Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Group, I have written this post on another group, so am forwarding it here as it might help members. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Ash Saturday December 15, 2007 6:04 PM sohamsa ; Cc: ' Dikshit' RE: Re: Re: To Ashji Dear Goel, My replies below yours in blue. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Gopal Goel Saturday December 15, 2007 7:58 AM Cc: sohamsa; Dikshit Re: Re: Re: To Ashji Dear Ash, It is very easy to differ but really it is difficult to reconcile different aspects which ,on the face of it are at variance. Ash : Agreed. This is basic and fundamental principle that Upchaya places gives material growth.This brings two aspects in focus: Ash : I do not agree that the basic and fundamental principle of Upachaya place gives material growth. Upachaya sthan is the house of growth, heap and prosperity and not just in material world. 1. Malefics placed in 3H and 6H removes obstacles and give material prosperity. If they are powerful in shadvarga, vimsopaka and Astakavarga bala , they will prove a boom. KAS gives a powerful system to access this with the help of astavarga system. Ash : Malefics are said to be good in Upachaya Sthan. This is the basic, and as per KAS our very basic law explains that. The basic law of KAS is that when planets aspect the significator house i.e ABorC i.e. the Karak, phal and Phalit sthan or the 8th from the house under focus, the house under focus and the 5th from the house under focus so if we take 7th house as house under focus then if planets are aspecting 2nd, 7th or 11th then such planets cannot give result, but their powerful samdharmis will give. Now, Health and Death are 2 important factors that were considered in the old age. So if u study these planets, say Mars if its placed in 3rd house then it will aspect 6th house so Mars itself cannot give the result, if Mars is placed in 6th house then it will aspect 12th house who is 5th from 8th house so it can’t give death, Saturn placed in 6th house cannot give death as it will aspect 12th house, then Saturn placed in 11th house will aspect 1st house who is Karak for 1st house so it can’t give 6th house result, if Mars and Saturn placed in 10th house, is very good particularly if its with less than 4 bindus as written in your next point. From 10th hosue Mars will aspect 1st house who is Karak for 6th so it cant give 6th house result and Saturn will aspect 12th house so it can’t give result for death. So, natural malefics in upachaya sthan are said to be good. With regards to your other points about using Shadvarga, then in KAS we not only use Shadvarga but we use all 16 D charts and we find the power of each planet for all 12 houses in all 16 D charts. In D charts however we only add the power of A+B+C means 8th from a house, house under focus and 5th house so we take their power from SAV and add them. To find finer details we then use Nadis. For example for finding the intelligence of person we see the sectors of Saturn in Navmasa, Dreshkon and Trishansa. If more sectors of Saturn are there then such a person is very brilliant and has photographic memory. Navamsa is given equal importance as Rasi. With Vimshpak bal we do not need to calculate that as we get the power using Ashtakavarga. Actually KAS is an entire system so all aspects are considered this way or that. If a malefic is placed in 10H in strength , it is good but will give lot of passion. A powerful benefic in 10H will endowed the native with rare bliss and good character. Agreed. 10th house controls the 1st house and malefics in 10th house are good. If there is any planet in the 1st house with more than 4 bindus then such a mars or Saturn if with less than 4 bindus will become very very powerful. The other points are that Ma will aspect the 1st house and it can’t give the result of 6th house and Saturn if in 10th house can’t give the result of 8th house or death. Mars in 10th house if with less than 4 bindus will aspect and give power of 8-bindus of Mars recived in 10th house so if Mars has 2 bindus and is in 10th house of the chart then Mars will aspect 1st, 5th and 4th house with +6 bindus increase the power of these houses so 1st is individuality, 5th is unearned income and 4th is happiness, yes if Ra also aspects 5th house and if it’s a male chart then one has to be more careful during conception etc etc. ALL planets in 11th will give gains according to their nature and strengths. Ash : In SAV, all planets give power to their 11th house. For natural malefics in 11th house I have given the details above. Mars in 11th house will aspect 6th house and Sa in 11th house will aspect 8th house so can’t give poor health nor death. So Malefics in upachaya sthan are considered to be good. One other thing is the Generally these malefics have less than 4 bindus in their SAV as they have only 39 bindus. So now that they are in upachaya sthan they cant give 6th or 8th house results as they get disqualified and at the same time, they will have 3 aspects on 3 houses with +ve dristi increase the power of the house and any planet if residing in those houses. 