Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear SPK, I still recall once Ash has explained this in past which i am reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember amil number. Hope this will help u understand a little. "Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to misplay with money. Now 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th house is unearned wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd house, such persons must not go for easy money such as speculation or taking bribes like that to make a quick buck. Study some charts, in due course of time, keeping this law in mind. Now if planet is there with more than 4 bindus then its aspect on 8th house will be malefic subject to condition. In such a case ,there are 2 sides of the coin, 1st is the basics i.e. one is for timing of event and the other is quality. Now say if 1st lord is in 2nd with more bindus, then it means LoE for 8th house, is in 2nd house means wealth, so such a person might make a lot of money (timing of event) if the native tries to speculate but at the same time, he might loose it all in 2nd lords antra or SD to 2nd lord. Its getting hard for me as so many scenarios are flashing in my mind, and those are just following the basics. So best way is to first make the basics strong and then such things will automatically come to you Jagdish. But one thing, keep such charts in mind. Now u asked about bribes, then do not think like that. In general one should not misplay with money, or others money or go for easy speculation or making a quick buck if u know " Regards Anup SPK <aquaris_rising wrote: Dear Ash,How is 2nd and 11th house treated in KAS?2nd is Dhana sthaan and 11th is labha sthaan.I am looking at a horoscope that has shani-rahu dasharunning and next dasha will be shani-guru. Guru hashigh points in a ll houses except 8th and 11th.However has over 30 points in WS for 2nd house.Guru is also 2nd and 11th lord ( Kumbha lagna). Intraditonal VA, 11th lord is considered malefic. Theguru in the horoscope is in the 12 th house in KAS butlate degrres of Sagi with Lahiri in 11th house. Guruis with moon the sixth lord in navansha.The question pertains to buying/investment etc. FromVA standpoint guru antara will not be good. From KASstandpoint also dasha of 2nd lord should be cause forworries and in my opinion the investment should beavoided.Question is how does KAS treat 2nd and 11th house fromstandpoint of gains/money. Guru has hogh points for5th so if one treats this a speculation it can bepercieved as good, but I beleive 2nd lordship of gurushould trump.If any of the learned members want to comment on thisthe data is 17 Mar 1937, 5:28 AM 73 E51, 18N 31ThanksThe data is --- "Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) ca" <kas wrote:________Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Thanks Anup, The question was not about bribes. The real question is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat 11th house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is considered malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the person has good points for Guru in this case for 2nd huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens in this case also 8th house). How will the antara traspire? Thanks Satish --- " Anup. M " <dalh_1 wrote: > Dear SPK, > > > I still recall once Ash has explained this in past > which i am > reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember > amil number. > Hope this will help u understand a little. > > > " Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to > misplay with money. Now > 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th > house is unearned > wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd > house, such persons > must not go for easy money such as speculation or > taking bribes like > that to make a quick buck. > Study some charts, in due course of time, keeping > this law in mind. > > Now if planet is there with more than 4 bindus then > its aspect on 8th > house will be malefic subject to condition. In such > a case ,there are > 2 sides of the coin, 1st is the basics i.e. one is > for timing of event > and the other is quality. > Now say if 1st lord is in 2nd with more bindus, > then it means LoE for > 8th house, is in 2nd house means wealth, so such a > person might make a > lot of money (timing of event) if the native tries > to speculate but at > the same time, he might loose it all in 2nd lords > antra or SD to 2nd > lord. > > Its getting hard for me as so many scenarios are > flashing in my mind, > and those are just following the basics. So best > way is to first make > the basics strong and then such things will > automatically come to you > Jagdish. > > But one thing, keep such charts in mind. > > Now u asked about bribes, then do not think like > that. In general one > should not misplay with money, or others money or > go for easy > speculation or making a quick buck if u know " > > > Regards > Anup > > > > > > > > > > > SPK <aquaris_rising wrote: > Dear Ash, > > How is 2nd and 11th house treated in KAS? > > 2nd is Dhana sthaan and 11th is labha sthaan. > > I am looking at a horoscope that has shani-rahu > dasha > running and next dasha will be shani-guru. Guru has > high points in a ll houses except 8th and 11th. > However has over 30 points in WS for 2nd house. > > Guru is also 2nd and 11th lord ( Kumbha lagna). In > traditonal VA, 11th lord is considered malefic. The > guru in the horoscope is in the 12 th house in KAS > but > late degrres of Sagi with Lahiri in 11th house. Guru > is with moon the sixth lord in navansha. > > The question pertains to buying/investment etc. From > VA standpoint guru antara will not be good. From KAS > standpoint also dasha of 2nd lord should be cause > for > worries and in my opinion the investment should be > avoided. > > Question is how does KAS treat 2nd and 11th house > from > standpoint of gains/money. Guru has hogh points for > 5th so if one treats this a speculation it can be > percieved as good, but I beleive 2nd lordship of > guru > should trump. > > If any of the learned members want to comment on > this > > the data is 17 Mar 1937, 5:28 AM 73 E51, 18N 31 > > Thanks > > The data is > --- " Ash's Corner " <kas wrote: > > ________ > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > http://www./r/hs > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Mobile. Try it now. ______________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Satish, Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and is it for all events of life? Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered malefic for all the house for which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself, 7th, 2nd and 4th house results? If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also given that upachaya is the house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use vedic then u must also use all the parameters? KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to understand this basic as to why is 11th house considered malefic. Once we understand that then we can proceed, because the basics of KAS is based on upachaya and that is given in VA also. Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will be talking 2 different languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th house will be lost. So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha considered malefic and is it a blanket statement or are there any exceptions and if there are then what are they so we should cover it from all angles. I would also request Gopal to take part in this as he is also following traditional astrology so that way we can get to the root of it. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of SPK Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM Re: 2nd and 11th house Thanks Anup, The question was not about bribes. The real question is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat 11th house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is considered malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the person has good points for Guru in this case for 2nd huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens in this case also 8th house). How will the antara traspire? Thanks Satish --- " Anup. M " <dalh_1 > wrote: > Dear SPK, > > > I still recall once Ash has explained this in past > which i am > reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember > amil number. > Hope this will help u understand a little. > > > " Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to > misplay with money. Now > 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th > house is unearned > wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd > house, such persons > must not go for easy money such as speculation or > taking bribes like > that to make a quick buck. > Study some charts, in due course of time, keeping > this law in mind. > > Now if planet is there with more than 4 bindus then > its aspect on 8th > house will be malefic subject to condition. In such > a case ,there are > 2 sides of the coin, 1st is the basics i.e. one is > for timing of event > and the other is quality. > Now say if 1st lord is in 2nd with more bindus, > then it means LoE for > 8th house, is in 2nd house means wealth, so such a > person might make a > lot of money (timing of event) if the native tries > to speculate but at > the same time, he might loose it all in 2nd lords > antra or SD to 2nd > lord. > > Its getting hard for me as so many scenarios are > flashing in my mind, > and those are just following the basics. So best > way is to first make > the basics strong and then such things will > automatically come to you > Jagdish. > > But one thing, keep such charts in mind. > > Now u asked about bribes, then do not think like > that. In general one > should not misplay with money, or others money or > go for easy > speculation or making a quick buck if u know " > > > Regards > Anup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPK <aquaris_rising > wrote: > Dear Ash, > > How is 2nd and 11th house treated in KAS? > > 2nd is Dhana sthaan and 11th is labha sthaan. > > I am looking at a horoscope that has shani-rahu > dasha > running and next dasha will be shani-guru. Guru has > high points in a ll houses except 8th and 11th. > However has over 30 points in WS for 2nd house. > > Guru is also 2nd and 11th lord ( Kumbha lagna). In > traditonal VA, 11th lord is considered malefic. The > guru in the horoscope is in the 12 th house in KAS > but > late degrres of Sagi with Lahiri in 11th house. Guru > is with moon the sixth lord in navansha. > > The question pertains to buying/investment etc. From > VA standpoint guru antara will not be good. From KAS > standpoint also dasha of 2nd lord should be cause > for > worries and in my opinion the investment should be > avoided. > > Question is how does KAS treat 2nd and 11th house > from > standpoint of gains/money. Guru has hogh points for > 5th so if one treats this a speculation it can be > percieved as good, but I beleive 2nd lordship of > guru > should trump. > > If any of the learned members want to comment on > this > > the data is 17 Mar 1937, 5:28 AM 73 E51, 18N 31 > > Thanks > > The data is > --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) ca " <kas wrote: > > ________ > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > http://www./r/hs > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Mobile. Try it now. ________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Ash, The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can never be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords are malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord. The trines will be invariably friendly to lagna lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya lagna shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a malefic of the same order.) There other nuances but for most part this holds true. Thats why 11th lord is malefic. 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives results as per association. This is a s per Laghu Parashari. The trines especially 9th lord can never be unfriendly to the lagna lord so is benefic. Satish --- " Ash's Corner " <kas wrote: > Dear Satish, > > > > Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and is > it for all events of > life? > > > > Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered malefic > for all the house for > which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself, > 7th, 2nd and 4th house > results? > > > > If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also > given that upachaya is the > house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use > vedic then u must also > use all the parameters? > > > > KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to > understand this basic as > to why is 11th house considered malefic. > > > > Once we understand that then we can proceed, because > the basics of KAS is > based on upachaya and that is given in VA also. > > > > Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will > be talking 2 different > languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th house > will be lost. > > > > So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha > considered malefic and is it > a blanket statement or are there any exceptions and > if there are then what > are they so we should cover it from all angles. > > > > I would also request Gopal to take part in this as > he is also following > traditional astrology so that way we can get to the > root of it. