Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Chrism I know you're busy, so, no hurry. When you get the chance, wonder if you could comment on the relationship between self-realization and kundalini. Especially, do you thiink one depends on the other? Does K-experience necessarily result in enlightenment, and, do you know of any who have achieved self-realization without a K-experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 , " falkner.craig " <falkner.craig wrote: > > Chrism > I know you're busy, so, no hurry. When you get the chance, wonder if you could comment on > the relationship between self-realization and kundalini. Especially, do you thiink one > depends on the other? Does K-experience necessarily result in enlightenment, and, do you > know of any who have achieved self-realization without a K-experience? > What an interesting question. Thank you. Reg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hi, great question.. I also wonder about this.. Bruce , " falkner.craig " <falkner.craig wrote: > > Chrism > I know you're busy, so, no hurry. When you get the chance, wonder if you could comment on > the relationship between self-realization and kundalini. Especially, do you thiink one > depends on the other? Does K-experience necessarily result in enlightenment, and, do you > know of any who have achieved self-realization without a K-experience? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 the book i recently uploaded in the Files section called Best and Worst Spiritual paths, or something like that, touches on this. Kundalini is a step on the path but full K awakening doesn't necessarily mean you are enlightened. in the opinion of the author.. Kundalini does awaken naturally for everyone on the spiritual path, whether you work with it or not. in such traditions as Zen, it is viewed as phenomena not to be focused on. but it still happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hello Craig and Bruce, Yes as it takes the Kundalini in its proper measure to ensure life is granted to the individual soul as it comes into the body. Yes in that it takes the Kundalini to grow and nurture the body into the place of physical expression where the enlightement process can be experienced. No in that I do not feel that awakened Kundalini is essential for " every kind " of enlightening process that humans can experience. The Divine is multifaceted and some will have the experience that the Divine dictates is needed for them. Whether or not this includes the Kundalini is the Divine prerogative. NDE's often give enlightening experiences without the Kundalini. Those having them also sometimes have the Kundalini awakened because of the NDE. In most cases I will state that in my opinion Kundalini is the platform for an enlightenment process to be experienced. That this is the case for the majority of humanity who are approaching this phase of their expression. Like the flower we are born in darkness and grow towards the light. We are creatures of both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. We reach a certain point and the divinity within us blooms. Kundalini is the modus operandi of that bloom. Kundalini is IN the human for a reason. We have the physical system and the chakra system and the endocrine system and the multi platformed systems that overlap the base physical expressions. We have the nadis and everything from a chitrini channel to the third eye extruding outward from between the eyebrows. These are all manifestations and organs of operation and development inside of the Kundalini environment. In my opinion the vast majority of the enlightening experiences and processes are inclusive of the Kundalini component. - blessings all. - chrism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Dear chrism and Bruce, I write from India. I had more than 50 years of active interest in Kundalini and Yoga, eventhough I have not experienced any K awakening. Yoga itself is considered to be 10,000 - Ten thousand - years old by some Indian scholars. It was an oral tradition of utmost secrecy and Guru to chela it was transmitted by word of mouth. To asisst in memorising, every thing was expressed in a poetic format called Sutras. The first written record of Yoga is thought to be by the Sage Pathanjali - Yoga sutras. It states that " Chitha vrithi nirodham Yoga" - Stopping of the mind results in God realisation. No where in his book, the Patanjali yoga sutras is any mention of either Kundalini or the chakras. Even though, mention of these are made in hundreds of books that came after Yoga Sutras. I hope that my this humble offering satisfies your enquiry.With love and regardsVG--- On Sat, 21/2/09, bruce_oom <bruce_oom wrote:bruce_oom <bruce_oom Re: Kundalini and enlightenment Date: Saturday, 21 February, 2009, 1:28 PM Hi, great question.. I also wonder about this.. Bruce Kundalini-Awakening -Systems- 1 , "falkner.craig" <falkner.craig@ ...