2. When lord of a house occupies Upchaya places from it , the situation is not always that happy. Placement in 6H will give problems , more point in Astakvarga Ash : No, I do not agree with this point. For 6th house under focus then 1st house becomes the Karak. A person with good Personality and health (1st) can have good social status (6th) (it’s an analogy). So 1st lord in 6th house will give one very powerful personality. Infact the Karak for 6th will come and reside in 6th house. Now if Mars is 6th lord and if its with less than 4 bindus then there will be 2 fold things. 1st is that it will be malefic for 6th house but that the same time it will aspect and add points to the lagna compensating it. Such Now if there are more planets aspecting the 1st house with benefic dristi i.e. they are themselves with less than 4 bindus then even better. Infact 1st lord in 6th house with more than 4 bindus will become Karak for 11th house (success). For 6th house under focus, the primary house becomes 1st as Karak, 6th as house under focus and result or phalit sthan is 10th house. So 1st lord in 10th house means SELF has itself has good control over 1st, and 1st lord in 6th house means Karak itself has come to 6th house so the overall status of such a chart will go up. will only try to mitigate the evil , The placement in 10H IN STRENGTH WILL GENERATE RAJYOGA. 3. Thus placement of planets in upchaya from a reference house gives an information , but placement of the lord of reference house in each upchaya house from it is an entirely different matter. They need to be dealt separately. Your analysis by KAS system and my mail are not contradictory to each other , but we must view the fundamental principles in right prospective and manner. Ash : Yes, I agree with you, but that is for a trained eye and a person who has deep knowledge in Vedic Astrology who can see this such as yourself. For the rest, if I say that Saturn is the karak for intelligence then person or even Ju in lagna might cause divorce then it becomes unthinkable or such a Ju can give death more eagerly particularly if it has more than 4 bindus becomes unthinkable. As an example some people believe that Vedic , Puranic , Shiddhantic or modern astronomy are different. IN A WAY THEY ARE CORRECT ,BUT THIS INDICATES THE STORY OF CONTINUOUS PROGRESS IN THE FIELD OF ASTRONOMY, WHICH IS STILL CONTINUING. In the similar manner astrology is touching new heights. Ash : Its been very good discussing with you and Jyothi. Regards, G.K.GOEL Ph: 09350311433 Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR NEW DELHI-110 076 INDIA ----- Original Message ---- Ash <kas sohamsa ; Cc: atma prakash <atma5236 >; BHUSAN k <naxatra (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>; Chubb Phyllis <phyllis (AT) phyllischubb (DOT) com>; Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl (AT) mail (DOT) dk>; Kapoor S N <sn_kapoor (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>; Kedar M N <mnkedar (AT) radiffmail (DOT) com>; kiran.rama <kiran.rama (AT) (DOT) co.in>; Phyllis Chubb <phyllischubb (AT) shaw (DOT) ca>; Rao K N <k_n_rao (AT) rediffmail (DOT) com>; Rao K N <knrastro (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>; Dikshit Saturday, 15 December, 2007 2:03:17 AM RE: Re: Re: To Ashji Dear Goel and Lakshmi, I beg to differ on some points and some points I agree with. Here the question was 7th lord in 12th house. So 7th lord in 12th house of the chart means its in a powerful primary upachaya sthan. That will enhance the results of 7th house. Upachaya sthan means the house of growth, heap and prosperity. So 7th lord in 12th, 9th, 4th and 5th house would be good for 7th house results. 7th lord in 6th house would not auger good for 7th house results. Now for divorce, there must be some yogs present. So if such yogs are present so if such yogs are present then there are chances of divorce, for example say lagna and 7th lords are in 6:8 or mo and 7th lord or sun and 7th, ve and 7th lords and for females in addition we check mars and 7th lords. So such things we check separately. Now, I repeat again that Timing of event and Quality of event are 2 different things. So Karak and its status will control the quality or result. Now if 2nd house is spoilt or Ve or 2nd lord of chart then there might be multiple marriages or marriages might not last or in extreme cases there it might be denied. I shall reply revert to Jyoti’s mail separately. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro. ca sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@ . com] On Behalf Of Gopal Goel Friday December 14, 2007 5:00 AM ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com Cc: atma prakash; BHUSAN k; Chubb Phyllis; Finn Wandahl; Kapoor S N; Kedar M N; kiran.rama; Phyllis Chubb; Rao K N; Rao K N; sohamsa; vedic_astrology_ classes Dikshit Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: To Ashji Dear Ash and Lakshmii ji, 1. The rules of placement of planet in a house are different 2 The planet's functional nature to act under go a change by becoming a lord of a house 3 Strength of planet - viz Shadbala , Vimshopka and Astak varga bala are very important to access the effects 4. The depositor of a planet , if strongly placed and in auspicious influence, alters even bad effects of a bad placement 5. Aspect and of association or Sambandha with other planets Let us take the placement of 7L in 12h. 3rd house represents copulation being represented sign Gemini , naturally 12th being 10th from third is BED pleasure . 7 th being house of SEXUAL instinct , if 7th lord is placed in 12th , it gives deception in marriage. Ash : 7th lord in 12th means 7th house lord is in primary upachaya sthan.(6th and 10th are primary and 3rd and 11th are secondary upachaya). So Karak for 12th house itself is in 12th house. Even Natural 7th lord i.e Venus gets exalted in 12th house of Pisces. So that is good for 7th house significance. The results of 7th house are enhanced and also for dual lord ship even the 2nd house ruled by the same planet will get enhanced by being placed in 12th house. Karak sthan is 2nd house – As per old tradition, marriages were initiated by families. Phal sthan is 7th – House under focus Phalit Sthan is 11th – life long friend gained in the form of wife. Karak is 6th house so legally related. 4th and 12th house are samdudhi sthan. – These are in upachaya from Karak i.e. 2nd and Phal sthan. i.e. 3rd from 2nd and 10th from 7th and 12th house is 6th from 7th and 11th from 2nd. 11th house is 10th from 2nd so primary upachaya sthan from 2nd and 7th house is 6th from Karak sthan i.e 2nd house. 12th house is also moksh sthan and as per KAS we define it as pleasures in this life time itself and in addition 12th house it is a Moksha sthan and on Spiritual Plane. So the ultimate enjoyment, and I would say that the cheapest form would be physical pleasures of 12th house. Infact 12th house is also 5th from 8th i.e. its 10th from 3rd house and 3rd is the karak for death. So making a long story short, if 7th lord is in 12th house then its in upachaya sthan, and if that is bad for 7th house then there is no meaning of upachaya or the meaning of upachaya is destroyed. Kindly remember 7th lord can never be lord of Trikona houses ( 1st , 5th and 9th) , as such never acts as Subha graha by nature ( accept in the case it is in sambandha with a trine lord). A planet , when it is not Subha by functional nature , such planets generate lot of passion. Important Note : Pisces sign and bhava Karka also play significant role in protecting the significance of 12th house . The bhava Karka of 12th house are as under: Main Karka : Saturn- expenses , cause of loss , punishment Secondary Karkas : Moon - recovery from disease, sleep comfort Venus - bed comforts, overseas journey Rahu-foreign residence or travel, bondage,imprisonmen t,misfortune, bad habits,secret enemies Jupiter- donations,heaven Ketu- salvation Regards, G.K.GOEL Ph: 09350311433 Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR NEW DELHI-110 076 INDIA ----- Original Message ---- jyothi_b_lakshmi <jyothi_b_lakshmi@ .co. in> ancient_indian_ astrology Friday, 14 December, 2007 11:46:25 AM [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: To Ashji Dear Ash, Well, I got your point. But what you say is against what I have known so far. As per what I know, 12 is a Dusthana and so is its lord. I would like to know what you say of 12th lord, because you say 12th is the most auspicious house. Is the 12th lord also auspicious or is it only the 12th house? In my observation, what you said doesnt seem to fit well. For example, I have seen a number of divorce charts. In all of them one common placement that I have noticed is 7th lord in 12th. (There can be other factors as well, but let us not consider that now). So according to what you say, the person should enjoy a good conjugal life as the 7th house results must be enhanced. Right? Why is it not happening? (I hope you wont bring the car analogy of 4th house here; Nobody really wishes to have an extra marital affair, I guess:), unless other wise forced by situation.) I have also seen my cousins chart who is Gemini Asc with Moon exalted in 12th. As 2nd stands for eyes, its results must be enhanced. But her vision is very poor and without her high power lens she cannot see anything. I am not trying to contradict you, but only that I am not able to find the KAS theory true with respect to the charts I know. I can agree if you say that the results of the house owned