Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Hi and All, Wow. I have been given a hard task to do. If someone had asked me to take on this test/task I would have refused it but it is here facing me and I want to share it with others who will understand. Some may know that I work part-time as a Spiritual Adviser to a group of people who are of various faiths. I had a few problems with the manager at first as his ways and manners left a lot to be desired. As I got to know him I found his heart was in the right place and he was good at his job. He and his girl friend had a baby girl 4 mths ago and this Saturday I am conducting a Naming Ceremony for her. Over 70 people are attending. As our meetings are held in the office next to their home I see the baby all the time. I had noticed that their house was not very clean but as I've been told I'm & nal about cleaning, I guessed it was just me being fussy. I had also noticed over time that the baby was not thriving and many times she looked as if she was dead. Luckily the Child Services, Midwife and Social workers got involved and baby went into hospital. After two days the baby was let out and given a regime for feeding and regular Child Authority visits. I learnt from others that they had fed the 9wk old baby ice cream and bread. She showed improvement for a few weeks but then took another down turn. As I held her one day I could see bruises on her face and neck. That was two weeks ago and I never commented on it as I knew they were being watched by authorities. Last week the poor mite was taken into hospital again. She is malnourished, bruised, dirty and has a broken rib. I'm in tears as I write this as and some may know that child abuse is something close to my heart and in my own childhood. I work hard to raise money for such children, and recently raised 200 UK pounds for them by cutting off 20yrs growth of dreadlocks. As I am still the Spiritual Adviser the manager has been calling me for support in times of stress and trouble. No one has been there for him. On one hand I want to shout at him for the treatment of the baby. To scream at him and take the baby away from them for ever and make sure they never have another child. There was a meeting today at the baby's hospital and 20 officials turned up to support the baby, whereas the manager & girlfriend had no one. Now they have asked me to support them at the next meeting. What can I do? I found out today that manager & girlfriend were not bought up very well themselves and have no idea how to look after a baby. Everything they have done wrong has been partly due to ignorance and having bad parents themselves. It's like children having children and while I 100%agreeee that the baby is being abused, it has not been out of malicece but ignorance and inability to even look after themselves properly. So if you had asked me to support a couple found to be abusing their child my answer would have been " NO WAY " . But what other answer is there? I feel I should help them but what they have done is awful. HELP Please. Blessings, Iona x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 But ignorance does not explain away bruises on a baby.......why are you wrestling with this? you CANNOT stand up for these people. A four month old baby given ice cream and bread? Iona, if you help these people and this baby dies, how will you feel? this is an innocent angel who cannot take up for herself.....trust your first instinct with this person. it was very strong, if i remember correctly.......a broken rib? you MUST speak up. this child has been entrusted to you....possibly why you are still there??? i pray that you have the strength to do the right thing. you know what that is......... DAMN!!!!! this breaks my heart....... Julie --- On Mon, 11/9/09, iona winton <ionaskydancer wrote: iona winton <ionaskydancer Child Abu & e " Kundalini Awakening " Monday, November 9, 2009, 4:16 PM  Hi and All,  Wow. I have been given a hard task to do. If someone had asked me to take on this test/task I would have refused it but it is here facing me and I want to share it with others who will understand. Some may know that I work part-time as a Spiritual Adviser to a group of people who are of various faiths. I had a few problems with the manager at first as his ways and manners left a lot to be desired. As I got to know him I found his heart was in the right place and he was good at his job.  He and his girl friend had a baby girl 4 mths ago and this Saturday I am conducting a Naming Ceremony for her. Over 70 people are attending. As our meetings are held in the office next to their home I see the baby all the time. I had noticed that their house was not very clean but as I've been told I'm & nal about cleaning, I guessed it was just me being fussy. I had also noticed over time that the baby was not thriving and many times she looked as if she was dead.  Luckily the Child Services, Midwife and Social workers got involved and baby went into hospital. After two days the baby was let out and given a regime for feeding and regular Child Authority visits. I learnt from others that they had fed the 9wk old baby ice cream and bread. She showed improvement for a few weeks but then took another down turn. As I held her one day I could see bruises on her face and neck.  That was two weeks ago and I never commented on it as I knew they were being watched by authorities. Last week the poor mite was taken into hospital again. She is malnourished, bruised, dirty and has a broken rib. I'm in tears as I write this as and some may know that child abuse is something close to my heart and in my own childhood. I work hard to raise money for such children, and recently raised 200 UK pounds for them by cutting off 20yrs growth of dreadlocks.  