Brahma is Christ

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

 

You are really giving an incorrect advise. Initiation is not a normal material ceremony and means full surrender to the Spiritual Master; it is the most serious thing, additionally because our relation with Spiritual Master is eternal. If we go with the conception of treating Spiritual Master as a means to attain God then we commit offenses because Spiritual Master is directly the representative of God and non-different from Him. If i go and search a Spiritual Master i will most likely end up with a wrong one, because i am imperfect and will most likely be attracted by an imperfect person not knowing who is a pure devotee. When we require a Spiritual Master, are ready for it and pray to sincerely and fervently God for attaining His pure love then He sends a Spiritual Master; not the other way round.

 

We should really read this article by Srila BhaktiSiddhanta Saraswati very carefully:

http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/bmgs/acaryas/bhaktisiddhanta/writings/initiation.htm

 

 

--i understand that you have concocted your own worshiping system..

 

 

 

How is praying to Lord an incorrect worshipping system? Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has Himself said that Krishna has millions of Names in whom He has invested His transcendental energies. Even otherwise if he is following Jesus Christ, then Jesus is his Spiritual Master (shiksha-guru). Okay don't get started about diksha-guru; i have already said about that above that when the time comes God will come as Spiritual Master.

[Guest guest]

NO, I WILL PRAY FOR THE FIRST IF IT IS HIS WILL, BUT TO WHATEVER CHURCH OR RELIGION THAT PERSON BELONGS

--if you see vaishnavism as sectarian, this is the sign that you are not in contact with god

 

HE KNOWS THAT I HAVE MORE URGENT NEEDS THAN THE KIND OF GURU YOU SPEAK OF.

--krsna recommends it in bhagavad gita:

Chapter 4. Transcendental Knowledge

 

TEXT 34

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

 

TRANSLATION

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.

..

 

so if you are a religious person you cannot avoid this step

---

 

I DO NOT KNOW FROM WHICH VERSE IN THE GITA YOU STATE THAT IT IS A NECESITY (SORRY FOR MIS-SPELLING) TO DO IT EXACTLY IN THAT WAY

---gita says that you have to follow a spiritual master who sees god. Now spiritual masters of this kind recommend to chant hare krsna mahamantra. But i understand that you do not want to learn anything by anyone

 

SO, IF THERE IS A VOICE IN MY HEAD, WHICH WAS ALOT CLEARER IN CHILDHOOD, THAT I KNOW IS GOD AND WHO ALWAYS TELLS THE TRUTH AND PREDICTS THE FUTURE AND FULFILLS MY PRAYERS....

--if you are against or neglecting guru parampara and chanting hare krsna it is manifest that it is your fantasy

 

AND WHAT IF THE MASTER DIES BEFORE THE STUDENT?

--there's no shortage of pure spiritual masters...

 

MY CALLING ON EARTH IN NOT ORDINARY.

--do not try to cheat us, if you wer a saint or avatar your behaviour were very different

 

BECAUSE YOU JUDGE ME AND THINK YOU KNOW HOW CLOSE I AM TOO GOD SIMPLY FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE LETTER OF YOUR LAW

--so wich law of god are you following? your law? it is maya, because even sri krsna when he comes on the earth accepts a spiritual master to show the example to the humans

 

HOW CAN I EVER KNOW A TEACHER IS PURE?

--pray krsna to be blessed by the mercy of a pure devotee of the lord. if you want to cheat Him and ourselves saying that you do not need any master, Krsna will not send you anyone if not the illusion to be able to realize god by yourself

 

BUT THE MORE SUBTLE POINTS AND IMPORTANT POINTS OF THE LAW -GRACE, LOVE, COMPASSION, WERE LEFT OUT.

--do you think that spiritual masters are only this kind of people? who is without love, grace and compassion is a rascal, not a master

 

AND I STUDY AS WELL GOD FROM MANY RELIGIONS

---that's right... so start studying very well krsna consciousness under a spiritual master, or the fact that you study all religions is a lie

 

[Guest guest]

Initiation is not a normal material ceremony and means full surrender to the Spiritual Master

--i completely agree, where i have said the opposite?

