Justifiable Anger?

[Guest guest]

Dear and All: Is anger ever justifiable?  Are there situations when anger

is a sign one is being taken advantage of?  This is my situation, and I would

like both feedback and insight, especially from Chrism.  Our son will soon be

38.  He has been a type 1 diabetic since age 13 and is also either bipolar or

just has a terrible attitude.  The longest he has ever held a job is about 1 1/2

years, when he was about 22.  He is in graphic design and has sent out resumes,

but not lately and never gets calls. He wont take any other kind of work.  He

has no medical insurance and his diabetic supplies and prescriptions run close

to $1000 per month. He is 100% dependant on my husband and I financially.  He is

disrespectful and rude to us and seems to feel " entitled " to the help we are

giving him.  Last year he got in trouble and we had to bail him out of jail (

because they would not allow him to have his insulin  in the cell  and he would

have gone into diabetic coma).  We did also hire an attorney for him, because

he did not initiate the problem.  Because his life was threatened, we also moved

him out of our city to another city.  (He cannot live with us due to his

attitude.)  Supporting him is hurting us financially to the degree that I have

had to borrow heavily just to pay the monthly bills.  We have a good income, but

it isn't enough to support my husband and I and or son too.  Our car is  almost

14 years old, and we eat mostly at McDonalds when we eat out.  I want our son to

contribute at least something to his own support, however little the amount, and

feel he should be willing to take ANY job to do so.  If he can't find any work,

I would like to have him do volunteer work, to contribute to others as he is

being helped by us.  He is doing that now as part of his probation which end in

May, and I would like to see him continue.

I feel that he just receives and receives from us and isn't grateful, rather has

an attitude of " entitlement " and I am angry about that : both his attitude and

the fact that my husband and I don't agree on setting boundaries as to how much

to help him and what his responsibilities are in return.  I love my son, but I

don't see things changing, and I am concerned about my mounting debt. I need

some objective insight about my own attitude ; I realize that I can only change

myself, but I do feel my anger about this is justified.  This situation is only

hurting our son in the long run.  I have not plans to abandon him financially; I

will always be glad to help him, but I feel he must help himself too. Please

help me recognize what I am missing in the big picture here!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dearest Diane Baugh,

 

Absolutely... it is very OK to let yourself become angry. To deny yourself this

human emotion is like cutting off your Oxygen supply. I'll try to tread ever so

cautiously not to offend you or anyone for that matter. I apologize well in

advance for my bluntness. Congrats to your son for having reached age 38. Praise

G*D !!! I am assuming your son also resides at home with you, the parents. I do

believe your parental duties came to a halt at age 18 at least in the eyes of

the law. You are not responsible for anyone other than yourself. Sometimes to

just say NO...enough is enough can be a tough heart wrenching decision. I

believe in this situation it is too long overdue to cut those apron strings and

let him fend (swim or sink) for himself. You will always be his mother but to

support him financially, housing or otherwise come to a full halt and like all

good things must come to an end. It's time for you to practice " TOUGH LOVE " and

send him packing.

Being an Empath with intuitive abilities I see so much wrong with your sons

selfish actions. I myself have been in many very similar situations with various

family members and I do know the strain and heartache it causes but it does get

easier as time goes by and the initial shock wears off. Do not allow him to

manipulate you, stand strong and firm. This is just the 1st step in making a

positive change for yourself and for your sons well being. It is long overdue

that he must GROW UP and be a responsible adult. Your job is done...pat yourself

on the back and show him where the closest door is located, especially the outer

side with no return entry key. May you have the courage and strength to teach

him this lesson...for him to take full responsibility for himself and his own

actions/lifestyle.

 

You ARE doing what should have been done 20 years ago. Do not allow yourself to

be blamed for his shortcomings. I truly commend you for taking the gutz and

strength to see this problem and have a strong desire to correct it before it

continues to get worse(er). I really do think it is high time that you started

thinking about yourself for once and the hell with what others may think of you

or your parenting skills. Just do it !!! Don't look back. I am very PROUD of YOU

!

 

BTW: Unpack them damn " Guilt Trip Bags " !!! Been there... done that !

 

No one is judging you...just wondering what took you so long to get here?

