Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Hello Sparrow, for me the crucifixion/cross does represent the lying down of the ego self, willingly, and then rising up a new spiritual being. We each have our own cross/crucifixion to bear. The crucifixion of Christ Jesus was done as a sacrifice to take away/remove the sins/karma of all mankind. That was his gift to us, his great love for us all. Excepting his gifts means we have no more condemation/no more karma to pay. Of course, each has the choice of trying to balance out their karma their own way. Every last bit of karma has to be paid in full though, before one is to evolve from spiritual man to godman. That is the way I see it. That is why Christ Jesus said his yoke is easy. Surrendering/yoking ourself with Christ Jesus also means the Holy Spirit is given to those that ask, who empowers us to do the will of God, who protects and guides us in the way we should go. I am still not totally convinced that the Holy Spirit and K-ma are one and the same, but can except it as an aspect of it. There are many christians who only except the gift of salvation(the forgiveness of sin), but do not ever seek the gift of the Holy Spirit, so they stay as carnal christian partaking only the milk of the word. Some stay as infants in Christ their whole life, with only a minimal advancement in spirituality. That is the way I way I understand from a christian point of view. Linda , " ordinarysparrow " <ordinarysparrow wrote: .. . . .let me add the cross for me was there but the experience was not in anyway a crucifixion, rather a slouffingoff of an old reality and a birthing of a new way of being. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Namaste dear Linda as always honor to you. . .i can only share and write from own perspective. . .and perhaps i need to write that each time i make a post. . . we have each written that so many times, thought it was understood that we each write from our unique frame. . for me i am comfortable with using K Ma and the Holy Spirit ( the manifestation of Divinity into Matter) interchangeably. . .when i went through Awakening the text in the Bible concerning the Holy Spirit/Holy Fire where some of the best words i found in print that supplied a frame for my experience. . .do not mean to offend you or your beliefs. . .in the world of K Ma the best i can do is to loosely use images from various religions to attempt to supply a frame to communicate. . .and often that is with an infants fledgling use of language. . . also the reason i made the distinction of crucifixion with a small " c " . .. .is i have experienced both. . .one as you aptly write of a new birth. .. .and one a few years later when i went into a " Christian based " church that hooked into my energetics. . . for me it was an excruciating ordeal that lasted for over two years that in my language it was experienced as an energetic crucifixion. . .and the Ministers that where attempting the " cruxifixion " where following The Book of Truth a Gnostic text. . .where the " christ " is crucified and then with the hope that when i went through complete cessation of the ego then the entire 800 member church would rise on the K Ma energetic . . . so once again because of my experience did not want to create any anxiety for Julie based on my use of langage and the reference to the " cross " as was made reference to in the quote. . . as i sense Julie is in a phase of intense transformation. . .and there are places where K Ma can be frightening because of uncharted territory. . .also made the differentation because many of the stories of the Saints also went through intense physical experiences associated with their experience of the cross. . . the please know it was not my intent to suggest something that was not in alignment with your view of spirituality. . . honor to you and all that you believe that makes it possible for your to become all that your Saviour and Lord desires you to be, dear Sister love and honor ordinary sparrow , " Linda " <crazycats711 wrote: > > Hello Sparrow, for me the crucifixion/cross does represent the lying down of the ego self, willingly, and then rising up a new spiritual being. We each have our own cross/crucifixion to bear. > > The crucifixion of Christ Jesus was done as a sacrifice to take away/remove the sins/karma of all mankind. That was his gift to us, his great love for us all. Excepting his gifts means we have no more condemation/no more karma to pay. Of course, each has the choice of trying to balance out their karma their own way. Every last bit of karma has to be paid in full though, before one is to evolve from spiritual man to godman. That is the way I see it. That is why Christ Jesus said his yoke is easy. Surrendering/yoking ourself with Christ Jesus also means the Holy Spirit is given to those that ask, who empowers us to do the will of God, who protects and guides us in the way we should go. I am still not totally convinced that the Holy Spirit and K-ma are one and the same, but can except it as an aspect of it. > > There are many christians who only except the gift of salvation(the forgiveness of sin), but do not ever seek the gift of the Holy Spirit, so they stay as carnal christian partaking only the milk of the word. Some stay as infants in Christ their whole life, with only a minimal advancement in spirituality. > > That is the way I way I understand from a christian point of view. > > Linda > > , " ordinarysparrow " ordinarysparrow@ wrote: > . . . .let me add the cross for me was there but the experience was not in anyway a crucifixion, rather a slouffingoff of an old reality and a birthing of a new way of being. . . