love - and - animals

[Guest guest]

Dear Sarita,

 

I gave up convincing ordinary people to become vegan becasuye they can

not get it. It is too muich for them. But for members of this group

that are in the <path of light and love>, I attempted. Why? Becasue it

is good to be compassionate and loving. All the safeties that is

teaching is about Love. How can one develop love and kill?

 

Shahin

[Guest guest]

I am not hearing *love* in your posts Shahin, I am hearing condescension and superiority. I understand that you feel vegan is the way to go, but that doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't is wrong or less worthy of the K rising. I wasn't looking for K, it found me. I have tried to follow Shakti's promptings with food. There have been times I could not eat meat and other times that I craved meat like never before. I just can't make the connection between being vegan and the K.

Sarita

, "Shahin" <sh1963sh wrote:>> Dear Sarita,> > I gave up convincing ordinary people to become vegan becasuye they can > not get it. It is too muich for them. But for members of this group > that are in the <path of light and love>, I attempted. Why? Becasue it > is good to be compassionate and loving. All the safeties that is > teaching is about Love. How can one develop love and kill?> > Shahin>

[Guest guest]

Shahin,

 

Thank you for your posts -- I believe that you believe in what you

are saying and only wish us the best. Here are some thoughts to

consider.

 

Per Patanjali, yoga is the control of thought-waves (vrittis) in the

mind. IMHO, it has nothing to do with what you eat or don't eat.

 

I believe that once Shakti takes over your spiritual development, She

will dictate everything, including lifestyle choices like what to eat

or not to eat. Remaining attached to something you have read or were

once taught rather than surrendering to Shakti can cause problems.

If Shakti is telling you to be a vegetarian, then that is what you

must do. For some of us here, She is telling us we need to include

animal flesh in our diets. That is what we must do to surrender to

Her.

 

Regarding killing, I believe Krishna spent some time explaining to

Arjuna why he should go onto the battlefield to lovingly and

compassionately kill his cousins....

 

There is a delightful short story by J.D. Salinger called " Teddy " .

It is about karma and how, in the case of the main character, he only

needs to incarnate for a short time to fulfill some karmic

obligations, after which he can go on to better experiences. What

appears to most in the society into which he incarnates as a terrible

tragedy -- his death at a young age -- is in reality a great blessing

for him. A different perspective.

 

I have always believed that we all reincarnate and that we change

bodies as suits of clothes, to paraphrase the Bhagavad Gita.

 

Who am I to say what the karma is of those souls who incarnate as the

cows, chickens, etc. that help to feed us? It may well be that they

only need a brief existence as animals bred for food in order to move

on to their next set of adventures. Viewed from this perpestive, is

it loving or compassionate to prolong their existence in an

incarnation that has already fulfilled its purpose?

 

Please understand that those of us here who eat meat do not do so out

of hatred for animals or from a lack of love and compassion. We are

following our hearts and the dictates of the Goddess. Please respect

that Kundalini manifests unique demands on each person in whom She is

active....

 

Love,

 

David

[Guest guest]

I am convicted at this point to become vegetarian. It is a thought that has been resonating with me for awhile. And now I am convinced. And I LOVE the TASTE of a rare steak. But if I had to go out and kill it, skin it, and clean it, I would never eat it. The grocery store has disassociated me from reality with the perfectly packaged piece of meat/hamburger/chicken. Thank you, dear one, for your courage to expound your convictions. I don't believe that I can eat anything with a face any longer. I don't believe that food is that important. Just where I am on my path. And neither do I judge those who are carnivorous.

 

So clean with a day of watermelon............and Rice is NICE...........

 

Blessings all, in everything you say, do, or eat............................