As I am still the Spiritual Adviser the manager has been calling me for support in times of stress and trouble. No one has been there for him. On one hand I want to shout at him for the treatment of the baby. To scream at him and take the baby away from them for ever and make sure they never have another child. There was a meeting today at the baby's hospital and 20 officials turned up to support the baby, whereas the manager & girlfriend had no one. Now they have asked me to support them at the next meeting. What can I do?  I found out today that manager & girlfriend were not bought up very well themselves and have no idea how to look after a baby. Everything they have done wrong has been partly due to ignorance and having bad parents themselves. It's like children having children and while I 100%agreeee that the baby is being abused, it has not been out of malicece but ignorance and inability to even look after themselves properly.  So if you had asked me to support a couple found to be abusing their child my answer would have been " NO WAY " . But what other answer is there? I feel I should help them but what they have done is awful.  HELP Please.  Blessings, Iona x     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Iona, you said " it has not been out of malicece but ignorance and inability to even look after themselves properly " That may be true as child abuse usually begets child abuse unless consciousness enters the picture but with that said, imho, protecting this baby would be my first priority. this child sounds like it has been close to death twice. flashing forward, I would be concerned about what would happen to the child if I didn't step in in some form or fashion. and bruises, a broken rib, are beyond neglect. my <emotional> two-cents worth, love and blessings, Jan , iona winton <ionaskydancer wrote: > > Hi and All, > > Wow. I have been given a hard task to do. If someone had asked me to take on this test/task I would have refused it but it is here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 IONA this is why we have protection services to remove children to places of safety. Richard. ionaskydancer Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:16:08 +0000 Child Abu & e Hi and All, Wow. I have been given a hard task to do. If someone had asked me to take on this test/task I would have refused it but it is here facing me and I want to share it with others who will understand. Some may know that I work part-time as a Spiritual Adviser to a group of people who are of various faiths. I had a few problems with the manager at first as his ways and manners left a lot to be desired. As I got to know him I found his heart was in the right place and he was good at his job. He and his girl friend had a baby girl 4 mths ago and this Saturday I am conducting a Naming Ceremony for her. Over 70 people are attending. As our meetings are held in the office next to their home I see the baby all the time. I had noticed that their house was not very clean but as I've been told I'm & nal about cleaning, I guessed it was just me being fussy. I had also noticed over time that the baby was not thriving and many times she looked as if she was dead. Luckily the Child Services, Midwife and Social workers got involved and baby went into hospital. After two days the baby was let out and given a regime for feeding and regular Child Authority visits. I learnt from others that they had fed the 9wk old baby ice cream and bread. She showed improvement for a few weeks but then took another down turn. As I held her one day I could see bruises on her face and neck. That was two weeks ago and I never commented on it as I knew they were being watched by authorities. Last week the poor mite was taken into hospital again. She is malnourished, bruised, dirty and has a broken rib. I'm in tears as I write this as and some may know that child abuse is something close to my heart and in my own childhood. I work hard to raise money for such children, and recently raised 200 UK pounds for them by cutting off 20yrs growth of dreadlocks. As I am still the Spiritual Adviser the manager has been calling me for support in times of stress and trouble. No one has been there for him. On one hand I want to shout at him for the treatment of the baby. To scream at him and take the baby away from them for ever and make sure they never have another child. There was a meeting today at the baby's hospital and 20 officials turned up to support the baby, whereas the manager & girlfriend had no one. Now they have asked me to support them at the next meeting. What can I do? I found out today that manager & girlfriend were not bought up very well themselves and have no idea how to look after a baby. Everything they have done wrong has been partly due to ignorance and having bad parents themselves. It's like children having children and while I 100%agreeee that the baby is being abused, it has not been out of malicece but ignorance and inability to even look after themselves properly. So if you had asked me to support a couple found to be abusing their child my answer would have been " NO WAY " . But what other answer is there? I feel I should help them but what they have done is awful. HELP Please. Blessings, Iona x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Iona... I think it all depends on what " supporting " your manager means If that support means that he wants you to say that he should have his baby returned to him and his girlfriend then I think you would be acting incorrectly to give that support. If support means that you can show him compassion as he now struggles with the concequences of his  appaling behaviour to his child, then I think this could be to act correctly and with the compassion and love. To feel empathy with them because of their own upbringing is understandable and perhaps you understand some of the dynamics that can manifest in adults behaving like this. But Iona their behaviour was not ok will continue to be not ok not matter what they say now. I think it is possible to reject the behaviour and support the person. Rejecting