 

If we go with the conception of treating Spiritual Master as a means to attain God then we commit offenses because Spiritual Master is directly the representative of God and non-different from Him

–––read bhagavad gita: "ust try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master..".. the word "by" means that the spiritual master is a "medium". But you are right that spiritual master is also to be considered non different by god. So both positions are good and harmonic. I do not understand where you see that i do not agree with your right vision..

 

When we require a Spiritual Master, are ready for it and pray to sincerely and fervently God for attaining His pure love then He sends a Spiritual Master

---that's searching for a spiritual master.. and it is also advisable to pray krsna to send to us a pure teacher, otherwise he did not have put the verse in the gita about approaching a master

 

How is praying to Lord an incorrect worshipping system?

--our friend vishnu simply believes to be a special person, a saint and avatar.. so he does not accept any guidance..

 

when the time comes God will come as Spiritual Master.

--yes.. when we have the urgent desire to meet a pure devotee to be given instructions and to be corrected

[vishnu]

I dont see vaishnavism as sectarian. you do. you make it different from other paths. like many religions you say:only i have the truth.

When what matters to God is if you fulfill your calling, if you have a general good heart-according to His standards- and not if you sing a specific song daily.

 

Good krishna recommends it, and if i meet such a person, and i think i have already met many persons who have aided me and taught me, i will accept with all the eager in my heart for my Abba.

 

No, you think that is what spiritual masters do, and thus, anyone who acts in a different way, or has a different religion, although its the same god, is false for you.

but not for God. I know God loves my pastor.

why? because he speaks with God. how do i know this? because when i pray that the pastor may say or do things in church, then it happens. because i prayed to god to tell him things, and God does that, because God loves me.

 

I dont neglect or am against parampara or chanting. i chant , but other songs with the same effect.

 

hahaha, you might have insulted me a month ago, but now i know you are a bug and only gods opinion about me matters.

you are a genuine fool if you actually believe you are capable of seeing holiness or evilness.

i assure you when you get to heaven you will find many people you loathed are saints for God, because they didnt show their good deeds, and many you thought of as great because of their deeds, will be low by God because they did those deeds so you would think highly of them. you have absolutely no clue as to how much im busy searching out God, serving Him and my feloow man, and neither do you know a thing about my problems which prevent me from searching him. but go ahead judge all you want, just know that when you point a finger God points back at you.

if i were an avatar. yeah the pharisees in jesus age thought they were highly exalted with God. they said too it was wrong behaviour when he treated them and insulted them WAY more than i will ever insult you here on this forum.

(cua i dont wanna insult anyone anyway you see i try to be friendly to friend and foe, as krishna and jesus command, unlike others here)

 

The law i follow? Love, compassion, nonjudgement, being friendly to all, searching the Lord out.

 

I didnt say i needed no master. I said I trust God in his guidance and if its his will-i will pray-than it will happen and i will accept with all eagerness

 

No, spiritual masters are not that kind of people. point is, your not God, and you might think someone who is like that, is a spiritual master because of deceitful behaviour and acting all wise when he has an evil, selfish heart.

 

Ok, ill try.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

 

 

Initiation is not a normal material ceremony and means full surrender to the Spiritual Master

--i completely agree, where i have said the opposite?

 

 

 

You have advised to take initiation when he doesn't know who is a Spiritual Master, what is meant by accepting a Spiritual Master, what means surrendering to him and how to find a Spiritual Master. This unneccessary overhaste in such matters is very dangerous.

 

 

How is praying to Lord an incorrect worshipping system?

--our friend vishnu simply believes to be a special person, a saint and avatar.. so he does not accept any guidance..

 

 

 

He has said already that he reads both Bible and Bhagavad-Gita and is trying to find the Truth. He has made some strange-sounding statements, but why jump to opposite conclusions.

[Guest guest]

I dont see vaishnavism as sectarian. you do. you make it different from other paths. like many religions you say:only i have the truth.