by the planet in 12th will be negatively enhanced or affected. At least that is what I have seen. Regards, Jyothi ancient_indian_ astrology, " Ash " <kas wrote: > > Dear Jyothi, > > > > Please refer to me as Ash. > > > > 12th house of a chart and 12th from a house are different. > > > > So 12th from 3rd house would be 2nd house and 12th house of the chart is the > 12th house which is fixed. > > > > > > So 12th house of a chart is the most auspicious house and any planets placed > in the 12th house would enhance the house ruled by them. > > > > Lets take an example of Aries lagna and let us assume Moon is placed in the > 12th house in pisces. So this would mean that the RESULTS of 4th house > would be enhanced. > > > > Yes, before I proceed any further let me emphasize that I distinguish > Quality of an event from Timing of Event. These are 2 different things. > > > > Quality of an event is controlled by the Status of the Karak planet. > > > > For example, if 2nd house is spoilt (8th from any house is the karak sthan > and natural karak is from kal purush chart) so if the karak is spoilt then > the RESULTS of 7th house will be spoilt and as per VA we generally say that > if Venus (natural 2nd lord if its spoilt then persons marital life will be > spoilt). > > > > So now, here when I am saying that a planet is placed in 12th house of the > chart, then the house ruled by that planet will get enhanced. As an > analogy, to explain the difference between timing of event and quality, I > can say is that, assume a person's 4th house (timing of event) is not > powerful means he himself can't even own a car or a house but at the same > time but 4th lord is in 12th means the quality is enhanced, so such a person > might enjoy a house and a car maybe not owned by him by it might be given by > his company where he or she is working or maybe friends etc. So one is > quality and the other is timing of event. This is just an analogy. > > > > > > So once we are clear with what I am trying to explain, I will answer your > questions below. > > > > 1) 10th lord in 9th house means 10th house is loosing status. 10th is > karak for 3rd house i.e. Parakram, the reason we find the Career of a person > from 10th house from lagna sun and moon. So now this 10th lord is in 9th so > its in 12th house from 10th, so its loosing status but its in 9th house a > Kona. 10th is physical plane and 9th is a spiritual plane. So here such a > person depends more on dharam, faith, luck etc. > > 2) The 9th lord when it goes in 10th house so that means that 9th lord > is in its dhan sthan, but the 10th house is getting spoilt as 12th from > B=10th lord is now resident in 10th house. So such a person is more towards > dharm, more spiritual. 10th house means karma. > > 3) Now taking it one step ahead. 10th lord is in 9th house and now it > means that it is in 10th house from 12th the house of enjoyment and > pleasures so if its with more power i.e more than 4 bindus which means that > itself and 7 planets are making a favorable yog so it will trigger 12th > house and 4th house both are 2 of moksh triplicity. Means during the antra > of such a planet the person will be more lucky, and might have to put in > less effort. > > 4) 9th house is opposite of 3rd house. 3rd house is that of effort and > parakram and 9th is opposite of that so u say the house where u get things > without putting in effort or in other words, lucky, fortunate. Both are on > spiritual planes but 3rd is kama and 9th is dharma trikon. > > > > Yes, u are right, we say that 10th lord in 9th and 9th lord in 10th is > dharma karma adipati yoga and a Raj Yog. > > > > Raj yog means one can have good status, have subordinates, have good > authority. > > > > Now a spiritual person also might have lots of bhakts, and the CEO of a > large company also might have lots of subordinates. Both have good > authority but there is a difference :-). > > > > So a planet in 12th house from the house it owns so that house looses status > and a planet when it is in 12TH HOUSE OFA CHART means the results ruled by > that planet is enhanced. > > > > Actually, as per VA, 8th lord in 12th, 6th lord in 12th and 3rd lord in 12th > are called VRY isn't it. So here if 6th lord goes in 12th then 6th house is > enhanced, 8th lord goes in 12th then 8th house is enhanced and 3rd lord goes > in 12th then 3rd house is enhanced, actually this is applicable to all > houses. > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. ca> http://www.ashtro. ca > > _____ > > ancient_indian_ astrology > [ancient_indian_ astrology] On Behalf Of > jyothi_b_lakshmi > Wednesday December 12, 2007 11:51 PM > ancient_indian_ astrology > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: To Ashji > > > > Dear Ashji, > > I was going through the articles posted in your web site. This is > what I understood from one of the articles. > (http://www3. > <http://www3. telus.net/ public/elijahn/ Pages/TimingOfMa rriage.htm> > telus.net/public/ elijahn/Pages/ TimingOfMarriage .htm) > > If the lord of bhava X is posited in the 12th sign from X, then the > bhava X gets spoilt. Similarly, if a bhava lord is posited in the > 2nd sign from the bhava, then that 2nd bhava gets spoilt (because > 12th lord from it is posited there). > > If this is the case as per KAS, could you please tell me, how you > look at 10th lord posited in 9th and 9th lord posited in 10th > (exchange)? As per KAS, both the bhavas must get spoilt and the > native must have a miserable life (unfortunate, jobless?). But this > exchange as far as I know, gives dharma karmadhipa yoga, which is a > Raja Yoga. Please let me know your comments. > > Also this seems contradictory to what you wrote in the below > mail. " As per KAS, 12th house is considered the most auspicious > house and any planet that goes in 12th house then the house ruled by > them gets enhanced. " > > If the 12th lord from Lagna is considered auspicious, why can't the > 12th lord from a bhava be auspicious to that bhava? > > I hope I didnt go wrong in my understanding. > > Regards, > Jyothi > > ancient_indian_ <ancient_ indian_astrology % 40. com> > astrology@grou ps.com, " Ash " <kas@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Kiran and Goel, > > > > > > > > I would also like to share my view. > > > > > > > > 3rd lord in 8th house would mean that 3rd lord has gone into its > primary > > upachaya sthan. (6th and 10th are primary upachaya and 3rd and > 11th are > > secondary). So as Karak for 8th house (3rd is 8th from 3rd) is > enhanced. > > > > > > > > 3rd lord I 12th house can be viewed in 2 fold manner. As per > KAS, 12th > > house is considered the most auspicious house and any planet that > goes in > > 12th house then the house ruled by them gets enhanced. This is > for quality. > > So 3rd lord in 12th house would mean that the RESULTS i.e. quality > of 3rd > > house is enhanced. > > > > > > > > Second part is that 3rd lord goes in the 10th house from 3rd i.e. > in primary > > upachaya sthan. So again it goes into the house of Authority from > 3rd and > > since its upachaya sthan then the meaning is growth, prosperity > heap. > > > > > > > > Now 3rd lord in 6th house, so here for 6th house under focus so > say u are > > timing event for Job or Authority, then for 10th house, 3rd house > becomes > > primary upachaya and for 6th house under focus i.e. say u are > timing job > > then 3rd house becomes 10th from 6th. > > > > > > > > Regarding aspects, a benefic planet i.e. a planet with more than 4 > bindu (it > > can be mars and Saturn as well - as long as it has more than 4 > bindus means > > its benefic) so such a planet will have equal and opposite aspect > so, say if > > Jupiter has +5 bindus then its aspect will be with -5 on 7th, 5th > and 9th > > house. > > > > > > > > So Jupiter will do good for the house it is placed it but at the > cost of 3 > > other house. > > > > > > > > Similarly, Mars and Saturn if they are with less than 4 bindus > (which is > > generally the case as Ma and Sa have only 39 bindus each in SAV), > so they > > will be malefic for the house they are placed in but their aspects > will be > > beneficial on 3 other house. > > > > > > > > A natural malefic in 6th house if it is there and with more than 4 > bindus > > then its aspect will be beneific for quality but for timing we > consider it > > with equal and opposite so say if Mars is 6th lord and in 6th > house with say > > 5 bindus then for timing of event you consider the aspect to be > with -5 on > > 9th, 12th and 1st house but for quality, you double the points and > its > > aspect will enhance the quality of the house it aspects. > > > > > > > > For your 3rd point, 6th lord in 6th, 8th lord in 8th and 12th lord > in 12th > > one must also consider the dual lord ships of the planets. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro. ca> ca> http://www.ashtro. > <http://www.ashtro. ca> ca > > > > _____ > > > > ancient_indian_ <ancient_ indian_astrology % 40. com> > astrology@grou ps.com > > [ancient_ indian_ > <ancient_ indian_astrology %40. com> > astrology@grou ps.com] On Behalf Of > Gopal Goel > > Wednesday December 12, 2007 4:53 AM > > ancient_indian_ <ancient_ indian_astrology % 40. com> > astrology@grou ps.com; kiran.rama > > Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] To Sreenadhji: > > > > > > > > dear Kiranji, > > > > I may like to share my views on the queries raised by you : > > > > 1. Phaldeepica ch 6 gives nice indication about placement of house > lords in > > various houses.. Houses 1,2,4,5,7,9, 10,and 11 are good houses. > > > > If their lords are placed in these houses , they yield good > results. > > > > Houses 3,6,8,and 12 are in bad category. If 3rd lord will be > placed in 8th > > house, will yield to bad results.The native