On Apprenticeship ...

October 20, 2007

To All,

I have been thinking - long and hard - about Chrism's position on

what he believes is necessary for me to enter into Apprenticeship.

Chrism said -

" If Kundalini is infusing and causing hyperthyroidism and you

block that expression by taking a drug that thwarts that expression by

artificially inserting an agent of control, a blockage can develop.

This is the nexus of many of the choices that sometimes need to be

made and which once again come under the heading of surrender. "

" All of the symptoms you have just mentioned are Kundalini. So now you

have the choice to hear the fear teachings and warnings from the MD's

and respond to it or not. "

In order to come to a decision about the Apprenticeship, and what it

would mean for me, I decided to get another learned opinion. I went

to " Kundalini Support " (http://kundalinisupport.net/) , one of the

web sites of an organization established by Dorothy Walters, Ph.D.,

Lawrence Edwards, Ph.D., LMHC, and others, who have a wonderful

reputation, as well as excellent credentials.

In her comments on feeling that you have " lost " the Goddess, or being

concerned that your Path seems to have stalled, Dr. Walters said

this -

" I think we all feel this anxiety when " it " (Kundalini) seems to

disappear. I have found (over the period of 25 years) that it always

comes back, no matter how long it " goes away. " Often one needs to

set aside time for special practice, to invite the Beloved back into

your life, for it to reactivate. " It " is full of surprises, and will

reawaken quite unexpectedly at times. "

As for the matter of stopping all medications, in order to progress

further, Dr. Walters said -

" There are also very rare but attention grabbing instances of people

getting rashes, diarrhea, and various painful conditions, food

sensitivities or allergies, and the manifestation of latent, karmicly

held diseases or disorders surfacing to be released.

ANY KRIYA, PHYSICAL OR MENTAL/EMOTIONAL, THAT MAY HAVE MEDICAL,

NEUROLOGICAL OR PSYCHIATRIC SIGNIFICANCE SHOULD BE CHECKED OUT BY THE

APPROPRIATE HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS. I've seen cases where someone

dismissed a symptom as a kriya and it turned out to the symptom of a

medical or psychiatric disorder like high blood pressure, diabetes,

bipolar disorder, etc. It's always worth having such things checked

out medically even if it is only to rule out a possible problem.

I've worked with individuals who had to take medications to calm

things down, including anti-psychotics, in order to remain

functional. When I was helping people who came to Baba's ashram in

Ganeshpuri, India and the Shakti was so intense they lost touch with

reality and became psychotic, in very, very rare instances physicians

would prescribe anti-psychotic medication to help stabilize the

individual. Baba said it was fine, that Shakti took the form of

medications to help people maintain their mental balance.

Maintaining balance and integration is extremely important. In many

ways the disciplines of yoga build the strength of the ego to contain

greater energies even while we shift our identification away from

being bound by the ego. But the ego as a strong vehicle for

consciousness and functioning in the world remains intact. It

becomes the servant rather that the master. "

In order to remain functional, at this time, I need to keep all of

those terrible symptoms away. Obviously, Dr. Walters would allow me

that.

However, I needed one more opinion. I sent Dr. Edwards a letter,

giving him all of the facts, and he wrote me back, and said -

Dear Pam,

Much of what passes for " Kundalini " yoga isn't. I don't know what

this person teaches, but unless they are willing to take full

responsibility medically and legally for your wellbeing, as your

doctors are, then I wouldn't even begin to put my trust in them.

Follow your doctor's advice. Kundalini is the creative power of the

Divine, Shakti, and will not be thwarted by what you need medically.

Swami Muktananda, one of the greatest true Kundalini masters, whom I

served and studied under for years, used to say that medications that

allowed people to maintain their health, including psychiatric

medications, were a boon of Kundalini in this age. People don't have

to give up their medications in order to proceed in sadhana. If

things are stuck then there are many other things to look at for

making sure one's sadhana is progressing.

All my best,

Lawrence Edwards, Ph.D.

www.thesoulsjourney.com

P.S. - Never surrender your discrimination.

Carol said -

" I think I just need some time to get to know everyone. I hope you

all will allow me to even ask scary uncomfortable questions. If I

should have taken it pm, please let me know that too. I need to keep

reading and talking. "

From Eamonn -

" ... I believe it would be prudent to take things slowly for now.

