In Defense Of Jayadvaita Swami

[Guest guest]

Dear Devotees and Friends, please accept my humble obeisance. All glories to Srila Prabhupad and Mahaprabhu.

 

I have been reading the arguments against the need for the second edition of Bhagavad Gita. All the devotees who have written articles about it seem to be genuinely concerned about the need to preserve the words -and hence the shakti -of Prabhupad's books.

 

I commend Shrimati Govinda dasi statement, "To remain silent is to agree." In Iskcon, there is no need to fear anyone anymore. Yes, it was possible yesterday, but not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

 

As one shouldn't change Shri Krishna's words in Bhagavad Gita, so should one be careful not to change the words of the empowered and direct representative of Shri Krishna. I fully agree that by doing so one sets a dangerous precedent for future generations to want to take the liberty of editing Srila Prabhupad's books. The more one changes his books or allow himself to lose faith that the books are not suitable for American colleges -as is the case with some leaders-the more Prabhupad's Iskcon is being sent into a deeper abyss as a hodgepodge Hindu society. And then one wonders why people, especially those in white-bodies, are not being attracted to our society.

 

Reflecting on the articles, however, most of the devotees have "hammered" away at Jayadvaita Swami for the second edition. Is this fair? Who really should be blamed if the second edition is a deviation from Srila Prabhupad's desire? It certainly rang hollow with me that Jayadvaita Maharaj should be targetted.

 

In his article, the Maharaj stated that he did not whimsically edited Bhagavad Gita. Rather, he sought the permission of the G. B. C. They voted for it and hence he went ahead with the second edition. All the constructive criticisms, therefore, should have been levelled at the GBC. Though not an associate of Jayadvaita Swami (he doesn't know me), in my opinion, he is the wrong man to blame.

 

The onus is now on all the GBCs who served in 1983 and who are still physically and spiritually alive to come out from their "hiding" and say why they voted for the second edition for the benefit all followers of Srila Prabhupad. Let's hear from you!Without being diplomatic, maybe we can learn something from you.

 

Let's also hear the Maharaj's comment on why Srila Prabhupad said, "Jayadvaita Prabhu can make changes" (not the exact quote).

 

If Jayadvaita Swami has done bad in the second edition, then others have done worst in the translation of Prabhupad's books into other languages as they try to make it "as you like it" instead of "as it is". Besides, he has no problem if one only studies the first edition.

 

It is hard not to dismiss Jayadvaita Swami use of the slang "hoo-ha" and "let me not use a word" as a flaw. But the Maharaj fares well otherwise. His exemplary sannyas life in terms of his eating, dressing, spending and non-hankering for disciples serves well in Iskcon. Moreover, he is a fearless and open critic of the gross deviations of Iskcon's leadership-a quality you would hardly find in many others as they try to be all "yes" men.

 

Lest we become hijacked by the mentality that only book changes can and have caused Iskcon's meltdown and accused Jayadvaita Swami because he doesn't seem to be one of those high-profile fear-driving men, we need to look elsewhere. Some months ago, the GBC absolved Shridar Maharaj (Prabhupad's godbrother), though late, of the accusation of being responsible for the creation of the zonal acharya system in Iskcon.

 

Any man with some intelligence would therefore expect to know who then was responsible and when the GBC would make it known to everyone. After all, much greater than some editorial changes in the second edition, this single most monstruous deviation from Prabhupad's instructions has wreaked havoc in the heart of Iskcon and the intractable aftermath of it is still being felt today.

 

Those of us who have seriously inquired about the truth know the man responsible for the zonal acharya system. He "resides" in an unimaginable place.

 

Let us continue to study, practise and distribute the first edition as the Maharaj encourages and, hopefully, we can get a separate tika someday.

 

Jay Srila Prabhupad and his Bhagavad Gita as it is.

 

Your servant,

Devala das

 

P. S. I shall be there in Alachua for the four day celebration leading to Gaura-purnima.

 

[Guest guest]

I just want to add to your post, which I read with interest, since I am against the chaning of the Books.