--that's not the point.. the point is that you are not practising anything, you are not following any path, you have no master so everything you say is a fantasy so it have no inportance. Before stating if there's only one way or thousands, and if all thousand ways are all equal.. practice something with accuracy and faith then we'll have a common ground for communicating

 

if you have a general good heart-according to His standards- and not if you sing a specific song daily.

--who as a good heart is not against chanting the holy name of the lord (if you say "sing" it is manifest that you are not informed about what you are attempting to criticize)

 

anyone who acts in a different way, or has a different religion, although its the same god, is false for you.

--i do not see you following any religion or acting for knowing god in any way.. so there's not this problem of intolerance with you. To be against your religion you need to follow a religion

 

hahaha, you might have insulted me a month ago

--you are not really in contact with god.. if you were you'd have prophetic powers and the power to read the mind of the people.. i never known you before yesterday. you are illusioned, you need a master and to follow a true path.

 

if i were an avatar. yeah the pharisees in jesus age thought they were highly exalted with God. they said too it was wrong behaviour when he treated them and insulted them WAY more than i will ever insult you here on this forum.

--so i have to understand that you are like jesus and i, like the pharisees, am not recognizing you?

 

The law i follow? Love, compassion, nonjudgement, being friendly to all, searching the Lord out.

--having not followed any basic spiritual school you do not know what's love and compassion. Non judgement is not your quality because you are constantly criticizing the vedic paths, devotees and krsna

 

I didnt say i needed no master. I said I trust God in his guidance and if its his will-i will pray-than it will happen and i will accept with all eagerness

--so show to god how are you eager to receive this mercy following what past masters have left to us.. Study carefully krsna consciousness and chant regularly hare krsna mahamantra

 

 

[Guest guest]

You have advised to take initiation when he doesn't know who is a Spiritual Master, what is meant by accepting a Spiritual Master, what means surrendering to him and how to find a Spiritual Master.

--he's in this forum acting as a great scholar bringing out views and theories about various religious charachters and spiritual paths. So he has the duty to be informed before speaking. or simply he have to ask informations before taking a position

 

He has said already that he reads both Bible and Bhagavad-Gita

--so he needs to read again

[vishnu]

1.You dont know what im practising all day long and how i am searching out God and acting as he wishes me to do all day long, and im not Gonna tell you, because Jesus forbade to do your good deeds to get the honor of people.

I did not say all ways are equal.

I have faith. Thats why many of my prayers, which are asking God for things which i always get.

2.For the 1000th time, I AM NOT AGAINST SINGING HARE KRISHNA MANTRA! its just your way , not mine.

I dont criticise it, and if i ever should have a sleepover with you, you might wake me up at night to start praising together, whether that means reading christian psalms or hare krishna mantra!

3.to know my religion you have to know me. but the basics of my religion you can understand are all clearly written out in the jewish man-NDE. thats right the NDE in which the man saw that the Hare Krishna who sang all day was CLOSEST to God because he had greatest love for God. So how could i ever be against that!

4.I was in contact with God and I could do that and more as a child. ive told once on this forum what happened with me in one sentence and with what kind of person i live under one roof, and i got mocked.

5.That you dont recognise me for who I am is certain.

But Im surely not the only one you dont recognise for who he is. So, until you too have the power to read minds thru Gods Spirit, refrain from judgement.

6.Where do I criticise Krishna????

you are criticising me and think you have the only right path. The light of God is more than singing his holy name-that is one way. There are many forms of Yoga.

7.I show to God all they long I wish to follow Him.

I will study.

 

[Guest guest]

" The light of God is more than singing his holy name-that is one way. "

 

you definitely have no consciousness and i do not understand what you are doing in a gaudya vaishnava's site if you do not appreciate and you repeatedly blaspheme this path..

 

god is not different by his name, the name of god is god, so chanting and meditating on the name of god means to be in presence of god, so there's nothing more than god's presence

 

why have you come in a forum named "hare krishna"?

 

if you do not want to learn anything.. please leave and practice your fantasies elsewhere.. you have no knowledge, from this i understand that you are not in contact with god, but you are simply a common human with the need of an ordinary process of learning and practicing

 

 

"I will study."