Step back from the Apprenticeship, and develop

the " Safeties " , " Tibetans " , etc. I feel I'm in the right

place, there is no rush. I hope everyone understands. "

So, I am going to join Carol and Eamonn. The other Apprentices may

have to give up certain things in their lifestyles. I, possibly,

might end up giving up my life.

As you said to Carol, " ... I honor your concerns ... It is a leap

of faith in many cases especially on the internet. "

When writing, especially over the Internet, it is extremely

difficult, at times, to get your point across. What you meant to say

is not, necessarily, what comes across.

I was shocked at the instructions given to me - to stop taking my

medication. Chrism, it doesn't sound as if you are familiar with

Hyperthyroidism. This definitely doesn't fall into the same category

as Arthritis, or even Hypothyroidism. Hyperthyroidism means - the

thyroid has become dysfunctional. It is swollen. It has speeded up,

and is pumping out too much. It affects every cell in the body. It

is a very dangerous condition if you are not taking medication to

slow it down. This has been a stressful week for me. I just took my

blood pressure - 160/102, heart rate 94 ... Stress ... I have pills

for this, but, stress overrides, sometimes.

Chrism, I think that when you learned of my medical problems, you

should have said to me what you said to Carol. It would seem that I

am not ready, for I would have to forsake those " MD prescribed

pills " . I think that you should have instructed me to spend more

time in meditation, and other practices so that I would be enabled to

heal this condition. Instructing me to throw away my medication

reminds me of those Fundamentalist Evangelists who told people that

God had healed them - to " throw away those pills! " Anything else

would show a lack of Faith! They lived to regret those statements.

Many people died.

My late husband believed that getting older meant High Blood

Pressure, i.e. - it was Nature's Way, and he stopped taking his

pills. He died of a heart attack, although he was pretty young.

Although I am one of four children, I am the one who takes care of my

parents. My mother and father are quite elderly, and my father is

well into Senility. You never know what he is going to say next. He

is driving my mother crazy ... Her blood pressure goes sky high. If

something happened to me, it would kill them both. Too many people

depend on me, and I cannot let them down. Charity, i.e. - Service,

begins at home. So, this isn't any lack of " Surrender " on my part.

The only " fear " that I have is for others, who depend on me. I have

to put others ahead of my self. At least, for the time being.

Because of this " medical thing " , I have taken a few steps back ...

And, then, there's this, from Chrism, to Carol -

" It wasn't pleasant for me at first and what should have taken a year

or two took almost six or seven years to work through but not after

much damage was incurred. I am lucky to be living. "

Chrism, I hope that you figured out what happened, what you did

wrong. I think that I know where I went wrong, that resulted in my

nearly dying. However, mine was spontaneous. I had no idea what I

was getting into.

As far as the Jim Jones/Kool-Aid Thing, that wasn't a problem until I

started seeing things like this ...

To Adam -

" I will expect and receive your devotion and compliance especially

when the path is

difficult. "

To Chris -

" I must advise that there may be physical and emotional, mental, and

psychological aspects that will also need to be surrendered my

friend. "

From -

" ... if i were a spouse and read Becky's note i would

have some serious doubts about this surrendering stuff -but rest

assured all you spouses - you are not being asked to give up your

car or house or ipod - it is a surrendering of self ... in

surrendering to k ( the higher power) you surrender who

you are- not what you have - you do not give it up - you give into

it -- bigggggggggggggg difference! "

Correction, Reply Back To -

" One needs to be willing to surrender all attachments. All

attachments. "

I am a little freaked-out concerning the direction this has taken.

It is going to take time for me to re-establish complete trust. I am

withdrawing from Apprenticeship.

I think that's the following is a good rule to follow:

" You should never accept a guru (or anyone else who claims some

special status or knowledge) simply on the basis of his/her own

assertions. You must always use discrimination and draw your own

conclusions. Buddha said, " Be a light unto yourself. " In other

words, don't give away your own power, but use your intelligence and

inner wisdom as your guide. "

Dorothy Walters, Ph.D.

Namaste,

Fenix

October 20, 2007

Please see below separated by @@ - chrism

To All,

I have been thinking - long and hard - about Chrism's position on

what he believes is necessary for me to enter into Apprenticeship.

Chrism said -

" If Kundalini is infusing and causing hyperthyroidism and you

block that expression by taking a drug that thwarts that expression

by

artificially inserting an agent of control, a blockage can develop.

