of course are available in this system (transits over nakshatras, influence of Jupiter or Saturn, etc.). Best wishes and wisdom to all! Graham , " Sateesh Batas " <makara@n...> wrote: > Dear Manu, > > That said, the point is - if several softwares are giving several dates > (granted, within a few days of each other) for the start, I personally think > it a useful idea to use (people's) antra start dates to home in on what is a > correct value of ayanamsa. > > It may come across as splitting hairs, but I found 5 of the s/wares are > giving (with my birth-time) between the 17th and 21st Feb, whereas 2 others > are around the 13th to 15th. Zeroing in (as much as one can) - remember, > whether my birth time is correct to the minute or not, I am still using the > SAME birthtime for ALL the softwares, it may also be useful for the s/ware > developers out there to take note of the (albeit slight) differences. > > Sateesh. > > ======== > > - > " Manu Batura " <manubatura> > > Sunday, February 15, 2004 10:27 PM > Re: Antra start dates > > > : Dear Sateesh, > : > : It is actually all about the magnitude of error. A small change in > : birth time can throw dasha start dates by a large value since they > : critically depend of degree of Moon. That is the reason why we need > : to insist on getting correct birth times. > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release 13/02/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Dear Sateesh, This difference in dates i.e. start dates of antras might not be due to Ayanamsa. This might be due to slight error creeping in in calculating the nutation of moon. The degree of moon might be slightly different in each of those 5 softwares. Moons degrees determine the start of Vimshottari dasha as you know so that may give some few days difference in start date of dasha. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash , " Sateesh Batas " <makara@n...> wrote: > Dear Manu, > > That said, the point is - if several softwares are giving several dates > (granted, within a few days of each other) for the start, I personally think > it a useful idea to use (people's) antra start dates to home in on what is a > correct value of ayanamsa. > > It may come across as splitting hairs, but I found 5 of the s/wares are > giving (with my birth-time) between the 17th and 21st Feb, whereas 2 others > are around the 13th to 15th. Zeroing in (as much as one can) - remember, > whether my birth time is correct to the minute or not, I am still using the > SAME birthtime for ALL the softwares, it may also be useful for the s/ware > developers out there to take note of the (albeit slight) differences. > > Sateesh. > > ======== > > - > " Manu Batura " <manubatura> > > Sunday, February 15, 2004 10:27 PM > Re: Antra start dates > > > : Dear Sateesh, > : > : It is actually all about the magnitude of error. A small change in > : birth time can throw dasha start dates by a large value since they > : critically depend of degree of Moon. That is the reason why we need > : to insist on getting correct birth times. > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release 13/02/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Dear Graham, Thanks :-) - yes, GJ does have the option of setting several "junctions" of dates for the ayanamsa, to ensure it is updated and "on track" as much as possible. Interesting your comment about the GJ Moon values... Cheers - Sat. ======== - "Graham Fox" <fox.graham Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:33 PM Re: Antra start dates Some programs (Goravani, I think) have an option for fixing the ayanamsha for dates at regular intervals, and working from the nearest one, so the precession calculations never get too out of hand. That seems the best approach (but there's a slight problem with the moon in Goravani). ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release 13/02/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Dear Ash, That's a good point - thanks! Sat. ======== - " ashsam73 " <ashsam73 Monday, February 16, 2004 3:18 AM Re: Antra start dates : Dear Sateesh, : This difference in dates i.e. start dates of antras might not be due to Ayanamsa. This might be due to slight error creeping in in calculating the nutation of moon. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release 13/02/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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