the behaviour would mean knowing that it is not appropriate for them to have theri baby returned to them now.. I am wondering how someone with the title of manager and who obviously earns his living as a manager cannot then manage himself. he needs help and support and compassion but his child needs love and a safe place to grow and develop. My prayers are with you that you make the correct choice. Love Julia ________________________________ iona winton <ionaskydancer Kundalini Awakening Mon, November 9, 2009 10:16:08 PM Child Abu & e  Hi and All,  Wow. I have been given a hard task to do. If someone had asked me to take on this test/task I would have refused it but it is here facing me and I want to share it with others who will understand. Some may know that I work part-time as a Spiritual Adviser to a group of people who are of various faiths. I had a few problems with the manager at first as his ways and manners left a lot to be desired. As I got to know him I found his heart was in the right place and he was good at his job.  He and his girl friend had a baby girl 4 mths ago and this Saturday I am conducting a Naming Ceremony for her. Over 70 people are attending. As our meetings are held in the office next to their home I see the baby all the time. I had noticed that their house was not very clean but as I've been told I'm & nal about cleaning, I guessed it was just me being fussy. I had also noticed over time that the baby was not thriving and many times she looked as if she was dead.  Luckily the Child Services, Midwife and Social workers got involved and baby went into hospital. After two days the baby was let out and given a regime for feeding and regular Child Authority visits. I learnt from others that they had fed the 9wk old baby ice cream and bread. She showed improvement for a few weeks but then took another down turn. As I held her one day I could see bruises on her face and neck.  That was two weeks ago and I never commented on it as I knew they were being watched by authorities. Last week the poor mite was taken into hospital again. She is malnourished, bruised, dirty and has a broken rib. I'm in tears as I write this as and some may know that child abuse is something close to my heart and in my own childhood. I work hard to raise money for such children, and recently raised 200 UK pounds for them by cutting off 20yrs growth of dreadlocks.  As I am still the Spiritual Adviser the manager has been calling me for support in times of stress and trouble. No one has been there for him. On one hand I want to shout at him for the treatment of the baby. To scream at him and take the baby away from them for ever and make sure they never have another child. There was a meeting today at the baby's hospital and 20 officials turned up to support the baby, whereas the manager & girlfriend had no one. Now they have asked me to support them at the next meeting. What can I do?  I found out today that manager & girlfriend were not bought up very well themselves and have no idea how to look after a baby. Everything they have done wrong has been partly due to ignorance and having bad parents themselves. It's like children having children and while I 100%agreeee that the baby is being abused, it has not been out of malicece but ignorance and inability to even look after themselves properly.  So if you had asked me to support a couple found to be abusing their child my answer would have been " NO WAY " . But what other answer is there? I feel I should help them but what they have done is awful.  HELP Please.  Blessings, Iona x     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Iona, As I am moving towards the path of a spiritual counselor, I know that the spiritual mentors I work with, have the own spiritual mentors, just for this reason, as they are human and feel things deeply, and it is hard at times to see the divinity in it all. You can support a person with love and compassion as a spiritual advisor, leaving judgment aside, and still do the right thing for the child--two very distinct areas. I am sure it will not be up to you to decide where the child goes. Not taking sides, but being honest with your observations to the proper authorities--doing what is right for the child, and demonstrating the God qualities that spiritual advisors bring forth to their clients. I know that the answer will come forth in a divine way for you to hear! Peace and blessings, Lorree , iona winton <ionaskydancer wrote: > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Iona, I think sometimes Life calls on us to bear witness to horror. And for those who have lived through horror, sometimes Life calls on us to stand both as a mirror and a bridge, recognizing that " there, but by the grace of God, go I. " And, I think, sometimes it calls on us to stand holding the lightning bolt -- to illuminate suffering, to burn away the scarring we wrap around our own hearts, and to pierce the boil. I think you are being called, Iona. You know how it is to suffer, and perhaps even to grow numb to our own pain, and to wake up, and to scream. You also know how it is to love unconditionally, to hold compassion. But perhaps it is the lightning bolt which has got you now, burning a hole in your hand, causing you to pause and question yourself. I say go support your friend. Be there for him. But rather than give him a shoulder to lean on, lift up your hand, Iona, and let that lightning bolt pierce you both. Let it illuminate the suffering, so that he can feel his own and find compassion for this tiny innocent soul who came to change his life. Be there for him, but not in the way he asks. Be there as a mirror, to help him see the abused child who lives within him, hidden behind walls of amnesia and pain. Be there as a bridge, helping him accept the services and teachings and support the child protective system has to offer. But more than anything, be there as a lightning bolt, saying NO MORE OF