Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 It is not really disputed that Tulsidas' Ramayan is a work of genius. However, could someone explain why ISKCON do not really regard it as dharma? Jai Sita Ram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 In a letter Srila Prabhupada wrote to somebody he said that don't read Ramacharita Manas as 'they' his disicples had no idea whos translations they were reading. And they could have been 'tinged' with Mayavada. This is the actual meaning. I guess that letter was circulated around and got to a forum and then it all 'blew off'. Until this day it still causes confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 If that is true then Srila Prabhupada is a bit foolish to say that the Manas is Mayavi. I regard the Sri Ramcharita Manas as relevant as any other modern scripture. Each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 You foolish person.. Srila Prabhupada said that 'some people in India' misrepresented Ramacharita Manasa. [Like they always do for $$$]. So His disiples would not have known who did this. So Prabhupada warned them. This was in a private letter in the 1970's. And it has nothing really to do with right now as His disples are competent to know. Please try to understand what I just said. Otherwise you create a great blunder about who Prabhupada is. Your the FOOL. I hope you post back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitaichandra Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Does anyone here know or remember the pastime involving Shambuka ? If yes, what are your opinions on that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 You foolish person.. Srila Prabhupada said that 'some people in India' misrepresented Ramacharita Manasa. [Like they always do for $$$]. So His disiples would not have known who did this. So Prabhupada warned them. This was in a private letter in the 1970's. And it has nothing really to do with right now as His disples are competent to know. Please try to understand what I just said. Otherwise you create a great blunder about who Prabhupada is. Your the FOOL. I hope you post back. Each to their own. If you think that I'm a fool without knowing me or my background then that is your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Did you actually read what I said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 From wikipedia: The oldest mention of Shambuka occurs in the Ramayana of Valmiki, in the last book of the epic, Uttara-kanda.After Rama returns to Ayodhya and is crowned the king of Ayodhya, a child-death occurs in the kingdom. He is told that calamities, such as this, occur when Dharma is not followed in a kingdom. Rama tries to find out the reason and comes to know that a Shudra caste person called Shambuka is performing penance which he is not supposed to do according to the Varna sytem rules prevailing in that period. He is executed personally by Rama. This incident is quoted often as an example of caste/varna-based cruelty and to condemn Rama as a heartless, blind follower of varna-based rules. However, the implication of this incident is far from clear. To begin with, it occurs in the Uttara-Kanda, believed by many to be an interpolation and not the work of Valmiki. Even if this issue is not pertinent to understanding the tale, it is quite bizarre. After revealing to Rama the reason for the death of the Brahmana’s son, it is added that this is the result of the Shudra violating the rules of the TRETA age. This is the age in which the tale is set and the present degenerate Kali age comes only after an intermediate Dwapara one. The book says that the austerities are forbidden to the Shudra's in Treta and Dwapara. Considering the fact that all of 'historical' time is set in Kali, the incident could hardly be a template for Shudra-behaviour of any time after about 3000 B.C.! To complicate the mater further, when Rama sees Shambuka, he is hanging upside down and trying to gather enough merit to enter heaven in his won physical body! This looks like a mirror-image of the tale in Bala-Kanda of Ramayana,‘The Book of Childhood’, about Trishanku. By no stretch of imagination is he an ordinary Moksha seeking mendicant. All this becomes more puzzling when we meet a non-Brahmana/Kshatriya ascetic in 'The Book of Ayodhya' in the same epic. When Dasaratha recounts a terrible deed of his impetuous youth, he tells show he shot a young ascetic (not named by Valmiki) in the forest. The dying boy absolves the prince of the sin of 'Brahmincide' by telling him that his father is a Vaishya and the mother a Shudra. This old couple is praised in glowing terms in the passages that follow. Does this mean that there was no prohibition on austerities for Vaishyas and Shudras in Treta? Or was it a Brahmincide, quite permissible in the ancient times, desperately disguised by later pedants? An even more unambiguous story that makes a mockery of the Shambuka incident can be found in 'The Book of the Forest'. In search of Sita, Rama and his brother arrive at the hermitage of a lady hermit called Shabari. Her name indicates that she is clearly a forest tribal, outside the pale of varnas. She is again glorified in many terms and these passages are not really cast in Bhakti terms to make it a very late addition. In addition she mentions that her teachers were the disciples of sage Matanga: the name is same as that of another tribal community. Kalidasa (circa 4 A.D) mentions the incident of Shambuka in Raghuvamsa without any comment, whereas Bhavabhuti (circa 7 A.D) is clearly uncomfortable with the story in his UttaraRamaCharita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Did you actually read what I said? Yes I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 guest, one doesn't have to know you to realize that you are a fool. Firstly to to even think negatively of an empowered acharya of the status of Prabhupada is foolish. Secondly you are also foolish because you do not seem to understand that Prabhupada was referring to particular translation(s) which have been misinterpreted and contain a mayavada philosophy. Prabhupada always referred to Tulasi Dasa as a bhakta. Pls see here: "So he became a great devotee of Rama, Tulasi dasa. His book, Rama-carita-manasa, 'Thinking always of Rama,' that is his book. It is very famous book, and that is the only important literature in the Hindi language, Rama-carita-manasa." (Room Conversation with Brahmananda, April 12, 1969) "Devotee: Tulasi dasa said that he wanted to see Rama. Prabhupada: Yes. That is devotee's inclination. That we must have." (Room Conversation SB 6.1.14 Nov 10, 1970 Bombay, India) "And Tulasi dasa, he has also said… Tulasi dasa is big poet in Hindi language. He has written the Rama-carita-manasa. His opinion… Not only his opinion, that is the Vedic opinion, that… He says, dhol gamar stri sudra, pasu sudra nari, ei ei sab sasana ke adhikari (?). So this statement will not be very palatable to the Western girls." (Lecture SB 5.6.4 Nov 26, 1976 Vrndavana, India) "The Tulasi dasa Ramayana means Rama-carita-manasa. It is not Ramayana. Rama-carita-manasa. He was devotee of Lord Ramacandra. So as he was thinking of Lord Ramacandra, he has written. So he was a learned scholar, brahmana, he must have read Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavatam. So all his translation is there on the basis of the sastra, especially Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. You'll find many parallel passages. But Gita is the summary of all Vedic literature, and it is spoken by the Personality of Godhead." (Evening Darsana July 8, 1976 Washington DC) "…aprameyam anagham nirvana-santi-pradam brahma-sambhu-phanindras tebhyo 'nisam vedanta-vedyam vibhum sura-gurum maya-manusya-harim vande 'ham karunakaram raghu-varam bhu-pala-cudamanim: This is a verse composed by a great devotee, Tulasi dasa. He was a devotee of Lord Ramacandra." These are just some quotes . There are many others also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Whoever commits a great offense against an exalted vaishnava like Srila Prabhupada cannot reach higher goal. So the person who has written offensively about srila prabhupada, I request you to kindly put your "false ego aside" and pray for forgiveness. Krishna or Rama will forgive you. Otherwise ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Bollocks. Thats exactly what the swaminarayans say to people who question their beliefs. Are people not allowed to question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Prabhupada is a great saint who has done much work for humanity by translating the Gita as well as other works. I have nothing but admiration for him. But why do I not have a right to question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hare Krishna! In response to Prabhupada is a great saint who has done much work for humanity by translating the Gita as well as other works. I have nothing but admiration for him. But why do I not have a right to question? You have the rights to question.........but is it not presumptuous to call someone a FOOL at the drop of a hat, never mind a exalted VAISHNAVA? So, asking a question is not the same as calling someone a FOOL. Please do not use words that is not appropriate! Haribol! anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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