Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Dear Everyone: I would really appreciate input from anyone who would care to comment. Since our beloved Teacher has 1,000 emails waiting for him as he returns, I know it will be quite a while before he can respond. Every one's view and/or experience is of importance and valued and will be taken to heart. We learn and grow together. Love and Peace Diane ----- Forwarded Message ---- Diane Baugh <cdgbdronningen Kfireforall Wed, March 3, 2010 10:08:11 PM CHRISM: Your Perspective please Dear Chrism: I have read several of your most recent articles lately in an attempt to gain your perspective on what I am experiencing in regard to my orientation to myself and the k process. I feel so very disoriented, but when I consider my thinking or my relationship to the " myself " that is feeling disoriented, now, with my experiences even only a month or so ago, I recognize that my internal reality is changing: I only hope that the changes I am aware of are as a result of growing through the k journey, and not due to a slide into insanity! In regard to the examination of ourselves you asked us to do prior to your trip, I have recognized that I have many areas where the k process (hopefully!) will result in both surrender of those issues mentioned and growth in regard to their optimal expression within my life in light of the k process. One issue I struggle with is the attempt on my part to balance my traditional Christian beliefs with a deeper " knowing " I am aware of within me: non-duality. My struggle with the continuum these two opposites encompass is a significant area of disorientation for me. As I perceive it currently, both extremes of this continuum are valid and it is merely a matter of application and identification as to whether one is perceiving and experiencing from one extreme of the continuum or the other at a particular moment. To a degree, this explains my intense interest in quantum mechanics and related subjects: the understanding of these topics as they relate to my journey through the k process is an aspect of how kundalini broadens and deepens one's perceptions of reality as one is maturing through the process. At least this has been my experience. My experience during this journey is that the disorientation I and others feel is a result of our definition and experience of Reality being expaded to such an extreme degree that one's experience of self and Reality are both not only challenged, but rewritten by and through the k process, and one no longer experiences self in the same way as prior to this journey. I have posted previously about my longing to be " reunited with Beingness " and even that experience seems to be morphing. I NOW am aware that I AM united to " Beingness " continually. Whether or not I am aware of this connection or not is merely a matter of PERCEPTION on my part! Previously, my longing stemmed from physical burnout, and what seems to be " ego exhaustion " . I felt that the entanglement in the physical world no longer held interest for me. I was not looking for an escape; I was endevoring to work through the entanglements, complete the responsibilities related to others and then, hopefully not create further entanglements to be worked out in the future. Perhaps it is better stated that this " longing " for an end to the journey:, is really the beginning of the journey: ego is recognizing it is the culprit, and is endevoring to escape the painful consequences the " I " is having to live through! In one of her posts, Julia, asked the question as to whether ego was all bad or not, and said (I hope I am quoting her correctly) that ego helps us made decisions, by giving us choices. In this regard, I agree with Julia that the ego is helpful, but IMHO on a deeper level, the NEED for choice is evidence of the ego being still functioning even though in a somewhat positive sense. Perhaps my " longing " is just the beginning of the awareness that longing is itself evidence of ego involvement. Where am I going with this: I am still aware of involvement of the ego, but recognize that the k process journey will have as an end result a total surrender of the ego's need for expression in the material world, and the permanent immersion of it in " BEingness, my term for the NOWNESS, IN THE MOMENT Presence what I call God. I guess my ultimate question would be: In the surrendering of the ego, is the ego transformed by it's surrender , such that it is no longer seprate from God due to it's transformation, or does it cease to exist as a separate entity as a RESULT of recognition of it's separateness, no longer perpetuated by itself? (I am having difficulty expressing what I am trying to convay with this question.) In regard to the topic of quantum consciousness and non-duality as it relates to the ego, I have an extreme interest reading as much as I can find on the topic. I believe I understand the concepts intellectually , but that is not where my satisfaction with the topic comes from. Rather it is in regard to " recognizing " the truths of these concepts, as if I am " remembering " them. Chrism, I ask you to correct any of these statements that are in error. What I have written here is only my perception, and I surrender my perceptions to your wisdom and experience. I seek correction of any part of my perception that is in error;. My prayer is that I will not deviate from the k journey by being sidetracked by unexamined error. Respect, Honor, Gratitude and Love Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Hi Diane, I will put in my two cents on this. Personally I feel it is a never ending process of dealing with the ego. It is like as has said before, living with that 12 year old child within us that always wants its way. A subtle and slippery part of us within us that will always