 

Namaste'

 

Denny

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane, I've worked with someone in your son's age bracket (and also had an

acquaintance) with bipolar disability. My recollection is that they were best

suited to living away from home. The first person (a male about your son's age)

was offered a complete residential package in a heavily supervised

minute-to-minute work activity in a Salvation Army hostel. He " gave " in that

environment and felt safe and grounded albeit within a very disciplined

lifestyle. The second person was taken in by a Satyananda Ashram - again

working in humble surroundings such as a kitchen but additionally given Yoga

therapy. I'm not sure what meds they were on but I do seem to recall that what

existed, was given in supervised doses. I'm also fairly sure that there was no

charge for the accommodation but rules particularly re. work routines and

attitudes of respectfulness were firmly instilled and there were very few second

chances - particularly if a resident decided he'd had enough and wanted " out " .

 

Diane, it would be great if you could find such a place locally for your son -

love - John.

 

 

========================================

 

 

Diane wrote:

 

" ..... our son will soon be 38.  He has been bipolar... the longest he has ever

held a job is about 1 1/2 years, when he was about 22.  He is in graphic design

...... wont take any other kind of work. I will always be glad to help him, but I

feel he must help himself too... "

[Guest guest]

Hello Diane,

Is anger justified? Yes it is an honest human emotion. So is fear

and shame and love and joy. Choose your condition Diane. Decide what it is you

want to feel and then take the steps to fulfill that goal.

 

Your son needs to be given some tough love. So is your anger directed at him or

at yourself for not being able to initiate levels of care that are not soft

floating teddy bears? I know its not exactly like that and I am stretching a bit

yes? However it is something for you to consider. For whom does your anger

exist? From where does the true leadership in your family come from? Who is

calling the shots? Not your son.

 

It is your love that is calling the shots Diane. It is your blessed nurturing

maternal love that keeps him at your side and in your life in any way that he

wishes. Forcing him to be there by virtue of medical based helplessness.

 

Yes you have done some things to draw the line and this is good! But perhaps

more needs to occur from you. We do not help our children with a condition or

otherwise by acceding to their every wish, need and desire. This is a form of

enabling and forming a platform of dependency that can be hurtful to the child

of any age. Sometimes it is better not to e rescued.

 

The attitude and response to your nurturing love from your son can be in the

form of subconscious resentments for not allowing a change of a magnitude that

will initiate a needed growth and development within him. So disrespect becomes

the communication tool. Attitudes of ungratefulness riding on the waves of self

pity and anger and of petty low self esteem based expressions stacked upon

accepted forms of self hatred supported by the medical authorities chemicals and

classification of him being sick and unable to care for himself and supported by

you Diane. He must have some anger over this!

 

He needs to have some change given to him perhaps in the way has

suggested. Or other ways. Jail would be one of those ways. A church or religious

organization or any of a number of programs designed for those who have these

needs. He isnt the only one!

 

So yes anger is appropriate from him and from you if you wish to go there to

vent needed releases of emotional dross. On the other hand one could initiate

changes in the lives of all concerned in ways that allow a flourishing to occur

for those who are receiving and those who are giving. Win Wins can occur! But

this can be difficult and require much courage from him and from yourself and

husband.

 

It can take a measure of breaking out of old paradigms of comfort and habit to

open the way for these life victories. If anger is the fuel to compel these

changes then Yes! get angry and make the changes. If it is for emotional release

then Yes! release those emotions.

 

Tough love is hard and it is supposed to be and it isnt only tough and hard on

those who are having it occur from another but it is also difficult for those

who may need to dish it out for the benefit of everyone.

