Is the mantra useless?

[Guest guest]

Everyone I know that is learned says that any mantra is ineffective unless one gets initiated by a guru, who himself has received initiation from someone else. And I have chanted the hare krsna mantra thousands of times, and have not achieved the state of pure consciousness (no mind).I don't wish to cause offence to anybody but if this is the most powerful maha-mantra, why is it static and powerless? I think that one must get a mantra initation from a guru for any enlightenment to take place. Any comments, suggestions?

[Guest guest]

Everyone I know that is learned says that any mantra is ineffective unless one gets initiated by a guru

...it is better to say that hare krsna mantra is for everyone, and because harekrsna is asking service, naturally it leads to the desire to serve krsna through a pure vaishnava... so a guru is essential to chant hare krsna and chanting leads naturally to the desire to serve a spiritual master, no contraddiction

 

And I have chanted the hare krsna mantra thousands of times, and have not achieved the state of pure consciousness (no mind)

...we have layers on layers to material contamination, it is not so easy to chant purely and without offences the mahamantra, and you have also said that you have not surrendered to a guru, so it is very difficult to achieve the highest goal..

 

I don't wish to cause offence to anybody but if this is the most powerful maha-mantra, why is it static and powerless?

...if we do not chant without offences, that it is the real chanting, it is not possible to judge the effect or the power of mahamantra, if i have never gone in china i cannot judge it

 

I think that one must get a mantra initation from a guru for any enlightenment to take place.

..definitely yes... but searching for a guru is not a material business, the only real system to call a guru to save us is chanting mahamantra, "radhe (=hare) please give me krsna..", and the representative of radhe comes.... the guru

[GODSEED]

AUM SHREE VISHNAVE NAMAH

 

LOOK MY FRIEND,

FIRST OF ALL YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT IS A MANTRA.

A MANTRA IS NOT MERELY A LINEAR NOTES WRITTEN BY A SPIRITUAL POET. IT HAS A DEEP AND WIDE MEANING.

SO WHEN YOU DONT KNOW ENGLISH AND SAY "I THANK YOU", YOU OBVIOUSLY DONT KNOW ITS MEANING AND YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW DRY AND ROBOTIC IT LOOKS.

 

YOUR EYES ALWAYS REFLECT YOUR INNER FEELINGS. SO IF YOU THANK SOMEONE WITHOUT ANY GRATITUDE, ITS MERELY ROBOTIC.YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOU CHANT.

 

EVERYTHHING NOT SUPPORTED BY INNER FEELING AND HEART, IS LIKE A VOID.

 

SO WHEN YOU OFFER A PRAYER, I.E. A MANTRA, YOU SHOULD KNOW ITS MEANING. OTHERWISE ITS A DEAD SENSUAL EXPRESSION.

 

SO WHEN YOU CHANT THE MANTRA, DONT LET YOUR MIND WONDER AWAY IN THE WORLDLY MATTERS. KEEP IT STABLE, FOR THAT YOU MAY PRACTICE PRANAYAMA/MEDITATION FOR A FEW MINUTES, OR MORE EASILY JUST TAKE OUT THE GODS PHOTOFRAPH AND KEEP CONCENTRATING INTO HIS COMPASSIONATE EYES. JUST TO SETTLE THE DUST OF THOUGHTS. AND THEN START WIPING THEM OUT WITH DEEP-FELT CHANTING OF MANTRA.

 

WHAT SHOULD YOU DO!

 

1. KNOW THE MEANING OF WHAT YOUR MANTRA IS.

 

2. BEFORE CHANTING, SEAT WITH CROSSED LEGS, IN A SILENT PLACE, CLOSE YOUR EYES, WATCH YOUR BREATH COME IN AND GO OUT, AND KEEP YOUR SPINAL-CORD UPRIGHT, NOT STIFF, JUST UPRIGHT.

 

3. ONCE THE JUMPING MIND IS SETTLED, START CHANTING THE MANTRA. LOOK, QUANTITY IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN QUALITY. SO DONT BOTHER COUNTING THEM, JUST MAKE SURE YOU FEEL THE 'MEANING OF THE MANTRA' AS YOU CHANT IT. ITS GOTTA BE SLOW.