 

yes... this is a specialistic forum, we want to talk of specialistic subjects.. so study these subjects and then come back to ask and discuss.. if you go on like you are doing now, you are showing no seriousness

 

[vishnu]

for the 1001th time, I appreciate chanting hare krishna.

I just say that that is not all you should do and there are other ways to God. If you chant all day but dont give a .... about the least of his brethren, then don't think god will speak well of you.

 

no, im not a common man. but im also not a hindi who was raised with a loving mom in a loving house with a loving easy to handle religion.

i have something you dont know. its called problems.

Whom for Gods sake i have to and will conquer and live thru.

 

 

 

" you are showing no seriousness"

But god knows i am serious, just like he knows i love him.

[Guest guest]

u say that u appreciate chanting hare krishna maha mantra, but u don't seem to be. First of all do u chant? If u do so, pls do it with love towards him. Concentrating only on him. Engage ur senses to feel him. Its devotional nectare, u wont relish until u trust in him fully.

 

Its obvious that if a son calls out for help from his father, father will surely be happy that the son remembers him atleast now and wants to be with him and Lord will grant him mukti(liberation).

 

u said that u have problems.

i don't know, what sort of problems u have in life.

don't worry, its not only u who have problems. each and every living entity in this world have the same.

 

Have u ever thought of the cause of all these problems.

we are the cause of our own miseries.our past karma is the cause.

To come out of these problems, the simple and easy way is to chant Lord Krishna's names. I will give u an example - A 3yrs old child will be asked to read and write english alphabets A - Z by the childs parents. Sometimes the child do it with out questioning back, why? but sometimes its opposite to it. Child's parents know what is good for it to do at what age. only if the child learns alphabets now, which is the foundation, child can have a good furture.

 

whether the child likes it or not it will learn alphabets at the age of 3. Later when it grows up to be a doctor or be it in any profession, at that age it will realize what his parents have done is good at that age.

 

same goes with u, u are just a kid in front of Lord krishna, but he is quite different he will not punish u if don't chant. He will leave the life to ur hand to enjoy miseries and happiness unto u alone. so that u will be the decider on this. At this time the material energy (Maya) will entangle to from all the sides and make u, ur own enjoyer and sufferer according to ur karma.

 

Now, u cant blame the Lord for ur sufferings. Instead atleast now try and understand Lord, and that can happen ONLY BY LOVE TOWARDS HIM

 

[Guest guest]

GOD IS ONE KRISHAN/ALLA/JESUS ALL ARE ONE.PEOPLE WOKSHIP THEM IN DIFFERENT FORM THAT IT.

 

IF A MAN WITH FULL FAITH WORKSHIP GOD NO MATTER HE IS ALLAH

JESUS OR KRISHNA HIS WISH WILL BE FULLFILLED . ALL RELIGION TAKES US TO SAME PATH.

 

MAN LOVE VARIETY SO HE CREATED DIFFERENT RELIGION THATS ALL

[Guest guest]

The Vedas comes from God directly.

 

The Bible and Koran are man made.

 

Only worship the only proven and seen God, Lord Krishna and not anyone else. As Lord Krishna says in the Gita, he is the only God and only he should be worshipped.

[Joyan]

Krsna teaches us that all prophets from all religions are all aspect of the same one god, though they lived at different times in history and in different locations on the globe.

[Guest guest]

You said that Jesus Christ can not be proven to exist and did not; well, to remain objective on the subject one must recognize that if He can not be proven to have existed than niether can He be proven to have not existed. To function outside that reasoning puts quite a lack of credibility on a conclusion duriving from a spiritual prefernece.

I'll not toss arguments around, for we all will beleive acording to the prompting of our concience. But, and that is a very important but, many spiritual promptings to many people are bound to originate with the enimies of eternal life. If there is a God,(and there most certainly is), His glory would be the eternal life of those He created. And if His creation has turned from Him (as it did long ago, see Genisis or Moses-LDS) then One must be sent from God to pay a price for the creation; such price the created beings could hardly pay in the necissary blood if they reincarnated a million times...

they are tainted. Blood was not His only burden, but also the grief and guilt that comes with knowledge of wrong doing, not His own wrong but man's and ours before it happened. If that is hard to swallow, consider the laws.