 

You write that the GBC in charge are alive spiritualy and materialy, but that right there is incorrect, at the time of 83 GBC, we had Kirtanananda, Harikesha, JaiTirtha and Bhavananda as the insiders Gbc. Some are dead materialy and others spiritually. But you are right that the GBC is to blame,but they will not appoligize, since they see nothing wrong with thier actions, and the books just backed them up.

 

I have defeated the Jehovah Witness People on the one point that the Shastra (bible) should not be changed. But our Iskcon leaders from that time, and now Jai Advaita think that there is nothing wrong with changing the shastra.

[Guest guest]

YOu stuipiod fools!!!! Prabhupada told jayadvata to change the books becuase they were wrong!!!! Jayadwaita fizxed them!!!!

Get a brain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Max_]

There is no need to offend devotees dude. Just calm down, people are going to have different opinions on things, doesn't change our real goal in the end though.

[Guest guest]

Haribol. In the conclusion of Sri Chaitanya Charitamrta, Srila Prabhupada writes:

 

"In this connection I have to thank my American disciples, especially Sriman Pradyumna dasa Adhikari, Srīman Nitai dasa Adhikari, Sriman Jayadvaita dasa Brahmacari and many other boys and girls who are sincerely helping me in writing, editing and publishing all these literatures."

 

As we accept Srila Prabhupadas books cent per cent, we have to concede that editing duties were and are given to those he commissioned to do such work.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I don't see anymore point in groaning.

 

now Jai Advaita think that there is nothing wrong with changing the shastra.

 

 

Most of Prabhupada's Books esp. Gita are there. Also you could try memorizing the Sanskrit {word-for-word}.

 

Prabhupada Purports is sastra is incorrect. Sastra is sastra {Vedas}. So when Guru speaks He speaks on Sastra, so this is something else. So also Prabhupada said don't change His books. So this is as you say Sastra. I feel changing to get closer to what Prabhupada 'says' is nice.

 

Personally I would much prefer leaving them as they are. Because you have to be Uttama-adhikari to change books. Or have the Uttama-adhikari devotee present to see what you are doing. This I feel.

 

For example I could not just go along and edit a Vaishnava's book without them seeing. If I was to say something different {by different I mean realized through the person editing} then that's ok I feel.

 

Also main problem with changes is these books which Prabhupada wrote were in 1960's so they are indeed according to time. So they are present for now. So maybe they should just leave then alone. I mean Prabhupada did specifically state many times not to change. I cannot recall or hear any Vaishnava saying this same thing over and over again. They may present many reasons. But fact is we don't want them changing. Neither do we care for any 'mistakes'.

 

When I open a Prabhupada Book in 500 years I want to know this is authentic. Not edited millions of times. Just leave them as they are. In fact we all would be respected more for being strict in this small matter. Prabhupada books are corner stone in history. They are the Chaitanya tree of Kali-yuga. Also edit means to change as well. And what does change mean? This all said and done I came to KC by reading 2nd Edition Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. So to tell you the truth. The main thing is individual needs as well. If you want Original Authentic Pre 1977 Editions etc. Then they are there. Go out and buy them. Also you have a huge collection of sravanam Lectures. But what can we minions really do. Its all in Chaitanya's hands:)

[Guest guest]

The concern is appreciated, but Srila Prabhupada, in fact, worked WITH his disciples in his production of his books, as mentioned, not just in the citation, but in all his books, he notes authorization of editorial staff. I personally associated with one of these secretaries of Srila Prabhupada, who is noted in the beginning of Teachings of Lord Chaitanya. Even after Chaitanya Charitamrta was complete, and fully released by BBT, this devotee, under the instruction of Srila Prabhupada, continued to work on Chaitanya Charitamrta.

 

The idea that the uttama adhikari is now gone, so he cannot be consulted as to his desire, this is terribly incorrect. He clearly stated that his disciples will continue to get personal guidance from him, long after he departs from this plane. So, he is carefully consulted by those who have been given this duty.