find a way to creep back up to the foreground and try to have its way. But it is not evil, not to be destroyed, not to be even mastered. I believe it is to be observed, to be lived with in a balanced and harmonious way. Perhaps it is not ego that is transformed by our surrender, but us ourselves. And personally I feel that the ego is a part of us, an integral part, and will not cease to exist. We may just have to go further and further in our refinement of our relationship with our ego, and find further ways to surrender deeper and deeper in this never ending process. A bit daunting perhaps, but with great rewards and views along the way! be well, bradly > I guess my ultimate question would be: In the surrendering of the ego, is the ego transformed by it's surrender , such that it is no longer seprate from God due to it's transformation, or does it cease to exist as a separate entity as a RESULT of recognition of it's separateness, no longer perpetuated by itself? (I am having difficulty expressing what I am trying to convay with this question.) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 dear Diane Blessings to you dear sister as you allow the transformation. Would like to share some of the thoughts that come forth as i read. I so deeply trust, know, and give thanks that K Ma shall bring forth all that is needed to bring your Beingness into full bloom in Oneness and Uniqueness. This is a bow to the K Ma within you whom is the Divine Primal Force of God/dess pulsating through every cell in the chalice you refer to as body, and a sharing based on my own journey of loosening the constraints of the old concepts deployed by the egoic to ensure its survival. Diane i address your questions by drawing a larger circle looking at the overall mechanics of the ego, rather than entering the dialogue with the specific questions. And what i write is based on observation of my own ego and may or may not resonate with what you are trying to surface. Some of the things i have seen with my own ego. The egoic is cleaver and as the process continues it adapts and morphps for it is not beyond parading and becoming enamored with itself in the new spiritual clothes of radiant hues with light and sparkles. Here the ego can find a new language in the form of indepth investigation of spiritual texts, discussions, and spiritual experiences but underneath the same old self asserting; (me, my, mine, and what, why, when, where). The proverbial wolf in lamb's skin. For me anytime i hear comparison, too much, not enough, all the forms of judgment it is my egoic. The egoic is part of our earthly experience and our challenge is to transcend and surrender. That is what we can do each day and in each moment; transcend and surrender, anything else becomes grasping which is the original problem of ego. This is an expression i have taken into cellular awareness. Nowadays it is fun to watch the egoic and its mechanism when they erupt and in this practice of just watching a gold nugget was found. It would be an endless battle if it were all up to ego because it does not destroy and is not destroyed by itself It is like a wave it makes itself up, it rushes forward getting nowhere really it crashes, withdraws and makes itself up again pulls itself together with pride towers with pride rushes forward into imaginary conquest crashes in frustration withdraws with remorse and repentance pulls itself together with new resolution - Agnes Martin This is another imagery that i have loved in observing the egoic. Issues soon turn to laughter as i watch my ego rake cinders and instead of feeling repelled by the ego there is a warm compassionate embrace at its antics. We have a mind and that is blessing, the challenge is not to destroy the mind which is the house of ego, but to find the right use of mind. I grew up training horses, and learned the hard way the only way one can get thrown from a colt is to allow it to get its head down. Awareness was the remedy for that not to occur. The- whole sum of spiritual practice and mastering the ego can be achieved from Awareness. For years have spent many hours each day in meditation and silence and have come to the realization, silence within and without is a welcome oasis but in truth optional. The awareness of the still point which can never be disturbed whether in motion or quietness through all the coming and going of daily life is the space where ego is held in surrender and ongoing dissolution. Meditation and silence helped to find it, but the most holy space of Being comes from Awareness rather than silence. The ego loves, Why? How? Where? When? and these can become an endless loop of ego. Whereas Beingness resides in Stop, Look, and Listen. In all things Listen: Listen to the body, Listen to K Ma, Listen in Meditation, Listen to your teacher- Chrism, Listen to others, Listen, Listen, Listen. . . . . . . . .And from there what K Ma/Divinity/Jesus/Buddha/Shiva/I AM wants to be expressed will just float up, the egoic mind really has little to offer and in truth there is nothing to hold on to. We know nothing and can truly know 'nothing'. And as always the short-cut to all spiritual transformation is embrace, have a Yes, and that includes the egoic. " For, after all, you do grow up, you do outgrow your ideals, which turn to dust and ashes, which are shattered into fragments; and if you have no other life, you just have to build one up out of these fragments. And all the time your soul is craving and longing for something else. And in vain does the dreamer rummage about in his old dreams, raking them over as though they were a heap of cinders, looking in these cinders for some spark, however tiny, to fan it into a flame so as to warm his chilled blood by it and revive in it all that he held so dear before, all that touched his heart, that made his