> wrote: > > Chrism > I know you're busy, so, no hurry. When you get the chance, wonder if you could comment on > the relationship between self-realization and kundalini. Especially, do you thiink one > depends on the other? Does K-experience necessarily result in enlightenment, and, do you > know of any who have achieved self-realization without a K-experience? > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 > > Like the flower we are born in darkness and grow towards the light. We > are creatures of both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. > We reach a certain point and the divinity within us blooms. Kundalini > is the modus operandi of that bloom. > Thank you Chrism...I came across certain books and articles that called kundalini shakti a 'path' and said that it doesnt happen for all who get enlightened.But I could not believe this. I understand that an enlightenment experience/experiencing truth is not dependent upon kundalini .. but salvation or nirvikalpa samadhi is through kundalini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Chrism Thanks for your thoughts, and thank you all for your thoughts. I've been reading up on as many self-realized, or, enlightened people as I can find. There seem to be two approaches; heart-based, and, the mental approach. The differences are interesting. Those advocating the mental approach seldom, if ever, mention kundalini, psychic gifts, and seem to talk almost exclusively about the search for truth. Those on the heart-based path, talk about Kundalini a great deal, and talk as much, or more, about the importance of love, as about truth. The differences between the two schools seems to be profound, considering they both profess the same goal. A couple of the advocates of the mental approach (What am I?),mention also having had kundalini experiences. It feels, from where I am, that the folks on the kundalini path, are a little more balanced. (Maybe because I'm on that path?) Some of the mental-path folks almost sound cold, if that makes any sense. --- On Sat, 2/21/09, chrism <> wrote: > <> > Re: Kundalini and enlightenment > > Saturday, February 21, 2009, 3:26 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Craig and Bruce, > > Yes as it takes the Kundalini in its > proper > > measure to ensure life is granted to the individual soul as > it comes > > into the body. Yes in that it takes the Kundalini to grow > and nurture > > the body into the place of physical expression where the > enlightement > > process can be experienced. > > > > No in that I do not feel that awakened Kundalini is > essential for > > " every kind " of enlightening process that humans > can experience. The > > Divine is multifaceted and some will have the experience > that the > > Divine dictates is needed for them. Whether or not this > includes the > > Kundalini is the Divine prerogative. NDE's often give > enlightening > > experiences without the Kundalini. Those having them also > sometimes > > have the Kundalini awakened because of the NDE. > > > > In most cases I will state that in my opinion Kundalini is > the > > platform for an enlightenment process to be experienced. > That this is > > the case for the majority of humanity who are approaching > this phase > > of their expression. > > > > Like the flower we are born in darkness and grow towards > the light. We > > are creatures of both ends of the spectrum and everything > in between. > > We reach a certain point and the divinity within us blooms. > Kundalini > > is the modus operandi of that bloom. > > > > Kundalini is IN the human for a reason. We have the > physical system > > and the chakra system and the endocrine system and the > multi > > platformed systems that overlap the base physical > expressions. We have > > the nadis and everything from a chitrini channel to the > third eye > > extruding outward from between the eyebrows. These are all > > manifestations and organs of operation and development > inside of the > > Kundalini environment. > > > > In my opinion the vast majority of the enlightening > experiences and > > processes are inclusive of the Kundalini component. - > blessings all. - > > chrism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi Craig, your observations ring true, but I do think within the selfless love that flows from this group in a Kundalini-inspired outreach of empathy and caring, there ia a blend in the paths of bhakti/devotion and non-duality (discarding of self-labelling and interpersonal judgement). The non-duality truly becomes singularity, in its unified expressions of helpfulness. Love - John. ==================Craig wrote: "Those advocating the mental approach seldom ....... seem to talk almost exclusively about the search for truth. Those on the Kundalini heart-based path, talk as much, or more, about the importance of love. The differences between the two schools seems profound, considering they both profess the same goal." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hi Everyone, thanks for your ideas, its been great to read them, and Chrism, thanks as always for the thoughtful response. I just have a few points. I remember reading something by Ramana Maharshi that there are two main routes to self-realization. The first is mentally through self-inquiry, basically continually negating ones experience, and saying 'I am not this' and the other is through selfless devotional service and surrender to the guru or higher self. Apparently each path eventually leads into the other. I found Genpo Roshi's Big Mind very useful. There, without a kundalini awakening, you can get facilitated into an experiential taste of the Universal Heart and the True Self, yet to stabilize and integrate those recognitions needs a fair amount of pratice. My experience with K awakening is that its done a very deep and thorough cleaning and healing within me,and is still actively ongoing. I cant imagine anything