Spontaneous Awakening is a Myth, Awareness is a growing - betsy

October 1, 2007

To all readers,

I apologize for having to take such a stringent and

forceful approach with Betsy. Please understand this isnt the first

that we have communicated about her obstinant absolutist opinions

and statements with regards to the Kundalini and a stronger approach

may help her to understand. I do not usually take this route but

sometimes it is needed. - chrism

Yes Betsy we have had this conversation before. And you express

yourself well which is why it is needed to help untangle some of

what it is you say that those who are impressed with your elocution

will not be consigned to understand an awakening as a process devoid

of individual expression. Kundalini a myriad of format and

expression..

You say - again - an acorn always becomes an Oak Tree. And yes a

human fetus will always become a human being. This doesn't mean the

Kundalini is a pattern that emulates the functions of genetics. Much

more is brought into the equation. Because " you " have experienced an

activation of Kundalini in a specific way doesn't mean that your

experience is the " rule " of Kundalini activation.

There is a broad spectrum of activations that do NOT follow your

model. You just don't seem to accept that. Perhaps this is an ego

challenge for you to realize that you are not THE Kundalini model

that authenticates all others, though you seem to cling to this

idea.

Betsy:

If you are considering it to be the event

> when one realizes that they are more than their self-image, then

one

> could state that people have spontaneous awakenings. So one might

> also call this the start of spirituality - I have no problem with

this.

Well " IF " that is what you are feeling an awakening to be then we

are not communicating about the same thing at all.

Why are you going off into this direction? Betsy this group is about

KUNDALINI AWAKENING not a beginning recognition of spirituality.

Though for some this comes WITH a Kundalini awakening.

Betsy:

I even stated the same in my article, there are profound events

> that happen with deep surrenders, and in the past I called these

> the same. I change that for several reasons and one is because

> I realize that spontaneous isn't accurate. There is always a cause

> for something; to call it spontaneous makes it seem like a

miracle,

Deep surrender isn't a necessity for a Kundalini event to

initialize. It is necessary for it to mature safely. Spontaneity is

a correct description of a sudden on rush of Kundalini to a person

not looking for it. It can happen in seconds and minutes and it can

be quite immediate. BUT it didn't happen that way for you, so you

have no reference for that kind of activity. Just because you Betsy

have not experienced Kundalini in a sudden onslaught of symptom and

phenomena does not make it an impossible or improbable condition for

OTHERS to experience.

Your experience is not the only way to experience the Kundalini. Yes

I know you are the queen of kriyas. And in the past you have felt

that you should be seen as an " authority " on that subject. You have

in fact expressed frustration that you are not recognized as such.

So here you are once again. But this time it is the authenticity of

the awakening process and awareness as others experience it that you

attack. Because they have experience outside of your own, you are

here once again to push your personal agenda and though your weaving

has improved your message is the same. It's all about " you " Betsy

and your need to be seen as an authority. Which may occur when you

can include the veracity of other peoples experiences.

Same with the miraculous. Until you Betsy have an experience with a

miracle you will not understand what it is you dismiss with such a

cavalier attitude towards it. You are like a child that can't

believe something until they experience it themselves, having

absolutely no trust in the experiences of others. Then if that

experience finally reaches you well then your story changes. If it

doesn't you continue to guide others into your own limited

experience. There by causing them doubts and perhaps damage when

their experience becomes different than yours.

This is the damage you cause. It is like basing a lie in truth for

the lie to be swallowed with greater ease. Yet you do it from the

position of " some " experience and belittling and casting doubt upon

the experiences of others because they do not fit your paradigm.

Betsy:

putting into the clouds of spirituality and unknown reasons not

> allowing to see the reason for the awakening came from inside

> the person themselves. Awakenings or rises in awareness happen

> when the personality lets go of clinging to itself. And I don't

like

> 'awakening' mostly because people see it as finite and the danger

> with this is that they stop, thinking they are done when they

experience

> these profound openings.

Awakening of the Kundalini will come from many different locations

and stimulus. And you are a blessed example of how that activity

has further to go. So as you continue to " cling " to yourself in

this regard please consider the possibility that you are not done

either. We will wait to see what your developments cause you to

change in your assessment of what awakening is about if you indeed

allow yourself to reach that far.

Betsy:

So the bottom line is I guess you don't accept that awareness is a

> growing process and that we are growing. This defies all that I

observe

> about myself and the things growing around me, evolution in other

words.

Yes Betsy you are guessing. You project upon me your own conclusions

about what you " guess " I think. This should be a red flag for you.

You are projecting on me and on everyone your own little version of

your special reality. Foisting it off as incontrovertible fact. The

pitfall of the absolutist.

I have never indicated that awareness was not a growing process.

Indeed I recognize that the entire awakening platform is a growing

process and I indicate many times that " slow is good " for this very

reason.

If this defies all that you observe about yourself then perhaps it

is time that you looked at someone other than yourself.

Betsy:

The thing I think people might not understand about it is that we

> are not split. We are not 'higher awareness' and also the ego.

> We are one body, one person who has grown to be what we

> are today. What we are today has to do with all that came before,

> we are what we are.

Before Kundalini or a similar event occurs Betsy we are indeed

split. We are higher awareness and ego. Mostly ego. This is how we

are able to differentiate between the two when a Kundalini event

occurs and in some cases before that kind of an event occurs. Yes we

reside in the single body. We are not just the body Betsy. There is

consciousness behind the eyes that animates the body. And to say

that we are what we are is just stating the obvious.