will have thievish > tendencies, > > may be punished by authorities, will serve others for his > livelihood. He > > becomes the cause of his own death. These results will not apply > to Virgo > > and PISCES ascendants. > > > > The native of Scorpio ascendant may have inborn criminal > tendencies , yet he > > will hide himself. Please remember , pada of 3rd house will fall > in Lagna. > > > > Malefic 3L in 8th will give more problems. > > > > 2.Malefic if occupying or aspecting will obstruct the > signification of the > > house in its period , provided it is not Vargottama , in > own ,exaltation or > > friendly signs. > > > > House lord if well placed and strong will try to reduce the impact > of > > malefic association to the house.House Karka 's strength will also > protect > > the house. > > > > Kindly study Ch -10 of Jatak deshmarg by Somayaji. > > > > 3. 6 ,8 and 12 houses are negative houses , and if their lords are > placed in > > these houses , some negative results will also come to pass. > > > > Parasara says, " If 6L IN 6TH ,The native will have enmity with his > own > > kinsmen and friendship with others,mediocre wealth, sound health. > > > > Retrograde planets give chronic diseases.A weak 8L in 8th will not > be good > > for longevity, and its actions will bring dishonour to him, he > will be in > > habit to blame others. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > G.K.GOEL > > Ph: 09350311433 > > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR > > NEW DELHI-110 076 > > INDIA > > > > > > > > > > Kiran R <kiran.rama@ > > > ancient_indian_ <ancient_ indian_astrology % 40. com> > astrology@grou ps.com > > Wednesday, 12 December, 2007 10:24:46 AM > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] To Sreenadhji: > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > > > I have a few doubts and I want to bridge my gaps in understanding > on the > > same: > > Please help me in doing so: > > > > 1) If a house lord is in dustana: Say the 3rd lord is in the 8th > house, Will > > it cause obstructions to the significations of the 3H only in the > period of > > the 3rd lord or in the period of 8th lord also? > > > > 2) Will aspect/occupation of a house by malefic cause obstruction > to the > > significations of the house only during the period of the malefic > or during > > periods of the house lord also? > > > > 3) If a dustana lord is in his own house (e.g: 8th lord in 8th, > 6th lord in > > 6th, 12th lord in 12th), does it mean that both good and bad > significations > > of the house will be amplified. e.g: Will 8th lord in 8th house > cause > > increased longevity, large debts, many diseases and poverty? > > Or is it that house lord in his own house will amplify only good > things of > > the house? > > > > Thanks > > Kiran > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog > wrote: > > > > Dear Venkittaraman ji, > > That was a beutiful, informative mail. Thanks. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > ancient_indian_ <ancient_ indian_astrology % > 40. com> > > astrology, Venkataraman Hari > > <venkataraman_ hari@> wrote: > > > > > Dear Seenadhji, > > > Namaskaram. Your are obsalutely correct that Apa: is > > not mere water.Apa: is also not equilent to Jala or Naara.But in > this > > sloka. in this particular referance the Narayana sabda, the world > > Naara refers only to Apa in its full sense.i.e. Apo va idagum > Sarvam, > > Apa: plunanthu Prithvi, Vishva Bhootani Apa:, Prano va Apa: The > > inherant power in the water which is one in Pancha Bhootas. Who > > sleeps on the water is not somebody sleepin over it :but the > inherent > > power or Divinity in it. Apo vai sarva Devata: All the Devatas are > > in the water.It is a consolidated force capable of Creation, > > Sustinance and destruction. When we worshipl water in pot in our > > vaidic poojas who ever may be the deity we proficiate the > potential > > Primordial power/ Divinity is worshiped in that form and name. The > > same is with Agni also. That is why the Veda says " YoApam Pushpam > > Veda pushpavan Prajavan Pasuman Bhavati " One who realises that > > the water is the cretive energy-primordial force for > > > creation then he becomes the person of blossemed or realised, > man > > attainments, man of prosperity i.e. contentment. Primordial Ocean , > > the Milky Ocean represents Suddha Sathva Energy. Puranas gives the > > entire thing in a beautiful descrilption Sriman Narayan with > Mother > > Lakshmi,daughter o;f the ocean, sleeps on Adi Sesha the Primordial > > Prana Shakti. > > > With regards, > > > > > Hari Venkataraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@ > wrote: > > > Dear Venkataraman ji, > > > ==> > > > " Apo Naara Iti Prokta Apovai Narasoonavah: Tayatasyayanan > Poorvam > > Tena Naryana Smritih: Apa means Water. > > > <== > > > Apa is NOT water - if it was mere water they would have used the > > word 'Jala' or some other synonym for water, but will not resort > to > > the consistent use of the word 'Apa'. In a better way - 'Apa' > > means 'Primordial ocean' or the 'stuff of primordial occean' (or > call > > it higgs ocean in modern terms). It is the ocean/water from which > > everything sprouts - i.e. life, cosmic spears, and the universe > > itself. 