Conference Of Traditional Vaishnava Scholars

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The following is a report on a "Vidvat Gosthi" (conference of traditional vaishnava scholars) held at the Purnaprajna Vidyapith, Bangalore (traditional Samskrita educational institution of the Udipi Madhva Pejawar Math & others among the 8 Maths of Udipi) on Saturday, January 9, 1999.

 

Sri Vishvesha Tirtha Swamiji the Pithadhipati (head) of the Sri Pejawar Math of Udipi, Karnataka, (established by Sri Madhvacharya 750 years ago), presided over the conference.

 

Swamiji is a well known public figure in India and a well wisher of ISKCON. In 1995 he visited Mayapur during the inauguration festival of Srila Prabhupada's Pushpa Samadhi. Shortly he will be observing his 60th year in the sannyas ashrama. His shiksha Guru, Sri Vidyamanya Tirtha Swamiji, who is 87 years old, also attended the discussion that lasted for about 2 hours.

 

Pejawar Swamiji's introductory speech to the conference:

 

"ISKCON is a world wide movement established by Srila Prabhupada specifically with the aim of propagating Vishnu Bhakti. All the Vaishnava Acharyas desired this and *only this society is capable of spreading Vishnu bhakti.* In this endeavour we offer our help & co-operation to solve the problems of this society.

 

How the process of Vaishnava diksha, what is the system of initiation given in shastras what process should we follow, there is now a need for inquiry on these lines. In this connection the scholars following the parampara (traditions) will show us from the scriptures & agama shastras what the injunction are in this regard.

 

The aim of this meeting is to establish the authoritative injunctions from scriptures. However, how it is to be adopted practically is the decision of the ISKCON authorities (The ISKCON GBC)".

 

Beginning the discussion of diksha & the importance of a guru

 

Two scholars gave evidence from the "Tantra Saar" (Madhva sampradaya condensation of pancharatra agamas). In connection with the Narayan kavacha, Srimad Madhvacharya wrote that the Narayan Kavacha may not have an effect either due to not hearing it directly from the guru or either or the disciple is not qualified. Similarly, without directly receiving the name of the Lord & pleasing the guru by service, one may not get the desired result, i.e. liberation or perfection in human life.

 

The conclusion in the opinion of the first two scholars that spoke was summarised by Pejawar Swami who said that a living guru is indeed required.

 

Thereafter, certain questions/doubts were presented for discussion by Sri Samskritananda Hari of Baroda. They were:

 

1. For self realisation, is diksha/initiation required from a living guru?

 

Pejawar Swami replied in the affirmative.

 

2. If the guru is fallen, what happens to the disciple?

 

This question was answered by the scholars present & by Pejawar Swamiji as follows; If the guru falls down, it does NOT affect the spiritual life & spiritual advancement of the disciple, because at the time of initiation, the guru was in good standing.

 

3. In the physical absence of the guru, can a person take diksha from a previous acharya (without his physical presence in this world - after his disappearance)?

 

Pejawar Swami said that for God realization, a relationship with Srila Prabhupada was essential, but that after his departure/disappearance it must be done through a living guru.

 

The point was also raised by me that Prabhupada has mentioned "disciple of my disciple" and "granddisciple". This principle was upheld several times during the course of the entire discussion by the Pejawar Swamiji.

 

Then Sri Samskritananda asked;

 

"We have heard that only an Uttama Adhikari can give initiation. We have also heard that Prabhupada had selected only 11gurus, but none were never selected as Acharya or head of the institution. So who is authorized to give initiation then."

 

Pejawar Swami said that the guru must directly "speak" the mantra to the disciple. For spiritual perfection a guru is required.

 

One group says; "only Prabhupada can be the guru" Pejawar Swami was asked by Samskritananda. They say that they are directly taking diksha from Prabhupada, even after his passing.