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On > Behalf Of SPK > Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM > > Re: 2nd and 11th > house > > > > Thanks Anup, > > The question was not about bribes. The real question > is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat 11th > house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is > considered > malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but > gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd > lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the > person has good points for Guru in this case for 2nd > huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens > in > this case also 8th house). How will the antara > traspire? > > Thanks > > Satish > --- " Anup. M " <dalh_1 (AT) (DOT) > <dalh_1%40> com> wrote: > > > Dear SPK, > > > > > > I still recall once Ash has explained this in past > > which i am > > reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember > > amil number. > > Hope this will help u understand a little. > > > > > > " Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to > > misplay with money. Now > > 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th > > house is unearned > > wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd > > house, such persons > > must not go for easy money such as speculation or > > taking bribes like > > that to make a quick buck. > > Study some charts, in due course of time, keeping > > this law in mind. > > > > Now if planet is there with more than 4 bindus > then > > its aspect on 8th > > house will be malefic subject to condition. In > such > > a case ,there are > > 2 sides of the coin, 1st is the basics i.e. one is > > for timing of event > > and the other is quality. > > Now say if 1st lord is in 2nd with more bindus, > > then it means LoE for > > 8th house, is in 2nd house means wealth, so such a > > person might make a > > lot of money (timing of event) if the native tries > > to speculate but at > > the same time, he might loose it all in 2nd lords > > antra or SD to 2nd > > lord. > > > > Its getting hard for me as so many scenarios are > > flashing in my mind, > > and those are just following the basics. So best > > way is to first make > > the basics strong and then such things will > > automatically come to you > > Jagdish. > > > > But one thing, keep such charts in mind. > > > > Now u asked about bribes, then do not think like > > that. In general one > > should not misplay with money, or others money or > > go for easy > > speculation or making a quick buck if u know " > > > > > > Regards > > Anup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPK <aquaris_rising@ > <aquaris_rising%40> > > wrote: > > Dear Ash, > > > > How is 2nd and 11th house treated in KAS? > > > > 2nd is Dhana sthaan and 11th is labha sthaan. > > > > I am looking at a horoscope that has shani-rahu > > dasha > > running and next dasha will be shani-guru. Guru > has > > high points in a ll houses except 8th and 11th. > > However has over 30 points in WS for 2nd house. > > > > Guru is also 2nd and 11th lord ( Kumbha lagna). In > > traditonal VA, 11th lord is considered malefic. > The > > guru in the horoscope is in the 12 th house in KAS > > but > > late degrres of Sagi with Lahiri in 11th house. > Guru > > is with moon the sixth lord in navansha. > > > > The question pertains to buying/investment etc. > From > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Satish, In VA its given that upachaya is house house of growth. So for 1st house, 11th house is 11th so upachaya. So what to agree on? Is the definition of upachaya wrong or is it that approach that 11th lord is not friendly to 1st lord not correct? Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of SPK Saturday March 22, 2008 12:40 PM RE: 2nd and 11th house Dear Ash, The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can never be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords are malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord. The trines will be invariably friendly to lagna lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya lagna shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a malefic of the same order.) There other nuances but for most part this holds true. Thats why 11th lord is malefic. 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives results as per association. This is a s per Laghu Parashari. The trines especially 9th lord can never be unfriendly to the lagna lord so is benefic. Satish --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) ca " <kas wrote: > Dear Satish, > > > > Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and is > it for all events of > life? > > > > Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered malefic > for all the house for > which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself, > 7th, 2nd and 4th house > results? > > > > If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also > given that upachaya is the > house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use > vedic then u must also > use all the parameters? > > > > KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to > understand this basic as > to why is 11th house considered malefic. > > > > Once we understand that then we can proceed, because > the basics of KAS is > based on upachaya and that is given in VA also. > > > > Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will > be talking 2 different > languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th house > will be lost. > > > > So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha > considered malefic and is it > a blanket statement or are there any exceptions and > if there are then what > are they so we should cover it from all angles. > > > > I would also request Gopal to take part in this as > he is also following > traditional astrology so that way we can get to the > root of it. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On > Behalf Of SPK > Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM > > Re: 2nd and 11th > house > > > > Thanks Anup, > > The question was not about bribes. The real question > is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat 11th > house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is > considered > malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but > gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd > lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the > person has good points for Guru in this case for 2nd > huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens > in > this case also 8th house). How will the antara > traspire? > > Thanks > > Satish > --- " Anup. M " <dalh_1 (AT) (DOT) > <dalh_1%40> com> wrote: > > > Dear SPK, > > > > > > I still recall once Ash has explained this in past > > which i am > > reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember > > amil number. > > Hope this will help u understand a little. > > > > > > " Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to > > misplay with money. Now > > 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th > > house is unearned > > wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd > > house, such persons > > must not go for easy money such as speculation or > > taking bribes like > > that to make a quick buck. > > Study some charts, in due course of time, keeping > > this law in mind. > > > > Now if planet is there with more than 4 bindus > then > > its aspect on 8th > > house will be malefic subject to condition. In > such > > a case ,there are > > 2 sides of the coin, 1st is the basics i.e. one is > > for timing of event > > and the other is quality. > > Now say if 1st lord is in 2nd with more bindus, > > then it means LoE for > > 8th house, is in 2nd house means wealth, so such a > > person might make a > > lot of money (timing of event) if the native tries > > to speculate but at > > the same time, he might loose it all in 2nd lords > > antra or SD to 2nd > > lord. > > > > Its getting hard for me as so many scenarios are > > flashing in my mind, > > and those are just following the basics. So best > > way is to first make > > the basics strong and then such things will > > automatically come to you > > Jagdish. > > > > But one thing, keep such charts in mind. > > > > Now u asked about bribes, then do not think like > > that. In general one > > should not misplay with money, or others money or > > go for easy > > speculation or making a quick buck if u know " > > > > > > Regards > > Anup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPK <aquaris_rising@ > <aquaris_rising%40> > > wrote: > > Dear Ash, > > > > How is 2nd and 11th house treated in KAS? > > > > 2nd is Dhana sthaan and 11th is labha sthaan. > > > > I am looking at a horoscope that has shani-rahu > > dasha > > running and next dasha will be shani-guru. Guru > has > > high points in a ll houses except 8th and 11th. > > However has over 30 points in WS for 2nd house. > > > > Guru is also 2nd and 11th lord ( Kumbha lagna). In > > traditonal VA, 11th lord is considered malefic. > The > > guru in the horoscope is in the 12 th house in KAS > > but > > late degrres of Sagi with Lahiri in 11th house. > Guru > > is with moon the sixth lord in navansha. > > > > The question pertains to buying/investment etc. > From > === message truncated === ________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Satish and Ash, Sorry to jump in with my two cents... 11th lord is per standard VA certainly malefic, but mostly regarding longevity and yogas (specifically raja yogas in Laghu Parashari). However, yogas in KAS are taken care from another perspective. Since upachayas are cornestones of KAS, I would say for 11th that it is positive, Krushnaji mentioned somewhere (in archives) that 2nd lord antra has also positive sides/effects. all the best, Dadhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Ash, That is the crux of the question. 6th house is also upachaya house for 1st. But it is treated as house of disease/debt etc. in VA. 6th house in KAS is also teated as malefic. Yesit is more so for 7th as B, but in general also it is treated as bad and 6th lord is treated as malefic. Am I correct in this or is 6th lord bad only for matters of 7th house ? Thanks Satish --- " Ash's Corner " <kas wrote: > Dear Satish, > > > > In VA its given that upachaya is house house of > growth. So for 1st house, > 11th house is 11th so upachaya. > > > > So what to agree on? > > > > Is the definition of upachaya wrong or is it that > approach that 11th lord is > not friendly to 1st lord not correct? > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On > Behalf Of SPK > Saturday March 22, 2008 12:40 PM > > RE: 2nd and 11th > house > > > > Dear Ash, > > The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can > never > be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords > are > malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord. > The > trines will be invariably friendly to lagna > lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya lagna > shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a malefic > of the same order.) > > There other nuances but for most part this holds > true. > Thats why 11th lord is malefic. > > 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives > results as per association. This is a s per Laghu > Parashari. > > The trines especially 9th lord can never be > unfriendly > to the lagna lord so is benefic. > > Satish > --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) > <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca " <kas > <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote: > > > Dear Satish, > > > > > > > > Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and > is > > it for all events of > > life? > > > > > > > > Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered > malefic > > for all the house for > > which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself, > > 7th, 2nd and 4th house > > results? > > > > > > > > If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also > > given that upachaya is the > > house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use > > vedic then u must also > > use all the parameters? > > > > > > > > KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to > > understand this basic as > > to why is 11th house considered malefic. > > > > > > > > Once we understand that then we can proceed, > because > > the basics of KAS is > > based on upachaya and that is given in VA also. > > > > > > > > Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will > > be talking 2 different > > languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th > house > > will be lost. > > > > > > > > So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha > > considered malefic and is it > > a blanket statement or are there any exceptions > and > > if there are then what > > are they so we should cover it from all angles. > > > > > > > > I would also request Gopal to take part in this as > > he is also following > > traditional astrology so that way we can get to > the > > root of it. > > > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> > ca/> http://www.ashtro. > <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca > > > > _____ > > > > astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents > > [astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents ] > On > > Behalf Of SPK > > Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM > > astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents > > Re: 2nd and > 11th > > house > > > > > > > > Thanks Anup, > > > > The question was not about bribes. The real > question > > is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat > 11th > > house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is > > considered > > malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but > > gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd > > lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the > > person has good points for Guru in this case for > 2nd > > huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens > > in > > this case also 8th house). How will the antara > > traspire? > > > > Thanks > > > > Satish > > --- " Anup. M " <dalh_1 (AT) (DOT) > > <dalh_1%40> com> wrote: > > > > > Dear SPK, > > > > > > > > > I still recall once Ash has explained this in > past > > > which i am > > > reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember > > > amil number. > > > Hope this will help u understand a little. > > > > > > > > > " Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to > > > misplay with money. Now > > > 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th > > > house is unearned > > > wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd > > > house, such persons > > > must not go for easy money such as speculation > or > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Dadhi, I am very glad that u joined in and I also invite others to join in this discussion as personally I would like to get to the root of this. Yes, Dadhi you are correct, the upachaya theory is of prime importance in KAS. This upachaya has been given in each and every VA book. I do not think anyone will oppose that. This is the basics. 3, 6, 10 and 11th are special as upachaya and the meaning of that as per Sanskrit disctionary is Heap, Growth and Prosperity. So in my opinion this must be used by each and everyone using VA. Now, Laghu Parasari also says in the initial part that The below has been taken from the following site. Those with original texts can confirm this if the translation is correct. http://www.astrojyoti.com/laghuparashari.htm “2. For the enlightenment of the learned astrologers, I compose this Udu-daya-Pradeep on the basis of Parashara Hora-Shastra. 3. We will include the Astrological results (good or bad) of the Nakshatra Dasha Paddhati as shown in Vimshottari System; and do not believe in Ashtottari System. 