Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hello Mikael, A well framed question thank for asking it. In certain belief systems some restrictions are placed upon those who would learn certain principles that are there to protect the student from moving into areas that are unhealthy or in some cases harmful for the student to experience. Not to say that these areas cannot be accessed by the student of their own self using their own potentials but rather helping a person not to repeat difficult areas of learning that can do some damage that could severely restrict their development in this life. On the surface this admonition of not being able to have realization without the help of the Guru may sound like it is the Guru giving this " power " to the student. And yes some Gurus do proclaim to gift to there students these discoveries. Kundalini activation can be given by a Guru. In the larger view proclaiming to do so doesn't mean that " the Guru " actually does this as it is the " choice " of the student to even be in the presence of a Guru who is making this proclamation. So who is really in control? The student is in control in my opinion. Can't get realized by that Guru unless you are nestled between the toes of that Guru - lol. And the student always makes that choice. That's on the surface. The reasons for teaching and helping others is so that we can take advantage of the blessed learning's of those who's shoulders we stand upon. Fact of the matter is Kundalini comes to those without external teachers. And Kundalini is of itself a most effective teacher. So though I respect the many enlightened masters who have taken the experience and the knowledge of those who have gone before them in their lineage it is by no means a requirement to have a linage or a Guru for realization to take place. I had no one. Eventually I had a book by Gopi Krishna. This helped greatly if nothing else than in the realization of not being alone. Then the internet comes along and I see many with similar symptoms. So no lineage and no fleshly Guru. But plenty of learning and plenty of teachings. Kundalini gives realization. Did the Guru invent Kundalini? No it is a natural component of the human energetic anatomy. God created Kundalini and in Gods hands do we sit as we try our best to learn and live with in the new boundaries that the Kundalini gives us with the expanded reality that is experienced. We are safer in the hands of God than between the toes of a Guru! - lol. Yet the teachings and the writings of the lineage based Gurus continue to attract those who wish to experience realization in those ways and I give many blessings to them! It is not a bad way and can offer much comfort and benefit for those who walk that path. It is good to have choices and I offer my respect and friendship to the lineages and those who continue them. - , " mikael " <mixolyd wrote: > > Question: If it is true that the Guru is one's own Self, what is the > principle underlying the doctrine which says that, however learned a > disciple may be or whatever occult powers he may possess, he cannot > attain Self-realisation without the grace of the Guru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 thank you chrism for your response kundalini is definitely the teacher one should surrender to.. but how does one know that kundalini is guiding him and not his ego? that's been a problem of mine. :/ I do understand what you mean about gurus. yes some do say that it is their power that grants realization.. but i think it is a tool, at least that is my understanding of it. it is the tantric relationship between teacher and student. i'm currently in the midst of reading Dangerous Friend, a book recommended to me to understand the tantric relationship in tibetan buddhism which is the same in hindu system. i think the purpose is to curb the persons ego, not the true Self. the guru points one in that direction and is a safety net to catch the person if he strays away which is so easy to do (i know from experience, staying on the path is the toughest part for me) so yes, ultimately it is God's grace that brings one to realization, but i think that is what the teacher represents. i remember a teaching of the bhagavad gita that was presented to me by a teacher about how it is easier to surrender to form than some formless concept or idea in this day and age (kali yuga). we worship form all the time, so worshipping formless (judaism, islam) is very hard. christianity took a different route with jesus being the form of god, and that is the same as the guru. its just a pointing tool.. though easily can be misunderstood. it is definitely a dangerous business, the tantric system. it is not for everyone, maybe in this modern information age the guru isn't as necessary as he was back in the day when this sort of information and community was inaccessible.. , " chrism " <> wrote: > > Hello Mikael, > A well framed question thank for asking it. In certain > belief systems some restrictions are placed upon those who would > learn certain principles that are there to protect the student from > moving into areas that are unhealthy or in some cases harmful for > the student to experience. > > Not to say that these areas cannot be accessed by the student of > their own self using their own potentials but rather helping a > person not to repeat difficult areas of learning that can do some > damage that could severely restrict their development in this life. > > On the surface this admonition of not being able to have realization > without the help of the Guru may sound like it is the Guru giving > this " power " to the student. And yes some Gurus do proclaim to gift > to there students these discoveries. Kundalini activation can be > given by a Guru. > > In the larger view proclaiming to do so doesn't mean that " the Guru " > actually does this as it is the " choice " of the student to even be > in the presence of a Guru who is making this proclamation. So who is > really in control? The student is in control in my opinion. > > Can't get realized by that Guru unless you are nestled between the > toes of that Guru - lol. And the student always makes that choice. > > That's on the surface. The reasons for teaching and helping others > is so that we can take advantage of the blessed learning's of those > who's shoulders we stand upon. > > Fact of the matter is Kundalini comes to those without external > teachers. And Kundalini is of itself a most effective teacher. So > though I respect the many enlightened masters who have taken the > experience and the knowledge of those who have gone before them in > their lineage it is by no means a requirement to have a linage or a > Guru for realization to take place. > > I had no one. Eventually I had a book by Gopi Krishna. This helped > greatly if nothing else than in the realization of not being alone. > Then the internet comes along and I see many with similar symptoms. > So no lineage and no fleshly Guru. But plenty of learning and plenty > of teachings. > > Kundalini gives realization. Did the Guru invent Kundalini? No it is > a natural component of the human energetic anatomy. God created > Kundalini and in Gods hands do we sit as we try our best to learn > and live with in the new boundaries that the Kundalini gives us with > the expanded reality that is experienced. We are safer in the hands > of God than between the toes of a Guru! - lol. > > Yet the teachings and the writings of the lineage based Gurus > continue to attract those who wish to experience realization in > those ways and I give many blessings to them! It is not a bad way > and can offer much comfort and benefit for those who walk that path. > It is good to have choices and I offer my respect and friendship to > the lineages and those who continue them. - > > > , " mikael " > <mixolyd@> wrote: > > > > Question: If it is true that the Guru is one's own Self, what is > the > > principle underlying the doctrine which says that, however learned > a > > disciple may be or whatever occult powers he may possess, he cannot > > attain Self-realisation without the grace of the Guru? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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