The Dangers Of The "Feminist Movement" In ISKCON

[Guest guest]

I would like to offer my humble obeisances to the assenbled devotees..

 

I've been reading some old posts on Hinduism forum that some women have sent that blamed men for all their woes. It's ironic that many of these posts are also sexists, stereotypical, and demeaning to men. To say that "men seem to share a kind of machoism which makes them insensitive and cold." Has no place in the discussions of Krsna consciousness, since an equipoised devotee does not judge people because of their gender and the particular mode they find themselves.

 

That is seeing the outer body only, and just perpetuates the same old material consciousness to which the woman are saying they have been victims. To use the woman's issue as an excuse to stray from Krsna consciousness and refer to male devotees as insensitive, macho, etc. is not going to wash with those not interested in a woman's agenda and are merely interested in finally ending the whole material consciousness.

 

A saintly woman is secure in her identity as eternal spirit soul, and would not waste time defending her body, or her sex, etc. She would transcendentally understand that in maya there are always dualities and the saintly woman would not struggle against the dualities, but would remain neutral. She would have full knowledge that in the material world there are injustices, but those injustices were not to her, but to her material body that she possessed, and these 'injustices' were perpetuated from another 'body' caught in the three modes of nature, and the living entity within that body was not actually the perpetrator, but like herself, an eternal spirit soul falsely identifying with the actions of their present covering and acting out of ignorance..

 

Such saintly Vaisnavis would not identify with any material party or in any feminist movement or promote any segment of society based on the identification with any condition of this body. Today I am a man. In a few years a woman. Then a demigod. A dog. A fish. A tree. Then a worm. Then a bat. Then at last a lawyer. So from the vision of a transcendentalist, which of these flickering flashes of changing forms am I going to rally for? Just as I finally achieve success in placing the abused woman on the top of the hill, wham! I am in a man's body at the bottom again. Alas! Krsna Please pick us up from our confused state and place us at the feet of a realized soul.

 

The women of Krsna consciousness should be extra cautious that this focus on feminism does not trick them into again seeing the modes of nature as the reality. The modes of nature may make a man appear macho, but that is not the man. That is just the modes. And that is all that it is. And only a person in conditional consciousness will make judgements about persons based on the modes only instead of the qualities of the soul.

 

That is what our training in Krsna consciousness is for, and anything that is counterproductive to this end shall not bring us to the point of devotional service. All this "reverse-sexism" might lead to a certain segment in society improving their material position, but there is a difference between having an agenda to promote women over men and having a discussion to improve our Krsna consciousness by including the many instructions to and about females with the sole purpose of coming to Krsna consciousness.

 

If men have been wrong in their treatment to women it is because of the strong influence of maya and ignorance. It is due to their lack of Krsna consciousness. They are being compelled by ignorance and are acting on the bodily platform. Identifying with their male bodies, they exploit and mistreat others.

 

But I say that everyone in material consciousness mistreats others, because they do not know the spiritual nature of others. Women too, as much as men, treat others badly, are abusive, etc., when they are covered by materialism. If we just take the side of one faction, and work hard to minimize and blame the other factions or segments of society, then we too are being abusive to others because we are neglecting to give them the real nectar of devotion. We are just filling their ear holes with the descriptions of the temporary activities of the material modes of nature.

 

There is only one cure for the woes of the material world. But foolishly we make attempts at solving our problem by different processes. To scrutinize the faults of men in the hopes of making them change their behavior by "looking" at their maya is another of those methods. Thank God Srila Prabhupada has given us an alternative method of improving ourselves and others. He has given us the transcendental sound vibration that we can, simply by injecting the sound into the ears of hearers, purify such hearers of the ignorance and lack of Krsna consciousness that causes them to act in so many nonsense ways.

 

The world is full of persons acting in ignorance. Abusive men or women are no exception. They are acting against others abusively because they are thinking "I am a man", "this woman is inferior," or "this man is a macho pig who deserves to be punished," because they lack only one thing. That one thing is Krsna consciousness. And to instill that into the hearts of these unfortunate men and women is the greatest welfare work.

 

There is no need to analyze the different discrepancies. It is enough to understand that they are present in every segment of society such as the "macho men," or the "victimized women," etc. It is universal. And there still remains only one real cure. Make them Krsna conscious. Let them hear Bhagavad-Gita, and let them hear the vibrations of the transcendental songs by the pure devotees, and let them hear the glorious pastimes of Krsna.

 

Also,give them prasadam, and invite them to join in all the fun. If we just point out their faults, who will be attracted. Maybe man-haters will be attracted if we hold a meeting to focus on the faults of men, or just macho men will come if we hold a meeting to slander innocent women. But if we do not criticize any segment and make Krsna consciousness open to all and embrace the entire society and welcome everyone, in spite of their faults, then even the greatest abuser can be transformed into a Vaikuntha man in a short time.

 

Let the psychologist do the analyzing. And let the mayavadis and the "not this, not this, not this society" find the faults everywhere. And let the marriage counselors focus on material problems between the sexes. But, let the devotees chant and dance, and serve prasadam, and invite everyone to join, no matter what is going on in their guest's material life due to their past karma.

 

Affectionately Mahananda dasa

 

[Guest guest]

I sometimes visit the Chicago temple and it seems some ladies are of the type you mentioned.

Also i might be maried soon to a member. Could i ask you about patrivrata dharma in its details?

Do you think that ideal still exists in this period in the west?

[imported_Subala]

We all know about and read about what men supposed/used to do and women suppose/used to do from a puranas and etc...

 

And kali yuga is here, and the end result is as I percieve it that there is not enough leaders in our communities who set an example by demonstrating how KC grihastha couple should act.

 

Please don't take me wrong there are such devotees almost in every community who trying to do the best but there is no system to teach all of them to act on a same platform.