4. The learned should make themselves familiar with the fundamentals of Astrology through other works. Here only the specific principles will be explained.” So here I take it that the basics and meaning of upachaya house, if its not mentioned in Laghu Parasara has certainly been given in Hora-Shastra. Now, for 6th as B in KAS, we are taking 11th and 3rd as E and D house so this is also considered and ofcourse House A is 1st house. Now, if u just take 11th house as malefic then what in essence one is saying and correct me if I have not understood this clearly, is that “Success is MALEFIC for 1st or SELF”. That would also mean that Child is MALEFIC for Mother. i.e. 3rd house is Mother so 1st house is SELF. In Prashna, one takes 11th house to find out the success of the Query and that is 1st. Dadhi, one thing, KAS and VA CANNOT be different. KAS is part and parcel of VA only and infact things get clarified. How is it possible for 11th house to be Malefic for 1st. Infact 1st house is Root KARAK for 11th house. A strong SELF is the Karak for 6th house and 6th house is Karak for 11th house. A person with good health / social status etc can get good success 11th. Or other way to say, is that Good Individuality is required for a Good Job and health and the better the job the better will be the Income. So the mool karak for 11th is 1st. So how can 11th be Malefic for 1st? This is the basic irrespective of VA or KAS. This must be understood clearly. What Laghu Parasarai said is not incorrect but the context for that has to be clearly understood. Yes, that is correct, what you have said about 2nd lord is not only worries but that is just one part but there are all good things too. If you talk of Raj Yog then 11th house is the success. It is the dhan sthan from 10th house so how it can be bad? We must have clear understanding of Basics and why the Rishis have same malefic and what is meant by malefic and for what house its malefic? Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of Dadhi Saturday March 22, 2008 2:12 PM RE: 2nd and 11th house Dear Satish and Ash, Sorry to jump in with my two cents... 11th lord is per standard VA certainly malefic, but mostly regarding longevity and yogas (specifically raja yogas in Laghu Parashari). However, yogas in KAS are taken care from another perspective. Since upachayas are cornestones of KAS, I would say for 11th that it is positive, Krushnaji mentioned somewhere (in archives) that 2nd lord antra has also positive sides/effects. all the best, Dadhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Satish and Dadhi, I am including Dadhi in this discussion as well. 6th house as per KAS is the worst house or we say black hole, but then again, we do not say that for ALL houses. For example, if u check the WS, for 1st house its House E, for 6th house its House B, for 2nd house its House C for 9th house its House D and for 11th house its House A. Just see the calculation from H1 to H12 and u can see that we do add power if the sight of 6th lord is Benefic for houses. So here we are taking care of the contras. 6th house is the house of Disease as its denotes stomach and all disease start from stomach. However for 1st house it is NOT bad. That is reflected in the points. So 6th house is treated as malefic but if 1st lord is in 6th house then KARAK itself has come to House B if 6th as B. So that is VERY powerful. 6th lord in 11th house makes 6th house very powerful as KARAK for 11th house has come to 11th house. So here we are differentiating such things. I hope this is clear. Yes for 7th house as B then 6th is 12th from B and also the black hole so 2 different things here. So now, please can u explain to me why is Success Malefic for SELF? i.e 11th house malefic for 1st. So if u go by lordship theory then it contradicts the upachaya theory. Laghu prasarai and the author of that has asked to use both? So then what is the truth. What exactly did the author of Laghu Parasari mean when he said 3, 6 and 11 are trik and in what context? I have to rush out now, but please write and I shall come back and reply. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of SPK Saturday March 22, 2008 2:38 PM RE: 2nd and 11th house Dear Ash, That is the crux of the question. 6th house is also upachaya house for 1st. But it is treated as house of disease/debt etc. in VA. 6th house in KAS is also teated as malefic. Yesit is more so for 7th as B, but in general also it is treated as bad and 6th lord is treated as malefic. Am I correct in this or is 6th lord bad only for matters of 7th house ? Thanks Satish --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) ca " <kas wrote: > Dear Satish, > > > > In VA its given that upachaya is house house of > growth. So for 1st house, > 11th house is 11th so upachaya. > > > > So what to agree on? > > > > Is the definition of upachaya wrong or is it that > approach that 11th lord is > not friendly to 1st lord not correct? > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On > Behalf Of SPK > Saturday March 22, 2008 12:40 PM > > RE: 2nd and 11th > house > > > > Dear Ash, > > The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can > never > be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords > are > malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord. > The > trines will be invariably friendly to lagna > lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya lagna > shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a malefic > of the same order.) > > There other nuances but for most part this holds > true. > Thats why 11th lord is malefic. > > 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives > results as per association. This is a s per Laghu > Parashari. > > The trines especially 9th lord can never be > unfriendly > to the lagna lord so is benefic. > > Satish > --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) > <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca " <kas > <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote: > > > Dear Satish, > > > > > > > > Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and > is > > it for all events of > > life? > > > > > > > > Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered > malefic > > for all the house for > > which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself, > > 7th, 2nd and 4th house > > results? > > > > > > > > If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also > > given that upachaya is the > > house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use > > vedic then u must also > > use all the parameters? > > > > > > > > KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to > > understand this basic as > > to why is 11th house considered malefic. > > > > > > > > Once we understand that then we can proceed, > because > > the basics of KAS is > > based on upachaya and that is given in VA also. > > > > > > > > Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will > > be talking 2 different > > languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th > house > > will be lost. > > > > > > > > So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha > > considered malefic and is it > > a blanket statement or are there any exceptions > and > > if there are then what > > are they so we should cover it from all angles. > > > > > > > > I would also request Gopal to take part in this as > > he is also following > > traditional astrology so that way we can get to > the > > root of it. > > > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> > ca/> http://www.ashtro. > <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca > > > > _____ > > > > astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents > > [astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents ] > On > > Behalf Of SPK > > Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM > > astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents > > Re: 2nd and > 11th > > house > > > > > > > > Thanks Anup, > > > > The question was not about bribes. The real > question > > is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat > 11th > > house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is > > considered > > malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but > > gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd > > lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the > > person has good points for Guru in this case for > 2nd > > huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens > > in > > this case also 8th house). How will the antara > > traspire? > > > > Thanks > > > > Satish > > --- " Anup. M " <dalh_1 (AT) (DOT) > > <dalh_1%40> com> wrote: > > > > > Dear SPK, > > > > > > > > > I still recall once Ash has explained this in > past > > > which i am > > > reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember > > > amil number. > > > Hope this will help u understand a little. > > > > > > > > > " Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to > > > misplay with money. Now > > > 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th > > > house is unearned > > > wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd > > > house, such persons > > > must not go for easy money such as speculation > or > === message truncated === ________ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Ash, Dadhi It has been a big diacotomy with me for many years. Some systems treat 11th house as most benefic( System's approach) this does not appear to be case if you go by Laghu parashari. Secondly, Parashar says planets in 11th house are good but laghu parashri says 11th lord is malefic. I have found that to be true to a degree. that In KAS dasha of 2nd lord is supposed to be agitating, similarly antara of 11th has not produced many pleasant outcomes. There may be gains but they are quite trasitory and by the end of the anatra they all evaporate. One way to look at it from KAS is 11th is house D for 2nd so if 2nd lord gives headaches won't 11th lord do that as well being LoD for 2nd? Satish --- " Ash's Corner " <kas wrote: > Dear Satish and Dadhi, > > > > I am including Dadhi in this discussion as well. > > > > 6th house as per KAS is the worst house or we say > black hole, but then > again, we do not say that for ALL houses. > > > > For example, if u check the WS, for 1st house its > House E, for 6th house its > House B, for 2nd house its House C for 9th house its > House D and for 11th > house its House A. Just see the calculation from H1 > to H12 and u can see > that we do add power if the sight of 6th lord is > Benefic for houses. > > > > So here we are taking care of the contras. > > > > 6th house is the house of Disease as its denotes > stomach and all disease > start from stomach. However for 1st house it is NOT > bad. That is reflected > in the points. > > > > So 6th house is treated as malefic but if 1st lord > is in 6th house then > KARAK itself has come to House B if 6th as B. So > that is VERY powerful. > 6th lord in 11th house makes 6th house very powerful > as KARAK for 11th house > has come to 11th house. > > > > So here we are differentiating such things. > > > > I hope this is clear. Yes for 7th house as B then > 6th is 12th from B and > also the black hole so 2 different things here. > > > > So now, please can u explain to me why is Success > Malefic for SELF? i.e > 11th house malefic for 1st. > > > > So if u go by lordship theory then it contradicts > the upachaya theory. > > > > Laghu prasarai and the author of that has asked to > use both? > > > > So then what is the truth. > > > > What exactly did the author of Laghu Parasari mean > when he said 3, 6 and 11 > are trik and in what context? > > > > > > I have to rush out now, but please write and I shall > come back and reply. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On > Behalf Of SPK > Saturday March 22, 2008 2:38 PM > > RE: 2nd and 11th > house > > > > Dear Ash, > > That is the crux of the question. 6th house is also > upachaya house for 1st. But it is treated as house > of > disease/debt etc. in VA. 6th house in KAS is also > teated as malefic. Yesit is more so for 7th as B, > but > in general also it is treated as bad and 6th lord is > treated as malefic. Am I correct in this or is 6th > lord bad only for matters of 7th house ? > > Thanks > > Satish > --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) > <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca " <kas > <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote: > > > Dear Satish, > > > > > > > > In VA its given that upachaya is house house of > > growth. So for 1st house, > > 11th house is 11th so upachaya. > > > > > > > > So what to agree on? > > > > > > > > Is the definition of upachaya wrong or is it that > > approach that 11th lord is > > not friendly to 1st lord not correct? > > > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> > ca/> http://www.ashtro. > <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca > > > > _____ > > > > astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents > > [astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents ] > On > > Behalf Of SPK > > Saturday March 22, 2008 12:40 PM > > astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents > > RE: 2nd and > 11th > > house > > > > > > > > Dear Ash, > > > > The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can > > never > > be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords > > are > > malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord. > > The > > trines will be invariably friendly to lagna > > lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya > lagna > > shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a > malefic > > of the same order.) > > > > There other nuances but for most part this holds > > true. > > Thats why 11th lord is malefic. > > > > 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives > > results as per association. This is a s per Laghu > > Parashari. > > > > The trines especially 9th lord can never be > > unfriendly > > to the lagna lord so is benefic. > > > > Satish > > --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) > > <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca " <kas > <kas%40ashtro.ca> === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Ash, Satish, Dadhi If I may add the Vedic astrology perspective: 11th from any house is gain (successful completeion of work/task/objective ...e.g. 11th lord from 10th is 8th house indicator of retirement). But also is 6th from 6th. Hence is not pure benefic. 11th lord dasa will always be with debt/disease/enemy etc. Any benefic/malefic is related with two things - its jeeva and material ( " dravya " ). 11th is considered benefic for dravya only. If I may recall Late Santhanam's perspective - he has always considered 11th lord's dasa as most malefic one - simply for the fact that it catches native unguarded. For few lagnas - 11th lord does become badhka lord (if it is also 22nd drekkna lord) - and if so, it will certainly carry its ill effects in its MD/AD. Likewise - for few lagnas (e.g. leo / kumbha) - it is markesh also. So it carries ability to trouble native. regards / Prafulla Gang " If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. " ************************************************ > > kas > Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:48:56 -0400 > > RE: 2nd and 11th house > > Dear Satish and Dadhi, > > > > I am including Dadhi in this discussion as well. > > > > 6th house as per KAS is the worst house or we say black hole, but then > again, we do not say that for ALL houses. > > > > For example, if u check the WS, for 1st house its House E, for 6th house > its > House B, for 2nd house its House C for 9th house its House D and for 11th > house its House A. Just see the calculation from H1 to H12 and u can see > that we do add power if the sight of 6th lord is Benefic for houses. > > > > So here we are taking care of the contras. > > > > 6th house is the house of Disease as its denotes stomach and all disease > start from stomach. However for 1st house it is NOT bad. That is > reflected > in the points. > > > > So 6th house is treated as malefic but if 1st lord is in 6th house then > KARAK itself has come to House B if 6th as B. So that is VERY powerful. > 6th lord in 11th house makes 6th house very powerful as KARAK for 11th > house > has come to 11th house. > > > > So here we are differentiating such things. > > > > I hope this is clear. Yes for 7th house as B then 6th is 12th from B and > also the black hole so 2 different things here. > > > > So now, please can u explain to me why is Success Malefic for SELF? i.e > 11th house malefic for 1st. > > > > So if u go by lordship theory then it contradicts the upachaya theory. > > > > Laghu prasarai and the author of that has asked to use both? > > > > So then what is the truth. > > > > What exactly did the author of Laghu Parasari mean when he said 3, 6 and > 11 > are trik and in what context? > > > > > > I have to rush out now, but please write and I shall come back and reply. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of SPK > Saturday March 22, 2008 2:38 PM > > RE: 2nd and 11th house > > > > Dear Ash, > > That is the crux of the question. 6th house is also > upachaya house for 1st. But it is treated as house of > disease/debt etc. in VA. 6th house in KAS is also > teated as malefic. Yesit is more so for 7th as B, but > in general also it is treated as bad and 6th lord is > treated as malefic. Am I correct in this or is 6th > lord bad only for matters of 7th house ? > > Thanks > > Satish > --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca " <kas > <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote: > >> Dear Satish, >> >> >> >> In VA its given that upachaya is house house of >> growth. So for 1st house, >> 11th house is 11th so upachaya. >> >> >> >> So what to agree on? >> >> >> >> Is the definition of upachaya wrong or is it that >> approach that 11th lord is >> not friendly to 1st lord not correct? >> >> >> >> Cheers !!! >> >> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> ca/> >> http://www.ashtro. > <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca >> >> _____ >> >> astrologyandtiminge > <%40> vents >> [astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents ] > On >> Behalf Of SPK >> Saturday March 22, 2008 12:40 PM >> astrologyandtiminge > <%40> vents >> RE: 2nd and 11th >> house >> >> >> >> Dear Ash, >> >> The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can >> never >> be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords >> are >> malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord. >> The >> trines will be invariably friendly to lagna >> lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya lagna >> shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a malefic >> of the same order.) >> >> There other nuances but for most part this holds >> true. >> Thats why 11th lord is malefic. >> >> 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives >> results as per association. This is a s per Laghu >> Parashari. >> >> The trines especially 9th lord can never be >> unfriendly >> to the lagna lord so is benefic. >> >> Satish >> --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) >> <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca " <kas <kas%40ashtro.ca> >> <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote: >> >>> Dear Satish, >>> >>> >>> >>> Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and >> is >>> it for all events of >>> life? >>> >>> >>> >>> Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered >> malefic >>> for all the house for >>> which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself, >>> 7th, 2nd and 4th house >>> results? >>> >>> >>> >>> If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also >>> given that upachaya is the >>> house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use >>> vedic then u must also >>> use all the parameters? >>> >>> >>> >>> KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to >>> understand this basic as >>> to why is 11th house considered malefic. >>> >>> >>> >>> Once we understand that then we can proceed, >> because >>> the basics of KAS is >>> based on upachaya and that is given in VA also. >>> >>> >>> >>> Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will >>> be talking 2 different >>> languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th >> house >>> will be lost. >>> >>> >>> >>> So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha >>> considered malefic and is it >>> a blanket statement or are there any exceptions >> and >>> if there are then what >>> are they so we should cover it from all angles. >>> >>> >>> >>> I would also request Gopal to take part in this as >>> he is also following >>> traditional astrology so that way we can get to >> the >>> root of it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers !!! >>> >>> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> > ca/> >> ca/> http://www.ashtro. >> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca> ca >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> astrologyandtiminge >> <%40> >> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com >>> [astrologyandtiminge >> <%40> >> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com] >> On >>> Behalf Of SPK >>> Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM >>> astrologyandtiminge >> <%40> >> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com >>> Re: 2nd and >> 11th >>> house >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks Anup, >>> >>> The question was not about bribes. The real >> question >>> is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat >> 11th >>> house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is >>> considered >>> malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but >>> gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd >>> lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the >>> person has good points for Guru in this case for >> 2nd >>> huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens >>> in >>> this case also 8th house). How will the antara >>> traspire? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Satish >>> --- " Anup. M " <dalh_1 (AT) (DOT) >>> <dalh_1%40> com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear SPK, >>>> >>>> >>>> I still recall once Ash has explained this in >> past >>>> which i am >>>> reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember >>>> amil number. >>>> Hope this will help u understand a little. >>>> >>>> >>>> " Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to >>>> misplay with money. Now >>>> 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th >>>> house is unearned >>>> wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd >>>> house, such persons >>>> must not go for easy money such as speculation >> or >> > === message truncated === > > ________ > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > http://www.. <http://www./r/hs> com/r/hs __________ FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Ash One more thing from vedic astrology perspective: Bhavartha Ratnakar has explained for various lagna that lords of 3/6/11 are bad (not necessarily the houses); and if 11th lord joins trine lord or kendra lord (must be natural malefic) - then it gives yoga karka results..else it is considered bad. Upachaya generally are growth factors and strongly indicates present life karma. Native got to work for the respective results. I also heard few traditionalists saying that natural malefic in 3/6/11 (specially if they are debilitated) are wealth givers. regards / Prafulla Gang " If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. " ************************************************ > > kas > Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:39:18 -0400 > > RE: 2nd and 11th house > > Dear Dadhi, > > > > I am very glad that u joined in and I also invite others to join in this > discussion as personally I would like to get to the root of this. > > > > Yes, Dadhi you are correct, the upachaya theory is of prime importance in > KAS. This upachaya has been given in each and every VA book. I do not > think anyone will oppose that. This is the basics. 3, 6, 10 and 11th > are > special as upachaya and the meaning of that as per Sanskrit disctionary > is > Heap, Growth and Prosperity. So in my opinion this must be used by each > and > everyone using VA. > > > > Now, Laghu Parasari also says in the initial part that > > > > The below has been taken from the following site. Those with original > texts > can confirm this if the translation is correct. > > > > http://www.astrojyoti.com/laghuparashari.htm > > > > " 2. For the enlightenment of the learned astrologers, I compose this > Udu-daya-Pradeep on the basis of Parashara Hora-Shastra. > 3. We will include the Astrological results (good or bad) of the > Nakshatra > Dasha Paddhati as shown in Vimshottari System; and do not believe in > Ashtottari System. > 4. The learned should make themselves familiar with the fundamentals of > Astrology through other works. Here only the specific principles will be > explained. " > > > > So here I take it that the basics and meaning of upachaya house, if its > not > mentioned in Laghu Parasara has certainly been given in Hora-Shastra. > > > > Now, for 6th as B in KAS, we are taking 11th and 3rd as E and D house so > this is also considered and ofcourse House A is 1st house. > > > > Now, if u just take 11th house as malefic then what in essence one is > saying > and correct me if I have not understood this clearly, is that " Success is > MALEFIC for 1st or SELF " . > > > > That would also mean that Child is MALEFIC for Mother. i.e. 3rd house is > Mother so 1st house is SELF. > > > > In Prashna, one takes 11th house to find out the success of the Query and > that is 1st. > > > > > > Dadhi, one thing, KAS and VA CANNOT be different. KAS is part and parcel > of > VA only and infact things get clarified. > > > > How is it possible for 11th house to be Malefic for 1st. Infact 1st > house > is Root KARAK for 11th house. > > > > A strong SELF is the Karak for 6th house and 6th house is Karak for 11th > house. > > > > A person with good health / social status etc can get good success 11th. > Or > other way to say, is that Good Individuality is required for a Good Job > and > health and the better the job the better will be the Income. So the mool > karak for 11th is 1st. So how can 11th be Malefic for 1st? > > > > This is the basic irrespective of VA or KAS. This must be understood > clearly. > > > > What Laghu Parasarai said is not incorrect but the context for that has > to > be clearly understood. > > > > Yes, that is correct, what you have said about 2nd lord is not only > worries > but that is just one part but there are all good things too. > > > > If you talk of Raj Yog then 11th house is the success. It is the dhan > sthan from 10th house so how it can be bad? > > > > > > We must have clear understanding of Basics and why the Rishis have same > malefic and what is meant by malefic and for what house its malefic? > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Dadhi > Saturday March 22, 2008 2:12 PM > > RE: 2nd and 11th house > > > > Dear Satish and Ash, > > Sorry to jump in with my two cents... > > 11th lord is per standard VA certainly malefic, but mostly regarding > longevity and yogas (specifically raja yogas in Laghu Parashari). > However, > yogas in KAS are taken care from another perspective. > > Since upachayas are cornestones of KAS, I would say for 11th that it is > positive, > > Krushnaji mentioned somewhere (in archives) that 2nd lord antra has also > positive sides/effects. > > all the best, > Dadhi __________ FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop! 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Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Prafulla, Satish and Dadhi, What is the meaning of upachaya sthan and what is its use in VA? Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of Prafulla Gang Saturday March 22, 2008 11:09 PM RE: 2nd and 11th house Dear Ash, Satish, Dadhi If I may add the Vedic astrology perspective: 11th from any house is gain (successful completeion of work/task/objective ...e.g. 11th lord from 10th is 8th house indicator of retirement). But also is 6th from 6th. Hence is not pure benefic. 11th lord dasa will always be with debt/disease/enemy etc. Any benefic/malefic is related with two things - its jeeva and material ( " dravya " ). 11th is considered benefic for dravya only. If I may recall Late Santhanam's perspective - he has always considered 11th lord's dasa as most malefic one - simply for the fact that it catches native unguarded. For few lagnas - 11th lord does become badhka lord (if it is also 22nd drekkna lord) - and if so, it will certainly carry its ill effects in its MD/AD. Likewise - for few lagnas (e.g. leo / kumbha) - it is markesh also. So it carries ability to trouble native. regards / Prafulla Gang " If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. " ************************************************ > > kas > Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:48:56 -0400 > > RE: 2nd and 11th house > > Dear Satish and Dadhi, > > > > I am including Dadhi in this discussion as well. > > > > 6th house as per KAS is the worst house or we say black hole, but then > again, we do not say that for ALL houses. > > > > For example, if u check the WS, for 1st house its House E, for 6th house > its > House B, for 2nd house its House C for 9th house its House D and for 11th > house its House A. Just see the calculation from H1 to H12 and u can see > that we do add power if the sight of 6th lord is Benefic for houses. > > > > So here we are taking care of the contras. > > > > 6th house is the house of Disease as its denotes stomach and all disease > start from stomach. However for 1st house it is NOT bad. That is > reflected > in the points. > > > > So 6th house is treated as malefic but if 1st lord is in 6th house then > KARAK itself has come to House B if 6th as B. So that is VERY powerful. > 6th lord in 11th house makes 6th house very powerful as KARAK for 11th > house > has come to 11th house. > > > > So here we are differentiating such things. > > > > I hope this is clear. Yes for 7th house as B then 6th is 12th from B and > also the black hole so 2 different things here. > > > > So now, please can u explain to me why is Success Malefic for SELF? i.e > 11th house malefic for 1st. > > > > So if u go by lordship theory then it contradicts the upachaya theory. > > > > Laghu prasarai and the author of that has asked to use both? > > > > So then what is the truth. > > > > What exactly did the author of Laghu Parasari mean when he said 3, 6 and > 11 > are trik and in what context? > > > > > > I have to rush out now, but please write and I shall come back and reply. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of SPK > Saturday March 22, 2008 2:38 PM > > RE: 2nd and 11th house > > > > Dear Ash, > > That is the crux of the question. 6th house is also > upachaya house for 1st. But it is treated as house of > disease/debt etc. in VA. 6th house in KAS is also > teated as malefic. Yesit is more so for 7th as B, but > in general also it is treated as bad and 6th lord is > treated as malefic. Am I correct in this or is 6th > lord bad only for matters of 7th house ? > > Thanks > > Satish > --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca " <kas > <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote: > >> Dear Satish, >> >> >> >> In VA its given that upachaya is house house of >> growth. So for 1st house, >> 11th house is 11th so upachaya. >> >> >> >> So what to agree on? >> >> >> >> Is the definition of upachaya wrong or is it that >> approach that 11th lord is >> not friendly to 1st lord not correct? >> >> >> >> Cheers !!! >> >> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> ca/> >> http://www.ashtro. > <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca >> >> _____ >> >> astrologyandtiminge > <%40> vents >> [astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents ] > On >> Behalf Of SPK >> Saturday March 22, 2008 12:40 PM >> astrologyandtiminge > <%40> vents >> RE: 2nd and 11th >> house >> >> >> >> Dear Ash, >> >> The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can >> never >> be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords >> are >> malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord. >> The >> trines will be invariably friendly to lagna >> lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya lagna >> shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a malefic >> of the same order.) >> >> There other nuances but for most part this holds >> true. >> Thats why 11th lord is malefic. >> >> 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives >> results as per association. This is a s per Laghu >> Parashari. >> >> The trines especially 9th lord can never be >> unfriendly >> to the lagna lord so is benefic. >> >> Satish >> --- " Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) >> <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca " <kas <kas%40ashtro.ca> >> <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote: >> >>> Dear Satish, >>> >>> >>> >>> Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and >> is >>> it for all events of >>> life? >>> >>> >>> >>> Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered >> malefic >>> for all the house for >>> which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself, >>> 7th, 2nd and 4th house >>> results? >>> >>> >>> >>> If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also >>> given that upachaya is the >>> house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use >>> vedic then u must also >>> use all the parameters? >>> >>> >>> >>> KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to >>> understand this basic as >>> to why is 11th house considered malefic. >>> >>> >>> >>> Once we understand that then we can proceed, >> because >>> the basics of KAS is >>> based on upachaya and that is given in VA also. >>> >>> >>> >>> Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will >>> be talking 2 different >>> languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th >> house >>> will be lost. >>> >>> >>> >>> So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha >>> considered malefic and is it >>> a blanket statement or are there any exceptions >> and >>> if there are then what >>> are they so we should cover it from all angles. >>> >>> >>> >>> I would also request Gopal to take part in this as >>> he is also following >>> traditional astrology so that way we can get to >> the >>> root of it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers !!! >>> >>> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> > ca/> >> ca/> http://www.ashtro. >> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca> ca >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> astrologyandtiminge >> <%40> >> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com >>> [astrologyandtiminge >> <%40> >> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com] >> On >>> Behalf Of SPK >>> Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM >>> astrologyandtiminge >> <%40> >> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com >>> Re: 2nd and >> 11th >>> house >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks Anup, >>> >>> The question was not about bribes. The real >> question >>> is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat >> 11th >>> house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is >>> considered >>> malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but >>> gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd >>> lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the >>> person has good points for Guru in this case for >> 2nd >>> huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens >>> in >>> this case also 8th house). How will the antara >>> traspire? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Satish >>> --- " Anup. M " <dalh_1 (AT) (DOT) >>> <dalh_1%40> com> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear SPK, >>>> >>>> >>>> I still recall once Ash has explained this in >> past >>>> which i am >>>> reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember >>>> amil number. >>>> Hope this will help u understand a little. >>>> >>>> >>>> " Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to >>>> misplay with money. Now >>>> 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th >>>> house is unearned >>>> wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd >>>> house, such persons >>>> must not go for easy money such as speculation >> or >> > === message truncated === > > ________ > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > http://www.. <http://www./r/hs> com/r/hs ________ FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Prafulla, Malefics in 3, 6 10 and 11 are good no doubt but in what context. That was the first question that Krushnaji had asked when he had started the list. Yes, even if that is understood and in what context that has been said by traditionalist then so many things will get clear. I had written a long post on that as well, I believe it was to Sanjiva or Satish. Then again, my very simple and basic question is, what are upachaya sthan and what is the meaning and the use of it in VA? All the seers have only said that only 3 6 10 and 11th house are the house of growth from any house and the rest are not. So how can 11th house be malefic for 1st house. My fundamental question remains unanswered still, -- If one says that 11th house is malefic for 1st house, then what is the meaning of upachaya sthan? What is the use of upachaya sthan in VA? Has that been given or explained. I think everyone is saying that upachaya means growth, heap and prosperity, so how can 3rd, 6th, 10th and 11th be bad from any house? Please can you or Satish or Dadhi explain to me what did Santhanamji mean that 11th lord is malefic for 1st house? If he has said that then what is the meaning of upachaya? I think Santhanamji has also translated that 3, 6, 10 and 11th house from any house are the upachaya sthan. So why the contradiction? Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of Prafulla Gang Sunday March 23, 2008 12:16 AM RE: 2nd and 11th house Dear Ash One more thing from vedic astrology perspective: Bhavartha Ratnakar has explained for various lagna that lords of 3/6/11 are bad (not necessarily the houses); and if 11th lord joins trine lord or kendra lord (must be natural malefic) - then it gives yoga karka results..else it is considered bad. Upachaya generally are growth factors and strongly indicates present life karma. Native got to work for the respective results. I also heard few traditionalists saying that natural malefic in 3/6/11 (specially if they are debilitated) are wealth givers. regards / Prafulla Gang " If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. " ************************************************ > > kas > Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:39:18 -0400 > > RE: 2nd and 11th house > > Dear Dadhi, > > > > I am very glad that u joined in and I also invite others to join in this > discussion as personally I would like to get to the root of this. > > > > Yes, Dadhi you are correct, the upachaya theory is of prime importance in > KAS. This upachaya has been given in each and every VA book. I do not > think anyone will oppose that. This is the basics. 3, 6, 10 and 11th > are > special as upachaya and the meaning of that as per Sanskrit disctionary > is > Heap, Growth and Prosperity. So in my opinion this must be used by each > and > everyone using VA. > > > > Now, Laghu Parasari also says in the initial part that > > > > The below has been taken from the following site. Those with original > texts > can confirm this if the translation is correct. > > > > http://www.astrojyoti.com/laghuparashari.htm > > > > " 2. For the enlightenment of the learned astrologers, I compose this > Udu-daya-Pradeep on the basis of Parashara Hora-Shastra. > 3. We will include the Astrological results (good or bad) of the > Nakshatra > Dasha Paddhati as shown in Vimshottari System; and do not believe in > Ashtottari System. > 4. The learned should make themselves familiar with the fundamentals of > Astrology through other works. Here only the specific principles will be > explained. " > > > > So here I take it that the basics and meaning of upachaya house, if its > not > mentioned in Laghu Parasara has certainly been given in Hora-Shastra. > > > > Now, for 6th as B in KAS, we are taking 11th and 3rd as E and D house so > this is also considered and ofcourse House A is 1st house. > > > > Now, if u just take 11th house as malefic then what in essence one is > saying > and correct me if I have not understood this clearly, is that " Success is > MALEFIC for 1st or SELF " . > > > > That would also mean that Child is MALEFIC for Mother. i.e. 3rd house is > Mother so 1st house is SELF. > > > > In Prashna, one takes 11th house to find out the success of the Query and > that is 1st. > > > > > > Dadhi, one thing, KAS and VA CANNOT be different. KAS is part and parcel > of > VA only and infact things get clarified. > > > > How is it possible for 11th house to be Malefic for 1st. Infact 1st > house > is Root KARAK for 11th house. > > > > A strong SELF is the Karak for 6th house and 6th house is Karak for 11th > house. > > > > A person with good health / social status etc can get good success 11th. > Or > other way to say, is that Good Individuality is required for a Good Job > and > health and the better the job the better will be the Income. So the mool > karak for 11th is 1st. So how can 11th be Malefic for 1st? > > > > This is the basic irrespective of VA or KAS. This must be understood > clearly. > > > > What Laghu Parasarai said is not incorrect but the context for that has > to > be clearly understood. > > > > Yes, that is correct, what you have said about 2nd lord is not only > worries > but that is just one part but there are all good things too. > > > > If you talk of Raj Yog then 11th house is the success. It is the dhan > sthan from 10th house so how it can be bad? > > > > > > We must have clear understanding of Basics and why the Rishis have same > malefic and what is meant by malefic and for what house its malefic? > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Dadhi > Saturday March 22, 2008 2:12 PM > > RE: 2nd and 11th house > > > > Dear Satish and Ash, > > Sorry to jump in with my two cents... > > 11th lord is per standard VA certainly malefic, but mostly regarding > longevity and yogas (specifically raja yogas in Laghu Parashari). > However, > yogas in KAS are taken care from another perspective. > > Since upachayas are cornestones of KAS, I would say for 11th that it is > positive, > > Krushnaji mentioned somewhere (in archives) that 2nd lord antra has also > positive sides/effects. > > all the best, > Dadhi ________ FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop! 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Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Prafulla,Ash,Satish, As per KAS, 6th lord is LoE and during its antra,a person will get its individuality,status etc.A person might be successful in competing with his enemies.So like that it is benefic for 9th house results also as 6th beccome LoD. Now Satish point of view is different. 2nd house means accumulated wealth,bank balance etc. 11th house means gains,fulfilment if wishes,desires. 11th lord being LoD for 2nd and LoE for 6th will give benefic results for these houses as 11th will be secondary upachya house. How can a upachyasthan be bad for these houses? A person might be having a lot of bank balance,wealth as shown in 2nd house with high points, but he might not be satisfied with this as shown in 11th house with less points.His worries will be shown in other houses. 2nd lord antra is always of problems,this we found in many charts also.Krushnaji, in one his mail also endorse that 2nd lord being LoE can create some obstacles for 9th house matters and 6th lord being LoD may give the better result for 9th house matters.So again 2nd lord and its samdharmi planets with less points be reflecting obstructions,obstacles etc during its antra's. Regards Anup Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: Dear Ash, Satish, DadhiIf I may add the Vedic astrology perspective:11th from any house is gain (successful completeion of work/task/objective ..e.g. 11th lord from 10th is 8th house indicator of retirement). But also is 6th from 6th. Hence is not pure benefic. 