Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 i'm trying to convince someone not in kc to not have an abortion... what do u suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 ... just tell this person that inside or outside, the baby suffer. Moreover, the baby is at this stage in total confusion, it means he suffer without understanding anything, that in a sense, is comparable to suffering in hell. Also you can tell her that she will suffer a lot after doing that, from terrible depressions and feeling of intense guilt, and that then she won't be able to come back in the past. Maybe you can also show her some persons who are/were in the same kind of difficult situation than she is now, and who lead a happy life now. Something that kind of inspire her. Also pray a lot to God to make her realize what she is about to do, and give her a lot of prasad, invite her for exemple (don't talk about prasad, give her some !!) Maybe her heart will help her see things clearly. When you have done all that, if she still want to abort, you will have done your best, so no guilt. I pray for your success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruzWayne Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Why do you want to convince a person that is not in KC about taking a decision regarding abortion? If the person doesn't want to become KC then it will mean that the person is entangled in Material Consciousness. So I'm telling you this: First of all you tell to the pregnant woman that she must chant the maha-mantra through some kirtan in a Hare Krishna temple and then, right there, while chanting among the Krishna devotees she will receive Krishna's solution to her problem through her heart where Vishnu will talk to her. Hare Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humble Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Or you could let her make her own decision. Yes, it is the duty of a Krishna Conscious person to spread the consciousness to others, but dogged indoctrination attempts are no way to show the love of Krsna... this is not the way, my friends. Offer your opinion to this woman, but do so not on the grounds of a faith she does not share... this is illogical in the extreme and hurtful to this woman who I assume is your friend... if she is not then what right do you have to say these things to her anyway. BruzWayne, your blind intolerance and ill-informed arrogant opinions have dogged this forum for a while now, but this tops it: "you tell to the pregnant woman that she MUST chant" - this is wrong! Do not order others to chant the Lord's names against their will... in what way is this possibly spreading the love of Krsna to all? This is spreading a falsehood... offer her some literature if you will, and only then if she will willingly and eagerly accept it. And BruzWayne, do not make such arrogant assumptions as to guarantee that this poor woman will receive Krsna's solution... you cannot guarantee this and in this age of kali yuga, when good and devoted men and women strive to achieve contact with the Lord and fall short, how can you tell this non-devotee categorically that she will receive Krsna's solution? And Sunanda, surely it is not right to try and 'con' this woman into participating in this faith by not explaining the prasada you offer to her? And what good is no guilt on your own conscience if the woman is left for the worse? This reeks to me of selfish concern, and not compassion that should live at the heart of Krsna Consciousness. You, sirs, are spreading a falsehood, and I urge you most strongly to reconsider your faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Or you could let her make her own decision. --of course she will do it.. but knowing that there's an innocent baby who will be killed i think that it is the duty of everyone to try to save him Yes, it is the duty of a Krishna Conscious person to spread the consciousness to others, but dogged indoctrination attempts are no way to show the love of Krsna... this is not the way, my friends. ---to spread krsna consciousness and the connected values is not a dogged indoctrination.. or, we have to stop to be fanatics, if we are, not to desire to give the mahamantra to others And Sunanda, surely it is not right to try and 'con' this woman into participating in this faith by not explaining the prasada you offer to her? ---absolutely no problem... there is not possible to find anything bad in giving some delicious food offered to krsna to someone You, sirs, are spreading a falsehood, and I urge you most strongly to reconsider your faith. ---as we have accepted it carefully.. please tells us sufficient explanations on the necessity to reconsiderate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humble Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 My point indeed is to stop being fanatics, as the responses to this dilemma have shown an increasing number of devotees to be... fanaticism hinders the spreading of the mahamantra. And I wholeheartedly believe it is immoral to not inform the woman of the principles of prasadam if one is to feed it to her... this does not further the spreading of KC and is a form of demonic trickery in essence. Please, do not be fanatics. Be peaceful, helpful, and loving to all - yes to the unborn baby in the womb, but respect the woman's opinion... love Krsna, and love everything under him. Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 My point indeed is to stop being fanatics ...so discriminate between fanatic and non fanatic advices... you cannot stop any kind of spiritual communication because there's the possibility to have some fanaticism. The antifanatic can be a fanatic too. And I wholeheartedly believe it is immoral to not inform the woman of the principles of prasadam if one is to feed it to her ...i simply do not understand why... it is good food and that's enough. Mahamantra is spread mainly going in the streets and singing hare krishna while the listeners think that it is a common song or some kind of tribal or sectarian rite this does not further the spreading of KC and is a form of demonic trickery in essence. ...this is not demonstrated by any scripture or logic... giving krsna prasadam cannot be demonic.. prasadam is krsna and krsna is not a demon Please, do not be fanatics. ..you too yes to the unborn baby in the womb, but respect the woman's opinion... ..the opinion of a woman who wants to kill a baby is not at all respectable... we have to try to change it gently.. but it is a fact love Krsna, and love everything under him. ..also the baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humble Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Yes, love the baby too, but an unwanted baby being born will hurt both the baby and the mother, and possibly external parties also. This is not a good thing. My point against fanaticism in particular was BruzWayne telling the woman she MUST chant, and that she WILL receive advice from Krsna. This is not accurate, possibly in the long term she WILL receive advice from Krsna, but there is very little guarantee it will happen in the maximum 9 month time span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Yes, love the baby too, but an unwanted baby being born will hurt both the baby and the mother, and possibly external parties also. This is not a good thing. --let the child take birth and he will decide if he's a problem for he society.. it is not possible to find something good in babies killing My point against fanaticism in particular was BruzWayne telling the woman she MUST chant, and that she WILL receive advice from Krsna --it is a beautiful advice.. if it is possible it would be a great thing, both mum and the son will go back to godhead in this life or another This is not accurate, possibly in the long term she WILL receive advice from Krsna, but there is very little guarantee it will happen in the maximum 9 month time span. --krsna is omnipotent... and there's no reason to avoid to let the people chant hare krishna even if they are strict to behave in an immoral way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humble Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Do not tell one 'must', inform one of the option and encourage. Never order - the imperative scares, the suggestion entices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 obviously, the must thing is wrong... but offering prasadam is fine... no need to tell her its been offered to krsna...it's food...when i used to eat meat, i wouldn't offer it to others, telling them that hey remember this lamb has been slaughtered... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 one MUST chant hare krishna.. but being us in the process, it is best to be gentle and not hypochrite and fanatics but the fact that we MUST CHANT HARE KRISHNA is undeniable, so if i can put in another person the sense of real and urgent duty in chanting hare krishna it is allright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humble Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 That is a good point, and I admit I had not thought of it in that light... nonetheless, I find the manner in which it was initially suggested to be offensive... a kind of "let's try to enlighten her without her realising" tactic, if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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