 

So Diane where is your anger directed and what are you going to do about it? -

blessings and love for you and your family Diane! - chrism

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

l

[Guest guest]

Hey Diane,

John and Chrism's comments are helpful ones. also, some of the local mental

health centers have day treatment programs and also vocational training for

simple jobs. I do think you and your husband getting clear about the

limitations of how you'll help would be helpful. I have had my far share of

setting boundaries with my family from a place of love. Enabling never helps

the enables. it ends up the enabler is overfunctioning and the enabled in turn,

underfunctions. it has always felt counterintuitive when i've set limites and

let go of responsibility but i've seen the other assume responsibility as a

result.

love and blessings,

jan

 

, " " <...>

wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi Diane, I've worked with someone in your son's age bracket (and also had an

acquaintance) with bipolar disability. My recollection is that they were best

suited to living away from home. The first person (a male about your son's age)

was offered a complete residential package in a heavily supervised

minute-to-minute work activity in a Salvation Army hostel. He " gave " in that

environment and felt safe and grounded albeit within a very disciplined

lifestyle. The second person was taken in by a Satyananda Ashram - again

working in humble surroundings such as a kitchen but additionally given Yoga

therapy. I'm not sure what meds they were on but I do seem to recall that what

existed, was given in supervised doses. I'm also fairly sure that there was no

charge for the accommodation but rules particularly re. work routines and

attitudes of respectfulness were firmly instilled and there were very few second

chances - particularly if a resident decided he'd had enough and wanted " out " .

>

> Diane, it would be great if you could find such a place locally for your son -

love - John.

>

>

> ========================================

>

>

> Diane wrote:

>

> " ..... our son will soon be 38.  He has been bipolar... the longest he has

ever held a job is about 1 1/2 years, when he was about 22.  He is in graphic

design ..... wont take any other kind of work. I will always be glad to help

him, but I feel he must help himself too... "

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Diane,

From my perspective as a mother and wife;

Your child will always be your child. I can imagine how much pain your son is

experiencing in coping with his life, and the anger that is resulting. Chronic

illness over many years would result in much depression and resentment for all

involved, and is a heavy load for all the family. Be honest about your feelings.

You feel love, but you also feel worn out and resentful with all the

expectations that come with it. Illness and the problems that accompany this

situation are not your fault, and you cannot compensate for someone else's

misfortunes and short-comings. Mothers do try hard though, to compensate.

Mothers never ever give up. Tell your son that you love him, and would like him

to show you love also. Tell him that you need this. Show him ways that he may

help you and your husband. Children often do not realise their parents

vulnerabilities until they are pointed out.

Sending you love and healing of hearts for this situation,

Love, Sandra

 

 

 

, Diane Baugh

<cdgbdronningen wrote:

>

> Dear and All: Is anger ever justifiable?  Are there situations

when anger is a sign one is being taken advantage of?  This is my situation, and

I would like both feedback and insight, especially from Chrism.  Our son will

soon be 38.  He has been a type 1 diabetic since age 13 and is also either

bipolar or just has a terrible attitude.  The longest he has ever held a job is

about 1 1/2 years, when he was about 22.  He is in graphic design and has sent

out resumes, but not lately and never gets calls. He wont take any other kind of

work.  He has no medical insurance and his diabetic supplies and prescriptions

run close to $1000 per month. He is 100% dependant on my husband and I

financially.  He is disrespectful and rude to us and seems to feel " entitled " to

the help we are giving him.  Last year he got in trouble and we had to bail him

out of jail ( because they would not allow him to have his insulin  in the cell 

and he would have gone into diabetic coma).  We did also hire an attorney for

him, because he did not initiate the problem.  Because his life was threatened,

we also moved him out of our city to another city.  (He cannot live with us due

to his attitude.)  Supporting him is hurting us financially to the degree that I

have had to borrow heavily just to pay the monthly bills.  We have a good

income, but it isn't enough to support my husband and I and or son too.  Our

car is  almost 14 years old, and we eat mostly at McDonalds when we eat out.  I

want our son to contribute at least something to his own support, however little

the amount, and feel he should be willing to take ANY job to do so.  If he can't

find any work, I would like to have him do volunteer work, to contribute to

others as he is being helped by us.  He is doing that now as part of his

probation which end in May, and I would like to see him continue.