Betsy:

We can't jump out of our personality in an instant of recognition,

> because we are it. We can only let go of our clinging on it, and

> this takes its time. It is a dropping, a letting go, a dissolving,

> a displacement and in the space opened by the dropping

> awareness fills in.

We change with the recognition Betsy. By that change we see

ourselves in a different way. This may be a complete and distinct

difference from the personality we were before the event, to the one

who is now awakened. It can be a stunning change and far outside of

the previously expressed personality. Miraculous even.

With a spontaneous Kundalini awakening the awareness of what is

reality has just - in an instant - undergone a complete change. This

didn't happen for you so you don't know about it, but it does

happen. And to those it happens to they are quite changed - in the

instant -from the experience.

This is another example of the restrictions you put into the

Kundalini equation based on your lack of experience in that area of

the Kundalini expression.

Only after that initial experience do we come into the understanding

that yes the little (i) needs to be given some discipline. And

that " The Higher Aspects " of who we are now need to become the

dominant aspect of the personality. This is how the safeties work.

Yes, I know you do not practice them. No kidding.

Betsy:

Surrender is surrender, you either are doing it or you are not

> doing it. I know you think this is absolute for me to express this

and

> it is, there is no question about it. Once you know for sure what

> surrender is then you can state this matter of fact. There is no

other

> form of expression for it although one might try different ways to

> do it and there are many interpretations about what surrender

might be,

> until one is sure about what it is and how to do it. This happens

when

> one's awareness is high enough to know the difference.

Your absolutism is an example of your immaturity in these areas. A

scorched earth approach. A way of escaping your fear by molding your

reasoning into a format that is explainable for you and empowering

to you as an agent of " the only authentic way. " A position of

denial. And by teaching it to others you surround yourself with

company to stave of the glowing eyes in the dark.

But you only avoid it Betsy. It will still come for you. It is

indeed coming for you now. And no matter how you couch your

experience in well explained formats you will still, have to face

them. Your fears do not care about how reasonable your explanation

to yourself and others is. Or about how authentic you feel you are.

Or how well you write. This is the one improvement I have noticed in

you Betsy.

Surrender takes many forms. At first it is a foreign concept to many

and so slow approaches are best. Forgiving and gratitude and love

help this to strengthen. Surrender is also a process and to cut it

into your expression of doing it or not is another display of

ignorance and indicates a lack of the very quality you claim to

understand.

When the ability to surrender is attained it isn't just to the

process it is to all personal preconceptions of what and how that

process will express. This is why I am saying that though your way

is good for you it isn't the one and only way that is experienced.

You lose your desire to cling to your own little world of

expectation and open to the larger view. I hope you are able to

experience this Betsy. - chrism

October 1, 2007

Chrism: To all readers,

I apologize for having to take such a stringent and

forceful approach with Betsy. Please understand this isnt the first

that we have communicated about her obstinant absolutist opinions

and statements with regards to the Kundalini and a stronger approach

may help her to understand. I do not usually take this route but

sometimes it is needed.

Chrism, why is there this strong need in you to take

a strong and foreceful approach with me? Anyone can go back

and read the article I posted and my second reply to you

and I doubt they will see the need for such attacks and

accusations which are now coming out of you. Your attack as

far as I can see is unwarrented and unprovoked.

You have indeed taken all to a personal level painting your picture

of me and telling all your readers how much of a fake I am, etc.

And I see how it works here, all of your readers will be quiet,

not daring to respond to me or the essence of the article, because

if they do they might upset the master who has spoken and made

the interpretation for everybody. Everyone is so comfy and cosy

and friendly here that they are afraid that to speak their own mind,

they might get kicked out of the group and/or lose the love of their

dear guru. Or it might be that if they speak their own mind then

they will have to suffer the kind of abuse you are now dishing out

to me.

Betsy

October 1, 2007

Wow Betsy, you're really way off in left field on this

one.

Love, dhyana

--- betsy <ystebanar wrote:

> And I see how it works here, all of your readers

> will be quiet,

> not daring to respond to me or the essence of the

> article, because

> if they do they might upset the master who has

> spoken and made

> the interpretation for everybody. Everyone is so

> comfy and cosy

> and friendly here that they are afraid that to speak

> their own mind,

> they might get kicked out of the group and/or lose

> the love of their

> dear guru. Or it might be that if they speak their

> own mind then

> they will have to suffer the kind of abuse you are

> now dishing out

> to me.

> Betsy

>

______________________________\

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October 1, 2007

Wow Betsy! That is quite an assumption to make don't you think? Some don't

respond, as we don't have to respond if we wish not to. But in love, I think I

need to step in and this point and ask you not to make assumptions, at least for

me.

Love and Light, and MUCH peace to you dear friend,

Leslie

<<And I see how it works here, all of your readers will be quiet,

not daring to respond to me or the essence of the article, because

if they do they might upset the master who has spoken and made

the interpretation for everybody. Everyone is so comfy and cosy

and friendly here that they are afraid that to speak their own mind,

they might get kicked out of the group and/or lose the love of their

dear guru. Or it might be that if they speak their own mind then

they will have to suffer the kind of abuse you are now dishing out

to me.

betsy <ystebanar wrote: