Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Hare Krishna, I'm troubled by the following, would appreciate answers: Prabhupada said Women are not as intelligent as men, and they are also not to be trusted. Coupled with this, Women have to go through the pain of periods, childbirth etc According to the Law of Karma and Reincarnation - nothing happens without a reason - and so can one infer that if you are born a woman, you must have sinned in a previous life? If not, then what is the explanation that ALL women have to go through the above mentioned pains? Haribol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Haribol! Sri Sri Radha Krsna ki Jaya! My good friend and I were just talking about this statement last night. It is indeed controversial, but look deeper. Prabhupada is not insulting anyone here. The message can be easily misunderstood as one of my female friends just did. When women and children are exploited by others, usually grown men, they become conditioned to be in a state of ignorance. Things like prostitution, rape, child-abuse,etc.are all forms of these exploitations. Men are no longer providing protection to their family and friends, instead they show very bad examples and no longer teach Krsna consciousness. They too are ignorant. And actually on a spiritual level, we are all female souls and the Lord is masculine,we are the lovers and He is the beloved.Being male or female in this lifetime doesn't change your spiritual position as a servant of the Lord. But it is important that you are human and have the free will and opportunity to decide to go back to Godhead. Lesser species cannot make this decision, only humans. male or female bodies. hope I provided some help to you. your servant , Zachary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Haribol friends, Prabhupada is not belittling women. Just see: Verse and purport with my comments in ( ). Only to help you see ALL of what Prabhupada is saying, and not simply the one line. When read and understood as a whole, one can easily see the meaning and Prabhupada's point. Verse: When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of the family become corrupt, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny. PURPORT Good population in human society is the basic principle for peace, prosperity and spiritual progress in life. The varnasrama religion's principles were so designed that the good population would prevail in society for the general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. As children are very prone to be misled, women are similarly very prone to degradation. (if women and children are misled and exploited as we see they are in the world today, they are easily prone to degradation) Therefore, both children and women require protection by the elder members of the family. By being engaged in various religious practices, women will not be misled into adultery (and this is what is happening because of the exploitation of men today) According to Canakya Pandita, women are generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy (Prabhupada says generally, because the general mass of women are degraded by the exploits of men,therefore rendering them less intelligent and not trustworthy, this can be easily seen in our Sexist Perverted Society today where children are exposed to half or fully naked women on mtv, movies, television, magazines, ect, ect... what to speak of how women are treated by the majority of men as sex objects) So, the different family traditions of religious activities should always engage them, and thus their chastity and devotion will give birth to a good population eligible for participating in the varnasrama system. On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma naturally the women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. (just think how many 15 year old girls are having babies by men who don't take care of them, countless rapes, incest and abortions ect, ect...) Irresponsible men also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood the human race at the risk of war and pestilence. (Prabhupada also shows the fault of Irresponsible, Exploitive men who provoke adultery and countless other defilements of themselves and women) Prabhupada has said numerous times that women who are devotees in Self-realization and devotion, realize they are not the body, and engage their intelligence, faith, chastity, motherly nature and simplicty in the greatest glory of Krsna's service and are priceless gems in this world. Such is the glory of a woman who is respected and respects and knows herself as Eternal Spirit Soul and Servant of Krsna. Such examples of such Glorious Women are found in the Bible such as Mother Mary, Mary Magdalene, Anna, Elizabeth, ect..and in the Srimad Bhagavatam: Radha, Parvati, Drapadi, Devaki, Pingala, Kunti, the Gopi's and countless others here and within all traditions and places from time immemorial. Ofcourse none of these mentioned here were ordinary women but are truly pure examples for us. The CD Dasi, by Karnamrta dasi : Prayers of Women, is perfect testimony of the Glories of Self-Realized and Surrendered Women unto Krsna. So you may be inspired by their perfect examples. Be Glorious Dear Mother! Radhe Syam Haribol, ys, saksi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Haribol, I appreciate your answers, but you haven't answered the question. Have women sinned in previous lives to be born in a female body? Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 dear one, i shall answer your question truthfully, the path of the Vaishnava is to be that of servant, and who serves best but the mother, behind every "great" man is the mother who gave him life and nurtured him, it is the mother who sacrafices and serves without any lust for reward, but simply out of love, women were considered to be inferior because men are domineering have always made them inferior, if you withhold education from women, like was done in the past, of course they will lack intellectual ability, it has nothing to do with gender, but is all of this the result of bad karma, i tell you it is the result of good karma, Srila Prabhupada said he knew when he was on the right track because he experienced greater resistence, God challenges most those he loves most because you can't be a great devotee until you are tested to the limit, and women have certainly been tested, i am a man and i owe ALL of my good qualities to great women in my life, men everywhere can learn from the strength, love, service and intelligence of women, the problem with the feminist movement is that women started behaving like men, this didn't solve the problem, women's femininity is a strength, i pray for the day when men and women can be leaders in unison, the world will not survive without the balance between the masculine and feminine, Sri Sri Radha-Krishna, and just because a text or an "authority" says something DO NOT believe it blindly, God gifted you all with intelligence and discrimination, use your powers of logic and intuition and you will see plainly how truly great women are, this also applies to gay people, do not allow yourselves to be disempowered anymore, KRSNA resides in your heart, stand up and be counted as one of the most beloved devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, no longer tolerate any such nonsense, it has gone on too long, Venerable Tenzin Palmo is an excellent role model for female yogis or yoginis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 1) how have feminists acted like men? give examples 2) so actually because of good karma, women are born with an inferior body and have to go through pain of childbirth, oppression and periods? Is that how the material energy and reincarnation treats those with good karma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 does child birth make women inferior? why is it wrong to eat cows, because we drink their milk and therefore the cow is our mother, that is the teaching of Srila Prabhupada, he also said that blessed are those who are tested with physical hardship but still act in devotional service, how dare anyone say women are inferior, especially as a result of childbirth, if anything that makes them superior, it certainly makes them stronger not weaker, that is the height of ignorance i can't believe i am dignifying it with an answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 vaishnavism is a school, if you want to understand it, you have to pass through a study process... you have to consider prabhupada's teachings as the whole, a phrase picked up from the context will not help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Hare Krishna, --Hariii Bol. I'm troubled by the following, would appreciate answers: --OK. Prabhupada said Women are not as intelligent as men, and they are also not to be trusted. --If a woman is in Krishna Consciousness (KC) then she is 1000 times more intelligent than any ordinary man that is not living in KC. Coupled with this, Women have to go through the pain of periods, childbirth etc --Yep, heavy, isn't it? According to the Law of Karma and Reincarnation - nothing happens without a reason - and so can one infer that if you are born a woman, you must have sinned in a previous life? --All we know is that lust tendencies are 9 times higher for women than men. If not, then what is the explanation that ALL women have to go through the above mentioned pains? --Higher lust tendencies, less control over it. Haribol! --Hare Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 in kali yuga everyone's sudra and mleccha.. so caste and sex differences are zero... materially spiritually we are not men and women, we are eternal spiritual souls taking prabhupada's teaching as the whole we see that he did not make any real distinctions between women vaishnava disciples and men vaishnava disciples he gave initiation to women he gave brahmin status to women he had women preachers and leaders we have to greet the deities a woman devotee chanting govindam prayer in all temples all over the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 so in previous ages there were bigger differences between male and female? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 that the woman were not socially independent from men.. they followed first the father, then the husband, then the sons but it is very difficult to understand these times because power was interpreted as service and responsability and because it was (and is) recommended to be a father or husband if we can bring sons and wife back to godhead so the perspective was very different.. and the oppression and ijustice was totally absent from the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 so are we to conclude that in previous ages, it was a woman's ultimate duty to treat her husband as her Lord? (in Mahabharata it clearly states that a woman who treats her husbaand and worships him as her Lord will acheive Liberation - there is no other requirement of her)... Yet, in Kali Yuga, does a woman have to be loyal to her husband no matter what kind of a man he is? I'm guessing no cos u said there is no difference in gender intelligence in Kali Yuga... What would be the process followed by a woman in the previous ages if her husband was beating her or making her suffer - who would she be able to complain to? Brahmins? Her fatheer's family? Haribol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Frankly being a man or women does not matter because our soul recognnizes neither Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humble Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 "All we know is that lust tendencies are 9 times higher for women than men." -From what teaching do you draw this conclusion, BruzWayne? Hare Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I thought the point was that a man has high sexual desires, and a woman has high desires for material possession (i.e. wealth)... While the man is better able to control his sexual desires, a woman always gets her way in material possessions... Subsequently it is important for a man serious about spiritual life not to get married to a woman infatuated with material desires... With Vaisnavas its different, but you just have to look around you, who feels the need to take care of their looks more? Men or women? Even among devotees... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humble Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 --All we know is that lust tendencies are 9 times higher for women than men. Where, BruzWayne, do you draw this knowledge from? Hare Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 exactly, i didn't know about this link between women and lust either! i thought it was men and lust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humble Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Yes, I am in agreement, and am most keen to learn where BruzWayne came by this knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 Have women sinned in previous lives to be born in a female body? ...if we are born in material world we have done some sin. otherwise we were in the spiritual world (other answers are useless.. more or less everyone in the material world is a sinner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 Yet, in Kali Yuga, does a woman have to be loyal to her husband no matter what kind of a man he is? ..no... but if possible he has to think about carefully before marry. To breal a marriage is a bad karma for both husband and wife What would be the process followed by a woman in the previous ages if her husband was beating her or making her suffer - who would she be able to complain to? Brahmins? Her fatheer's family? ...brahmins, king, father Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 prabhupada wanted,that both, man and woman, would have an equal opportunity to realize that they are not woman/man, but spirit soul. wife should allways follow husband in every way (if husband is not fallen), otherwize, if her husband is fallen, she should live him. Krsna has made things work like that if woman follows her husband, she will allso make spiritual progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 there is some mistakes...she should leave her husband,not live wit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 The question have women done some bad karma to be a woman seems not thought out and shows limited understanding of philosophy. Its our tendency to get caught up in our small world and start comparing our little problems. So child birth, periods mean bad karma? Yes So does death deasease and old age which all of us go through. So does working like a dog to mantain your family. All bad previous bad karma. Having a human body bad karma. All these things and more are bad karma, one life born in a poor family one time in a rich one time as a woman one time as a hog, all bad karma, which is actually good as it helps us realise that this isnt our real home. So im born as a woman in this life so let me judge myself against some bloke that doesnt go through pmt, ohhh he doesnt go through it i must of had more bad karma. I think this reasoning is foolish not very wholistic. Yes a man and woman have there own natures and can be utilised in different waya, each has positives and negatives. A human is supposed to be inferior to demigods in terms of material ability intelligence etc, but still its is said that humans have more of a chance to go back to krishna. Why? Because they DONT have tooo much good karma. Too much distracting oppulence. For a devotee good karma is dangerous and can lead us to matter rather than spirit. Hope this perspective helps. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Sorry just had to add this, Its our tendency to compare good karma bad karma, not relising that it is like comparing wet stole and the other like say hot stool. The material world is comared to stool, different types, some beings like one type others liek another. A devotee tries to get out of this world. I heard that bhaktisidhanta swami said, the material world is like a toliet stop trying to make it a comfortable place, just do your business and get out. YS Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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