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Have you ever read the Nag Hammadi library? It's pretty interesting. In the gnostic texts, Jesus actually never was crucified. He merely laughed, invisible beside them, at their stupidity. Interesting reading the Gnostic Christian texts =) -Tiffany S. , " Linda " <crazycats711 wrote: > > Hello Sparrow, for me the crucifixion/cross does represent the lying down of the ego self, willingly, and then rising up a new spiritual being. We each have our own cross/crucifixion to bear. > > The crucifixion of Christ Jesus was done as a sacrifice to take away/remove the sins/karma of all mankind. That was his gift to us, his great love for us all. Excepting his gifts means we have no more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Namaste dear Tiffany i have read a number from the Nag Hammadi . . and there are many Gnostic texts found there as well as other sources and places prior Nag Hammadi. . . with different narratives coming forth concerning the crucifixion or non-crucifixion of Jesus. . .of course many are considered heretical by modern Christianity. . . as for my situation, when i read the Book of Truth i see it as an inner personal symbolic guide that uses Christian language to describe the or a process very similar to Kundalini Awakening . . . .where as the ministers took an internal process and tried to create an externalization. . . .that is where i think things can go a bit strange. .. . . truly was just trying to support Julia, and do not feel comfortable in a theological discussion, for when i read sacred texts these days am reading it energetically rather from a view of traditional of religious beliefs. . .truly do not want to offend anyones beliefs or how they interpet the Bible. . love to all ordinary sparrow , " angelikdementia " <angelikdementia wrote: > > Have you ever read the Nag Hammadi library? It's pretty interesting. In the gnostic texts, Jesus actually never was crucified. He merely laughed, invisible beside them, at their stupidity. > > Interesting reading the Gnostic Christian texts =) > > -Tiffany S. > > , " Linda " crazycats711@ wrote: > > > > Hello Sparrow, for me the crucifixion/cross does represent the lying down of the ego self, willingly, and then rising up a new spiritual being. We each have our own cross/crucifixion to bear. > > > > The crucifixion of Christ Jesus was done as a sacrifice to take away/remove the sins/karma of all mankind. That was his gift to us, his great love for us all. Excepting his gifts means we have no more > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Oh yeah I hear you... I don't want to offend anyone either. Was just bringing up something interesting. Kind of like, you know, thought provoking. Sometimes I forget how easily offended people can be regarding their faith. Oops. Creating dissent was not my intention. I swear! LOL =) Sorry if anyone feels offended. I don't want to get into a theological debate either (no no) Was not going against what they said either. I respect peoples perspectives Christian or not. If it serves them well, who am I to tell them they are wrong? Not that I am saying it is wrong... ugh... nevermind! LOL. **Inserts foot in mouth** -Tiffany S. , " ordinarysparrow " <ordinarysparrow wrote: > > truly was just trying to support Julia, and do not feel comfortable in a > theological discussion, for when i read sacred texts these days am > reading it energetically rather from a view of traditional of religious > beliefs. . .truly do not want to offend anyones beliefs or how they > interpet the Bible. . > > love to all > ordinary sparrow > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Sorry Sparrow, I guess I should not have written that. I feel like I have affended you. That was not my intent at all. Sorry! I was not affended by what your wrote. I just thought I would share my view about the crucifixion is all. I need to be more careful what I write. I am truly sorry. I did not mean to affend you. Linda , " ordinarysparrow " <ordinarysparrow wrote: > > Namaste > > dear Linda > > as always honor to you. . .i can only share and write from own > perspective. . .and perhaps i need to write that each time i make a > post. . . we have each written that so many times, thought it was > understood that we each write from our unique frame. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Interesting to hear your opinions Sparrow and Linda on this subject x x x I can see both your points beautifully. thanks girls love elektra x x x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I know I said I would not reply and only read and read but I couldn't resist... Hi Linda.. What you say is very interesting... I think the Holy spirit is quite neglected in Christianity... well there is the sacrement of Confirmation (or Chrismation in the eastern churches) but outside of that cermoney I think we (as a grouping) sort of pay little enough attention to the Holy Spirit. I too am not sure if Kundalini and Holy Spirit are one and the same..... I know it is spoken as if it is the same and I too use the two names to mean the same/ one experience... but in all honesty I am not ceretain that they arr the same... I am not certain that they are not either..LOL Confusion reigns as per usual!! I sosmetimes get a very strong sence that Kundalin is definitly involved with the physiological while the Holy Spirit is more involved with the Spiritual... but that " knowing " is transitory and I do not dwell on it. I think what ever our beliefs are they are challenged... I am interested (when I have the time and the space in my brain to ponder) in the difference between belief and truth.... O I feel a Sat. night deep thought session coming on ..LOL One of these days I am going to KNOW and I am going to be able to say what is what;;;HE HE!! Anyway I am now not writing again and just reading... Thanks for sharing Love Julia. ________________________________ Linda <crazycats711 Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:15:57 PM Crucifixion/birth of new -Sparrow .