THIS! WAKE UP AND LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE! Hold his feet to the fire, Iona, but lovingly, steadily, compassionately, knowing that each of us has done this, in some form or fashion, in some lifetime or another, and that it is only by the grace of God that we have learned another way. Peace, Shaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Iona, To me it looks like Shakti custom-engineered this situation as a learning and transcending experience for you. I would say - follow your heart. Ask Shakti what to do. These kinds of cases can become highly charged emotionally for all involved and much vitriole can fly. This is an opportunity to practice the safeties - love, compassion, forgiveness, recapitulation, etc., etc. To flow through this as an emissary of the Goddess, letting her work through you. Perhaps also to provide healing prayer for all the souls involved. Can't say much more than that - I think this is the attitude I would try to cultivate. Use this as an opportunity to work on your own practice and self-transcendence.... Love and blessings, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009  Dear Iona, My support and prayers are with you and this child. My fear and anger comes from the many times that " the system " fails these poor children.Children are allowed back into homes where they are continued to be harmed and eventually die. The problem exceeds the resources available to " the system. "  A perfect example is the poor young woman who was held hostage, forced to go through rape, and bear two children to a psychotic men who held her captive in his back yard. This went on for 18 years. It is all over the news in the United States. This man was on parole for kidnapping and rape, and had regular visits from his parole officer. Because the parole office failed to go into the man's back yard, where the young women were being held like animals, this travesty was allowed to continue for this long period of time.. This has brought various responses, as you asked for, and various ways of delivering the same message. If there is any way possible for you to help this child, please do so. Prayers for you, strength for you, support for you, and most of all, for this baby and her family. May we all unite. A life may depend on it. Blessings,  HELP Please.  Blessings, Iona x     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Iona, People have to take responsibility for their actions, and bear the consequences of them. Protect the victim in this case. Love, Sandra , iona winton <ionaskydancer wrote: > > Hi and All, > > Wow. I have been given a hard task to do. If someone had asked me to take on this test/task I would have refused it but it is here facing me and I want to share it with others who will understand. Some may know that I work part-time as a Spiritual Adviser to a group of people who are of various faiths. I had a few problems with the manager at first as his ways and manners left a lot to be desired. As I got to know him I found his heart was in the right place and he was good at his job. > > He and his girl friend had a baby girl 4 mths ago and this Saturday I am conducting a Naming Ceremony for her. Over 70 people are attending. As our meetings are held in the office next to their home I see the baby all the time. I had noticed that their house was not very clean but as I've been told I'm & nal about cleaning, I guessed it was just me being fussy. I had also noticed over time that the baby was not thriving and many times she looked as if she was dead. > > Luckily the Child Services, Midwife and Social workers got involved and baby went into hospital. After two days the baby was let out and given a regime for feeding and regular Child Authority visits. I learnt from others that they had fed the 9wk old baby ice cream and bread. She showed improvement for a few weeks but then took another down turn. As I held her one day I could see bruises on her face and neck. > > That was two weeks ago and I never commented on it as I knew they were being watched by authorities. Last week the poor mite was taken into hospital again. She is malnourished, bruised, dirty and has a broken rib. I'm in tears as I write this as and some may know that child abuse is something close to my heart and in my own childhood. I work hard to raise money for such children, and recently raised 200 UK pounds for them by cutting off 20yrs growth of dreadlocks. > > As I am still the Spiritual Adviser the manager has been calling me for support in times of stress and trouble. No one has been there for him. On one hand I want to shout at him for the treatment of the baby. To scream at him and take the baby away from them for ever and make sure they never have another child. There was a meeting today at the baby's hospital and 20 officials turned up to support the baby, whereas the manager & girlfriend had no one. Now they have asked me to support them at the next meeting. What can I do? > > I found out today that manager & girlfriend were not bought up very well themselves and have no idea how to look after a baby. Everything they have done wrong has been partly due to ignorance and having bad parents themselves. It's like children having children and while I 100%agreeee that the baby is being abused, it has not been out of malicece but ignorance and inability to even look after themselves properly. > > So if you had asked me to support a couple found to be abusing their child my answer would have been " NO WAY " . But what other answer is there? I feel I should help them but what they have done is awful. > > HELP Please. > > Blessings, Iona x > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Hi Iona, I especially agree with Julia on this point. What arises for me is a cycle of victimization being reproduced. By the manager and his gf claiming that they have good intentions but have had bad parenting and are ignorant, they are saying that