@@ Not WILL But CAN develop. @@

This is the nexus of many of the choices that sometimes need to be

made and which once again come under the heading of surrender. "

" All of the symptoms you have just mentioned are Kundalini. So now

you

have the choice to hear the fear teachings and warnings from the MD's

and respond to it or not. "

@@ Where is it that I am giving a direction or an advice? I am

listing options that I see are person specific to the individual not

for all. There is no instuction at all being given about whether or

not to take a medication. Choices are being enumerated. @@

In order to come to a decision about the Apprenticeship, and what it

would mean for me, I decided to get another learned opinion. I went

to " Kundalini Support " (http://kundalinisupport.net/) , one of the

web sites of an organization established by Dorothy Walters, Ph.D.,

Lawrence Edwards, Ph.D., LMHC, and others, who have a wonderful

reputation, as well as excellent credentials.

@@ And this is good yet they have no idea what is being given. @@

In her comments on feeling that you have " lost " the Goddess, or being

concerned that your Path seems to have stalled, Dr. Walters said

this -

" I think we all feel this anxiety when " it " (Kundalini) seems to

disappear. I have found (over the period of 25 years) that it always

comes back, no matter how long it " goes away. " Often one needs to

set aside time for special practice, to invite the Beloved back into

your life, for it to reactivate. " It " is full of surprises, and will

reawaken quite unexpectedly at times. "

As for the matter of stopping all medications, in order to progress

further, Dr. Walters said -

" There are also very rare but attention grabbing instances of people

getting rashes, diarrhea, and various painful conditions, food

sensitivities or allergies, and the manifestation of latent, karmicly

held diseases or disorders surfacing to be released.

ANY KRIYA, PHYSICAL OR MENTAL/EMOTIONAL, THAT MAY HAVE MEDICAL,

NEUROLOGICAL OR PSYCHIATRIC SIGNIFICANCE SHOULD BE CHECKED OUT BY THE

APPROPRIATE HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS. I've seen cases where someone

dismissed a symptom as a kriya and it turned out to the symptom of a

medical or psychiatric disorder like high blood pressure, diabetes,

bipolar disorder, etc. It's always worth having such things checked

out medically even if it is only to rule out a possible problem.

@@ This s a most unfortunate opinion - in my opinion, when talking

or writing in the context of the Kundalini and how the infusion of

Kundalini effects the physical systems. This Dr. Walters is erring

on the side of caution as determined by the medical community which

doesnt understand Kundalini, doesnt even admit to its existence, and

has no reference for it in the proffesional literature that they

base most of their opinions on.

Instead he or she cites conditions that are indeed brought about by

the Kundalini as a disorder. Just like much of the medical community

will assert an incorrect position until it is proved to be different

from the incorrect assumption that spawned that position. Look at

tonsils and the removal of the thymus gland and now the appendix is

coming into a slow focus for the medical community.

Until medical science can even accept the Kundalini as being real

their assumptiuons about any conditionds that come from its presence

in a body are like a taxidermist teaching and advising dentistry.

Melissa is correct in that this divide needs to be filled. Currently

there is no room for disagreement with medical authority. So issues

of the Kundalini will not be honored. Issues that may be completely

in line with the changes occurring in the body due to its infusion

by the Kundalini will be inteprpreted as an abnormal condition one

that needs correction.

High blood pressure, diabetes,

bipolar disorder, etc. all, have a place in the Kundalini

environment including issues of the thyroid, heart, eyes,

reproductive organs, lungs, tongue, ears, scalp, palms of the hands

and feet, fingers, toes, legs, tailbone, spine, and in so doing will

have a profound effect upon the emotional, mental, and psychologic

expressions of the person.

To relegate these symptoms to the authority of a physician who is

not informed or understanding or even accepting of the Kundalini is

the same as flying a jet fighter with the training of the operations

of a childs tricycle. Yet this is the world we live in here in the

western societies. @@

I've worked with individuals who had to take medications to calm

things down, including anti-psychotics, in order to remain

functional. When I was helping people who came to Baba's ashram in

Ganeshpuri, India and the Shakti was so intense they lost touch with

reality and became psychotic, in very, very rare instances physicians

would prescribe anti-psychotic medication to help stabilize the

individual. Baba said it was fine, that Shakti took the form of

medications to help people maintain their mental balance.

@@ Baba said it so it must be true. To use a Guru to support a

position of me as an irresponsible teacher (Guru) because I have

offered options mis interpreted as advice is unfortunate. At least

one could have used one of the better teachers. - lol. @@

Maintaining balance and integration is extremely important.