 

4. FEELING IS MORE IMPORTANT. YOU CAN TRY BY STARTING TO IMAGINE, FEELINGS MAY FOLLOW.

 

5. AND PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT DO YOU CHANT THE MANTRA FOR, I.E MATERIAL PROSPERITY, A WISH, PEACE, SATISFACTION, PLEASE TELL ME, WITH THE HOLY'S HELP, WE CAN SOLVE IT OUT.

 

6. NEVER LOOSE THE FAITH IN THE INFALLIBLE.

 

HARI AUM TAT SAT

[Guest guest]

FIRST OF ALL YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT IS A MANTRA.

...it helps, but a real mantra works even if we do not know what we say or hear

 

SO WHEN YOU OFFER A PRAYER, I.E. A MANTRA, YOU SHOULD KNOW ITS MEANING. OTHERWISE ITS A DEAD SENSUAL EXPRESSION.

...wrong, the mantra is a reality independent from our understanding, mantra is krishna. Even plants, walls and stones around us take advantage when we recite mahamantra

 

SO WHEN YOU CHANT THE MANTRA, DONT LET YOUR MIND WONDER AWAY IN THE WORLDLY MATTERS. KEEP IT STABLE, FOR THAT YOU MAY PRACTICE PRANAYAMA/MEDITATION FOR A FEW MINUTES

....there's no need.. to be more concentrated on mahamantra we have to recite.... mahamantra. Mantra is itself the practice and the system to practice better

 

2. BEFORE CHANTING, SEAT WITH CROSSED LEGS, IN A SILENT PLACE, CLOSE YOUR EYES, WATCH YOUR BREATH COME IN AND GO OUT, AND KEEP YOUR SPINAL-CORD UPRIGHT, NOT STIFF, JUST UPRIGHT.

...not necessary, there's no rules, everyone has his own way to chant. The important thing is concentration

 

4. FEELING IS MORE IMPORTANT. YOU CAN TRY BY STARTING TO IMAGINE, FEELINGS MAY FOLLOW.

...there's nothing to feel and imagine.. there's only to chant mahamantra, the fruits will appear without any separate effort

 

5. AND PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT DO YOU CHANT THE MANTRA FOR, I.E MATERIAL PROSPERITY, A WISH, PEACE, SATISFACTION,

..mahamantra is meant to ask devotion to krsna

 

[humble]

Hare Krishna.

 

Guest who responded to GODSEED, when you state "there's no rules, everyone has his own way to chant. The important thing is concentration" you are in essence of course correct. But do not rebuff GODSEED for simply suggesting a time-honoured practice of meditation. I believe Srila Prabhupada honoured this method of meditation often, so why do you tell GODSEED he is wrong?

 

Do not enter into conflict, my friends. It is correct to say that there are no rules, and so GODSEED's reccomendation of meditation practice is perfectly valid and one that I find useful myself. Of course, if the individual finds another method more beneficial to him or herself, then the individual should pursue that method without doubt. If all of a man's friends enjoy watching soccer to relax, that in itself is of course no reason for the man himself to watch soccer to relax - but the fact that all of his friends enjoy it gives the man a suggestion that in fact it may be an enjoyable pastime, and well worth engaging in to see if it yields the same results for him. Similarly, if one is unsure of the exact practice to follow to reach the aim of chanting the maha mantra, let him follow advice from one who practices the mantra, and see if it yields similarly beneficial results for he - I myself reccomend Nate to practice GODSEED's reccomended practice.

 

Guest who responded to GODSEED, what you say is correct, but there is no need for conflict among any men, least of all those who realise the absolute glory of Lord Sri Krsna.

 

My humblest thanks for listening to this man's opinion.

[GODSEED]

AUM SHREE VISHNAVE NAMAH

THANKS, O SON OF THE HOLY, NOT FOR SUPPORTING ME, BUT ILLUMINING THE TRUTH, AND PROVING THE ENTERNAL'S SUPREMECY.

 

"NONE IS RIGHT, NONE IS WRONG,

ITS ONLY THE HOLY WHO IS BEYOND THE KING AND BEYOND THE PAWNS"

 

THANKS O' OF KID OF KRSNA.

 

HARI AUM TAT SAT

[jnani]

Namaste

 

The mantra can never be useless if we invest our sincerity in it. Also, do not confuse the individual mantra given by the guru or preceptor with the hare krsna mahamantra.

 

Srila Prabhupada taught that he himself could be considered the guru to the reader of his books and follower of his teachings. I consider him to be my guru in this way, as there is no Vaisnava guru anywhere near my location.

 

Chanting the mantra is very effective in a number of ways. It focuses the mind on the Lord. I have used it effectively in what may be considered an unusual way: every other day I run five miles for fitness and as a sort of personal discipline. At one time I was struggling because the weather here is very tropical and thus makes training difficult. I found that the mahamantra gave me actual physical strength when I was failing. Now I do not attempt to run without it.

 

The Lord and the blessed Swamiji can have very real power in our lives if we approach in a spirit of faith and humility. Please try with an open heart, and if you are unable then do seek a guru to guide you back to Godhead

[Guest guest]

I believe Srila Prabhupada honoured this method of meditation often, so why do you tell GODSEED he is wrong?

---because godseed had put some unnecessary and concocted ( BEFORE CHANTING, SEAT WITH CROSSED LEGS, IN A SILENT PLACE, CLOSE YOUR EYES, WATCH YOUR BREATH COME IN AND GO OUT, AND KEEP YOUR SPINAL-CORD UPRIGHT, NOT STIFF, JUST UPRIGHT.) rules, too much emphasis on them ... mahamantra is to be chanted freely. Essentially is asked humility and concentration.. nothing else. Mahamantra is Krsna, He does not depend from anything to show his mercy

 

 

all this is absolute necessary to avoid that someone, thinking that it is required some yoga skills, do not chant or stops to chant

 

so let us be careful to put rules and regulations

 

 

th

[Guest guest]

Chanting the mantra is very effective in a number of ways. It focuses the mind on the Lord

 

mahamantra actually IS the lord

 

Please try with an open heart, and if you are unable then do seek a guru to guide you back to Godhead

 

everyone has to follow the prabhupada's instruction to take shelter in a pure uttama guru... no one excluded

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada tells us in perfection of yoga to sit like that and cross our legs, and focus on the tip of our nose...

 

There are no hard and fast rules of chanting, but if you are not feeling the benefits, there is no harm in trying it the way Prabhupada recommended in his books...

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada tells us in perfection of yoga to sit like that and cross our legs, and focus on the tip of our nose...

 

 

bring the citation... i am not at 99% sure but this has not to do with mahamantra... especially for focusing on the tip of our nose

 

we have to focus on krsna and prabhupada very often chanted in chairs, couchs, walking and only a very few times in such yogic pose.... again no rules if not humbleness and concentration

 

if you like you can chant even upside down, but do not give it as a necessary rule, everyone has to be convinced to chant hare krishna.. even the ones who will never chant in some pseudo yogic posture

[humble]

Hare Krishna,

 

"mahamantra is to be chanted freely. Essentially is asked humility and concentration.. nothing else. Mahamantra is Krsna, He does not depend from anything to show his mercy"

 

For sure this is true, but it is my firm belief that GODSEED was simply offering a reccomendation, advice as it were on how to chant, not laying down regulations. As I stated before, full concentration on the maha mantra is a difficult thing to achieve at times and so certain techniques can be helpful in achieving this concentration. Particularly the advice towards chanting in a silent place is highly commendable for indivudal chanting.

 

"all this is absolute necessary to avoid that someone, thinking that it is required some yoga skills, do not chant or stops to chant"

 

This again is the truth, but please do remember the line that exists between imperative and advice.

 

My thanks.

[Guest guest]

This argument is so futile...

 

we are saying the SAME thing, just that whatever helps you concentrate while chanting is what you should do...

 

hence if focussing on the tip of your nose helps you concentrate, then do it!!

 

otherwise, keep trying other things till u find what suits your personal focus on krishna the best...

 

the main thing is not to sit their idly and stick to the same method if it isn't working...if we really want Krishna we should keep trying new ways of chanting till we acheive some form of success...

 

apparently everybody MUST go thru an intermediate stage before they can visualise Krishna anyway...that stage is when you chant, u're thinking about God, but not able to visualise his form...hence you are not causing offence, but there is a long way to go still....that is the stage that most devotees are at...it is trying to get past that that is difficult...i'm trying but not happening yet...i'll just keeping having a go at any ideas given by fellow devotees...

[Guest guest]

For sure this is true, but it is my firm belief that GODSEED was simply offering a reccomendation, advice as it were on how to chant, not laying down regulations.