else being able to heal as deeply as this has, bringing deep blocks into awareness and liberating them. Then again, I also do my bit by staying as present as I can to whatever is arising. Today I felt sexual energy throughout my whole body. I have been a little errant the last week and K. has been warning me with dreams that I am on the wrong side of the tracks. The feminine has emerged again as a guide in my dreams, and there have been a continual string of inner and outer synchronicities happening. My neck tension has finally almost cleared up and I am feeling even more relaxed and easy to laugh than before. The peace just keeps on getting deeper, and for all of you folk out there who are going through that seemingly never ending unblocking phase and all the pain involved, just hang in there. I have been feeling increasingly spontaneously amazed at the world I live in (and that includes both inner and outer worlds). It seems more dreamlike and fantasy like (not in a happy fantasy way but kind of surreal and miraculous). I have been paying attention to my inner world and how I create results in relation to what is happening around. That is quite a shift, as instead of trying to make things happen and get what I want, I keep an eye on my inner world and watch how I unfold in relation to whats arising, keeping a feeling-vision in mind, all the while knowing that everything is fundamentally empty, so attachment to outcomes is more readily dropped and more experimental fun happens. Its fun to be entering more of a creative phase, and I am finding a lot of joy and happiness in making things, creating experiences, producing little bits of art and writing, and adding more to this world than there was just before. Real world results are becomong increasingly important again, and being not so caught up in how things should be kind of helps the results happen a little more easier and effectively... anyways, going on a bit... hope you are all well love Bruce , Craig Falkner <falkner.craig wrote: > > > Chrism > Thanks for your thoughts, and thank you all for your thoughts. > I've been reading up on as many self-realized, or, enlightened people as I can find. There seem to be two approaches; heart-based, and, the mental approach. The differences are interesting. Those advocating the mental approach seldom, if ever, mention kundalini, psychic gifts, and seem to talk almost exclusively about the search for truth. Those on the heart-based path, talk about Kundalini a great deal, and talk as much, or more, about the importance of love, as about truth. The differences between the two schools seems to be profound, considering they both profess the same goal. A couple of the advocates of the mental approach (What am I?),mention also having had kundalini experiences. > It feels, from where I am, that the folks on the kundalini path, are a little more balanced. (Maybe because I'm on that path?) Some of the mental-path folks almost sound cold, if that makes any sense. > > > > --- On Sat, 2/21/09, chrism <> wrote: > > > <> > > Re: Kundalini and enlightenment > > > > Saturday, February 21, 2009, 3:26 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Craig and Bruce, > > > > Yes as it takes the Kundalini in its > > proper > > > > measure to ensure life is granted to the individual soul as > > it comes > > > > into the body. Yes in that it takes the Kundalini to grow > > and nurture > > > > the body into the place of physical expression where the > > enlightement > > > > process can be experienced. > > > > > > > > No in that I do not feel that awakened Kundalini is > > essential for > > > > " every kind " of enlightening process that humans > > can experience. The > > > > Divine is multifaceted and some will have the experience > > that the > > > > Divine dictates is needed for them. Whether or not this > > includes the > > > > Kundalini is the Divine prerogative. NDE's often give > > enlightening > > > > experiences without the Kundalini. Those having them also > > sometimes > > > > have the Kundalini awakened because of the NDE. > > > > > > > > In most cases I will state that in my opinion Kundalini is > > the > > > > platform for an enlightenment process to be experienced. > > That this is > > > > the case for the majority of humanity who are approaching > > this phase > > > > of their expression. > > > > > > > > Like the flower we are born in darkness and grow towards > > the light. We > > > > are creatures of both ends of the spectrum and everything > > in between. > > > > We reach a certain point and the divinity within us blooms. > > Kundalini > > > > is the modus operandi of that bloom. > > > > > > > > Kundalini is IN the human for a reason. We have the > > physical system > > > > and the chakra system and the endocrine system and the > > multi > > > > platformed systems that overlap the base physical > > expressions. We have > > > > the nadis and everything from a chitrini channel to the > > third eye > > > > extruding outward from between the eyebrows. These are all > > > > manifestations and organs of operation and development > > inside of the > > > > Kundalini environment. > > > > > > > > In my opinion the vast majority of the enlightening > > experiences and > > > > processes are inclusive of the Kundalini component. - > > blessings all. - > > > > chrism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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