How do you trust someone you don't trust?

[Guest guest]

Recently some personal events have unraveled in my life which has

caused me to loose the trust that I should have, especially for the

development and awakening of the K. Not to go into any details, but

the trust that I have lost is in the profession of medicine. Being

that " trusting " is a part of the " safeties " , these recent events are

causing conflicts with what I should be practicing. If I say I do

trust the medical community for the sake of following the " safeties "

for the K I would be breaking another one of the " safeties " which is

honesty. So how to you trust something or someone that gives you no

reason to trust? Forgiveness? I thought about forgiving, but to say

the least it is a lot harder than it may sound, especially when

negligence is the cause of loss of the trust. And then because you

don't have " trust " comes the guilt one feels for not " trusting " and

not doing what God wants us to do, which is be forgiving, loving,

and trusting by turning the other cheek.

 

I really don't know how else to ask this question but in this way,

so if you don't understand what I am asking, tell me or ask me, then

I will try to explain it. I just really need the groups help on this

one.

[Guest guest]

you have to trust God is doing everything for the best. If you don't

trust your Doctor, maybe get a second opinion.

 

, " Katherine "

<katsam19 wrote:

>

> Recently some personal events have unraveled in my life which has

> caused me to loose the trust that I should have, especially for the

> development and awakening of the K. Not to go into any details, but

> the trust that I have lost is in the profession of medicine. Being

> that " trusting " is a part of the " safeties " , these recent events are

> causing conflicts with what I should be practicing. If I say I do

> trust the medical community for the sake of following the " safeties "

> for the K I would be breaking another one of the " safeties " which is

> honesty. So how to you trust something or someone that gives you no

> reason to trust? Forgiveness? I thought about forgiving, but to say

> the least it is a lot harder than it may sound, especially when

> negligence is the cause of loss of the trust. And then because you

> don't have " trust " comes the guilt one feels for not " trusting " and

> not doing what God wants us to do, which is be forgiving, loving,

> and trusting by turning the other cheek.

>

> I really don't know how else to ask this question but in this way,

> so if you don't understand what I am asking, tell me or ask me, then

> I will try to explain it. I just really need the groups help on this

> one.

>

[Guest guest]

Katherine,

I believe I understand your point. Trust; what is it? Is it trust within

yourself or others. To hold an amplitude of forgiveness is to ask God

for forgiveness first. The Divine will guide you to where you need to

be. Be choosy of who you have in your honorable circle. Many will fail

to show you honesty but it is within your heart to forgive the

carelessness of mankind, as we are not perfect in anyway. You will not

be perfect either, you will wrong people in your lifetime, I'm sure by

mistake, and you would ask for forgiveness of them. Choose a life full

of those who less likely to fail you so it will be easier to forgive and

honestly do so without guilt.

~I asked Shakti/Divine to help write this~

With Love

lisa

 

Katherine wrote:

>

> Recently some personal events have unraveled in my life which has

> caused me to loose the trust that I should have, especially for the

> development and awakening of the K. Not to go into any details, but

> the trust that I have lost is in the profession of medicine. Being

> that " trusting " is a part of the " safeties " , these recent events are

> causing conflicts with what I should be practicing. If I say I do

> trust the medical community for the sake of following the " safeties "

> for the K I would be breaking another one of the " safeties " which is

> honesty. So how to you trust something or someone that gives you no

> reason to trust? Forgiveness? I thought about forgiving, but to say

> the least it is a lot harder than it may sound, especially when

> negligence is the cause of loss of the trust. And then because you

> don't have " trust " comes the guilt one feels for not " trusting " and

> not doing what God wants us to do, which is be forgiving, loving,

> and trusting by turning the other cheek.