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Dear sparrow...... I do not have time to re read the response by Linda but I think she was only stating her own view point and not reacting to your post at all.... I did not pick up that she was offended at all... excuse all this if ye have disscussed it in the posts I have not yet read but I wanted to respond.... Sparrow your post was full of love and concern and the truth of you shone through it like the sun. This is very unchartered waters and I am very grateful for your words . by the way I actually read that post you put here about your experience with the " christian based " (NOT) church. It was quite horrific and I was filled with sorrow and admiration for how you managed during this trial of 2 years. You said that you would post again at a later stage.... I think it would be a very valuable experience for members to read of your story during that time... Do you think you could post it again? Much love to you and to Linda...Julia. ________________________________ ordinarysparrow <ordinarysparrow Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:57:48 PM Re: Crucifixion/birth of new -Sparrow Namaste dear Linda so once again because of my experience did not want to create any anxiety for Julie based on my use of langage and the reference to the " cross " as was made reference to in the quote. . . as i sense Julie is in a phase of intense transformation. . .and there are places where K Ma can be frightening because of uncharted territory. . . .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Ok guys... Jesus was crucified,,, and ... millions of jews were exterminated during the second world war. Some books are full of Sh7t. Love Julia ________________________________ ordinarysparrow <ordinarysparrow Wednesday, July 8, 2009 11:47:43 PM Re: Crucifixion/birth of new -Sparrow Namaste dear Tiffany i have read a number from the Nag Hammadi . . and there are many Gnostic texts found there as well as other sources and places prior Nag Hammadi. . . with different narratives coming forth concerning the crucifixion or non-crucifixion of Jesus. . .of course many are considered heretical by modern Christianity. . . as for my situation, when i read the Book of Truth i see it as an inner personal symbolic guide that uses Christian language to describe the or a process very similar to Kundalini Awakening . . . .where as the ministers took an internal process and tried to create an externalization. . . .that is where i think things can go a bit strange. .. . . truly was just trying to support Julia, and do not feel comfortable in a theological discussion, for when i read sacred texts these days am reading it energetically rather from a view of traditional of religious beliefs. . .truly do not want to offend anyones beliefs or how they interpet the Bible. . love to all ordinary sparrow Kundalini-Awakening -Systems- 1 , " angelikdementia " <angelikdementia@ ...> wrote: > > Have you ever read the Nag Hammadi library? It's pretty interesting. In the gnostic texts, Jesus actually never was crucified. He merely laughed, invisible beside them, at their stupidity. > > Interesting reading the Gnostic Christian texts =) > > -Tiffany S. > > Kundalini-Awakening -Systems- 1 , " Linda " crazycats711@ wrote: > > > > Hello Sparrow, for me the crucifixion/ cross does represent the lying down of the ego self, willingly, and then rising up a new spiritual being. We each have our own cross/crucifixion to bear. > > > > The crucifixion of Christ Jesus was done as a sacrifice to take away/remove the sins/karma of all mankind. That was his gift to us, his great love for us all. Excepting his gifts means we have no more > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Ouch. I am speechless. Going to take some time to myself for awhile. Love and blessings to all. -Tiffany S. , Julia Ahern <jajahern wrote: > > Ok guys... Jesus was crucified,,, and ... millions of jews were exterminated during the second world war. > Some books are full of Sh7t. Love Julia > > > > > ________________________________ > ordinarysparrow <ordinarysparrow > > Wednesday, July 8, 2009 11:47:43 PM > Re: Crucifixion/birth of new -Sparrow > > > > > > Namaste > > dear Tiffany > > i have read a number from the Nag Hammadi . . and there are many > Gnostic texts found there as well as other sources and places prior Nag > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I agree, Julia. Love, dhyana , Julia Ahern <jajahern wrote: > > Ok guys... Jesus was crucified,,, and ... millions of jews were exterminated during the second world war. > Some books are full of Sh7t. Love Julia > > > > > ________________________________ > ordinarysparrow <ordinarysparrow > > Wednesday, July 8, 2009 11:47:43 PM > Re: Crucifixion/birth of new -Sparrow > > > > > > Namaste > > dear Tiffany > > i have read a number from the Nag Hammadi . . and there are many > Gnostic texts found there as well as other sources and places prior Nag > Hammadi. . . with different narratives coming forth concerning the > crucifixion or non-crucifixion of Jesus. . .of course many are > considered heretical by modern Christianity. . . > > as for my situation, when i read the Book of Truth i see it as an inner > personal symbolic guide that uses Christian language to describe the or > a process very similar to Kundalini Awakening . . . .where as the > ministers took an internal process and tried to create an > externalization. . . .that is where i think things can go a bit strange. > . . . > > truly was just trying to support Julia, and do not feel comfortable in a > theological discussion, for when i read sacred texts these days am > reading it energetically rather from a view of traditional of religious > beliefs. . .truly do not want to offend anyones beliefs or how they > interpet the Bible. . > > love to all > ordinary sparrow > > Kundalini-Awakening -Systems- 1 , " angelikdementia " > <angelikdementia@ ...