blood course through his veins, that drew tears from his eyes, and that so splendidly deceived him! " - Fyodor Dostoevsky " What's the matter with you? What is it? What is it you're doing here? I don't ask you to look for the words for it. Words are secondary. I want you to find the feel of it. I want you to find the fire of it. I want you to touch the source of your life, to feel the joy and the love that can come from living from the source of your being. Throw yourself completely into the aliveness of your life. It's pretty risky. You could lose yourself. There's nothing to hold onto. " Yun-men Sitting quietly, doing nothing Spring comes, and the grass grows by itself. Zen Proverb dear Diane you have been blessed by K Ma ( or whatever Divine Source name you use ). and she is in the process of bringing forth this tender, beautiful Beingness known as Diane. K Ma knows how to birth babies. Reside with this deep trust and knowing and all waves will ebb into the vast Oceanic embrace.. She will bring the egoic into surrender, this is the promise of Mother/Father to Child. All that does not resonate will fall away and you shall reside in the that which is true. This is a translation/rendition of the Armaic Lord's Prayer, may it be for you and all of us. O Divine Womb, birthing forth the river of blessing which runs through all, Soften the ground of our being, and hallow in us a space for the planting of thy presence. In our depths, sow thy seed with its greening-power that we might be midwives to thy Reign. Then, let each of our actions bear fruit in accordance with thy desire. Impart to us the wisdom to bring forth the gifts of the earth and share them daily according to the needs of each being, And restore that which has been usurped by injustice to its rightful owners, as we restore to others that which is not our own. Do not let us be seduced by that which would divert us from our purpose, but make us sensitive to the moment at hand. For from thy fertile soil is born the creativity, the life-energy, and the dance, from birthing to birthing. Ameyn. ( possible " renderings " of the Aramaic Lord's Prayer are based on the work of Saadi Neil Douglas-Klotz (see " Prayers of the Cosmos " and www.abwoon.com <http://www.abwoon.com/> ). They are not literal translations, but rather something between a poetic translation and " midrash " based on the ancient roots of the Aramaic words of the prayer. ) OH My! Sorry this is so long. love and light to One and All. sparrow , Diane Baugh <cdgbdronningen wrote: > > Dear Everyone: > > I would really appreciate input from anyone who would care to comment. Since our beloved Teacher has > 1,000 emails waiting for him as he returns, I know it will be quite a while before he can respond. Every one's view and/or experience is of importance and valued and will be taken to heart. > We learn and grow together. > > Love and Peace > > Diane > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > Diane Baugh cdgbdronningen > Kfireforall > Wed, March 3, 2010 10:08:11 PM > CHRISM: Your Perspective please > > > Dear Chrism: > > I have read several of your most recent articles lately in an attempt to gain your perspective on what I am experiencing in regard to my orientation to myself and the k process. I feel so very disoriented, but when I consider my thinking or my relationship to the " myself " that is feeling disoriented, now, with my experiences even only a month or so ago, I recognize that my internal reality is changing: I only hope that the changes I am aware of are as a result of growing through the k journey, and not due to a slide into insanity! > > In regard to the examination of ourselves you asked us to do prior to your trip, I have recognized that I have many areas where the k process (hopefully!) will result in both surrender of those issues mentioned and growth in regard to their optimal expression within my life in light of the k process. > > One issue I struggle with is the attempt on my part to balance my traditional Christian beliefs with a deeper " knowing " I am aware of within me: non-duality. My struggle with the continuum these two opposites encompass is a significant area of disorientation for me. As I perceive it currently, both extremes of this continuum are valid and it is merely a matter of application and identification as to whether one is perceiving and experiencing from one extreme of the continuum or the other at a particular moment. > > To a degree, this explains my intense interest in quantum mechanics and related subjects: the understanding of these topics as they relate to my journey through the k process is an aspect of how kundalini broadens and deepens one's perceptions of reality as one is maturing through the process. At least this has been my experience. > > My experience during this journey is that the disorientation I and others feel is a result of our definition and experience of Reality being expaded to such an extreme degree that one's experience of self and Reality are both not only challenged, but rewritten by and through the k process, and one no longer experiences self in the same way as prior to this journey. > > I have posted previously about my longing to be " reunited with Beingness " and even that experience seems to be morphing. > I NOW am aware that I AM united to " Beingness " continually. Whether or not I am aware of this connection or not is merely a matter of PERCEPTION on my part! Previously, my longing stemmed from physical burnout, and what seems to be " ego exhaustion " . I felt that the entanglement in the physical world no longer held interest for me. I was not looking for an escape; I was endevoring to work through the entanglements, complete the responsibilities related to others and then, hopefully not create further entanglements to be worked out in the