'Apa' and ' Nara ' are interchangeable words - meaning the > > same, pointing to the same 'primordial occean'. > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ <ancient_ indian_astrology % > 40. com> > > astrology, Venkataraman Hari > > <venkataraman_ hari@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear sir, > > > > You are quite correct in a way. Wben we read or try to > understand > > Vedic hims we should not confuse ourselves with Puranic Stores. > Veda > > fully speaks in a cosmic form. To understand we require an > > extraordinary understanding power and unbiased views and open > mind. > > Where ever Narayana Sabda or the name of the Vishnu is mentioned > > there the All pervading aspect of Brahman or Supreme Power is > > described..Vyapakat v at Vishnu ; " Again it is said " Apo Naara Iti > > Prokta Apovai Narasoonavah: Tayatasyayanan Poorvam Tena Naryana > > Smritih: Apa means Water. From water every thing sprouts.. Who is > just > > sleeping on it is Narayana. Water is energising Power-Energy. > > Agnerapa: from fire the water came- says the Upanishad. But Agni > > evaporate Water and Water subsides Agni. Both are the different > forms > > of all pervading energy. Veda says Agna Vishno Sajoshadema > Vardandtu > > magirah: Here Agni denotes Sri Rudra and Rudra and Vlishnu are > both > > identical just like two sides of a coin. Both are > > > > all pervading and intruding in to every atom of this Srishti. > > That is why Vishnu is considered on of the Ekadasa/Eleven forms of > > Sri Rudra. and Rudra is an another aspect of All pervading Sri > > Vishnu. Veda uses these names when ever and where ever these inner > > aspects of these name are useful to explain things. This is very > > difficult to understand and explain clearly. I fear whether I > could > > explain or convey what I am able to understand. When you go to > > Puranas , I am not talking about Itihasas, they attribute forms > and > > qualities to various names in the Vedas just to make it > interesting > > and convey a particular ;message to common man. We should not > concuss > > ourselves.This is my humble opini;on. With regards. > > > > > > > > Hari Venkataraman > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dollarmoni sriram.nayak@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Rashmikantji, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my longish mail.IMHO please desist from asking > > questions > > > > that have origin in veda/puranas/ shastras to an astrology > group. > > The > > > > reason I am saying that is, though study/ knowledge of > puranas/ > > > > ithihasas do help an astrologer to decipher the hidden > meanings > > of > > > > planetary positions, their stastric study is mostly > inadequate. > > The > > > > replies to your mail from many is a clear indicator and I have > > seen > > > > this happening in all astrology groups. > > > > > > > > As wrong knowledge is being propogated by many, and guesses > are > > used > > > > on stastric knowledge, I thought of just posting a couple of > > > > indicators on this matter based on similar ones that have > > happened > > > > before. > > > > All schools place Vedas above Puranas, itihAsa and other > > Vedangas. > > > > This is because Vedas are apaurusheya. In case of any conflict > > > > between the Vedas and any other text, the former are to be > taken > > and > > > > others,for, being paurusheya (let the author be anybody; > buddha, > > > > krishna, chaitanya), are to be discarded. I hope none > disagrees > > here. > > > > > > > > Vedas do talk of Vishnu's supremacy.Ofcourse, the first line > from > > > > Mahopanishad is there: > > > > eko nArayaNa AsInna brahmA neshAno nAgnIshomau neme > > > > dyAvapR^ithivI | This clearly says that it is Lord Narayana > who > > > > existed at that point of time, when there was niether Brahma > nor > > > > Shiva, Agni, Chandra, these heavens and earth. > > > > > > > > The very appearance of other deities being praised is also not > a > > > > hindrance; other Gods are indeed to be worshipped for various > > other > > > > benefits. For example,Shiva is the abhimAni-devatA for manas > > (mind); > > > > unless the kind Lord of Uma showers his benefience, there is > not > > one > > > > chance that a man will be able to convert his bitterest enemy > to > > his > > > > best friend. However, these devatAs, be it Shiva or Indra or > Agni > > or > > > > Pushan, are > > > > all substitutes to Vishnu, who is Brahman. > > > > > > > > Consider this from RgVeda (7th Mandala): > > > > asya