 

Then Sri K.T. Pandurangi, retired head of the department of Sanskrit at Bangalore University, questioned "that out of 11 gurus appointed by Srila Prabhupada, since 7 or 8 had already fallen down & become grihastas, the balance might too fall. So what would happen to the ISKCON institution in that event?"

 

At once Pejawar Swamiji said that in that case any other qualified gurus may give diksha and the parampara will thus continue.

 

At that point I clarified to the assembly that there are now more gurus who were appointed by the GBC and that they are in good standing.

 

Then Pejawar Swamji read aloud a copy of the letter of July 9, 1977.

 

Pejawar Swami once again stated that there must be guru between Srila Prabhupada and new adherents. That after Prabhupada's physical disappearance, new gurus, as per the decision of the GBC (he stated this clearly) should carry on the parampara.

 

He said that the gurus should not think that they are delivering their disciples, but that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Prabhupada are delivering the disciples and that they are instruments in the hands of Srila Prabhupada and Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. However those who did not take initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada are NOT disciples of Srila Prabhupada, but they are GRAND DISCIPLES (pra-shishyas).

 

Then Sri K.T. Pandurangi clearly stated that one group would like ISKCON to adopt the system of the (Punjabi) Sikhs, because Prabhupada did not appoint any successor.

 

At that time, I asked if it was possible for Prabhupada to continue to give diksha after his departure from this world.

 

Swamiji replied, "no, it is not possible".

 

I then informed the assembly that the system mentioned by Sri Pandurangi was indeed rejected by the ISKCON GBC. The GBC says that Srila Prabhupada indeed provided for diksha gurus after his departure from this world, but did not appoint one head of the institution. Prabhupada had invested all decision making powers regarding ISKCON in the GBC.

 

Then Pejawar Swamiji remarked that the devotees within ISKCON ought to co-operate with and follow the decisions of the GBC.

 

Sumitra Krishna Prabhu (General Manager of ISKCON, Madras) put the following question to Pejawar Swami, "should a diksha guru be respected, to which Swamiji replied, "yes".

 

Then Vidvan Gauranga Prabhu asked Swamiji; "I am an initiated disciple of Jayapataka Swami. If he asks me for a glass of water, should I respect his order?" The scholars answered in the affirmative. Then he asked, "If I don't bring the water, then is it wrong or offensive (guru-aparadha or guror avajna)?" The Pandit's replied: "it is guru-aparadha".

 

Pejawar Swamiji replied emphatically that you must serve your diksha guru (their term: "mantra-upadeshaka-guru").

 

Then at one point nearing the end of the scholarly discussion on the question of diksha according to pancharatrika shastras, H.H. Bhakti Vikasa Swami suggested that if Chanchalapati Prabhu, the Vice President of ISKCON Bangalore had any questions, then he may kindly be allowed to put them to the assembly.

 

An open discussion ensued wherein Chanchalapati Das explained to the Pejawar Swamiji the position of the "Final Order" [paper written by K.K. Desai] that Srila Prabhupada wanted Ritviks and not regular Gurus. "That was his "Final Order".

 

Pejawar Swami did not agree to the interpretation of Chanchalapathi das and replied that Srila Prabhupada always followed Sadhu, Shastra, and Guru. At this point one of the scholars added that you cannot go by just one letter, but the letter must be seen in the context of the entirety of Prabhupada's teachings. He also mentioned that if there is a confusion in the letter then we must refer to shastras. He said Srila Prabhupada, as an Acharya respected all the four sampradayas and Shastras.

 

As the meeting was adjourning, Sri Ranga Priya Deshika Swamiji, a disciple of the Parakala Math of the Ramanuja Sampradaya arrived.

 

After speaking words aimed at bringing about a peace and reproachment between the opposing opinions, several persons put questions to him.

 

Vidvan Gauranga Prabhu asked Sri Ranga Priya Deshika Swamiji; "I am an initiated disciple of Jayapataka Swami. Should I follow his orders"?

