Ethics/Morality (Was Placement--)

[Guest guest]

At 11:08 AM 4/15/2008, you wrote:

>We must also be aware that not all of the people with whom we come in contact

in our day-to-day lives will be operating at the same level of morality as we

are. So we must (1) be strong and confident in our moral expression regardless

of the reaction of others, (2) honor the morality of those around us,

acknowledging that they are exactly where they need to be in their own spiritual

development; refrain from judging them by our standards.

 

Interesting ... I have wrestled with this issue in a couple cases in my life ...

and I see a problem with that assertion. These two statements can be mutually

contradictory.

 

How do you tell someone that the reason you are no longer speaking them (being

" strong and confident in our moral expression regardless of the reaction of

others " ) ... is that it has come to your attention that they are " ethically

challenged " (is that " honoring their morality " )?

 

In one case, I " suspended judgement " for a long time when it became clear that a

friend of mine was abusing his friends and business clients. I saw things

happening I was not comfortable with, and I didn't speak up, in part because I

hoped if I showed a loving example, he would come to see the honor in it (failed

at that, utterly) and because I did not want to be perceived as " judgmental " .

The first time, I thought " maybe he made a mistake " and decided to let it go.

Then it happened again and again, and finally we had a big blow-out ... and I

decided to cut ties and move on. Was I doing this person a favor not revealing

the motivation for my actions? I am not so certain of that. Maybe it would help

him if enough people told him the reason they keep walking out of his life is

he's a rude bully who abuses his friends and clients? Is speaking that truth

" judging him by my standards " ?

 

I guess the question is, where it comes to ethics and morality, are there not

times when standards of judgment must apply?

 

I think we have to judge others in these cases, if for nothing more than

self-preservation. What matters is letting go of the resentment and attachment

to outcome that come along with judgment. I understand that he's operating from

fear and he's at where he is according to his own growth, so I don't feel

judgmental. But I did have to apply my judgment to the situation - and I think

that's something missing from a lot of the talk on this subject.

 

Brandi

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

" How do you tell someone that the reason you are no longer speaking them (being

" strong and confident in our moral expression regardless of the reaction of

others " ) ... is that it has come to your attention that they are " ethically

challenged " (is that " honoring their morality " )? "

 

 

These are my thoughts on your question: We choose our friends based on common

interests and values, gravitating towards people with similar moral standards

('birds of a feather...'). If we are ethical, we tend to 'feel better' around

other people who are ethical. So, in the case you cited, it is not judging this

guy to end the friendship, it is simply a matter of choosing to distance

yourself from someone you didn't feel comfortable around because of the way he

treated friends and clients. And, though it would be 'rewarding' to help this

person to change the way he treats people, it is not our job to help people

change. The best thing you CAN do, you DID, which was to model the kind and

loving way to treat clients. If he chose NOT to adopt the behavior you

modeled...if he was NOT ready to change, that is his choice and that is where he

needs to be in his spiritual development at this moment.

 

Claudia

 

Brandi Jasmine <jazztalk wrote:

At 11:08 AM 4/15/2008, you wrote:

>We must also be aware that not all of the people with whom we come in contact

in our day-to-day lives will be operating at the same level of morality as we

are. So we must (1) be strong and confident in our moral expression regardless

of the reaction of others, (2) honor the morality of those around us,

acknowledging that they are exactly where they need to be in their own spiritual

development; refrain from judging them by our standards.

 

Interesting ... I have wrestled with this issue in a couple cases in my life ...

and I see a problem with that assertion. These two statements can be mutually

contradictory.

 

How do you tell someone that the reason you are no longer speaking them (being

" strong and confident in our moral expression regardless of the reaction of

others " ) ... is that it has come to your attention that they are " ethically

challenged " (is that " honoring their morality " )?

 

In one case, I " suspended judgement " for a long time when it became clear that a

friend of mine was abusing his friends and business clients. I saw things

happening I was not comfortable with, and I didn't speak up, in part because I

hoped if I showed a loving example, he would come to see the honor in it (failed

at that, utterly) and because I did not want to be perceived as " judgmental " .

The first time, I thought " maybe he made a mistake " and decided to let it go.

Then it happened again and again, and finally we had a big blow-out ... and I

decided to cut ties and move on. Was I doing this person a favor not revealing

the motivation for my actions? I am not so certain of that. Maybe it would help

him if enough people told him the reason they keep walking out of his life is

he's a rude bully who abuses his friends and clients? Is speaking that truth

" judging him by my standards " ?

 

I guess the question is, where it comes to ethics and morality, are there not

times when standards of judgment must apply?

 

I think we have to judge others in these cases, if for nothing more than

self-preservation. What matters is letting go of the resentment and attachment

to outcome that come along with judgment. I understand that he's operating from

fear and he's at where he is according to his own growth, so I don't feel

judgmental. But I did have to apply my judgment to the situation - and I think

that's something missing from a lot of the talk on this subject.

 

Brandi