11th lord dasa will always be with debt/disease/enemy etc. Any benefic/malefic is related with two things - its jeeva and material ("dravya"). 11th is considered benefic for dravya only.If I may recall Late Santhanam's perspective - he has always considered 11th lord's dasa as most malefic one - simply for the fact that it catches native unguarded.For few lagnas - 11th lord does become badhka lord (if it is also 22nd drekkna lord) - and if so, it will certainly carry its ill effects in its MD/AD. Likewise - for few lagnas (e.g. leo / kumbha) - it is markesh also. So it carries ability to trouble native.regards / Prafulla Gang"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man."************************************************> > kas Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:48:56 -0400> > RE: 2nd and 11th house> > Dear Satish and Dadhi,> > > > I am including Dadhi in this discussion as well.> > > > 6th house as per KAS is the worst house or we say black hole, but then> again, we do not say that for ALL houses.> > > > For example, if u check the WS, for 1st house its House E, for 6th house> its> House B, for 2nd house its House C for 9th house its House D and for 11th> house its House A. Just see the calculation from H1 to H12 and u can see> that we do add power if the sight of 6th lord is Benefic for houses.> > > > So here we are taking care of the contras.> > > > 6th house is the house of Disease as its denotes stomach and all disease> start from stomach. However for 1st house it is NOT bad. That is> reflected> in the points.> > > > So 6th house is treated as malefic but if 1st lord is in 6th house then> KARAK itself has come to House B if 6th as B. So that is VERY powerful.> 6th lord in 11th house makes 6th house very powerful as KARAK for 11th> house> has come to 11th house.> > > > So here we are differentiating such things.> > > > I hope this is clear. Yes for 7th house as B then 6th is 12th from B and> also the black hole so 2 different things here.> > > > So now, please can u explain to me why is Success Malefic for SELF? i.e> 11th house malefic for 1st.> > > > So if u go by lordship theory then it contradicts the upachaya theory.> > > > Laghu prasarai and the author of that has asked to use both?> > > > So then what is the truth.> > > > What exactly did the author of Laghu Parasari mean when he said 3, 6 and> 11> are trik and in what context?> > > > > > I have to rush out now, but please write and I shall come back and reply.> > > > Cheers !!!> > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca> > _____> > > On Behalf Of SPK> Saturday March 22, 2008 2:38 PM> > RE: 2nd and 11th house> > > > Dear Ash,> > That is the crux of the question. 6th house is also> upachaya house for 1st. But it is treated as house of> disease/debt etc. in VA. 6th house in KAS is also> teated as malefic. Yesit is more so for 7th as B, but> in general also it is treated as bad and 6th lord is> treated as malefic. Am I correct in this or is 6th> lord bad only for matters of 7th house ?> > Thanks> > Satish> --- "Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca" <kas <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote:> >> Dear Satish,>> >> >> >> In VA its given that upachaya is house house of>> growth. So for 1st house,>> 11th house is 11th so upachaya.>> >> >> >> So what to agree on?>> >> >> >> Is the definition of upachaya wrong or is it that>> approach that 11th lord is>> not friendly to 1st lord not correct?>> >> >> >> Cheers !!!>> >> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> ca/>>> http://www.ashtro.> <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca>> >> _____>> >> astrologyandtiminge> <%40> vents >> [astrologyandtiminge> <%40>> vents ]> On>> Behalf Of SPK>> Saturday March 22, 2008 12:40 PM>> To: astrologyandtiminge> <%40> vents >> RE: 2nd and 11th>> house>> >> >> >> Dear Ash,>> >> The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can>> never>> be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords>> are>> malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord.>> The>> trines will be invariably friendly to lagna>> lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya lagna>> shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a malefic>> of the same order.)>> >> There other nuances but for most part this holds>> true.>> Thats why 11th lord is malefic.>> >> 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives>> results as per association. This is a s per Laghu>> Parashari.>> >> The trines especially 9th lord can never be>> unfriendly>> to the lagna lord so is benefic.>> >> Satish>> --- "Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) >> <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca" <kas <kas%40ashtro.ca>>> <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote:>> >>> Dear Satish,>>> >>> >>> >>> Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and>> is>>> it for all events of>>> life?>>> >>> >>> >>> Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered>> malefic>>> for all the house for>>> which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself,>>> 7th, 2nd and 4th house>>> results?>>> >>> >>> >>> If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also>>> given that upachaya is the>>> house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use>>> vedic then u must also>>> use all the parameters?>>> >>> >>> >>> KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to>>> understand this basic as>>> to why is 11th house considered malefic.>>> >>> >>> >>> Once we understand that then we can proceed,>> because>>> the basics of KAS is>>> based on upachaya and that is given in VA also.>>> >>> >>> >>> Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will>>> be talking 2 different>>> languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th>> house>>> will be lost.>>> >>> >>> >>> So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha>>> considered malefic and is it>>> a blanket statement or are there any exceptions>> and>>> if there are then what>>> are they so we should cover it from all angles.>>> >>> >>> >>> I would also request Gopal to take part in this as>>> he is also following>>> traditional astrology so that way we can get to>> the>>> root of it.>>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers !!!>>> >>> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/>> ca/>>> ca/> http://www.ashtro.>> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca> ca>>> >>> _____>>> >>> astrologyandtiminge>> <%40>>> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com>>> [astrologyandtiminge>> <%40>>> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com]>> On>>> Behalf Of SPK>>> Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM>>> astrologyandtiminge>> <%40>>> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com>>> Re: 2nd and>> 11th>>> house>>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks Anup,>>> >>> The question was not about bribes. The real>> question>>> is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat>> 11th>>> house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is>>> considered>>> malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but>>> gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd>>> lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the>>> person has good points for Guru in this case for>> 2nd>>> huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens>>> in>>> this case also 8th house). How will the antara>>> traspire?>>> >>> Thanks>>> >>> Satish>>> --- "Anup. M" <dalh_1 (AT) (DOT) >>> <dalh_1%40> com> wrote:>>> >>>> Dear SPK,>>>> >>>> >>>> I still recall once Ash has explained this in>> past>>>> which i am>>>> reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember>>>> amil number.>>>> Hope this will help u understand a little.>>>> >>>> >>>> "Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to>>>> misplay with money. Now>>>> 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th>>>> house is unearned>>>> wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd>>>> house, such persons>>>> must not go for easy money such as speculation>> or>> > === message truncated ===> > ________> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.> http://www.. <http://www./r/hs> com/r/hs________FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop!Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dear Prafulla,Ash,Satish, As per KAS, 6th lord is LoE and during its antra,a person will get its individuality,status etc.A person might be successful in competing with his enemies.So like that it is benefic for 9th house results also as 6th beccome LoD. Now Satish point of view is different. 2nd house means accumulated wealth,bank balance etc. 11th house means gains,fulfilment if wishes,desires. 11th lord being LoD for 2nd and LoE for 6th will give benefic results for these houses as 11th will be secondary upachya house. How can a upachyasthan be bad for these houses? A person might be having a lot of bank balance,wealth as shown in 2nd house with high points, but he might not be satisfied with this as shown in 11th house with less points.His worries will be shown in other houses. 2nd lord antra is always of problems,this we found in many charts also.Krushnaji, in one his mail also endorse that 2nd lord being LoE can create some obstacles for 9th house matters and 6th lord being LoD may give the better result for 9th house matters.So again 2nd lord and its samdharmi planets with less points be reflecting obstructions,obstacles etc during its antra's. Regards Anup Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: Dear Ash, Satish, DadhiIf I may add the Vedic astrology perspective:11th from any house is gain (successful completeion of work/task/objective ..e.g. 11th lord from 10th is 8th house indicator of retirement). But also is 6th from 6th. Hence is not pure benefic. 11th lord dasa will always be with debt/disease/enemy etc. Any benefic/malefic is related with two things - its jeeva and material ("dravya"). 11th is considered benefic for dravya only.If I may recall Late Santhanam's perspective - he has always considered 11th lord's dasa as most malefic one - simply for the fact that it catches native unguarded.For few lagnas - 11th lord does become badhka lord (if it is also 22nd drekkna lord) - and if so, it will certainly carry its ill effects in its MD/AD. Likewise - for few lagnas (e.g. leo / kumbha) - it is markesh also. So it carries ability to trouble native.regards / Prafulla Gang"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man."************************************************> > kas Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:48:56 -0400> > RE: 2nd and 11th house> > Dear Satish and Dadhi,> > > > I am including Dadhi in this discussion as well.> > > > 6th house as per KAS is the worst house or we say black hole, but then> again, we do not say that for ALL houses.> > > > For example, if u check the WS, for 1st house its House E, for 6th house> its> House B, for 2nd house its House C for 9th house its House D and for 11th> house its House A. Just see the calculation from H1 to H12 and u can see> that we do add power if the sight of 6th lord is Benefic for houses.> > > > So here we are taking care of the contras.> > > > 6th house is the house of Disease as its denotes stomach and all disease> start from stomach. However for 1st house it is NOT bad. That is> reflected> in the points.> > > > So 6th house is treated as malefic but if 1st lord is in 6th house then> KARAK itself has come to House B if 6th as B. So that is VERY powerful.> 6th lord in 11th house makes 6th house very powerful as KARAK for 11th> house> has come to 11th house.> > > > So here we are differentiating such things.> > > > I hope this is clear. Yes for 7th house as B then 6th is 12th from B and> also the black hole so 2 different things here.> > > > So now, please can u explain to me why is Success Malefic for SELF? i.e> 11th house malefic for 1st.> > > > So if u go by lordship theory then it contradicts the upachaya theory.> > > > Laghu prasarai and the author of that has asked to use both?> > > > So then what is the truth.> > > > What exactly did the author of Laghu Parasari mean when he said 3, 6 and> 11> are trik and in what context?> > > > > > I have to rush out now, but please write and I shall come back and reply.> > > > Cheers !!!> > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca> > _____> > > On Behalf Of SPK> Saturday March 22, 2008 2:38 PM> > RE: 2nd and 11th house> > > > Dear Ash,> > That is the crux of the question. 6th house is also> upachaya house for 1st. But it is treated as house of> disease/debt etc. in VA. 6th house in KAS is also> teated as malefic. Yesit is more so for 7th as B, but> in general also it is treated as bad and 6th lord is> treated as malefic. Am I correct in this or is 6th> lord bad only for matters of 7th house ?> > Thanks> > Satish> --- "Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca" <kas <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote:> >> Dear Satish,>> >> >> >> In VA its given that upachaya is house house of>> growth. So for 1st house,>> 11th house is 11th so upachaya.>> >> >> >> So what to agree on?>> >> >> >> Is the definition of upachaya wrong or is it that>> approach that 11th lord is>> not friendly to 1st lord not correct?>> >> >> >> Cheers !!!>> >> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/> ca/>>> http://www.ashtro.> <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca>> >> _____>> >> astrologyandtiminge> <%40> vents >> [astrologyandtiminge> <%40>> vents ]> On>> Behalf Of SPK>> Saturday March 22, 2008 12:40 PM>> astrologyandtiminge> <%40> vents >> RE: 2nd and 11th>> house>> >> >> >> Dear Ash,>> >> The main reason I see is that the 11th lord can>> never>> be a friend of the lagna lord. 3,6, and 11th lords>> are>> malefic as they are unfriendly to the lagna lord.>> The>> trines will be invariably friendly to lagna>> lord.(There are a few exceptions as for kanya lagna>> shani is 5th and 6th lord so a benefic and a malefic>> of the same order.)>> >> There other nuances but for most part this holds>> true.>> Thats why 11th lord is malefic.>> >> 2nd and 12th lord is considered neutral and gives>> results as per association. This is a s per Laghu>> Parashari.>> >> The trines especially 9th lord can never be>> unfriendly>> to the lagna lord so is benefic.>> >> Satish>> --- "Ash's Corner (AT) ashtro (DOT) >> <Corner%40ashtro.ca> ca" <kas <kas%40ashtro.ca>>> <kas%40ashtro.ca> > wrote:>> >>> Dear Satish,>>> >>> >>> >>> Why is the 11th lord dasha considered malefic and>> is>>> it for all events of>>> life?