 

Swamiji replied "yes". "Definitely".

 

Lilanath Prabhu asked if we can make fun of the diksha guru, who gave us mantra upadesha, and Swamiji replied, "no, it is wrong to do so." He then asked, "Is the disciple who received mantra-diksha from his guru bound to follow the orders of the diksha-guru?" to which Ranga-priya Swami replied, "Yes."

 

Anukulya Kesava Prabhu asked Ranga Priya Swamiji that "if your guru is in good standing, can you reject him?" Swamiji replied, "no, you cannot reject him, that is an offence".

 

Sevatula Prabhu (brahmachari of the Bangalore temple) asked Ranga Priya Swamiji that there is a system of persons who take direct initiation from Sri Raghavendra Swami at his Samadhi (Brindavanam). Swamiji then replied, "Yes, it is possible in rare cases." Then Sevatula Prabhu told Anukulya Kesava Prabhu: "See, just listen to what he is saying." Then Anukulya Kesava Prabhu asked Swamiji for clarification: "What is the meaning of ‘rare'?" Swamiji replied: "'Rare' mean rare. If anyone has a dream in which Prabhupada asks him to take direct initiation from me, then it may be valid." Then Anukulya Prabhu asked Swamiji "Can an entire group of 50/60 persons take direct initiation from Prabhupada?" and Swamiji replied, "No, I told you. ‘Rare' means rare". Then Swamiji further clarified: "'Rare' means once in a million. Once in a while, such direct initiation may occur."

 

The meeting then ended.

 

The following Pithadhipathis (heads of Maths), Sannyasis & scholars attended the discussion;

 

H.H. Vishvesha Tirtha Swamiji, Pithadhipati of Sri Pejawar Math, Udipi

 

H.H. Vidyamanya Tirtha Swamiji, Pithadhipati of Sri Palimar Math, Udipi

 

H.H. Ranga Priya Deshika Swami - Sri (Ramanuja) Sampradaya (sannyasi) (and retired Physics Professor).

 

H.H. Bhakti Vikas Swami - ISKCON Sannyasi Preacher & Author

 

H.H. Vedavyas Priya Swami - ISKCON Regional Secretary, N. India

 

Prof. D. Prahladacharya - Head of the department of Sanskrit, Bangalore University

 

Sri N.T. Srinivas Iyengar - Rtd Prof. Of Sanskrit Grammar & Vedanta, Jayachamarajendra College, Bangalore

 

Sri K. Hayavadana Puranika, Ex-Principal, Purnaprajna Vidyapitha (hereafter - PPVP), Bangalore

 

Sri D. Ramachandra, Principal, PPVP

 

Sri Samskritananda Hari - Rig Veda Vidvan

 

Sri P. Keshava Bayari, Senior Prof. PPVP

 

Sri A. Haridas Bhatt, Prof. Of Nyaya, PPVP

 

Sri K. Ananta Tantri, Prof. of Alankar, PPVP

 

Sri Vitthal das Bhat, Asst Prof. Of Dvaita Vedanta, PPVP

 

Sri P. Venkatesh Bayari, Asst Prof. Of Literature, PPVP

 

Sri A. Guru Prasada, Asst Prof of Alankara, PPVP

 

Sri Satyanarayana Acharya, Lecturer, PPVP

 

Sri Tirumala Kulkarni, Lecturer, PPVP

 

Sri C. H. Barinath, Senior lecturer, PPVP

 

Sri H.P. Nagaraj, Lectuer, PPVP

 

Sri K.S. Badari Narayana Acharya, Lecturer, PPVP

 

- - - - - - - -

 

The above information submitted for your kind consideration.

 

dasanudas,

 

Basu Ghosh Das

 

Camp: "Ramalaya", Bangalore

 

Dated January 10, 1999

 

[krishnaji]

jaisrikrishan...tell me about new programmes of ISKCON.