...i feel necessary to correct these advices, our duty is to spread mahamantra as much as possible. If anyone does not accept mahamantra because someone says that some rule is required this is a great disgrace. So i think it is necessary to make clear that everyone can chant when and where he wants without any limitation.

 

As I stated before, full concentration on the maha mantra is a difficult thing to achieve at times and so certain techniques can be helpful in achieving this concentration.

...everyone has his way to be concentrated on mahamantra, someone will chant better walking, someone will chant better in yogic position. Someone will decide that he want only to chant informally without too much effort ... he has the right to do it, mahamantra itself will lead him gradually to pure chanting

 

This again is the truth, but please do remember the line that exists between imperative and advice.

..in that messages, aside the good advices for attentive chanting, there was also something excessive and not recommended by anyone autoritative

 

mahamantra is for everyone

[Guest guest]

apparently everybody MUST go thru an intermediate stage before they can visualise Krishna anyway...that stage is when you chant, u're thinking about God, but not able to visualise his form...

...all this visualizing stuff is not up to us... hare krsna is not a method to visualize krsna, hare krsna is krsna with nothing missing. So we have to concentrate on hearing mahamantra not thinking of images and waiting for some visualization. Krsna and mahamantra are the same transcendental person. Whem krsna will wants he will show his transendental infinite mercy revealing himself fully. There's not separate efforts, positions, behaviours, systems, tecniques to use if not chanting more as possible. The only remedy for not attentive and offensive chanting is..... chanting

 

 

[Guest guest]

If we want anything in life we must apply a bit of innovation to it...If u sit there chanting again and again and u're not feeling the benefits, it makes sense to adjust the way you chant...not doing anything about it is causing offence to the Lord anyway...what is the harm in trying something if it helps? Like i said it is from Prabhupada perfection of yoga...

 

U see of course it is up to Krishna, but Krishna will only respond if u take the effort to find him...If we are sitting there chanting sincerely but just denying that we need to try some techniques to help us, then its just pure laziness...Krishna will not show himself to someone who is lazy...All the available advice is there, Krishna arranges for us to come into contact with something that helps us in a particular way...every devotee has that experience...so it is our free will whether we take up that advice or not...

 

Anyway, my writing is not coming from no authority it is coming form the highest authority, Prabhupada, he says himself that there are three stages, and u can't force through any of the stages - and so what u say is true in a way...but its like saying oh 'if Krishna wants me to wake up early then it will naturally happen' NO!! U have to take the iniative sometimes, and decide for yourself, 'what am i doing that isn't helping my spiritual life' and for me when my chanting was not going well i asked myself 'wait a minute, have i even read Prabhupada's own advice on the subject of chanting...then i realised that although Prabhupada says there are no hard and fast rules, he tells us how to perfect our BHAKTI YOGA which is what we are trying to perform...so take the advice and if it helps great, if it doesn't at least u gave it a try, so u showed Krishna that u are sincerely trying to take steps to chant his name in a better way...so there is a combination between taking responsibility and just going with the flow...

[Guest guest]

If we are sitting there chanting sincerely but just denying that we need to try some techniques to help us, then its just pure laziness...

..sincerity and lazyness do not stay together, and no tecniques are required.. only attentive chanting. Everyone will find his own way to be attentive. You can have your way but it is not to make a rule

 

Krishna will not show himself to someone who is lazy...

...krsna's mercy is unconditionated, he can reveal himself freely to anyone he wants.

 

he says himself that there are three stages, and u can't force through any of the stages

...these three stages are about tecnique? some way to sit, to fix attention on the nose or something like that?

 

everyone can chant, do not put unnecessary rules, hare krishna is not exclusive

 

my point was on unnecessary rules, not on the fact that one has or has'nt to increase his attentiveness

[Guest guest]

Yes, we must be attentive...hence if we are not attentive we must change the way we are chanting...

[Guest guest]

...that is up to us and has nothing to do with yogic postures

[Guest guest]

....unless the yogic postures help you become more attentive while chanting...