devasya mILhuSo vayA viShNoreShasya prabhR^ithe havirbhiH > | > > > > vide hi rudro rudriyaM mahitvaM yAsiSTaM vartirashvinAvirAva > t.h || > > > > > > > > This one clearly says that Rudra got his 'rudratva' > > > > from Vishnu. > > > > So, why not conclude that it is Narayana whose > > > > different forms are Brahma, Shiva, Agni, Surya etc, > > > > just like Rama and Krishna are? The reason is again in > > > > the scriptures. These other Gods are said to be the control, > are > > > > said to be born and even die, are said to be afraid of Brahman > > (R.V > > > > 2.38.9, Taittiriya Upanishad 2-8). It is plain common sense > that > > one > > > > is not afraid of oneself. It cannot be even that one form is > > > > ignorant of other (how can that be, if they are all 'pUrNa' > > brahman, > > > > that is praised in the muNDakopanishat as 'sarvaj~naH' > > omniscient?) . > > > > Consider kAThaka araNyaka 206. This relates to Indra beheading > > > > Rudra ('etadrudrasya dhanuH | rudrasyatveva dhanurArtniH shira > > > > utpipeSha | sa pravargyo.abhavat. h').. This appears in > Taiitariya > > > > Aranyaka also. All these deities are said to be under the > control > > of > > > > ambhraNI ( Lakshmi devi) , the seer of ambhraNI sUkta (some > call > > it > > > > devI sUkta): ahaM rudrebhir vasubhir .... yaM kAmaye taM ugraM > > > > kR^iNomi taM brahmANaM taM R^iShiM taM sumedhaM. > > > > Here, Lakshmi says that whomsoever she pleases, will be made > > Rudra, > > > > Brahma, a sage or a wiseman. She proclaims that she had given > the > > > > bow to Rudra to cut off one of the five heads of Brahma (for > > > > chanting a Vedic verse wrongly): ahaM rudrAya dhanurAtanomi > etc.. > > > > Later, the same lady says that thesource of her powers is the > > Being > > > > on the ocean (mama yoni apsu antaH samudre) > > > > > > > > Lakshmi is ajanma. She is a nitya chetana. Brahma is born of > Lord > > > > Padmanabha and saraswati is Kriti-Pradyumnas ( another form of > > > > Lakshmi-Narayana) daughter and is Brahmas wife. ( referred in > > puranas > > > > as chaturavadana rani). > > > > > > > > I saw some quote from Devi Bhagavata provided in another mail. > > That > > > > has to be discarded as the quote goes agains vedic injunctions > > and > > > > is also from the " rajasa " purana as mentioned by Shri > Vedavyasa > > > > himself, the 'organiser of vedas " > > > > > > > > I trust this clarifies the " origins " of Lakshmi and Saraswati. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > sriram nayak > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ > > <ancient_ indian_astrology %40. com> astrology@ > . > > com, rashmi patel > > > > rashmihpatel@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE PARENTS NAME OF LAXMIJI & > > SARASWATIJI > > > > > I HAD GUEST IN MY HOUSE FROM CALCUTTA SAYING THEY ARE > DAUGHTERS > > OF > > > > SHIV-PARVATI, MEANING SISTERS OF GANESH & KARTIK. > > > > > PLEASE TELL ME > > > > > > > > > > THANKS > > > > > RASHMIKANT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi@ > > > > > ancient_indian_ > > <ancient_ indian_astrology %40. com> astrology@ > . > > com > > > > > Saturday, December 8, 2007 7:41:37 AM > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Time - an illusion > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree with you. Truth needs no " ism " for its > > existence. > > > > Be > > > > > it Shavism or Vaishnavism or any other ism. Absolute reality > is > > > > the > > > > > same in all religions, be it Islam, Hinduism or > Christianity. > > This > > > > is > > > > > a fact everybody knows. One need not be a pandit in history > or > > > > > scriptures to know all these. If anybody says their " ism " is > > the > > > > only > > > > > one way to realise GOD, then they havent understood > their " ism " > > > > > properly. > > > > > > > > > > Experiencing the absolute is not a monopoly of any specific > > sect.. > > > > If > > > > > it was, we wouldnt have had so many enlightened ones in this > > world > > > > > that too from different religions and sects. St.Tresa of > Avila , > > > > > Budha, Sufi saints are all examples. Tryin > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here > > > <http://in.rd. > <http://in.rd. / tagline_webmesse nger_5/*http: /in..messenger. y> > /tagline_ webmessenger_ 5/*http:/ in..messenger. y > ahoo.co > > m/webmessengerpromo .php> to know how. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online. > Click > > > <http://in.rd. > <http://in.rd. / tagline_webmesse nger_4/*http: /in.messenger. ya> > /tagline_ webmessenger_ 4/*http:/ in.messenger. ya > hoo.com > > /webmessengerpromo. php> here. > > > Dear ASH DELETE button is history. Unlimited mail storage is just a click away. Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here to know how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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