 

Prabhupada wanted us to go evey year to Mayaur or Vrindavana - who is doing it every year? We have seminars and classes but is there a system which allows Bhakta John from Washington DC and Bhakta Doe from New Zealand temple to get same teaching about our philosophy, view on devotee relashionship, marriage, behaviour, standarts. - no!

 

If I was looking for a solution - The solution to Unify teaching and philosophy and standarts shodl come from Monthly (weekly) tape program made by advanced preachers/devotees, and reviewed by GBC before it ships out to ALL the temples and communities which has to be on standing order to get this tapes and listen to them weekly.

 

So same message will go out to all the communities and this is the only way to keep 100s thousands of people unified in KC and philosophy.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Wow, I was really impressed with your response to the feminist movement within ISKCON. I am not a a member of ISKCON but always read AS IT IS. I have been to different ISKCON centres many times, such has the ones in Hong Kong and Denver, Colorado so I can eat Prasadam. So, I understand some of what you are saying. I guess the reason I am resonding to your entry is that I am surprised there could be such a feminist movement within such a seemingly tight-knit organization such as yours. Thanks again. Ben Tomlin

[Guest guest]

those involved in feminist ....or manist.... movements do so under the impression ... we are our bodies ....when the TRUTH of the matter is we are spirit souls residing in the apropo bodies we chose at death .... last time

so there really is no man or wo-man we are all souls trying to get HOME to GODHEAD....nuff said...

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Prabhus

women must be submissive i dont like how theses women are trying to be men i say leave it up to the men.the female energy is allways subservat to the male energy.People say im backwards but i dont care .Look at Radharani!Haribol

[Bhaktaneal]

Radharani...

you sound like you are pretty cool, and intelligent. Backwards no. You bring up an interesting point that I don't hear alot of. Looking at the example set by Srimati Radharani. There is nothing exploitive or mysogynistic about Her. She is the eternal potency of Lord Krishna.

[Guest guest]

Haribol Prabhuji

I can see that this planet is very confusing without the mahamanta how can we know anything.It is very easy for the woman to blame the man for her troubles.I know that we are just spirit souls and that women should be protected even from themselves.If a woman is following her Dharma,chanting she wont have conflicting desires that will lead her to misery & in the end will stop blaming the man who is just a spirit soul too.Most women i see do blame men and even hate them .What a sad world.I feel its the fathers responsiblty to teach his daughter the right way.What ever happens to the spirit soul is no one fault but there own the laws of nature.I dont like this femminist movement its wrong.women will act strong but can not protect themselves.we should accept what what Sri Krishna gives us and stop complaining.The Laws of Nature.best to chant Hare Krishna!

Maharani Devi Dasi(Australia)

[Guest guest]

Haribol,

 

I'm all for repelling all the sexist garbage being thrown around amongst devotees (not just in ISKCON). We see abuse often against women which I abhor, but in all fairness, I've also seen this "men must be punished" mentality amongst women.

 

The bottom line is, I think, is that it stops upon a true exercise in humility. Somebody out there gets burned, one way or another, either by an abusive man, or an abusive woman in the movement, and that abusee has 2 options; they either become very bitter as a result, and use the experience as an excuse in their mind to be an abuser themselves, or they exercise "trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada harih. The buck stops there. Karma ceases. Shanti is restored, and Radha Krsna dasya can truly hope to take root in the jiva.

[Guest guest]

women by nature are more compassionate and loving and nurturing, they are our mothers, that very famous hugging guru known as Ammachi or Amma calls all women to be women and not imitate men because it is the feminine energy that is most healing, the male energy is one of activity and is more impersonal, but the feminine is the loving and nurturing energy, calling all great women to be great mothers to us all and heal the world of its terrible strife

[Guest guest]

I highly disagree with previous assertions that women should be "submissive." I highly doubt it is written anywhere that women should be doormats. The lives of women today have improved dramatically over previous generations because of the work and sacrifice of men and women who thought that women were not being given the rights and freedoms that should be given to all God's children. How many injustices did Arjuna and the Pandavas suffer? Did Krishna tell him to accept his fate and deal with it? No. He told him to fight against the forces of evil. Fight for justice.

This fight for justice can be extended to anybody who's been mistreated for whatever reason like the color of their skin, their disablity, etc.

If it weren't for Gandhi, India may STILL have been under British rule. If it weren't for Dr. King, who knows how many blacks would still be getting lynched. I may have been forced to go to a different school because of my skin color.

No, I'm not a man-hater or anything. But I think if you expect to see Krishna in everyone, you have to respect everyone and no group should be oppressed, suppressed or generally bullied. Because it's wrong and it's sinful. And yes, I know that this world is impermanent and illusory. But I also think we have a duty to show compassion toward our fellow man. And I don't think that strictly dividing everyone's gender roles helps anyone. Do you think the world was a better place a 100 years ago when strict roles were prevalent? 200 years? Was the world more enlightened then? How many of you would want to live hundreds of years ago? Maybe in India during British rule? Or is it that people fear cultural and societal change and are blaming the women's movement while conveniently forgetting the past? Why go on and on about being vegetarian when you aren't willing to respect half of the human population as complete individuals?

I don't believe the point of the Gita was to throw your hands in the air and accept your fate, no matter what injustices were being done to you. Remember when Draupadi was being disrobed and Krishna came and saved her? Remember what he said afterward? He said that this kind of behavior is a societal problem and that those watching what was happening should have broken societal rules and helped Draupadi. Therefore, I see no conflict between helping our fellow man and Krishna's teachings.

[Guest guest]

Thank Mahananda Prabhu for such a Krishna conscious post.

May everyone come to understand and appreciate the vision you have described.