 

Reasons? Well, we can argue til doomsday. But consider this. If a need arises to present these books in Urdi, or the language of Myanmar, or Mauritius natives want to read these masterpieces in their own language, should the BBT refuse to provide these books in these languages because they cannot consult with the biological form of Srila Prabhupada? No? this is what is being said here, that no changes means no more translating these books into other languages, meaning that every town and village must learn english, german, or french, or just do without.

 

One cannot defeat this angle, proving that his AUTHORIZED disciples MUST continue to produce these books for ALL the world to have access to, which also means editorial staff must be employed.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS The displeasure Srila Prabhupada showed on certain books are freely admitted by BBT, and such things were corrected, Srila Prabhupada never stated that no one should ever be continuing the work that His Mission stands for.

[Guest guest]

Dear Devotees, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Alright, so let's look at the problem:

Jayadvaita Swami altered the interpretations of the original translation and Srila Prabhupad's purports to such an extend that it twists the entire explanation of the original work. This is done with permission of the GBC,or PBC(Polluted Body Commission in my opinion).

Now, pro-change devotees are quick to address the famed issue of "cattle-raising" being changed to "cow-protection" as a means of justifying their continuing editing frenzy of the sacred purports by SP.

However, there's a HUGE difference between changing a word into what He actually meant in the first place than changing SP's purports as He meant them to be in the first place and dull them down because it supposedly fits better that way in our time?

I mean comeon, that's like saying:"Okay, sorry Srila Prabhupada, but these purports are far too pure and much too Vedic in essence so we have decided that nowadays, people cannot understand this anymore and that what's being stated is too hard to achieve anyway so we will have to change and dull Your powerful statements down to suit today's hip crowd."

 

Example:

Bg 6.35 Original Version

"The Blessed Lord said: O mighty-armed son of Kunti, it is undoubtedly very difficult to curb the restless mind, but it is possible by constant practice and by detachment."

 

Revised & Enlarged Version

" Lord Sri Krsna said: O mighty-armed son of Kunti, it is undoubtedly very difficult to curb the restless mind, but it is possible by suitable practice and by detachment."

 

It may seem subtle, but I find the difference between "constant practice" and "suitable practice",or: whenever it suits you best instead of firmly determined, very substantial. And this is but a minute detail of the gross changes that are defiling SP's work as it is.

 

What it comes down to is this:

If you want make changes to the meaning of this sacred book,fine, but do it in your OWN name and NOT in his Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada's name as it is polluting his work .

 

An author sends his story to the editor to check the grammar and if need be to make it more punctual, not to have him change the entire story because he didn't like it!

 

We are all familiar with the test of passing on a sentence to the next listener, where at the end when the last person has received it there's a whole different sentence coming out than when it started. If this trend continues, the Gita as it is too is headed that way, and we should not let that happen.

 

Haribol!

 

[Guest guest]

In the instance of changing the ideology and translatory meanings of these great works of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, is it being suggested to apply our own names to writtings that we will write, that are an obvious plagerization of His Graces works.... will this justify a title change as well to something more modern like Bhagavad-Gita " as it was" or how about Bhagavad-Gita "as it will be"

or Srimad Bhagavad-Gita "as you want it" or Bhagavad-Gita "as you can handle it" We are adopting a very fanciful opinion of what Krsna consciousness is actually about....service to the servants of the servants of the servants...........is this clear.......? ? ? ?

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna! This is the first time i have visited this site... and i am worried by what i have read here.... why or what is the need to change Srila Prabhupadas Gita? It has achieved so much here in the UK... all the local libaries have it, my school has it..etc.

 

I dont understand why the devotees of Srila Prabhupada cannot seem to carry on his work without him... they seem to be causing so much contraversy... how do they come up with their own ideas to change Prabupadas work/will?

 

[Guest guest]

 

Nov.26. 2004

Sri Krsna Rasayatra...

 

Hare Krsna please accept humbled obeisances, glories to Srila Prabhupad, glories to Sri Sri Caitanaya Nityanada Prabhus,

 

re > " I don't understand why the devotees of Srila Prabhupada cannot seem to carry on his work without him"<

 

--prayenal payusah sabhya, kalav asmin yuge janah,

mandha sumanda-matayo, manda-bhagya hy upadrutah--

" O learned one, in this iron age of Kali men have but short lives. They are quarrelsome, lazy, misquided, unlucky and, above all, always disturbed."