@@ This suggests that the Kundalini doesnt have its own internal

process of balance. That it cant know a person better than the ego

knows itself. Yet the ego version of what is balance is most often

the only route taken. Surrendering to the Kundalini and allowing

what it changes to be an acceptable aspoect of the program is

denied. @@

In many

ways the disciplines of yoga build the strength of the ego to contain

greater energies even while we shift our identification away from

being bound by the ego. But the ego as a strong vehicle for

consciousness and functioning in the world remains intact. It

becomes the servant rather that the master. "

In order to remain functional, at this time, I need to keep all of

those terrible symptoms away. Obviously, Dr. Walters would allow me

that.

@@ I am not depriving you of your medicine. Perhaps then it is Dr.

Walters you should be studying with. @@

However, I needed one more opinion. I sent Dr. Edwards a letter,

giving him all of the facts, and he wrote me back, and said -

Dear Pam,

Much of what passes for " Kundalini " yoga isn't.

Obviously this person wasnt given the facts as I am not teaching

Kundalini Yoga at all! These are not Yoga teachings. These are what

yoga can prepare the body to hold. The Kundalini energy itself. @@

I don't know what

this person teaches, but unless they are willing to take full

responsibility medically and legally for your wellbeing, as your

doctors are, then I wouldn't even begin to put my trust in them.

@@ Yes the doctor is correct he doesnt know what I am teaching. It

isnt legal for me to take full responsibility for your well being

for a condition that is not accepted by science. That woiuld be like

saying " I am responsible for your communication with angels. " This

would not be respected legallkyt or medically except as

another " condition " . I am not asking for your trust in me but of

your trust in what is occurring and that perhaps, just maybe, the

agenda of the Kundalini has a clue as to what it is doing. @@

Follow your doctor's advice. Kundalini is the creative power of the

Divine, Shakti, and will not be thwarted by what you need medically.

@@ Perhaps, perhaps not. One cannot say for sure what the Shakti

will do inside oif an individual withb precise clarity all the time.

I have seen it work around certain severe injuries and conditions. I

have seen it twisted by other medications into expressions of a very

unpleasent nature. Your choice. @@

Swami Muktananda, one of the greatest true Kundalini masters, whom I

served and studied under for years, used to say that medications that

allowed people to maintain their health, including psychiatric

medications, were a boon of Kundalini in this age. People don't have

to give up their medications in order to proceed in sadhana. If

things are stuck then there are many other things to look at for

making sure one's sadhana is progressing.

All my best,

Lawrence Edwards, Ph.D.

www.thesoulsjourney.com

P.S. - Never surrender your discrimination.

@@ So proceed with your sadhana as you see fit. Make sure that you

call up and write these folks when ever you have an issue with

anything I say. I look forward to how they re interpret it. @@

Carol said -

" I think I just need some time to get to know everyone. I hope you

all will allow me to even ask scary uncomfortable questions. If I

should have taken it pm, please let me know that too. I need to keep

reading and talking. "

From Eamonn -

" ... I believe it would be prudent to take things slowly for now.

Step back from the Apprenticeship, and develop

the " Safeties " , " Tibetans " , etc. I feel I'm in the right

place, there is no rush. I hope everyone understands. "

So, I am going to join Carol and Eamonn. The other Apprentices may

have to give up certain things in their lifestyles. I, possibly,

might end up giving up my life.

As you said to Carol, " ... I honor your concerns ... It is a leap

of faith in many cases especially on the internet. "

When writing, especially over the Internet, it is extremely

difficult, at times, to get your point across. What you meant to say

is not, necessarily, what comes across.

I was shocked at the instructions given to me - to stop taking my

medication. Chrism, it doesn't sound as if you are familiar with

Hyperthyroidism.

@@ Instructions? You have mis read and mis construed and projected

into what I have written. Lets see here it is...

" If Kundalini is infusing and causing hyperthyroidism and you

block that expression by taking a drug that thwarts that expression

by artificially inserting an agent of control, a blockage can

develop. This is the nexus of many of the choices that sometimes

need to be made and which once again come under the heading of

surrender. All of the symptoms you have just mentioned are

Kundalini. So now you have the choice to hear the fear teachings and

warnings from the MD's and respond to it or not. "

Where is the instruction here? " Where " did I say for you to not take

a med.?@@

This definitely doesn't fall into the same category