Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I agree, Selena. It's not about division but unity. And branding or naming a thing devalues it. I agree with J. Krishnamurti and some of the Zen statements to the effect that once you name a thing it is no longer the pure and perfect creation it was but limited to that "name". For me, Kundalini and it's practice just is what it is. It needs no more. And it is out there for any and all who choose or who It chooses. History, though interesting is of no value here. K is a "now" thing, to me. Perpetually "now". Valarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 , Valarie Vousden <vjvousden wrote: > > I agree, Selena. It's not about division but unity. And branding or naming a thing devalues it. I agree with J. Krishnamurti and some of the Zen statements to the effect that once you name a thing it is no longer the pure and perfect creation it was but limited to that " name " . For me, Kundalini and it's practice just is what it is. It needs no more. And it is out there for any and all who choose or who It chooses. History, though interesting is of no value here. K is a " now " thing, to me. Perpetually " now " . > > Valarie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I don't see how naming something devalues it. A name is just a name. Calling a tree a tree does not change the tree or my perception of the tree. The only way it can limit is if a person believes that the name is the thing or it they believe that by knowing the name they now know everything about the object or event. Naming the lineage is just naming it. Not naming is very right brain, yin Naming is more left brain, yang Both right brain and left brain are needed for balance One is not better than the other….both just are rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I feel the issue of naming is more involved with becoming " attached " to the idea of what is and what isnt. In the west we are overly attached to the idea that if we name something therefore we " know " what that something is. And in some ways this is fine to a degree imho. No devaluation occurs. If there is a devaluation it would be in asserting an over dependence of " attachment " to " a name " and from there a limitation can occur. I feel there is truth to both sides of the equation. Naming something " can " lead to division " if we allow that to occur " . It doesnt necessitate that occurrence imho. I agree with Selena and Valarie that there is much to be gained by the practice of " Unity Consciousness " and this makes complete sense due to the level and specific expression of the Kundalini awakening they are in. This doesnt imply that " naming " isnt useful. Many people awaken the Kundalini just fine inside of certain lineages. Nothing is taken away from the process by application or assertion of the lineage. From that standpoint I agree as well with Richard in that a name doesnt devalue what is being named and that yes " balance " is the best qualifier! - blessings all - chrism , " Richard Eisenberg " <Pyaar333 wrote: > > I don't see how naming something devalues it. A name is just a name. Calling a tree a tree does not change the tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Names are only but a description of an image an idol (form), I might be named after Saint John though he could never become me nor could I become him. Still I might be named after an ancestor still the name and form is different. I may be given a new name a name of god so as to relies my potential yet still I am not that name. The left brain and the right brain bears witness to duality. Both name and form is duality, essence is not, In Love - Richard Eisenberg Friday, April 10, 2009 4:53 AM Re: Lineage I don't see how naming something devalues it. A name is just a name. Calling a tree a tree does not change the tree or my perception of the tree. The only way it can limit is if a person believes that the name is the thing or it they believe that by knowing the name they now know everything about the object or event.Naming the lineage is just naming it.Not naming is very right brain, yinNaming is more left brain, yangBoth right brain and left brain are needed for balanceOne is not better than the other….both just arerich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Thank you, chrism, you said it much better than my attempt. Didn't really think it through first. I need to get out of being so enamored with where I am that I see more sides to a thing/issue. I was thinking of an exercise where you look at a tree or a flower and not say, "It's a tree" but see a green and brown abstract living thing, see beyond what you look at normally. A being outside what you know. And apologies to Rich if I offended. I touched on a sensitive issue for you, so I'm sorry. All I can ever really say is from the place where I am... Thanks for your wide open-ness and your comments, chrism, as always! Love all around, Valarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I like the sound of Chrismming Ascension. Just my thought on it.Blessings to all this Good Friday,edgar <> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 3:21:01 PM Re: Lineage I feel the issue of naming is more involved with becoming "attached" to the idea of what is and what isnt. In the west we are overly attached to the idea that if we name something therefore we "know" what that something is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 A lineage is about energy and transmission, but I also agree that the purpose of the lineage is to awaken what exists now. One lineage might be more familiar than another, or its framework could be more campatible to cultural programming, biology, or even ego desires. They all serve a purpose. An individual may be infused by the energy of a lineage yet open to the kundalini from other sources. Or they may align and re-align with various lineages. They might free themselves of any concepts around the kundalini and allow the energy to come to them unhindered, in whatever way their system needs at that moment in time. My approach is to relax and allow the spirit to come, in ALL its mysterious way. How about ManyOne Lineage. ;o) Blessings KB Edgar Alan Elango <Edgar_BNP Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:51:21 AMRe: Re: Lineage I like the sound of Chrismming Ascension. Just my thought on it.Blessings to all this Good Friday,edgar <@ >Kundalini-Awakening -Systems- 1 Thursday, April 9, 2009 3:21:01 PM[Kundalini-Awakenin g-Systems- 1] Re: Lineage I feel the issue of naming is more involved with becoming "attached" to the idea of what is and what isnt. In the west we are overly attached to the idea that if we name something therefore we "know" what that something is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Naming is the beginning of all classification systems, and classifications establish who belongs and who doesn't, as well as all sorts of internal and external hierarchies. It's an inevitable process that has repeated itself through the entire history of humankind: with clans, tribes, castes, nationalities, and--of course--religions, just to name a few. We might be a group of pretty enlightened people, but I do not think we are immune from ego-driven dynamics. If we are secure enough in our beliefs and values, we do not stand to gain much from a label. Brands may be useful for social purposes, but in the world of the spirit such things carry no value. The sooner we rid ourselves of such clutter, the faster we are going to advance. Sel , " chrism " <> wrote: > > I feel the issue of naming is more involved with becoming " attached " to the idea of what is and what isnt. In the west we are overly attached to the idea that if we name something therefore we " know " what that something is. > > And in some ways this is fine to a degree imho. No devaluation occurs. If there is a devaluation it would be in asserting an over dependence of " attachment " to " a name " and from there a limitation can occur. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I agree with you on the many points that you have placed before us, here and on the other posts. Naming an experience, doesn't do it justice, as the description of the experience, which will be different to all of us, can only be described in a multiple of words, rather than just one or two. For those who start the journey, however, it must have a starting point and thus the naming begins. I believe that the lineage sheds itself after the awakening and union. At many beginnings along the journey, we all want to hear what 'it's' name is or what 'it's' called. Eg. K Awakening, Ascension, Union, Oneness, (Higher) Consciousness, Nirvana, etc. I give you this: If the word 'orange' did not exist, how would you then describe it to someone who is blind and has never seen it before. I believe it was Osho who said that the English language is so young, that many words have not been invented yet to attach to an experience. We even have the same words that describe different things- how confusing could this be to ESLer. In my journey, I have called it K, Holy Spirit, Energy, Vibration, Ascension, etc....but to me, it's all the same. IMHO. Be Well, Ernie - Thursday, April 09, 2009 6:21 PM Re: Lineage I feel the issue of naming is more involved with becoming "attached" to the idea of what is and what isnt. In the west we are overly attached to the idea that if we name something therefore we "know" what that something is. And in some ways this is fine to a degree imho. No devaluation occurs. If there is a devaluation it would be in asserting an over dependence of "attachment" to "a name" and from there a limitation can occur. I feel there is truth to both sides of the equation. Naming something "can" lead to division "if we allow that to occur". It doesnt necessitate that occurrence imho. I agree with Selena and Valarie that there is much to be gained by the practice of "Unity Consciousness" and this makes complete sense due to the level and specific expression of the Kundalini awakening they are in. This doesnt imply that "naming" isnt useful. Many people awaken the Kundalini just fine inside of certain lineages. Nothing is taken away from the process by application or assertion of the lineage. From that standpoint I agree as well with Richard in that a name doesnt devalue what is being named and that yes "balance" is the best qualifier! - blessings all - chrism , "Richard Eisenberg" <Pyaar333 wrote:>> I don't see how naming something devalues it. A name is just a name. Calling a tree a tree does not change the tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 If someone wants to name what is done here then let it be named as they wish it to be. Kundalini doesnt care except as it offers a person entrance into this information. From this aspect it will use the name that is familiar or available to the individual. An example of this is that a person will dream of an advertisement for a seminar. They have not yet seen this advertisement in the waking state but they are being given its location (a magazine) and where it is in the magazine by the elements of the person that are directing their spiritual development. This has occurred for the seminars given in conjunction with this group. Another example is of seeing in the dream state the word " KUNDALINI " emblazoned on the forehead of an individual with no prior knowledge of the word. This has also occurred to a member of this group. Kundalini will use the cultural references that are available to that individual at the time in their life that is appropriate for them. So yes it is necessary for a label or name to exist and it doesnt have to be ego infused as that is a personal choice. These are areas that we are familiar with in the balance of the Kundalini upon the body. So we do our best to walk in that balance. The word Kundalini is ego less in its description and its unknown meanings to the point that no individual attachment of ego is present in the word itself. It describes a state or a potential, a condition and an opportunity and more meanings that have been lost to the ravages of time and human memory. We always have the opportunity for ego induced judgments and thought streams. It is a constant diligence that we observe in our personal interactions with in this environment as we make the distinctions between our ego body and our conscious mind and inner knowing. This will always be the challenge as we mature into the finer expressions. Ego attachment to possessions, our place in society, our jobs and careers, our relationships, our awards and personal recognition and achievements, our power over others and our classification systems. These are always there to be observed and balanced when we are ready to do so. In the grand view of a life naming a lineage is a small thing. imho. But if it is an issue of importance then no worries it can be named for what it means for ourselves. We can feel what is best for our individuality and what feels balanced for us. There are many names already for the Kundalini. The expression of it that we practice here can be given a distinction due to the special characteristics that are given here or not. I will let the Kundalini determine that. - blessings - chrism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 No offence taken I had this dissucion with people who insist that only the right brain, non-dualistic approach is correct. Some have gone as far as to say that naming and labeling is not just wrong, it is bad. My only point is… Names are needed to identify things. How could I ask someone to, " pass the salt " or " go to the store and buy some oranges " if nothing had a name? The name is not intended to limit or fully describe a thing. It is just a way to identify it. The word " Kundalini " in no way limits or fully describes Kundalini. Using that word is just a way to talk about what we are talking about. My name is rich…just something to call me so you know that it was not Margherita who wrote this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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