they themselves are victims and its not their fault. Hitting a 4 month old baby to the point of being bruised is not acceptable. yes, there are reasons why that behaviour happens and which need to be understood (and embraced with compassion, which you seem to be doing beautifully), and there is also the call to hold the parents up to their highest potential, which is one of care and due diligence and love in raising their child. If by this point they havent been proactive in seeking out help, reading books and figuring out how to raise the baby, and if they cant control themselves under times of stress and lash out at the poor child, then it will most likely be dangerous for the child to stay with them as the cycle is repeated. yes, people are remorseful after doing wrong, yet that remorse doesnt solve the root cause of the hurt that is being caused. The pain body will rear its head again and the parents will react from that place again and the baby will be furthur hurt. My gut tells me that there is a tremendous cycle of disempowerment in that family, and its best to get the baby out of there. My other suggestion would be to act from a place of clarity, to find within yourself all these roles that are being presented to you, including the roles of victim/victimiser, responsible/irresponsible self, etc... love Bruce , Julia Ahern <jajahern wrote: > > Dear Iona... > > I think it all depends on what " supporting " your manager means > If that support means that he wants you to say that he should have his baby returned to him and his girlfriend then I think you would be acting incorrectly to give that support. > If support means that you can show him compassion as he now struggles with the concequences of his  appaling behaviour to his child, then I think this could be to act correctly and with the compassion and love. > To feel empathy with them because of their own upbringing is understandable and perhaps you understand some of the dynamics that can manifest in adults behaving like this. But Iona their behaviour was not ok will continue to be not ok not matter what they say now. > I think it is possible to reject the behaviour and support the person. Rejecting the behaviour would mean knowing that it is not appropriate for them to have theri baby returned to them now.. > I am wondering how someone with the title of manager and who obviously earns his living as a manager cannot then manage himself. he needs help and support and compassion but his child needs love and a safe place to grow and develop. > My prayers are with you that you make the correct choice. > Love Julia > > > > > ________________________________ > iona winton <ionaskydancer > Kundalini Awakening > Mon, November 9, 2009 10:16:08 PM > Child Abu & e > >  > Hi and All, >  > Wow. I have been given a hard task to do. If someone had asked me to take on this test/task I would have refused it but it is here facing me and I want to share it with others who will understand. Some may know that I work part-time as a Spiritual Adviser to a group of people who are of various faiths. I had a few problems with the manager at first as his ways and manners left a lot to be desired. As I got to know him I found his heart was in the right place and he was good at his job. >  > He and his girl friend had a baby girl 4 mths ago and this Saturday I am conducting a Naming Ceremony for her. Over 70 people are attending. As our meetings are held in the office next to their home I see the baby all the time. I had noticed that their house was not very clean but as I've been told I'm & nal about cleaning, I guessed it was just me being fussy. I had also noticed over time that the baby was not thriving and many times she looked as if she was dead. >  > Luckily the Child Services, Midwife and Social workers got involved and baby went into hospital. After two days the baby was let out and given a regime for feeding and regular Child Authority visits. I learnt from others that they had fed the 9wk old baby ice cream and bread. She showed improvement for a few weeks but then took another down turn. As I held her one day I could see bruises on her face and neck. >  > That was two weeks ago and I never commented on it as I knew they were being watched by authorities. Last week the poor mite was taken into hospital again. She is malnourished, bruised, dirty and has a broken rib. I'm in tears as I write this as and some may know that child abuse is something close to my heart and in my own childhood. I work hard to raise money for such children, and recently raised 200 UK pounds for them by cutting off 20yrs growth of dreadlocks. >  > As I am still the Spiritual Adviser the manager has been calling me for support in times of stress and trouble. No one has been there for him. On one hand I want to shout at him for the treatment of the baby. To scream at him and take the baby away from them for ever and make sure they never have another child. There was a meeting today at the baby's hospital and 20 officials turned up to support the baby, whereas the manager & girlfriend had no one. Now they have asked me to support them at the next meeting. What can I do? >  > I found out today that manager & girlfriend were not bought up very well themselves and have no idea how to look after a baby. Everything they have done wrong has been partly due to ignorance and having bad parents themselves. It's like children having children and while I 100%agreeee that the baby is being abused, it has not been out of malicece but ignorance and inability to even look after themselves properly. >  > So if you had asked me to support a couple found to be abusing their child my answer would have been " NO WAY " . But what other answer is there? I feel I should help them but what they have done is awful. >  > HELP Please. >  > Blessings, Iona x >  >  > >  >  > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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