> wrote: > > > > Have you ever read the Nag Hammadi library? It's pretty interesting. > In the gnostic texts, Jesus actually never was crucified. He merely > laughed, invisible beside them, at their stupidity. > > > > Interesting reading the Gnostic Christian texts =) > > > > -Tiffany S. > > > > Kundalini-Awakening -Systems- 1 , " Linda " > crazycats711@ wrote: > > > > > > Hello Sparrow, for me the crucifixion/ cross does represent the lying > down of the ego self, willingly, and then rising up a new spiritual > being. We each have our own cross/crucifixion to bear. > > > > > > The crucifixion of Christ Jesus was done as a sacrifice to take > away/remove the sins/karma of all mankind. That was his gift to us, his > great love for us all. Excepting his gifts means we have no more > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Namaste. . .the light in me honors the light in you sometimes i wished we could hear each others voice, so will try to describe my own. . . my voice is soft with a bit of Texas accent that i have not managed to loose, and the heart is open and am still in process with more questions than answers. . . Julie thanks for your kind words and my heart trust what each person has brought forth to mend this rift of misunderstanding and communication. Julie, Linda, Dhyanna and Tiffany. . .i feel clear. . .and because of that i know each person is also clear in all the places that really count. . . trust it is a process and each person is peeling through what needs to be peeled. . .. . . i so trust each person's hearts and also give thanks to those that are listening in as we peel through these layers thanks for your patience . . . .i am not going to discount this conflict as all ego even though i know it is of the egoic level for myself because i trust K Ma has brought forth some issues that need to be surfaced for healing and release. . . Linda the frustratinh thing for me was what i thought i was communicated was not the one being heard. . . was attempting to give an explanation of the choice of words and set a boundary for i did not feel comfortable taking about religious beliefs. . .and it was a boundary for me not a boundary against you Linda. . . at an energetic level it must of come across stronger than i was conscious of. . . but none the less conscious or unconscious i take responsibility for communicating too little or too much. . . i had a horse for a Mom and when she set boundaries it had an energetic force that was greater than her laid back ears and her barred grass stained teeth. . . perhaps that got tangled up with K Ma and that could well been experienced an energetic bump. . . .. . .sorry. . . Linda thanks for sharing of your experiential with K Ma and masculine Holy Spirit energy, that gives lots of clarity. . .sounds like we share some similar childhood dynamics and so understand how the spiritual can be the mainstay that kept us together and sane. it is now 6:30 am and cannot sleep. . .thinking about Tiffany and my heart is with her also. . . my heart has taken Tiffany in and pray she makes the decision to return. . . keep remembering Tiffany's experience with Christianity and her Mom and how she was shamed for not believing as was pronounced. . .i have re-read Tiffany's responses and do not think she was trying to provoke or mock but rather assert there many accounts. .. .I trust Tiffany's heart and intent. . . when Tiffany first shared with us about the connection with the diversity of her beliefs i was a bit taken back, and then checked with K Ma and all i could do was smile for know she is " good stuff " . . . this evening as i am laying back reflecting something come up and would like to share a story along with a question. . .it is not theological in nature but rather the psychological aspects of Christianity and perhaps other religions as well. . .This is a question i am trying to live to an answer. . . " Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves. Do not search for the answers that could be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps, then some day far in the future, you will gradually , without even knowing it, live your way to the answer. " Rainer Maria Rilke this story expresses the energetic print i have thougth about for many years leaving me with a question; I grew up in Texas in ranch country. . . I had a nearby Aunt and Uncle, a ranch family. . .they had four boys, they where not a religious family, but when the youngest child Jakie was five years old Aunt Bobbie decided it was time to for Jackie to go to Sunday School for the first time on Easter Sunday. . .This was back in the days when Ponderosa was a western T.V. series and very popular in the ranchlands . . .Ponderosa was about a ranch father with three sons, and one of the sons was Hoss Cartright. Hoss Cartright was a big guy and he wore a ten gallon cowboy hat and that was little Jackie's hero. . .Jackie always wore a hat and boots like Hoss and Jackie was a big little boy. . . Bobbie informed Jackie she was going to take him to church, Jackie gave a protest but agreed