[Guest guest]

First develope love of God. Read Bhagavad Gita As It Is, associate with devotees, partake of Prasadam, go to Sunday feast,see the dieties and chant the holy names. Also follow all the disiplines. Don't eat meat or eggs or onions or garlic, don't take intoxicants-caffiene,alcohol,drugs; no illicite sex and no gambling. It takes all of these activities to develope love of God. If you do these things the love of God will grow in you automatically and your chanting of the mantra will start to fill your heart with love. That is the purpose of the mantra, to develope love of God. Your motivation should not be for your own personal developement. Like trying to calm down or become more spiritual. Those are materialistic desires.

Sitting in particular postures in a quiet place, that is all hatha yoga. The purpose of, and final destination of, all yogas is Bhakti Yoga or love of God. Don't waste your valuable lifetime on the lower yogas. Take the rocketship to God.

Follow the disciplines. Become a disciple. Love of God will come. Your mantra will be a success. But it is a package deal. If you don't follow all the disciplines and guidance from Guru, you will not have success. Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

I wanted to add more to my package deal comments.

What Nate is looking for is what everyone is looking for. Something is missing in our lives. We can all feel a certain emptiness. We want to fill that void.

Nate says he is seeking the state of pure consciousness. If you seek that you will never find it! Shocking isn't it. What he is really seeking is fulfillment. He can find that if he changes his perspective. Seeking a certain state of mind will never fulfill anyone. Finding out what is missing and following the instructions of the one who knows what is missing and also knows how to fulfill it; that is the answer.

If you want to bake the perfect cake you seek out the instructions of a master baker. He will give you instructions on how to make the perfect cake. Lets say he gives you 10 instructions and 10 different ingredients to use. If you do everything he says you will make a perfect cake. Now if you leave out 8 instructions and 7 ingredients, you will not have a perfect cake. If you keep leaving things out,even if you do it thousands of times, you will never have the perfect cake.

As I said before, you must follow all the disciplines and all the instructions if you want fulfillment or love of God. We have a master baker and he has left all the instructions and ingredients we need. Follow them and you will have your perfect cake. Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

...unless the yogic postures help you become more attentive while chanting...

 

not for me and not for many people... this is the point, everyone has his way, this is why i reacted to the first message who seemed to propose the yogic posture as a rule.. not because i am against it

[Guest guest]

 

First develope love of God. Read Bhagavad Gita As It Is, associate with devotees, partake of Prasadam, go to Sunday feast,see the dieties and chant the holy names. Also follow all the disiplines. Don't eat meat or eggs or onions or garlic, don't take intoxicants-caffiene,alcohol,drugs; no illicite sex and no gambling. It takes all of these activities to develope love of God

---no.. love for god is Hare.. and hare is the first word in the mahamantra. All these activities are for helping to keep us in an atmosphere favorable for chanting.. but ultimately devotion comes only from mahamantra

 

If you do these things the love of God will grow in you automatically and your chanting of the mantra will start to fill your heart with love

---no... everything comes from mahamantra, not that mahamantra takes his effectiveness from other activities. Mahamantra is krishna and he can give krishna, the other activities are done also by people simply moral, vegetarian, ecologist and so on.. and they do not get love for god

 

That is the purpose of the mantra, to develope love of God.

---mahamantra IS the love for god, mahamantra IS god.. not a system to getting it

 

Your motivation should not be for your own personal developement. Like trying to calm down or become more spiritual. Those are materialistic desires.

---motivations ar not important, if we do not chant we cannot develope spiritual desires, because it is mahamantra that make us develope spirituality. So before chanting, is not possible to be pure, and if we are not pure our motivations for chanting are not pure. So there's not to bother.. we have only to chant

 

But it is a package deal. If you don't follow all the disciplines and guidance from Guru, you will not have success.

---wrong, mahamantra is god and everything is contained in it.... it can be said the opposite: "if you chant seriously and sincerely everything naturally follows, the guru and the purification"

[Guest guest]

As I said before, you must follow all the disciplines and all the instructions if you want fulfillment or love of God. We have a master baker and he has left all the instructions and ingredients we need. Follow them and you will have your perfect cake.

 

 

this is very dangerous because we have the duty to give mahamantra to everyone

 

if someone does not take the chanting because we have given the information or the impression that mahamantra can be chanted only if we follow some rule it is a great sin and a great offence to mahamantra

 

first let all chant hare krishna.. then many will want to go more deeper with this chanting and they will find the guru who will give some rules and regulations to have a better concentration on mahamantra (this is essentially what regulative principles are for)