> I feel that he just receives and receives from us and isn't grateful, rather

has an attitude of " entitlement " and I am angry about that : both his attitude

and the fact that my husband and I don't agree on setting boundaries as to how

much to help him and what his responsibilities are in return.  I love my son,

but I don't see things changing, and I am concerned about my mounting debt. I

need some objective insight about my own attitude ; I realize that I can only

change myself, but I do feel my anger about this is justified.  This situation

is only hurting our son in the long run.  I have not plans to abandon him

financially; I will always be glad to help him, but I feel he must help himself

too. Please help me recognize what I am missing in the big picture here!!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Diane:

 

You are amazing! To keep up the love when one is ungrateful -I will not go into

my thoughts on this but I want to ask has there been any checking into

disability? If he has been diagnosed with anything then he might be eligible -

this would take some of the burden off you.

 

Of course he would have to do the paperwork- it might be worth pursuing.

 

I am sorry you are in this position - you are much more deserving than this. I

have family that has had similar situations and they have lost much in tryin to

help their kids.

 

I encourage you to look at what is important to you- you deserve respect and

peace of mind and it sounds to me that you are the only one who can bring you to

that point. In your case with the Kundalini you have a great resource in

Shakti. She will help you if you allow yourself to be open to her guidance.

 

I know this is not easy - When my sister was dealing with my niece I felt really

bad for both and was grateful it was not me in the situation. Good thing I am

not a parent - I would be really hard nosed. My nephew has Aspergers and he is

very into entitlement- his parents have a difficult time trying to deal with his

attitude - it is the same as you - can you draw a line on behavior and still be

a good parent? I know it can be done - how I have no idea other than to start

taking care of you and learn to be ok with the results of this.

 

You are a special lady - honorable and loving. You have shown tremendous

kindness to many here and great insight in all discussions. Maybe it is time

for you to see the gifts you have been given and turn them to yourself. You are

worthy of respect, kindness and love. You have been gifted with Kundalini- there

is no greater gift. Embrace this gift and seek what you need to follow a path

of love for yourself.

 

I send you prayers that you find a way to be the parent you desire to be. It

may not be what you think of as the good parent so be open and receive.

 

Love to you...

e

[Guest guest]

Dear Denny, John, Jan, and Chrism: 

 

Thank you so much for the understanding, support, and helpful suggestions.  I

appreciate all of your more than I can put in words.  Most of the suggestions we

have already checked into and for one reason or another they have not worked

out. Our son did apply for welfare and was denied; he can apply again and we

have urged him to do so.  He is not eligible for disability because he has not

worked enough to have benefits.  He refuses to consider any kind of group living

setting, and since he is of age, we can't force that or any action for that

matter.  So the only option is for me to take action of some sort.  The reason I

have been reluctant to do so before is because my husband identifies with our

son since he too has several health issues, and so he has spoiled him, and

started the dependence our son has on us.  Bill and I disagree on how much help

to give our son and we also disagree on whether or not our son is capable of

getting a job and keeping one.

 

I feel our son MUST take responsibility for himself, at least to some degree,

and if he will do that I am willing to continue helping with rent and

medication.  So I have decided to put our son on notice that I will pay his rent

and provide his medications plus $500 to cover

utilities.  But the $500 will be with drawn after  6 months.  I will continue to

pay his rent and medications though.  He will need to get any kind of job to

make up the $500 for utilities etc.

 

Chrism: Thank you from the depths of my heart.  I needed your K confrontation!! 

And I needed to think about the questions you posed.  I think I am most angry at

myself that I ever allowed myself to become involved with helping him!  Bill had

started that and asked if I would help with the rent which was  only $475. at

that time; it is now $1195.00.  Gradually I was pressured to help more, and I

did to avoid trouble between Bill and I.  I was under a lot of stress and did

not want or need more stress due to conflict between Bill and I.  I kept

hoping our  son would get work, and our help would no longer be needed.

 

Yes, I feel mostly angry at myself for not having the courage to say 'NO! "

initially.  It would have prevented years of anguish and spared all three of us

this enmeshed relationship that has been damaging to all three.  I WILL TAKE

ACTION, AND I WILL DO IT NOW. For all our sakes.

 

My love and gratitude to each of you!

Diane

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

" It would have prevented years of anguish and spared all three of us this

enmeshed relationship that has been damaging to all three. I WILL TAKE

ACTION, AND I WILL DO IT NOW. For all our sakes. "

 

Please don't regret the lesson Diane. We are all doing the best that we can,

and sometimes we need to be involved in the situation for years before we

truly learn. It would be too painful and unproductive for me to look back at

all the " what if's " in my life. So I say " thank you for lesson, I am much

wiser now "

 

Love yourself, there is enough to go around.

