A possible answer to Linda.

[Guest guest]

Hi Linda:

 

I can´t speak for Bruce, but I would like to share what I think he meant and in

general what " other paths " to enlightenment mean. Kundalini is a concept that

describes a process, but it just that, a concept. This process can be called and

has been called many other different names in other traditions: For example the

experience of truth in Japanese Zen is called Satori. In particular Kundalini,

is a sanskrit word from the hindu tradition.

 

So different paths really means putting different names for the same thing,

which is truth. It is similar to that saying that sates " all paths lead to the

same destination "

 

What do you think Bruce?

 

Does this relate to your own experience Linda?

 

Thank you,

Elio.

[Guest guest]

Yes Elio, that does relate to me. That is the way I see it. Just different terms

for the same thing. That is probably how Bruce intended too, now that I think

about it a little more. Just how he worded it I took it he was saying that

kundalini was a separate path from the others, but the way you explain it I

guess it would be since each group uses different terms and other types of

practices for the same purpose.

 

Thanks,

Linda

 

, " elieits " <elieits

wrote:

>

> Hi Linda:

>

> I can´t speak for Bruce, but I would like to share what I think he meant and

in general what " other paths " to enlightenment mean. Kundalini is a concept that

describes a process, but it just that, a concept. This process can be called and

has been called many other different names in other traditions: For example the

experience of truth in Japanese Zen is called Satori. In particular Kundalini,

is a sanskrit word from the hindu tradition.

>

> So different paths really means putting different names for the same thing,

which is truth. It is similar to that saying that sates " all paths lead to the

same destination "

>

> What do you think Bruce?

>

> Does this relate to your own experience Linda?

>

> Thank you,

> Elio.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Elio and Linda,

 

This is a really interesting topic. And first, let me apologize for my terrible

spelling and grammar in the previous post; I have committed to improve this

 

Chrism, I would love your feedback on this. Elio, I agree with some of what you

say, yet also offer some other points of reflection. This has also been an

ongoing question for me, and the question is 'Is enlightenment possible without

kundalini?'

 

For the question to be answered, we would have to agree what 'enlightenment'

means, and what 'kundalini' means.

 

Kundalini, as I currently understand it, is a profound

psychological/spiritual/phsyical transformation, which happens when stored

evolutionary energy is released from near the tailbone, (or more rarely through

a top-down awakening through the opening of the crown chakra) This huge release

or influx of energy into the body burns away blockages in the body, purifying

the being at many levels and eventually leads to the effortless experience of

union and freedom in the Divine Identity.

 

The kundalini may also be called other names in other cultures, such as Tummo in

the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. Yes, the name kundalini is a concept, but its a

concept that points to a very real set of energetic phenomena that occur within

a process of spiritual transformation, that is beyond the control of the person

involved.

 

My experience is that a person may have a radical realization of emptiness or

Truth, or the Ground of Being, without having a kundalini awakening. This

radical realization is sometimes known as Self Realized. One definition (if it

can be defined.. haha) of enlightenment offered its that its the recognition of

your True Nature, which can happen any time and suddenly. This recognition of

ones True Nature can occur without all the phenomena of the kundalini occuring.

(Whether or not it gets stabilized is another story..) My understanding of

Satori is that its a 'moment of realization', a Aha moment where deeper insight,

which is itself liberating, arises. The enlightened mind is always present, hard

to find yet impossible to avoid. The enlightened mind is simply the primordial

awareness which notices any experience you may have, and in that noticing, is

free of it. Thats what freedom means, as compared to bondage, which means lost

and identified within an experience which will change. The root of suffering is

identification of self with experience, as when the experience goes, the self

that is identified with that experience will die.

 

Arising from that, then practicing the enlightened mind is simply witnessing

experiences, which anyone can do. From that perspective, someone who has

absolute confidance in their presence, or in their ability to witness their

experience,through waking, dreaming and sleeping states, is 'living

enlightenment', even though they may not have had the experience of non-dual

realization, which is the collapse of the witness and the release of

self-identity into union with all that arises, which is 'no-self'. Again, my

experience is that these are possible without kundalini.

 

The other school of thought is the gradual path of awakening, ie is

enlightenment a process of purification of fear, doubt and shadow, releasing one

deeper into the fruits of the Spirit, which are peace, joy, a sense of freedom

and trust in the life process. Again, I have seen people who appear to be deeply

free from a life of surrender of Self to God, and who have a deep sense of

freedom and joy, yet who havent had a kundalini awakening.

 

SO what does Kundalini do? in my opinion, it both leads to realization of

enlightenment, purifies, literally evolves the person who has the awakening, and

leads to a whole bunch of other fun experiences which people who are enlightened

without it may not have (again, 'defining' enlightenment as the recognition that

one is free from whatever experience one has...).

 

To summarize, I would say that kundalini is a process of energetic spiritual

transformation which leads to many gifts, including enlightenment (or Self

Realization), yet its possible to realize enlightenment (Self Realization)

without having kundalini.

 

Chrism, if this is different to how you view it, i would love your comments..

 

love

Bruce

 

 

 

 

, " danceswithcats999 "

<crazycats711 wrote:

>

> Yes Elio, that does relate to me. That is the way I see it. Just different

terms for the same thing. That is probably how Bruce intended too, now that I

think about it a little more. Just how he worded it I took it he was saying that

kundalini was a separate path from the others, but the way you explain it I

guess it would be since each group uses different terms and other types of

practices for the same purpose.

>

> Thanks,

> Linda

>

> , " elieits " <elieits@>

wrote:

> >

> > Hi Linda:

> >

> > I can´t speak for Bruce, but I would like to share what I think he meant and

in general what " other paths " to enlightenment mean. Kundalini is a concept that

describes a process, but it just that, a concept. This process can be called and

has been called many other different names in other traditions: For example the

experience of truth in Japanese Zen is called Satori. In particular Kundalini,

is a sanskrit word from the hindu tradition.

> >

> > So different paths really means putting different names for the same thing,

which is truth. It is similar to that saying that sates " all paths lead to the

same destination "

> >

> > What do you think Bruce?

> >

> > Does this relate to your own experience Linda?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Elio.

> >

>