>

> I really don't know how else to ask this question but in this way,

> so if you don't understand what I am asking, tell me or ask me, then

> I will try to explain it. I just really need the groups help on this

> one.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Katherine, Trusting is very important, so let us look at the qualities of what trust can be inside the Kundalini. The doctors are just people with a title and a specific degree of study in a certain area. They make mistakes. We all do. So lets remember that they are as deserving of forgiveness and love and respect as much as the mailman or the grocer or the police person is. But sometimes their mistakes can be hurtful in ways that go far beyond cutting someone off in traffic. Sometimes either through ignorance, laziness or incompetence the doctors can have a very unfortunate effect upon your well being. They will say this and they will say that to protect their professional ego, so you must use your discernment in order to feel your way through this

maze. Getting as much information about the illness if you know it or the condition or even the suspected ones and learning about the protocols of control or recovery can be a very important tool that can give you quite a bit of reassurance and comfort as YOU determine the course of treatment for you. Remember to be kind and generous in your relations with others and this includes the doctors. Being kind and generous does not mean believing everything they say. It means that in this type of scenario you kindly thank them for the diagnosis and decide ON YOUR OWN whether or not you agree and whether or not you will proceed with the doctors recommendation. No judgment placed on the doctor, and no belief in what is expressed by them unless you feel on the spot that this is an obvious thing and both of you are on the same page. Or your research comes to a similar conclusion. You can trust the

doctor to be able to go as far as their training, experience,personal patience and personal issues will allow them to go. Remember doctors are people and they have personal issues that they bring to work. Many smoke and drink to much caffeine. This can have an affect on their thinking and level of consciousness and degree of patience they extend. Many have sour personal lives that can impair their decisions. Many are very truly helpful and generous and talented people. Doctors are also trained to not become emotionally attached to outcomes or specific patients. They do anyway but they are trained that this is inappropriate. So as they remove this aspect of caring about you, a certain degree of selfishness in regards to your treatment is required of you. So in essence you take charge. Use your wisdom and self-motivation for acquiring the needed information to make the best decision for yourself because you are the person who will

have to live with it. Not the doctor. This is showing trust. Trusting isn't always a blind obedience test. It is trusting that you can get the information you need, without fear, and with as much comfort as you can expect inside the conditions that are presenting. This is trusting yourself and trusting the doctor. A condition of strength and love inside a confusing issue will help you resolve the issue. Remember that politeness and confidence go along way with people. So within the actions of forgiveness and discernment, one can get second opinions from those that they do trust even when confined to a certain system like the military. If the doctor examines you and tell you that you have a certain ailment, you can ask how that particular diagnosis was reached. Not in a challenging way but in a self responsible way that allows the doctor to understand that you are the person that will make the

decision that will count and the doctor is a valued source of information. If you already know the diagnosis you can begin your research into the condition and compare the results of your findings with the doctors then decide how you wish your treatment to proceed. This will accomplish a level of personal responsibility and trust in yourself first and if the diagnosis fits for the doctor as well. Trusting in self and God + trusting in doctors information (perhaps) = Information to help you come to your own assesment. - my take on it -

[Guest guest]

As always thank you Chrism. It isn't that I don't like them or that I

feel like being angry with them, I know they aren't perfect anymore

than I am and I certainly am not perfect by any means. I would never

be ugly to them or treat them badly. I want to trust them and like

you said some are very talented and I have known a few in my time who

were very talented and very compassionate. Yet sometimes when you ask

for a second opinion they make you feel as if you are saying they

don't know what they are doing and it offends them. If you do

research a diagnosis they make you feel like the information that you

have read isn't true or doesn't apply to your situation. When you

seek a second opinion it seems like the other doctor doesn't want to

go against his Colleague. I know that they don't make mistakes on

purpose, or at least I hope they don't. It is just that sometimes I

believe it is an ego trip for them, a status of great importance. I

am working on forgiving and trying to trust each individual one. I am

not angry, just a bit saddened! I know this must sound crazy, but

they are my brothers and sisters and I love them as such, I have just

somehow allowed myself to loose trust in them and have lost my way in

forgiving. I have spent the better part of the day learning to be

forgiving despite their mistakes. I just hope they see their mistakes

whether they own up to them or not and try to see that acting hastily

can cause long term effects. I just hope that they see that their way

is not the only way. I am praying for them that they are more

cautious with not as much the diagnosis of the problem, but how to

treat the problem.