 

Carla

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Diane, I have not been on for awhile because I just found out my daughter

may be bipolar, which explains alot about her mean rude behavior. It has been

very difficult and upsetting but I just started going to a NAMI meeting last

night and there were several people there who shared stories like yours. It

might help to find the local group, they have an educational class for 12 weeks

and a support group. They also have a peer support group for the bipolar

person, maybe you could set some boundaries with your son by saying he has to

attend some support group or see a psychologist or something otherwise you may

stop the flow of money. I am slowing or stopping the flow of money unless she

seeks help and she is 18. It might be worth the money to see a family

psychologist that specializes in things like this, again I would look for

information and referrals from the local or national NAMI group. I think it is a

complicated situation and you need expert support to help you navigate through a

big change of getting your son more independent. The whole dynamic of how you

communicate with him will have to change at least that seems to be what I am

learning with my daughter. I want to fix her but I can't I can only offer her

encouragement to do what she thinks is right. When she calls me in pain needing

something I have been taught to reflect on her pain, wow that sounds very

difficult, and then ask her what she thinks she should do about it. I also ask

her if there is something she wants me to do. Like go to a meeting with her,

call a doctor, not give her money for a shopping spree. For me it is difficult I

want to run in and save her fix it etc. But I do see how in the long run it will

help her the most if I encourage her to figure out how to best help herself.

There are great books in the library too about bipolar. I just finished an

autobiography by a bipolar psychologist from Johns Hopkins, An Unquiet Mind, by

Kay Jamison. This book helped me understand my daughter better and gave me hope

that she can learn to take care of herself. I am certainly not saying don't take

care of your son but there are ways of doing it while encouraging independance

in a loving way.

 

My prayers are with you Diane

Maryann

 

, Diane Baugh

<cdgbdronningen wrote:

>

> Dear and All: Is anger ever justifiable?  Are there situations

when anger is a sign one is being taken advantage of?  This is my situation, and

I would like both feedback and insight, especially from Chrism.  Our son will

soon be 38.  He has been a type 1 diabetic since age 13 and is also either

bipolar or just has a terrible attitude.  The longest he has ever held a job is

about 1 1/2 years, when he was about 22.  He is in graphic design and has sent

out resumes, but not lately and never gets calls. He wont take any other kind of

work.  He has no medical insurance and his diabetic supplies and prescriptions

run close to $1000 per month. He is 100% dependant on my husband and I

financially.  He is disrespectful and rude to us and seems to feel " entitled " to

the help we are giving him.  Last year he got in trouble and we had to bail him

out of jail ( because they would not allow him to have his insulin  in the cell 

and he would have gone into diabetic coma).  We did also hire an attorney for

him, because he did not initiate the problem.  Because his life was threatened,

we also moved him out of our city to another city.  (He cannot live with us due

to his attitude.)  Supporting him is hurting us financially to the degree that I

have had to borrow heavily just to pay the monthly bills.  We have a good

income, but it isn't enough to support my husband and I and or son too.  Our

car is  almost 14 years old, and we eat mostly at McDonalds when we eat out.  I

want our son to contribute at least something to his own support, however little

the amount, and feel he should be willing to take ANY job to do so.  If he can't

find any work, I would like to have him do volunteer work, to contribute to

others as he is being helped by us.  He is doing that now as part of his

probation which end in May, and I would like to see him continue.

> I feel that he just receives and receives from us and isn't grateful, rather

has an attitude of " entitlement " and I am angry about that : both his attitude

and the fact that my husband and I don't agree on setting boundaries as to how

much to help him and what his responsibilities are in return.  I love my son,

but I don't see things changing, and I am concerned about my mounting debt. I

need some objective insight about my own attitude ; I realize that I can only

change myself, but I do feel my anger about this is justified.  This situation

is only hurting our son in the long run.  I have not plans to abandon him

financially; I will always be glad to help him, but I feel he must help himself

too. Please help me recognize what I am missing in the big picture here!!!

>

>

>

>

>