Julie--- On Mon, 8/18/08, djgottlieb <dgottlieb wrote:

djgottlieb <dgottlieb Re: love - and - animals Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 10:16 PM

 

 

Shahin,Thank you for your posts -- I believe that you believe in what you are saying and only wish us the best. Here are some thoughts to consider.Per Patanjali, yoga is the control of thought-waves (vrittis) in the mind. IMHO, it has nothing to do with what you eat or don't eat.I believe that once Shakti takes over your spiritual development, She will dictate everything, including lifestyle choices like what to eat or not to eat. Remaining attached to something you have read or were once taught rather than surrendering to Shakti can cause problems. If Shakti is telling you to be a vegetarian, then that is what you must do. For some of us here, She is telling us we need to include animal flesh in our diets. That is what we must do to surrender to Her.Regarding killing, I believe Krishna spent some time explaining to Arjuna why he should go onto the battlefield to lovingly

and compassionately kill his cousins....There is a delightful short story by J.D. Salinger called "Teddy". It is about karma and how, in the case of the main character, he only needs to incarnate for a short time to fulfill some karmic obligations, after which he can go on to better experiences. What appears to most in the society into which he incarnates as a terrible tragedy -- his death at a young age -- is in reality a great blessing for him. A different perspective.I have always believed that we all reincarnate and that we change bodies as suits of clothes, to paraphrase the Bhagavad Gita.Who am I to say what the karma is of those souls who incarnate as the cows, chickens, etc. that help to feed us? It may well be that they only need a brief existence as animals bred for food in order to move on to their next set of adventures. Viewed from this perpestive, is it loving or

compassionate to prolong their existence in an incarnation that has already fulfilled its purpose?Please understand that those of us here who eat meat do not do so out of hatred for animals or from a lack of love and compassion. We are following our hearts and the dictates of the Goddess. Please respect that Kundalini manifests unique demands on each person in whom She is active....Love,David

[Guest guest]

Hi Shahin,

 

yes, I agree with you that having an intention to be loving and

compassionate is a good place to start, and I respect the fact that

you embody that intention by extending life to all animals. I

considered this carefully before, and I decided I needed some type of

moral framework on which to rank my decisions, as life is more

complex than a simple 'don't kill animals'.

 

Could I suggest that you read Ken Wilbers 'Sex Ecology and

Spirituality: The Spirit of Evolution'? He thoughtfully explores a

type of moral questioning, and one of the ideas is that a human life

is more significant than an animal life, and so, in the interests of

health, it may be okay sometimes for humans to eat animals. I found

his framework useful. I would be hesistant to discuss this issue

furthur without you having read his work, as there is a lot of

background to the discussion.

 

Oh, and as far as K. Significance to this post ... one way to look

at K. is of an evolutionary process becoming conscious and active in

the human form, and so exploring the patterns through which evolution

operates (which Mr. Wilber does in his work) would most likely be

very useful for anyone having K. or wanting K. If anyone wants to

discuss this furthur, they are welcome to email me...

 

love

Bruce

 

 

, " Shahin "

<sh1963sh wrote:

>

> Dear Sarita,

>

> I gave up convincing ordinary people to become vegan becasuye they

can

> not get it. It is too muich for them. But for members of this group

> that are in the <path of light and love>, I attempted. Why? Becasue

it

> is good to be compassionate and loving. All the safeties that

Chrism is

> teaching is about Love. How can one develop love and kill?

>

> Shahin

>

[Guest guest]

At 06:42 PM 8/18/2008, you wrote:

I gave up convincing ordinary

people to become vegan

Seems to me you haven't given up at all.

How can one develop love and

kill?

I love my cat. And I love a good steak. I see no relationship between the

two, sorry. Most humans are capable of compartmentalizing these different

concepts. There is a difference between a food animal and a pet. There

are all kinds of people who hunt and butcher their own meat, and I see no

evidence that they are devoid of love otherwise.

Do you never have unloving moments? Are you perfected? When you are, get

back to us with this argument, but first please tell us how you achieved

this feat of spiritual mastery. Not only will you have a compelling

argument for the vegan case, people will throw themselves and their money

at you to obtain this secret. Until then, you, like all humans, have

moments of selfishness and imperfection, that does not mean you don't

understand love, that you can't grow in love.

" Killing " is relative. There are levels of killing. You are

killing vegetables when you are eating. Life is designed to feed on life.

Humans are designed to eat meat, our teeth and digestive systems are

omnivore. If you can live without it, good for you, we're happy for you.

That gives you no justification to judge those who don't follow your

dictates.

Let's change the question now though. I want to know ... is a guilt-based

argument compassionate and loving?

Brandi