 

I have learned that there are many reasons why I have been led down

this path to a greater spirituality and I know that it is a

purposeful learning experience purposefully intended for me to

experience. As it goes God does not put on you more than you can

handle. He does things for a reason whether I understand that reason

or not.

 

Just for the record, this is probably the calmest I have ever been

based on the circumstances than I have ever been and I know without a

doubt that it is due to the choice I have made in becoming closer to

God and to know him more intimately His knowledge and love. I feel

rather peaceful, just concerned with my doubt of trust in the doctors

I have been experiencing today.

 

Love,

Katherine

 

 

, chrism

<> wrote:

>

> Hello Katherine,

> Trusting is very important, so let us look

at the qualities of what trust can be inside the Kundalini.

>

> The doctors are just people with a title and a specific degree of

study in a certain area. They make mistakes. We all do. So lets

remember that they are as deserving of forgiveness and love and

respect as much as the mailman or the grocer or the police person is.

>

> But sometimes their mistakes can be hurtful in ways that go far

beyond cutting someone off in traffic. Sometimes either through

ignorance, laziness or incompetence the doctors can have a very

unfortunate effect upon your well being. They will say this and they

will say that to protect their professional ego, so you must use your

discernment in order to feel your way through this maze. Getting as

much information about the illness if you know it or the condition or

even the suspected ones and learning about the protocols of control

or recovery can be a very important tool that can give you quite a

bit of reassurance and comfort as YOU determine the course of

treatment for you.

>

>

> Remember to be kind and generous in your relations with others

and this includes the doctors. Being kind and generous does not mean

believing everything they say. It means that in this type of scenario

you kindly thank them for the diagnosis and decide ON YOUR OWN

whether or not you agree and whether or not you will proceed with the

doctors recommendation. No judgment placed on the doctor, and no

belief in what is expressed by them unless you feel on the spot that

this is an obvious thing and both of you are on the same page. Or

your research comes to a similar conclusion.

>

> You can trust the doctor to be able to go as far as their

training, experience,personal patience and personal issues will allow

them to go. Remember doctors are people and they have personal issues

that they bring to work. Many smoke and drink to much caffeine. This

can have an affect on their thinking and level of consciousness and

degree of patience they extend. Many have sour personal lives that

can impair their decisions. Many are very truly helpful and generous

and talented people.

>

> Doctors are also trained to not become emotionally attached to

outcomes or specific patients. They do anyway but they are trained

that this is inappropriate. So as they remove this aspect of caring

about you, a certain degree of selfishness in regards to your

treatment is required of you. So in essence you take charge. Use your

wisdom and self-motivation for acquiring the needed information to

make the best decision for yourself because you are the person who

will have to live with it. Not the doctor.

>

> This is showing trust. Trusting isn't always a blind obedience

test. It is trusting that you can get the information you need,

without fear, and with as much comfort as you can expect inside the

conditions that are presenting. This is trusting yourself and

trusting the doctor. A condition of strength and love inside a

confusing issue will help you resolve the issue. Remember that

politeness and confidence go along way with people.

>

> So within the actions of forgiveness and discernment, one can get

second opinions from those that they do trust even when confined to a

certain system like the military. If the doctor examines you and tell

you that you have a certain ailment, you can ask how that particular

diagnosis was reached. Not in a challenging way but in a self

responsible way that allows the doctor to understand that you are the

person that will make the decision that will count and the doctor is

a valued source of information. If you already know the diagnosis you

can begin your research into the condition and compare the results of

your findings with the doctors then decide how you wish your

treatment to proceed.

>

> This will accomplish a level of personal responsibility and trust

in yourself first and if the diagnosis fits for the doctor as well.

Trusting in self and God + trusting in doctors information (perhaps)

= Information to help you come to your own assesment. - my take on

it -

>

[Guest guest]

Well they will just have to get over their hurt feelings regarding the second opinion. You will also have to be strong and find a doctor who will listen to you seriously about your researches. If they don't listen find another. Even if you have to go out of pocket. Just my take Katherine -

[Guest guest]

Dear Katherine,

I can only get a sense of what you are going through,

but I understand mistrust and pain. It all comes from

within, the only binds that exist are the ones " we "

create.