 

> "how do they come up with their own ideas to change Prabhupada's work / will."? <

 

--himsanrta priya lubdah, sarva karmopajivinah, krsna sauca-paribhastas, te dvijah sudratam gatah--

" when brahmanas commit violence, speak lies, become greedy, earn their livlihood by any and all activities, lose their purity by sinful activities, they then become degraded into sudras."

 

The genuine success in Krsna consciousness is by becoming ---vihaya kamam yah sarvan-- " a person who has given up all desires for sense gratification.This understanding of Krsna consciousness is the basic principle of Peace."

 

Therefore in evaluating the present situations of Krsna consciousness movement, the question asked by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharajah becomes lucidly clear... --dusta mana ! tumi kisera vaisnava ? pratisthara tare, nirjanaera ghare, tava harinama kevala kaitava--

" my dear wicked mind ! what kind of devotee are you ? Simply for cheap adoration you sit in a solitary place and pretend to chant Hare Krsna, but your chanting is all cheating. " Are we asking ourselves daily this very pertinant question, checking our consciousness.?

 

His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada taught by the example-------mahajano yena gatah sa pantah---- " one must follow the path of the Mahajanas "

 

It is the expressed mercy of the Vaisnava Acaryas the example of true humility and surrender'(saranagati)'...that is the instruction given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Sri Radha Krsna to Arjuna--mayi sarvani karmani, sannyasyadhatma-cetasa, nirasir nirmano bhutva, yudhyasva vigota- jvarah--" Therefore O Arjuna, surrendering all your works unto Me, with full knowledge of Me, without desires for profit, with no claims to proprietorship, and free from lethargy, fight."

 

Being a Vaisnava devotee is not an easy or cheap thing , it is only the paucity of consciousness that inhibits ones progressive spiritual advancement in this life.

 

To become enamoured with, prestige , power, money, lust, greed, and, uxurious mentality is the reason why so many have fallen from the humble position of being an aspiring devotee, in order to take up where we left off before meeting our dearest Srila Prabhupada. Again we chew the already chewed.

 

When our Srila Prabhupada picked all of us up from the hellish existance we were accustomed to, he gave us the unlimited mercy and love only a genuine Vaisnava can give.

 

Today this is how we repay him, the fighting, arquing, and sinful activity in his name, leaves many people asking the same questions over and over again.....

 

It is a conscious choice whether we have the intestinal fortitude to follow the instructions Srila Prabhupada has given, without some concocted interpretation by limited perceptions and attachments.

 

Krsna consciousness the way that Srila Prabhupada has given is perfection in itself, it is the true path to perfection, regardless the personal interpretations made by persons with imperfect senses writting what ever they will.

 

Krsna consciousness is not open to interpretations......... service to the servant, of the servant, of the servant, is the way to perfect life.

 

--esa brahmi stitih partha---

"that is the way of the spiritual and Godly life"

--nainam prapya vimuhyati--

"after attaining which a man is not bewildered"

--stihvasyam anta-kale pi--

being so situated, even at the hour of death"

--brahma-nirvanam rcchati--

" one can enter into the Kingdom of God"

 

I guess a few persona have 're-lost' their way...given the non-sense and political jockeying....

 

Let us all with renewed vigor and determination endeavour to serve and please Our Srila Prabhupada and the entire sampradaya of their Lordships Sri Sri Caitanya Nityanada Prabhus, within the true sense of "trinad api sunecena"

 

Let everyone who ever came to Srila Prabhupada through personal contact, initiation or even as a friend to this wonderful movement he promotes, sincerely take up arms again against Maya, let us preach vigorously by example, to each other as well any willing soul.

 

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

please forgive my offensives and forward nature.....

 

I pray this meets everyone well in health and perspicacious in their personal endeavours in Krsna consciousness...

 

ever felicitate in the dust of the feet of genuine Vaisnava's ...