future. > > Perhaps it is better stated that this " longing " for an end to the journey:, is really the beginning of the journey: ego is recognizing it is the culprit, and is endevoring to escape the painful consequences the " I " is having to live through! > > In one of her posts, Julia, asked the question as to whether ego was all bad or not, and said (I hope I am quoting her correctly) that ego helps us made decisions, by giving us choices. In this regard, I agree with Julia that the ego is helpful, but IMHO on a deeper level, the NEED for choice is evidence of the ego being still functioning even though in a somewhat positive sense. Perhaps my " longing " is just the beginning of the awareness that longing is itself evidence of ego involvement. > > Where am I going with this: I am still aware of involvement of the ego, but recognize that the k process journey will have as an end result a total surrender of the ego's need for expression in the material world, and the permanent immersion of it in " BEingness, my term for the NOWNESS, IN THE MOMENT Presence what I call God. > > I guess my ultimate question would be: In the surrendering of the ego, is the ego transformed by it's surrender , such that it is no longer seprate from God due to it's transformation, or does it cease to exist as a separate entity as a RESULT of recognition of it's separateness, no longer perpetuated by itself? (I am having difficulty expressing what I am trying to convay with this question.) > > In regard to the topic of quantum consciousness and non-duality as it relates to the ego, I have an extreme interest reading as much as I can find on the topic. I believe I understand the concepts intellectually , but that is not where my satisfaction with the topic comes from. Rather it is in regard to " recognizing " the truths of these concepts, as if I am " remembering " them. > > Chrism, I ask you to correct any of these statements that are in error. What I have written here is only my perception, and I surrender my perceptions to your wisdom and experience. I seek correction of any part of my perception that is in error;. My prayer is that I will not deviate from the k journey by being sidetracked by unexamined error. > > Respect, Honor, Gratitude and Love > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Diane wrote " I guess my ultimate question would be: In the surrendering of the ego, is the ego transformed by it's surrender , such that it is no longer seprate from God due to it's transformation, or does it cease to exist as a separate entity as a RESULT of recognition of it's separateness, no longer perpetuated by itself? (I am having difficulty expressing what I am trying to convay with this question.) " Hi Diane, What a journey we and all our egos are on...lol! I wish words were sort of " fluidic " as I agree it is dificult to express and convey our thoughts, sometimes the written words make emereging thoughts sound very concrete and this is often not the case at all. A further question popped up for me on reading your post Diane, I hope you are ok with me adding it here as it relates. Do we surrender our egos? Can we actually surrender our egos? so... thinking out loud as I type... I used to think of surrender as a giving up of something or other, a letting go of... a departing from.... I have discovered that surrender for me is more an experience of going towards... a moving to... a taking up of... an absorbtion of ... an allowing.... " I surrender TO....... " Therefore I do not think I can say " I surrender my ego " in that context at least. I think ego while within and part of me has her own " intelligence " seperate from me. I no longer see myself as the " owner " of my ego and so I could not surrender her anyway even if I wanted to do. ( my ego has not fully let go of the idea that she has ownership of me though...lol!) We are part of each other but seperate too. My ego is just starting to know that surrendering to God /shakti/ kundalini/ truth is something that she might not have to put up such resistance to, surrendering need not be feared. She is coming to know this because she can see that I (we) are still safe and ok and that we still exist although I am now not following her directions but am listening to another and have surrendered to Kundalini. I do not know what happens to ego as this journey continues but I have a feeling that she could settle down and be content. I have had brief times of oneness and beingness and bliss and nothingness and ego must have been present.....therfore eventually ego becomes one with all that I am. This makes sense to me, but I am finding that what makes sense is not always the truth!!! love Julia. PS Diane, as I was deleating all the text below I re read this quote from you and I think you have expressed in a few lines what took me so long above... I think that you also may have answered your own ultimate question...lol! and that is that ego eventually surrenders " HER NEED " for expression! Diane wrote... " I am still aware of involvement of the ego, but recognize that the k process journey will have as an end result a total surrender of the ego's need for expression in the material world, and the permanent immersion of it in " BEingness, my term for the NOWNESS, IN THE MOMENT Presence what I call God " Love Julia , Diane Baugh <cdgbdronningen wrote: > > Dear Everyone: > > I would really appreciate input from anyone who would care to comment. Since our beloved Teacher has > 1,000 emails waiting for him as he returns, I know it will be quite a while before he can respond. Every one's view and/or experience is of importance and valued and will be taken to heart. > We learn and grow together. > > Love and Peace > > Diane > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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