I recommend a meditation for non judgement and

release.

You need to learn to not judge life and the things

that happen beyond our seeming control.

The world is perfect all of the time, the light and

the shade. It is only through judgement of life that

suffering and seperation occurs, leading to confusion.

All just an illusion of the ego, mind and emotions.

Really God wants you to understand that, remember the

vision you had, God told you that he was taking care

of everything, you felt it, remember that. Everything

is perfect as God is everything.

You can just let go.

 

Sit down, quiet your mind, ask whatever deity you wish

to help you in your letting go and surrender of all

judgement and feelings of seperation.

Imagine giving it as a gift to God, if you wish, see

it like a wrapped gift, with a big ribbon on it,

actually raise your hands up and say, Here, I give

this to you now as my gift. And feel the love of God

fill your heart. Cry if you feel so moved to. Say

thankyou and fill your heart with gratitude and now

that you are truely loved.

 

Hope this is of some help, it has worked wonders for

me.

Even if it feels hard at the beginning it's only due

to the fear of letting go, keep at it and it works.

 

Much love to you Wonderful Katherine x x x

 

 

--- Katherine <katsam19 wrote:

 

> Recently some personal events have unraveled in my

> life which has

> caused me to loose the trust that I should have,

> especially for the

> development and awakening of the K. Not to go into

> any details, but

> the trust that I have lost is in the profession of

> medicine. Being

> that " trusting " is a part of the " safeties " , these

> recent events are

> causing conflicts with what I should be practicing.

> If I say I do

> trust the medical community for the sake of

> following the " safeties "

> for the K I would be breaking another one of the

> " safeties " which is

> honesty. So how to you trust something or someone

> that gives you no

> reason to trust? Forgiveness? I thought about

> forgiving, but to say

> the least it is a lot harder than it may sound,

> especially when

> negligence is the cause of loss of the trust. And

> then because you

> don't have " trust " comes the guilt one feels for not

> " trusting " and

> not doing what God wants us to do, which is be

> forgiving, loving,

> and trusting by turning the other cheek.

>

> I really don't know how else to ask this question

> but in this way,

> so if you don't understand what I am asking, tell me

> or ask me, then

> I will try to explain it. I just really need the

> groups help on this

> one.

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

First, be 'Trust-worthy'.

 

Second, find the combination of character/authenticity AND competence.

 

Then you can trust.

 

I know people who are not trustworthy themselves and no amount of

character or competence in the other party can give them trust.

 

Best to you,

Troy

 

 

> I really don't know how else to ask this question but in this way,

> so if you don't understand what I am asking, tell me or ask me, then

> I will try to explain it. I just really need the groups help on this

> one.

>

[Guest guest]

You are so right Chrism. Thank you!

 

Love,

Katherine

<> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:19:14 AMRe: Re: How do you trust someone you don't trust?

 

Well they will just have to get over their hurt feelings regarding the second opinion. You will also have to be strong and find a doctor who will listen to you seriously about your researches. If they don't listen find another. Even if you have to go out of pocket. Just my take Katherine -

 

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[Guest guest]

Thank you Elektra for your thoughtful words. I really do appreciate your opinion and your support. You are a terrific person.

 

Love,

Katherine

Elektra Fire <elektra.fire Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:21:43 AMRe: How do you trust someone you don't trust?

 

Dear Katherine,I can only get a sense of what you are going through,but I understand mistrust and pain. It all comes fromwithin, the only binds that exist are the ones "we"create. I recommend a meditation for non judgement andrelease.You need to learn to not judge life and the thingsthat happen beyond our seeming control.The world is perfect all of the time, the light andthe shade. It is only through judgement of life thatsuffering and seperation occurs, leading to confusion.All just an illusion of the ego, mind and emotions.Really God wants you to understand that, remember thevision you had, God told you that he was taking careof everything, you felt it, remember that. Everythingis perfect as God is everything.You can just let go.Sit down, quiet your mind, ask whatever deity you wishto help you in your letting go and surrender of alljudgement and feelings of seperation.Imagine giving