God created "cause and effect", so from the first cause He must have the ability to know the resulting effects infinately as each produces it's own sets of causes and effects; and ultamately knowing all possible outcomes of each choice or direction made by man untill time is ended.

Unlike my fellow christians I leave it open that a biblical point of view does not exclude the possability of man living here on earth many times, however under circumstances that I think are not expedient for our understanding and therefore left out of the presently reveled scriptures. If man knew that this was not his only mortal life it leaves much room for laziness and wickedness, especially when man is often carnal and selfish in relation to the Almighty,(thinking He is not at hand).

Reincarnation is most likely for purposes involved with eternal progression-see LDS. Earthly reincarnation, I think, is a knowledge very dangerous to any soal not sicerely comitted to the princibles taught by Jesus Christ. There are many enimies to our soals, and we in our natural state are the most foolish of all of them.

If we had all the knowledge of the heavens then we could say what was created by man or God. Many things made by man were set by God or by using what God has made (a free constitution-regardless of how man's descendants have destroid it-, medicines, and of course many bad things have been done with what God has given...free agency has produced greivsome things in the sight of God). What has on occation happened as a result of christianity (the inquisition) can scarcily be grounds for claiming the demonism of a creed but rather the folly of mankind, who are at this point in time extremely far from being gods.

As for me, I struggle as all do to live righteously, but with the atonement and a loving God I do pray to enter the eternal home of His loved children.

It's been nice sharing with you. your's truely,

Cameron.

P.S. "All a man's ways seem right to him." from the Psalms.

[Guest guest]

I agree with you that mixed religion is confused babel, to say the least. After all, "politically correct" is just another way of saying "I'm impressionable,I'm a good dog." right? Some times feeling must be hurt.

At the same time,it is my opinion that many "wise men"

not beleiving in Jesus is in no wise evidence for you or another not beleiving in Him.

And for the record modern science has uncovered huge gaps in theories developed by 19th century science. For example the absence of savatiouse glands to weather proof the hair on mamoths.With out them the animal would die in the conditions it was previously though to live in. To the 19th century scientist long hair and the animal being frozen meant it lived in ice, but sence they have repeadedly been dicovered frozen instantly with food in their mouths the evidence shows that they died by ice rather than live in it. Not directly conected with scripture one would think, but it disprooves popular and "politically uptodate" beliefs. I prepose the idea that the ice wich killed them was a result of what ever happened in a time we will call "Noah's Flood".

I know of more such arguments but only give the one now. It is a world of mysteries, do not get to comfertable.

sincerely,

Cameron,

[Guest guest]

If He is nothing to you, you shall be treated as nothing to Him.

This is your formal warning. He gives only two options to all who have heard of Him.

If our advanced tecknowledgy were to die, in two thousand years would you say the moon landing was a fable?

You say I cannot proove Him; I say you cannot proove otherwise. Both statements are true. But in a short time He will proove Himself to you, though you may regret it.

Cameron.

[Guest guest]

I may have been mislead by some coments of yours early on the site,perhaps I missed sarcasm if it were present.

Keep on keepin' on. I will remember you in prayer.

Cameron.

[Guest guest]

Mister, you are mistaken. Many are they who have seen the God of the Bible. Selective acceptance of accounts is not pruductive to validating a conclution.

Christ said, "if you have seen me you have seen the father". Just think of those who have seen Jesus.

Furthermore; if I were to tell you that I have seen God and that He is the God of the Bible, then you were to conclude that I am either crazy or lying, that would be dismissing information relivent to the truth based on your spiritual prefernece.

Know you say "it's a hypothedical quetion".... but wait; is it hypothedical? You beleive what you will.