 

ys. gopijana dasa dasa

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

dont be so offensive with your words the have changed Srila Prabhupads book Srila Prabhupada never gave this Guru permission to do such a thing all mad people iskcon is really gone if only Srila Prabhupada was here to shut you all up Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

this person is telling a direct lie

[Guest guest]

without elaboration. The only lies Ive seen on the subject of this topic are those spoken by those who hate Srila Prabhupadas disciples for various reasons, some justified, some just flat out offensive and unfounded.

 

You will have to defeat Srila Prabhupadas statements in the conclusion to Chaitanya Charitamrta to prove me a liar. You will have to prove that Srila Prabhupada is dead and unable to guide his disciples to prove me a liar.

 

I am fully supportive to the rebel cause that speaks out against the past and present abuses by some of Srila Prabhupadas disciples. I cannot condone any interference in the guru disciple relationships, however. If you do not want to read these books, dont, but dont say they are wrong, because you have not been designated a critic by Srila Prabhupada, unlike JAS, who has been clearly described as an editor, and mercifully thanked for such efforts, by Srila Prabhupada.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

This whole subject very nasty.

 

Srila Prabhupada has stated anyone who puts forth his own interpretation without telling it like it is is simply being a rascal. The Word of God is perfect, and the guru is as good as God. If someone sees fit to change the guru's sober words, this is simply rascal behavior. The example is 'Thou shall not kill.' Rascals will say this means you shall not murder. Similarly you can find above the original verse and edited verse. This indicates rascal behavior. For such a devotee editor to change the guru's words thusly is only an act of the age of Kali. It will be misfortunate for future generations of disciples to receive a waterdowned version of our dearly beloved guru's books.

[Guest guest]

I recieved a Bhagavad Gita As It Is in 1999. I had spent over four years earnestly searching for God and the Truth. I studied the History of Wester Philosophy and Environmental Science in college and had traveled to and studied dozens of different Christian congregations, intentional New Age communities, Babaji Ashrams, Monasic Centers and such, looking for my purpose in life.

 

My answer came one day as I was visiting my mother in Denver and happened to see the ISKCON Denver Temple on my way to her house. It "pulled" me in and when I entered there was an evening Bhagavad Gita class going on. It was like an oasis in the desert.

 

I purchased a Bhagavad Gita As It Is and held it to my heart; I had been searching for so long....I had gone many weeks where I would do different kinds of yoga, not eating much, bathing in glacier fed streams, or fasting for weeks on end, in isolation out on farmlands and rural areas, meditating and praying,...

 

After all this I just knew that this Bhagavad Gita was the answer by the Lord of my heart to my sincere prayers and austerities...

 

And to this day the Bhagavad Gita is my life and soul, THERE IS SO MUCH THAT IS THERE IF WE ARE SINCERE IN OUR STUDY!!!

 

I am so thankful to have recieved Prabhupada's mercy and all of his books are amazing windows into the Spritual World.

 

I did not physically ever meet Srila Prabhupada but have had many deep and vivid experiences, both in the waking and the dreaming state where his presence and compassion is there, and I felt this when I recieved his Bhagavad Gita As It Is.

 

Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna! who are you & how can you call people names.How inmature YOU GET A BRAIN! GO AND CHANT SOME JAPA DONE YOU MIGHT HAVE BETTER THOUGHTS!!!!

[Guest guest]

This is how one advances. They follow instructions of guru, not the opinions of others.

 

This editing is something that Srila Prabhupada ORDERED some of his scholar-students to do. Maybe we did not get such an order, and some of us may be envious that some got such specific orders for specific duties, but our criticisms against those who have received such orders should not have much effect on a sincere disciple, who does not regard such counter-instruction from the grandstands.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

A key point is in revelations, at the end, where John writed that the curses will befall those who change the MEANING of the text. The meaning of Bhagavad Gita is not changed by JAS carrying the duties he was given by Srila Prabhupada. Nor has JAS claimed authorship of BGAII or other books, he is only continuing specific service prescribed by Srila Prabhupada.