to go if he could wear his hat and cowboy boots. Jackie was taken to Sunday School and his teacher was Melba. This is the story that Melba tells about Jackie. . . " Jackie came in and sat down in the small kinder chair that he was too big for. . .She asked him if he wanted to take his hat off, but he declined and stated he needed to keep his hat on. . .Melba began to tell the Easter story. . .Jesus was seized by the authorities, beaten and scorned, then placed on the cross, his feet where nailed and then both hands where nailed, he was given a crown of thorns and blood ran down his face, and then when he was thirsty he was given vinegar as his friends and Mother stood by and could not help him. . .Melba said she was completely into the narrative of the passion when she looked up and saw that Jackie was sitting with huge tears running down his checks. . . ..Melba stopped and asked Jackie, " What is the matter? " She said Jackie took off his Hoss hat and placed it over his heart in the way that cowboys do to show respect at a funeral of a fellow cowboy, he cleared his deep gruff little voice and wiped the tears, then said; " Those God damn Son of a Bitches would not of done that if Roy Rogers would of been there. " ( For those not in the States Roy Rogers movie star hero, a old time Western that always wore white,always got the bad guy.) Jackie grew up an became a big Texas Lawman and continues to notches his belt each time he draws fire at a bad guy. . .and he puts so much energy into getting the bad guys. . . When i first heard this story, had mixed reaction. . .one was the humor of his inappropriate response in Sunday School and the other was the tragedyof his response. . . My open question without its answer has been is it possible for a child's psyche to handle the story of the crucifixion at a early age? And what does the psyche do with such a message? I often think of one of the most profound psychological insights; " The inability to withstand ambiguity leads to splitting " . . . What could be more difficult to reconcile for a small child than the message, Jesus died for your sins, and because of your sins he was crucified. . ..Nowadays i hope there is greater sensitivity to children's psyche, but during our time period for many of us there was not that kind of sensitivity. . .Would not most children be like little Jackie?. . . be so moved into the sorrow and brutality of the story so much that it could split or bruise the psyche at some unconcious level. . .leaving the child with something like i love this guy and he suffered so and i would never do something to cause some one to be crucified. . . there fore since i would not do this i must be good and who ever that did this must be the bad guy. . .therefore i will be like Roy Rogers and i will defend my Savior that loved me so much that he would die for me? Or maybe some children would say, heck with this, i can never match up for my sins killed him. . .Or maybe others would say; this is nuts and i am out of here. . . This is a story showing a Christian narrative and the possible conflict for a child that is not mature enough to keep from splitting, and know there are other religions that also have gone to war over beliefs. . ..Why do we as human psyches defend our Savior even to the point of killing other people? Somehow through the years of peeling this simple story i have realized that i do not need to defend that which can never be tainted or destroyed in any way. . . The question. . .what is the psychological root of religious strife that has torn our world apart so many times? Can we that have had a very minor skirmish look at the microcosm and try to examine the greater issue? Would this be beneficial or would it only cause deeper misunderstanding? I am still living this question at risk as Rilke would encourage. . .Can we live this question together into harmony and unity? Just some late night pondering and hope at this hour it is clear enough to convey my heart and intent. . love and peace ordinary sparrow , Julia Ahern <jajahern wrote: > > Dear sparrow...... I do not have time to re read the response by Linda but I think she was only stating her own view point and not reacting to your post at all.... I did not pick up that she was offended at all... excuse all this if ye have disscussed it in the posts I have not yet read but I wanted to respond.... > Sparrow your post was full of love and concern and the truth of you shone through it like the sun. This is very unchartered waters and I am very grateful for your words . by the way I actually read that post you put here about your experience with the " christian based " (NOT) church. It was quite horrific and I was filled with sorrow and admiration for how you managed during this trial of 2 years. You said that you would post again at a later stage.... I think it would be a very valuable experience for members to read of your story during that time... Do you think you could post it again? > Much love to you and to Linda...Julia. > > > > > ________________________________ > ordinarysparrow ordinarysparrow > > Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:57:48 PM > Re: Crucifixion/birth of new -Sparrow > > > > > > Namaste > > dear Linda > > > so once again because of my experience did not want to create any > anxiety for Julie based on my use of langage and the reference to the > " cross " as was made reference to in the quote. . . as i sense Julie is > in a phase of intense transformation. . .and there are places where K Ma > can be frightening because of uncharted territory. . . > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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