it as a gift to God, if you wish, seeit like a wrapped gift, with a big ribbon on it,actually raise your hands up and say, Here, I givethis to you now as my gift. And feel the love of Godfill your heart. Cry if you feel so moved to. Saythankyou and fill your heart with gratitude and nowthat you are truely loved.Hope this is of some help, it has worked wonders forme.Even if it feels hard at the beginning it's only dueto the fear of letting go, keep at it and it works.Much love to you Wonderful Katherine x x x--- Katherine <katsam19 > wrote:> Recently some personal events have unraveled in my> life which has > caused me to loose the trust that I should have,> especially for the > development and awakening of the K. Not to go into> any details, but > the trust that I have lost is

in the profession of> medicine. Being > that "trusting" is a part of the "safeties", these> recent events are > causing conflicts with what I should be practicing.> If I say I do > trust the medical community for the sake of> following the "safeties" > for the K I would be breaking another one of the> "safeties" which is > honesty. So how to you trust something or someone> that gives you no > reason to trust? Forgiveness? I thought about> forgiving, but to say > the least it is a lot harder than it may sound,> especially when > negligence is the cause of loss of the trust. And> then because you > don't have "trust" comes the guilt one feels for not> "trusting" and > not doing what God wants us to do, which is be> forgiving, loving, > and trusting by turning the other cheek. > > I really don't know how else

to ask this question> but in this way, > so if you don't understand what I am asking, tell me> or ask me, then > I will try to explain it. I just really need the> groups help on this > one.> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you bondzai, you are a kind person.

 

Love,

Katherine

bondzai <bondzai Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 11:54:27 AM Re: How do you trust someone you don't trust?

 

you have to trust God is doing everything for the best. If you don'ttrust your Doctor, maybe get a second opinion.Kundalini-Awakening -Systems- 1 , "Katherine"<katsam19@.. .> wrote:>> Recently some personal events have unraveled in my life which has > caused me to loose the trust that I should have, especially for the > development and awakening of the K. Not to go into any details, but > the trust that I have lost is in the profession of medicine. Being > that "trusting" is a part of the "safeties", these recent events are > causing conflicts with what I should be practicing. If I say I do > trust the medical community for the sake of following the "safeties" > for the K I would be breaking another one of the "safeties" which is > honesty. So how to you trust

something or someone that gives you no > reason to trust? Forgiveness? I thought about forgiving, but to say > the least it is a lot harder than it may sound, especially when > negligence is the cause of loss of the trust. And then because you > don't have "trust" comes the guilt one feels for not "trusting" and > not doing what God wants us to do, which is be forgiving, loving, > and trusting by turning the other cheek. > > I really don't know how else to ask this question but in this way, > so if you don't understand what I am asking, tell me or ask me, then > I will try to explain it. I just really need the groups help on this > one.>

 

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[Guest guest]

hi Katherine,

Hope I wasn't to off point....

I just find that when I change something within, it

always filters in to my reality. When something seems

wrong in the real world I try to reflect what that

means for me inwardly.

 

I know you know what to do , I have complete faith in

you Katherine , you are an amazing person with energy

beaming out in all directions. Get that second

opinion, have fun while doing it.

 

Love u, Elektra x x x

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much Elektra. The reason I posted it in the first place is that I had hit a down moment! My dad has had cancer 4 times. Once about 7 years ago then he was cleared and diagnosed cancer free after 5 years, that was December of 2004, then in January 2005 he was diagnosed once again with prostate cancer and then in March 2005 of adrenal gland cancer totally unrelated to the prostate cancer, but connected to the lung cancer he had. That cancer spread to the kidney, the liver, and to the vena cava. He had had surgery on the lung cancer, but the doctors opted not to provide my dad with the choice of chemo or radiation so because of that that cancer spread to the adrenal gland. Then in July 2006 he had another surgery to remove the cancer from