>>> >>> >>> >>> Is traditionally 11th lord dasha considered>> malefic>>> for all the house for>>> which its upachaya also such as 6th, 11th itself,>>> 7th, 2nd and 4th house>>> results?>>> >>> >>> >>> If you are going by Vedic then in Vedic its also>>> given that upachaya is the>>> house of growth, heap and prosperity then if u use>>> vedic then u must also>>> use all the parameters?>>> >>> >>> >>> KAS is not different from Vedic so I would like to>>> understand this basic as>>> to why is 11th house considered malefic.>>> >>> >>> >>> Once we understand that then we can proceed,>> because>>> the basics of KAS is>>> based on upachaya and that is given in VA also.>>> >>> >>> >>> Satish, otherwise what will happen is that we will>>> be talking 2 different>>> languages and the basic of 2nd house and 11th>> house>>> will be lost.>>> >>> >>> >>> So please explain to me why is 11th lord dasha>>> considered malefic and is it>>> a blanket statement or are there any exceptions>> and>>> if there are then what>>> are they so we should cover it from all angles.>>> >>> >>> >>> I would also request Gopal to take part in this as>>> he is also following>>> traditional astrology so that way we can get to>> the>>> root of it.>>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers !!!>>> >>> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca/>> ca/>>> ca/> http://www.ashtro.>> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca> ca>>> >>> _____>>> >>> astrologyandtiminge>> <%40>>> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com>>> [astrologyandtiminge>> <%40>>> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com]>> On>>> Behalf Of SPK>>> Saturday March 22, 2008 8:15 AM>>> astrologyandtiminge>> <%40>>> vents (AT) (DOT) <vents%40> com>>> Re: 2nd and>> 11th>>> house>>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks Anup,>>> >>> The question was not about bribes. The real>> question>>> is about 2nd and 11th house. How does KAS treat>> 11th>>> house. In traditional VA 11th lord dasha is>>> considered>>> malefic. The 2nd lord dasha has a maraka taint but>>> gives results according to association. In KAS 2nd>>> lord dasha is considered to be a headache. If the>>> person has good points for Guru in this case for>> 2nd>>> huse but low points for 11th house ( as it happens>>> in>>> this case also 8th house). How will the antara>>> traspire?>>> >>> Thanks>>> >>> Satish>>> --- "Anup. M" <dalh_1 (AT) (DOT) >>> <dalh_1%40> com> wrote:>>> >>>> Dear SPK,>>>> >>>> >>>> I still recall once Ash has explained this in>> past>>>> which i am>>>> reproducing for yout refernce as i dont remember>>>> amil number.>>>> Hope this will help u understand a little.>>>> >>>> >>>> "Acutally the key word is not bribe its not to>>>> misplay with money. Now>>>> 2nd house is important as it denotes wealth. 8th>>>> house is unearned>>>> wealth. In charts which have more planets in 2nd>>>> house, such persons>>>> must not go for easy money such as speculation>> or>> > === message truncated ===> > ________> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.> http://www.. <http://www./r/hs> com/r/hs________FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop!Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Dear Ash, Satish, Praffula and all members, Sorry for late answer, but I am in another timezone... Praffula nicely explained some points, so no need to repeat it. However... > Now, if u just take 11th house as malefic then what in essence one is > saying and correct me if I have not understood this clearly, is that > " Success is MALEFIC for 1st or SELF " . No. " Problem " with standard explanation of some principles in VA is that they look at the problem from another viewpoint. Different than from KAS viewpoint. From Laghu Parashari viewpoint 11th is actually evil, not malefic. And all this Trishdai lords, when they are karaka due to relationships, they give yoga-karaka results... like some success, position, recognition from Goverment etc. because there are positive sides. Only thing is that planet become weaker in this situation. > In Prashna, one takes 11th house to find out the success of the Query and > that is 1st. Yes, that is so. > > Dadhi, one thing, KAS and VA CANNOT be different. KAS is part and parcel > of VA only and infact things get clarified. I know, but classical VA has another viewpoint and very general explanation. So, sometimes it seems to be big difference. Maybe you remember that we talked (either on the phone or on this list...) about Gajakeshari yoga (when Ju and Mo are not together, but in kendra to each other). Every VA books glorify this yoga as very good. Excellent. It may be so... But, from the KAS perspective, it is not always so, because of the 4/10 position is not same as 1/7. > How is it possible for 11th house to be Malefic for 1st. Infact 1st house > is Root KARAK for 11th house. > A person with good health / social status etc can get good success 11th. > Or other way to say, is that Good Individuality is required for a Good Job > and health and the better the job the better will be the Income. So the > mool karak for 11th is 1st. So how can 11th be Malefic for 1st? I agree with you. Your explanation is from KAS perspective and it is correct, because upachaya theory is in play here. 11th can not be malefic for the 1st. > This is the basic irrespective of VA or KAS. This must be understood > clearly. Ok, but... your logic and explanation, just one sentence before, was from KAS perspective. > What Laghu Parasarai said is not incorrect but the context for that has to > be clearly understood. I agree. > If you talk of Raj Yog then 11th house is the success. It is the dhan > sthan from 10th house so how it can be bad? Not bad. But now you talk form VA perspective regarding Raja Yoga. And even Laghu Parashari states that 10th and 11th lords relationships are not good for any yoga. If I talk from KAS perspective, 10th is 12th from 11th. KAS law is that any planet, which is strongest in the worksheet, do not give the result for the house concerned, if 1) have any relationship with the 12th lord or 2) If gets points due to the sight of 12th lord from any house. > We must have clear understanding of Basics and why the Rishis have same > malefic and what is meant by malefic and for what house its malefic? Sure. Just to repeat that Trishdai are little bit evil, not purely malefic. all the best, Dadhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 > > You had said " 6th house from any house is not good " > > Do you mean 6th or 12th from anyhouse? Sorry for fast typing. 12th from any house is standard KAS rule. However, 6th house from any is not favorable, as brings some enmity or incompatibility. Again, from KAS viewpoint, any 6th is house E and brings growth too. all the best, Dadhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Dear Dadhi, Does that mean that if Ju and Mo are together, then it means that lord of Sag and 8th from it is Moon, is not good? On one hand Gaj Kesari Yog is good, and at the other side, 6th from Cancer is Sagittarius so Sag should not be good for Moon. This logic is not holding here. Now if u study from KAS view point which is and I REPEAT it’s the same as VA is that Karak lord is with Phal sthan lord. Karak for bhagya is Moon and Bhagya sthan lord is Guru and both are together makes one fortunate. That is Gaj Kesari Yog. This is as far as Status is concerned. From SAV view point and for timing of event, we are using Gaj Kesari Yog and we also consider so many Yogs as well, all together when we are casting SAV. This is taken from Lesson 1. Just check how Guru is distributing points of Sun. So Mo in 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th and in addition 11th and 12th from Ju is 1 bindu. So here Gaj Kesari Yog is already taken care of. From this the WS is built, so again all these along with all other yogs, like Mo in 11th from Ju (what is the VA name for that?) or Mo in 12th from Ju (So what is the VA name for this Yog?). So all these are also taken into account. So if 6th lord from any house is not good then that implies that Gaj Kesari yog should be worst but in VA u are not saying that. So here I would say that KAS is clarifying this law of VA. Rest in other mail. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of Dadhi Sunday March 23, 2008 10:00 AM Subject: 2nd and 11th house > > You had said " 6th house from any house is not good " > > Do you mean 6th or 12th from anyhouse? Sorry for fast typing. 12th from any house is standard KAS rule. However, 6th house from any is not favorable, as brings some enmity or incompatibility. Again, from KAS viewpoint, any 6th is house E and brings growth too. all the best, Dadhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Dear Satish, Prafulla, Dadhi, Anup and All, Again two different thing here, one is Lordship and other is Placement. In KAS we are separating the two and this is not clearly given to separate the 2 in VA. We have lesson 26 I believe on MF where we take the sign, but for entire timing of event, no where we are using Sign. So it becomes immaterial if 3rd, 6th and 11th lords are malefic as far as timing of event is concerned. Take Sun in Capricorn for that matter or in Libra for that matter, In Capricorn it is in 6th from Leo and in Libra it is in 3rd from Leo. In the first case i..e in Capricorn Sun’s MF is 0.4 and in Libra it is 0.5. But this sun is powerful for some matters. Actually, in VA, so many books are giving results of Sun in libra as weak spoilt, but in some cases, such a sun becomes very powereful and delivers good results. This I think everyone who has studied Jyotish for a long time might have experienced. Mostly all books of VA are giving malefic result of Such a sun or say for all planets in their neecha sthan. But neecha planets sometimes are giving excellent results, what is that? Same way, unccha planets are giving some very difficult results or worst results. Yes in some cases it gives fantastic results as well and same for debilitated planets that sometimes it gives worst results as well. Actually just on other list, someone gave a chart who had Sun in Leo in rasi in 1st house and in navamsa in Aries and in so many d charts it was in Leo as well, so many astrologers had attributed fantastic results for that Sun, however in real facts were that such a sun was the worst time for that native in his career. So it means there is a big portion that is missing. Otherwise if u directly take the results given in standard books and apply it on charts, that will not be consistent. In some charts u will find such results matching and in some u can’t find. There is no consistency. Yes, that being said, I can safely say that that missing portion is in KAS and has been preserved. When Krushnaji gives us the lesson that will become clear. Replies point wise below. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of SPK Sunday March 23, 2008 9:04 AM Subject: 2nd and 11th house Dear Ash, Prafulla, Dadhi, Anup, and All members As I mentioned this is the big diachotomy and has been troubling me for a long time. How to resolve this? 1. There is Upachaya principle. So 3 6 10 11 form any house are house of growth for that house. 2. We also know that 3, 6 , 11th lord from lagna is not a friendly lord to the lagna lord. Ash : This is considered in Lesson 26 so the MF will be low, say if 11th lord is placed in 1st then MF might become low if it is enemy. Say Libra is lagna and Sun is 11th lord placed in 1st house then MF = 0.5 KAS is considering that and at the same time also the upachaya sthan. Actually, in EACH AND EVERY analysis that u have done using KAS, one has used MF as well has upachaya sthan and maybe when they are doing that they are oblivious of this fact. Based on what I understood u have said is that u are focusing only on the sign placement and not considering upchaya sthan. So how to reconcile this? As per KAS, and again I repeat this is no different from VA, here in KAS we are using both as per my explanation above. Are we missing the context here ? Yes, I believe so. The context here is Qualty v/s Timing, and some of the Sanskrit shlokes that tie all this together and the understanding of that is either missing or incorrect and therefore all this confusion. In my opinion all the books are saying the same thing. What does growth of 1st house mean ? Do we mean only health and physical well being ? Then how come 6th house of disease be growth house for 1st? Ash : 6th house is for stomach. Actually a good and strong 6th house and Mars (nk for 6th) then a person can recover quickly from any ailment. So here 6th house is taken not just for disease but also recovery. That is like seeing glass half full. 6th house is also social status, So we say that banks can give loans to a person with good standing, so that might mean “debt”. Also credit cards, I mean have u seen the number of questions in todays day a cc company asks. First question is whether u are working?, what is your salary or income. So here 6th house is social status, then what is your income, means karak for 11th, are u paying your bills on time, so risk factor, so here they want to know about SELF, so again 1st house is A for 6th etc etc. So one short one says 6th is for disease and debt, but that is only one way of seeing it. Yes if 6th house is weak then all things like a person might fall sick often (WS timing) or person might loose job often thereby affecting his ability to get credit, as income is affected (karak for 11th) etc etc etc. So if u just go by 6th = disease and debt that might not give accurate and clear significance of 6th house. From KAS perspective how to treat 6th house ? Yes it is bad for 7th as B. How does it behave for other houses. Do we treat it as a bad for other houses as well? Ash: Satish, this I have tried to explain in so many mails. Even the WS was changed for that. Just go to H1, H2, H11, H1 and H9 for these WS, just check, for 6th lord i.e Column M11 in WS called “H1”, “H2”…..”H12” and see. So here even the contra is being considered. Yes, we are also using 6th lord for 7th house matters, i.e. SD etc for timing of events when we are studying and also we study about quality i..e when 6th lord is in 6th i.e. natural malefic in 6th house with more bindus then we are reversing the points for quality as well. This is also considered. We also are subtracting double the points for quality if power is given by 6th lord i..e either if it aspects by benefic dristi or is in 4th place from a planet with less bidus and 6th lord has more than 4 bindus so there its giving power so we take off double the points. We are considering ALL the factors and this is being done and many are not even aware that they are doing all that. Thanks Satish --- " Ash's Corner " <kas wrote: > Dear Prafulla, > > > > Malefics in 3, 6 10 and 11 are good no doubt but in > what context. That was > the first question that Krushnaji had asked when he > had started the list. > > > > Yes, even if that is understood and in what context > that has been said by > traditionalist then so many things will get clear. > > > > I had written a long post on that as well, I believe > it was to Sanjiva or > Satish. > > > > Then again, my very simple and basic question is, > what are upachaya sthan > and what is the meaning and the use of it in VA? > > > > All the seers have only said that only 3 6 10 and > 11th house are the house > of growth from any house and the rest are not. So > how can 11th house be > malefic for 1st house. > > > > My fundamental question remains unanswered still, > > > > -- If one says that 11th house is malefic for 1st > house, then what is the > meaning of upachaya sthan? > > > > What is the use of upachaya sthan in VA? Has that > been given or explained. > > > > > I think everyone is saying that upachaya means > growth, heap and prosperity, > so how can 3rd, 6th, 10th and 11th be bad from any > house? > > > > Please can you or Satish or Dadhi explain to me what > did Santhanamji mean > that 11th lord is malefic for 1st house? If he has > said that then what is > the meaning of upachaya? > > > > I think Santhanamji has also translated that 3, 6, > 10 and 11th house from > any house are the upachaya sthan. > > > > > > So why the contradiction? > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca > > _____ > > > On > Behalf Of Prafulla Gang > Sunday March 23, 2008 12:16 AM > > RE: 2nd and 11th > house > > > > Dear Ash > > One more thing from vedic astrology perspective: > > Bhavartha Ratnakar has explained for various lagna > that lords of 3/6/11 are > bad (not necessarily the houses); and if 11th lord > joins trine lord or > kendra lord (must be natural malefic) - then it > gives yoga karka > results..else it is considered bad. > > Upachaya generally are growth factors and strongly > indicates present life > karma. Native got to work for the respective > results. > > I also heard few traditionalists saying that natural > malefic in 3/6/11 > (specially if they are debilitated) are wealth > givers. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > " If you pick up a starving dog and make him > prosperous, he will not bite > you. This is the principal difference between a dog > and a man. " > > ************************************************ > > > > > kas <kas%40ashtro.ca> > > Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:39:18 -0400 > > astrologyandtiminge > <%40> > vents > > RE: 2nd and > 11th house > > > > Dear Dadhi, > > > > > > > > I am very glad that u joined in and I also invite > others to join in this > > discussion as personally I would like to get to > the root of this. > > > > > > > > Yes, Dadhi you are correct, the upachaya theory is > of prime importance in > > KAS. This upachaya has been given in each and > every VA book. I do not > > think anyone will oppose that. This is the basics. > 3, 6, 10 and 11th > > are > > special as upachaya and the meaning of that as per > Sanskrit disctionary > > is > > Heap, Growth and Prosperity. So in my opinion this > must be used by each > > and > > everyone using VA. > > > > > > > > Now, Laghu Parasari also says in the initial part > that > > > > > > > > The below has been taken from the following site. > Those with original > > texts > > can confirm this if the translation is correct. > > > > > > > > http://www.astrojyo > <http://www.astrojyoti.com/laghuparashari.htm> > ti.com/laghuparashari.htm > > > > > > > > " 2. For the enlightenment of the learned > astrologers, I compose this > > Udu-daya-Pradeep on the basis of Parashara > Hora-Shastra. > > 3. We will include the Astrological results (good > or bad) of the > > Nakshatra > > Dasha Paddhati as shown in Vimshottari System; and > do not believe in > > Ashtottari System. > > 4. The learned should make themselves familiar > with the fundamentals of > > Astrology through other works. Here only the > specific principles will be > > explained. " > > > > > > > > So here I take it that the basics and meaning of > upachaya house, if its > === message truncated === ________ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Dear Dadhi, My replies below yours in Blue. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca On Behalf Of Dadhi Sunday March 23, 2008 3:55 AM RE: 2nd and 11th house Dear Ash, Satish, Praffula and all members, Sorry for late answer, but I am in another timezone... Ash: No worries, we will wait for your reply. This mail is fantastic. Praffula nicely explained some points, so no need to repeat it. However... > Now, if u just take 11th house as malefic then what in essence one is > saying and correct me if I have not understood this clearly, is that > " Success is MALEFIC for 1st or SELF " . No. " Problem " with standard explanation of some principles in VA is that they look at the problem from another viewpoint. Different than from KAS viewpoint. Ash : What is the view point of VA and what is the View point of KAS? Can you write a bit more on that so that it becomes clear on what VA is viewing and then we can see it from KAS view point. From Laghu Parashari viewpoint 11th is actually evil, not malefic. And all this Trishdai lords, when they are karaka due to relationships, they give yoga-karaka results... like some success, position, recognition from Goverment etc. because there are positive sides. Only thing is that planet become weaker in this situation. Ash ; Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between evil and malefic? If these planets are evil then why they are giving yoga karak results when they are in a relationship? It does not make any sense. If a planet is evil, then it should spoil other planets. For example say 6th lord when it becomes samdharmi to other planets for 7th house results then even those planets are spoilt. This is standard approach. Here note I have been specific for 7th house. However when u are studying Job, event then planets SD to 11th and 3rd also become eager as they are rubbing off their eager ness and if such planet are also powerful for 6th (here u should be able to judge that if a planet other than 11th and 3rd are also powerful significators for 6th) then they can give results for 11th and 3rd lord under some conditions. So here the same 11th and 3rd lord are good for 6th house matters or other way if u are studying 11th house for income then planets SD to KARAK might give better results in their MD subject to condition. So here we are using samdharmi. Now why is this text talking about success, position and recognition only? What about marriage, health, death etc. Now, if we too in KAS talk about Yoga Karak then, 10th house itself is Karak for 3rd house. From 10th house, authority, 6th house is that of parakram, so how can parakram be bad for authority? Infact 10th is karak for parakram and Varharmira and others are ALL considering 10th lords from lagna sun and moon. So again, here on one hand persons are selectively using KARAK and some laws and at the same time they avoid these same laws for some other application. There is no consistency? Are u getting me? So if we talk of Karak and yoga karak then we are talking of lords of Kendra and kona. Or same planet that is lord of Kendra and kona. So again, here, A house and the 8th from it. Say Mars for cancer lagna, so Mars rules 10th AND 5th. Now if 8th house or 6th house is bad then how u can call Mars yogakarak? From 5th house, Mars is also lord of 6th, and same way from 10th house mars is also lord of 8th. So if u plainly go by the understanding that 6th and 8th from any house or let us stick to 6th house from any house is enemity or the lords are not friendly etc then this logic does not hold good here as well. > In Prashna, one takes 11th house to find out the success of the Query and > that is 1st. Yes, that is so. If that is so then how can 11th be bad for 1st? > > Dadhi, one thing, KAS and VA CANNOT be different. KAS is part and parcel > of VA only and infact things get clarified. I know, but classical VA has another viewpoint and very general explanation. So, sometimes it seems to be big difference. Ash : What is the view point of that one is viewing VA? I think that is not clear to me? Can you please talk a bit more, maybe things will fall in place in my mind then. Maybe you remember that we talked (either on the phone or on this list...) about Gajakeshari yoga (when Ju and Mo are not together, but in kendra to each other). Every VA books glorify this yoga as very good. Excellent. It may be so... Ash : Yes, we might have talked on phone when I was in Geneva. I have written a bit more in my other mail on Gaj Kesari yog. If 6th is bad or evil then Gaj Kesari yog should be worst and not very good right? 6th from cancer is Sag and both the lords are say conjoined then ………. Overall results must be worst. But VA is saying its very good, so there would be a contradiction right then and there. But, from the KAS perspective, it is not always so, because of the 4/10 position is not same as 1/7. Ash : Yes, also in VA the same thing is given, that 1 and 7 are opposites. The lords are never friends. They mean opposite things. They also have enmity. This is common. I do not think this is any different from what we are saying in KAS. Infact here we are differentiating that Mo and Ju in kendras are gaj kesari yog, but here we are going deeper and seeing the power of it. So if Ju is in 10th place from Mo and Ju is say with 3 bindus and Mo is with say 5 bindus then such a ju becomes very powerful due to mo giving power i.e. 4:10 and VA is calling it parasparakaraka. So all things are used and with KAS we are are able to go into further detail, so the view point is same infact with KAS u care able to go in deeper. > How is it possible for 11th house to be Malefic for 1st. Infact 1st house > is Root KARAK for 11th house. > A person with good health / social status etc can get good success 11th. > Or other way to say, is that Good Individuality is required for a Good Job > and health and the better the job the better will be the Income. So the > mool karak for 11th is 1st. So how can 11th be Malefic for 1st? I agree with you. Your explanation is from KAS perspective and it is correct, because upachaya theory is in play here. 11th can not be malefic for the 1st. Ash ; I am not clear, is VA saying that 11th is bad for 1st house from a different perspective? If so can you explain or give an explanation like I have given? i.e .an analogy so that I can relate to it. > This is the basic irrespective of VA or KAS. This must be understood > clearly. Ok, but... your logic and explanation, just one sentence before, was from KAS perspective. Ash : yes, I am saying KAS is not any different from VA, since u are talking on VA I will talk on KAS. Actually what u are saying and what I am saying are not different and I want to bridge that gap and that is my point. Dadhi, the magnitude of this must be understood. If one is not able to understand upachaya then there is no meaning of KAS. If with KAS u are getting pin point timing then it means that the theory is proper, and u have seen that applied with proper logic in many charts. Otherwise if the magnitude of upachaya is not understood then how one can understand KAS? > What Laghu Parasarai said is not incorrect but the context for that has to > be clearly understood. I agree. > If you talk of Raj Yog then 11th house is the success. It is the dhan > sthan from 10th house so how it can be bad? Not bad. But now you talk form VA perspective regarding Raja Yoga. And even Laghu Parashari states that 10th and 11th lords relationships are not good for any yoga. If I talk from KAS perspective, 10th is 12th from 11th. KAS law is that any planet, which is strongest in the worksheet, do not give the result for the house concerned, if 1) have any relationship with the 12th lord or 2) If gets points due to the sight of 12th lord from any house. Ash: KAS perspective or VA perspective, 12th house from any house is not conducive to the results of that house. That is common. Now here we separate out 12th house of the chart. That warrents a whole new discussion thread. So that is no different from VA. Now if u talk of Yogakarak and authority or work then focus is on 10th and 6th house and their ABCDE which again is upachaya so if one understand upachaya and the meaning is applied then things can be understood. 9th lord in 10th and 10th lord in 9th is dharma karma adhipathi yog, so what is the meaning of that ? As per KAS, if 9th and 10th lords are conjunct in 9th house then 10th house is loosing status and conjoined with 9th lord. Again there is a difference of that if they are in 10th house conjunct and then again in some other house. But the basic remains same that House B and 12th from it are not condusive. So just you can translate the meaning of dharma karkma adhipathi yog in detail and u will be surprised that its not any different from what I just said above. > We must have clear understanding of Basics and why the Rishis have same > malefic and what is meant by malefic and for what house its malefic? Sure. Just to repeat that Trishdai are little bit evil, not purely malefic. Ash : Again what is the difference? If evil planets conjoin yogakark then they should be spoiling the stauts but instead laghu prarasari is talking good about it why is that? all the best, Dadhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 DearAsh Kindly clarify about K A S Visual visveswaran On Behalf Of SPK Friday, March 21, 2008 4:51 PM 2nd and 11th house Dear Ash, How is 2nd and 11th house treated in KAS? 2nd is Dhana sthaan and 11th is labha sthaan. I am looking at a horoscope that has shani-rahu dasha running and next dasha will be shani-guru. Guru has high points in a ll houses except 8th and 11th. However has over 30 points in WS for 2nd house. Guru is also 2nd and 11th lord ( Kumbha lagna). In traditonal VA, 11th lord is considered malefic. The guru in the horoscope is in the 12 th house in KAS but late degrres of Sagi with Lahiri in 11th house. Guru is with moon the sixth lord in navansha. The question pertains to buying/investment etc. From VA standpoint guru antara will not be good. From KAS standpoint also dasha of 2nd lord should be cause for worries and in my opinion the investment should be avoided. Question is how does KAS treat 2nd and 11th house from standpoint of gains/money. Guru has hogh points for 5th so if one treats this a speculation it can be percieved as good, but I beleive 2nd lordship of guru should trump. If any of the learned members want to comment on this the data is 17 Mar 1937, 5:28 AM 73 E51, 18N 31 Thanks The data is --- " Ash's Corner " <kas wrote: ________ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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