[krist]

how sweet what you say. but the reality is jesus is not a real person. the christ is a idea, no more no less.

these arguments of yours are pathetic and certialy ill inspired by your imagination and your parroting of your dogma guides and your wild scriptures.

your jesus is not a litteral person. if he is he was a hindu and vishnava. nota jew or hebrew or what ever manmade faith that is not god inspired. real religion is not hell fire and brimstone if you leave that out of your religion it pointless and blaphemy according to your faith. blind leading hte blind. i am sure your a good guy but your christina faith is just a ideology not a religion or a reality.

[krist]

he would not judge a good person for not believing in him because the whole of the christian faith has long been corrupt. one thing is for certian he was not the the supreme god. the end. jesus in not krishna. krishna is god nad jesus if real was his follower and worshiped krishna not your biblical jehovvaaaa. the god of the bible is a genocidal manic not a true god.

[krist]

the god of the bible was a king not a god. and the pagan myths of the faiiths in that area reflect the same god a mean psychopath. all the middle eastern gods were just crazy. why would nayone with a any degree of sanity follow the bible god?

[Guest guest]

Please under no circumstances deride anyone elses faith, each person has been brought up under certain circumstances and are doing there best in the way they know how. Anyway KRSNA says to fix your mind on him without wavering and you waver from it to speak ill of someone else? WHY?? Didn't he say HE is the only doer? Then who are you speaking ill of when you deride others?

 

There is definitely some truth to the fact that the Christian bible has suffered tampering and as a result you have what some call "Churchianity" instead of Christianity. The orginal gospels have recently been rediscovered in Essene Monasteries, they paint an even more beautiful and compassionate picture of Christ. Interesting to note that Jesus led the life of a Brahmin(homeless, living on the kindness of others etc), and instructed his disciples to do the same which is quite different from the usual life led by the Jewish priests at that time. The spirit of his teachings have inspired BILLIONS of people. If he were not real there would not be that kind of force behind an ordinary story. It would be like saying in two thousand years half the world would be JEDI.

 

Anyway once more, do not dissipate your mental energies in destructive thoughts. In the words of Shankara

 

"In you, in me and everywhere there is but the one Vishnu. Mistakenly viewing me with a sense of difference you are ill disposed toward me. Try to see in all beings only the Vishnu who is your own self. Give up your false and egoitic sense of separateness from other beings. Cultivate a sense of Kinship, unity and oneness with all."

 

 

[Guest guest]

As before, if you remember two thousand years ago or have an existing memory of the heavens you may tell me if Jesus Christ is or is not real. But what I beleive does not come from blind faith; I asked many questions, and showed much disbeleif to the signs and answers given to me by those spirits wich minister to us... untill certain events happend.

You are right about the long curuption of christianity, my church(LDS) comonly refers to it as "The apostacy" where many of the teachings of Christ were lost and the result was Catholism(catholic church), wich has many scriptural problems such as calling a man "father"(a title only for God), praying to angels wich was told us not to do, and in revelation chptr 17 we read of "Babylon the Harlot" or the "abominable church"; this church cloths it's self in scarlet and purple, wears gold and pearls, and it's home is on seven hills. Rome is "The City of Seven Hills" in reality; and wearing the above things is seen throughout the catholic church.

But, I do not beleive any thing told me by people of any christian chuch...even my own. Because people can see thing differntly I study scripture my self, and it is not always plain speeking. I will pray and ponder using the guidance of the spirit and cross referance with not only scripture but any thing I can find on a subject. Discernment is crucial.

This is how I find what "I beleive" to be true; from premortal existance, to a spirit for all things, to life's problems and the end of the age. I beleive in Almighty God,One. I have no name for Him eccept Father and Lord...you have another name for Him that comes from a language I nor My ancestors know.

The biggest difference is I also beleive in His Chosen Son who was a blood atonement for my wrongs. I do not tell you that you're religion is wrong, I think there are spiritual knowledges that no one beleif system may ever on this Earth see or understand. So by that same reason I know that my own church does not know every thing.

So relax your grip on your own "dogma" and know That God who is beyond your understanding, and so is His plan.

Sincerely,

Cameron.

[Guest guest]

In the Bible it's self we find that Christ came to change the beleifs and ways of the jews. You are right that He is not a jew, that would be difining His beleif as the very thing He came to change.

with love,

Cameron.