the adrenal gland, kidney, and so forth, there was also an enlarged lymph node. Anyway, the doctors were to remove the cancer but didn't find any when they went in. They didn't check the lymph node like they were supposed to. They took his gall bladder saying it was better to take it than leave it because of his age, he is 66, and they also took the adrenal gland even though it looked fine. They said he was cancer free. Their reasoning for that was they took it because of the fact that was where the cancer had deposited from the lungs and they felt it was to his benefit for precaution. My dad has been nothing but sick and I mean very sick since the surgery. He was just diagnosed again with cancer in his lymph node that was enlarged a long time ago. They also found another enlarged lymph node up around his heart although it isn't as large as the one near his kidney he had cancer on. Anyway, just accepting the fact that he is dieing left me vulnerable yesterday. He has been

in the hospital for the last week and has just come home with a large bag of medication to help with the pain. Anyway, that is and was the reason for the post even though I go through strong spells of not being able to trust what they say or their recommendations, etc.

 

As I said thank you! I love you Elektra and thanks for the really kind words you said about me! They are a comfort.

 

Love, Katherine

Elektra Fire <elektra.fire Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 10:42:49 PMRe: How do you trust someone you don't trust?

 

hi Katherine,Hope I wasn't to off point.... :)I just find that when I change something within, italways filters in to my reality. When something seemswrong in the real world I try to reflect what thatmeans for me inwardly.I know you know what to do , I have complete faith inyou Katherine , you are an amazing person with energybeaming out in all directions. Get that secondopinion, have fun while doing it.Love u, Elektra x x x Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Katherine

 

I am not wondering why you have trouble trusting the

medical profession. I wouldn't judge all by what the

one does. The medical teem that treated your father

had one " human " in charge, and to be human is to

be imperfect.

 

I will prayer for you and your father

 

Peace and love to you

Stephen O.

(SilverCloud)

 

Location: Ontario, Canada.

 

, Katherine Miller

<katsam19 wrote:

>

> Thank you so much Elektra. The reason I posted it in the first place

is that I had hit a down moment! My dad has had cancer 4 times. Once

about 7 years ago then he was cleared and diagnosed cancer free after

5 years, that was December of 2004, then in January 2005 he was

diagnosed once again with prostate cancer and then in March 2005 of

adrenal gland cancer totally unrelated to the prostate cancer, but

connected to the lung cancer he had. That cancer spread to the kidney,

the liver, and to the vena cava. He had had surgery on the lung

cancer, but the doctors opted not to provide my dad with the choice of

chemo or radiation so because of that that cancer spread to the

adrenal gland. Then in July 2006 he had another surgery to remove the

cancer from the adrenal gland, kidney, and so forth, there was also an

enlarged lymph node. Anyway, the doctors were to remove the cancer but

didn't find any when they went in. They didn't check the lymph node

like they were supposed to.

> They took his gall bladder saying it was better to take it than

leave it because of his age, he is 66, and they also took the adrenal

gland even though it looked fine. They said he was cancer free. Their

reasoning for that was they took it because of the fact that was where

the cancer had deposited from the lungs and they felt it was to his

benefit for precaution. My dad has been nothing but sick and I mean

very sick since the surgery. He was just diagnosed again with cancer

in his lymph node that was enlarged a long time ago. They also found

another enlarged lymph node up around his heart although it isn't as

large as the one near his kidney he had cancer on. Anyway, just

accepting the fact that he is dieing left me vulnerable yesterday. He

has been in the hospital for the last week and has just come home with

a large bag of medication to help with the pain. Anyway, that is and

was the reason for the post even though I go through strong spells of

not being able to trust

> what they say or their recommendations, etc.

>

> As I said thank you! I love you Elektra and thanks for the really

kind words you said about me! They are a comfort.

>

> Love, Katherine

>

>

>

> Elektra Fire <elektra.fire

>

> Saturday, November 11, 2006 10:42:49 PM

> Re: How do you trust

someone you don't trust?

>

> hi Katherine,

> Hope I wasn't to off point....

> I just find that when I change something within, it

> always filters in to my reality. When something seems

> wrong in the real world I try to reflect what that

> means for me inwardly.

>

> I know you know what to do , I have complete faith in

> you Katherine , you are an amazing person with energy

> beaming out in all directions. Get that second

> opinion, have fun while doing it.

>

> Love u, Elektra x x x

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger

..

>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________\

____

>

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta.

> http://new.mail.

>