Guest guest Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 Haribol, I have nothing else to add to this matter other than that this thread is a perfect example of Kali Yuga in full effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 To continue, One owes to himself to find an enlghtened Guru to take him on the path to ultimately be one with the Bhraman or beyond. That is beyond Heaven or Creation in this Yuga. You have to judge your own Guru before accepting Him. Does He practice what he preaches? He has to have the discipline to be able to practice where he avoids all forms of forces that can emanate from any object of Maya ... celebacy, renunciate eye contact of such distractions, renunciate the palate, ... bereft of all possesion except the single Safron piece of clothing on their body, etc. Only then He can teach you the true detachment and surrender of fruits, so very dear to Lord Krishna and His teaching to Arjun in the Sri Bhagvad Gita, i.e. from a practiced meaning of Tyag of all Earthly senses ("Indreeo's"). One should know when they debate who to pray, that there is no competition here. The Lord if he was not beyond all this He would be saddened to see us saying "He" is greater than your ... no my Lord is greater than your Lord ... There is no such contest when He is one and the same and He is in FACT everything and He is Krishna as well as He is Lord Swaminarayan ... who is to say or stand in judgement that Sri Nath Narayan Krishna is not Sri Purno Purshotam Bhagvan Lord Swaminarayan in His ultimate form and the other way? I can not judge that and hey ... He is my Lord either way. I can pray to one form that my Guru tells me and that suffices but my Guru also praises the glory of Him in His other forms too ... so I can sing the glory of the Lord in all the forms and still follow my teachings of Lord Swaminarayan. My Guru's greatness ("listen" and pay attention to the words)is, in that He did "Krishna Aarpan" to the Lord, of His mind, body, intelect ("deh") from His earliest age. We worship Lord Swaminarayan ... but notice we have Sri Radhe Krishna's Murtis in the temples ... We have Sri Sita Ram and Sri Hanuman murti in our temple ... we have Sri Ganesh and Sri Shiv Sankar Parvati Mata's murti in our same temple ... we observe all ... Janmastmi ... Ram Navmi ... Shivratri ... Nom ... Ekadashi ... So, why the debate? Find a true Guru and follow Him and His teachings ... You can never, never, get there without a Guru. Even God seeks out a true Guru, whenever His human incarnation takes place. You will only be able to reach that level of understanding and knowledge emanating and acculating from each Karma traverse in each life ... recognize this and come to know a Guru of your "Karma Sthan" in this life, and when you choose, be knowing that He will only take you on the right path and none other ... you will never hear Him contesting any incarnation or form of the Lord ever, as He knows that the Lord is All and All. He will even espause the need and rightful existence of the lowliest maggot and its rights to life in this universe. So, who are we, who have to learn so much, to debate and contest, and even mistakenly judge the Lord in any of His Glorious presences against His other presences? It all comes down to FIND a true Guru and follow Him, but do not berate or derate Gurus of others or the various Karma Levels that draw others to their natural levels of their followings. After all He is the same Lord and it would displease Him if He was not beyond. One other thought for all, The Lord can not be pleased if you are not even capable of pleasing or respecting your parents. Just like Shiv Bhagvan's devotee Narsi Mehta so pleased Sri Nath Narayan Shiv Bhagvan, that He himself took him to Sri Krishna and whose devotee Narsi Mehta became. So the bit about respecting your parents ... it is so petty and trivial in many people's minds that they do not realize that, that is the first level they have to transcend as that please the Lord no end! No end! So, and there are all these levels to transcend ... so respect all and that pleases Sri Nath Narayan in all His glorious presences and forms no end! No end!!! But follow your Guru whoever you choose. Also remember one is not a Brahmin by birth, but one is a Brahmin by Karma. So, even Brahmins, who fall in this birth may not be Brahmins in their next. Lord Swaminarayan came amongst us at a time when Brahmins even had meat hanging in their homes and were eating meat. Widows were becoming Satis on the funeral pyres of their husbands ... and many such low levels had been reached in everybody's lives. He came to eradicate such depravities. One should, atleast out of academic curiosity, study how He did this, and why it is such a part of our glorious Hindu Sanatan Dharma and heritage. Also, there is an exceptional Imax movie that has gained an exceptional acclaim that one should watch ... called Mystic India. To all my fellow souls of the same great ParmAtma ... my solemn Jay SwamiNarayan and Jay Sri Krishna ... let us all generate good vibes and not discordant vibes ... we are all the same in the beginning, together and in the end ... The Lord would beam with pleasure at us as we all sing together His praises in all His Glorious, Glorious, forms and TRUST that all are Him. Follow a true Guru, in any case. Krishanchandra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 PS: Forgot to mention ... Lord Swaminrayan was born in Ayodhia. That is Pavitra enough Bhumi for me and if one would just contemplate that the atoms of the Bhumi are blessed by Lord Sri Rama and the same atoms became food and nourished Lord Swaminarayan ... at least at our basic Earthly thought level ... We should all rejoice that we are all Bharat Vaancees. Krishan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 Dear Satsangi, It is commendable to go to defense of our Lord. However, our Lord Swaminarayan does not require defending. He is up and above all that. So this is also NOT to embarass you as it would defeat my purpose to say this ... but it is to let other scholars know the greatness of our Swaminarayan teachings, but He is all forgiving as long as we know that with humility. He has taught us and wants us NOT to even speak or say a "Morah Sabda" ... (i.e. ... way subtle to explain ... I will try ... It means one should not even say a "neutral" word that gives one a discomfort or pain ... such as e.g. "Oh how come YOU are HERE?!" ... so that is not even HARSH but still it can be cause for pain to the embarassed person if that is the thrust. So that is NOT to say even a lower threshhold of discordant language, than one could consider harsh or bitter or condescending or paternizing or ... etc ... as we all are or wish to impart a great peaceful "SAAMP" - co-existence for all. Jai Swaminarayan to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Hi there... I went thru quite deeply on the subj that is being discussed ... i feel it is high time both sides stop fighting on who is right & wrong ... Amit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 all of you pple r fools man, arguein which gods da best dey all real and plaus swaminarayan aint a god 4 ur information hes a guru hus soul rests with us aswelll but god are pple lik ram shiva krishna pparvati kali amba shiva ganesh laxmisaraswati thats da treuth 4 all u fools u lot shouldnt b hindu if u goin 2 argue wot wots da rwal gods and . lik dat seriosuly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 "all of you pple r fools man, arguein which gods da best dey all real and plaus swaminarayan aint a god 4 ur information hes a guru hus soul rests with us aswelll" reply : for your information Bhagwan Swaminarayan is God infact he is Supreme God. Thousands of krishnas, Rams, Shivas, etc. offer there services to him. But fortunately for fools such as yourself there is hope. His Divine Holiness Pramukh Swami Maharaj says that it doesn't matter what religion you follow, as long as you follow it with full faith, true bhakti, and most importantly you follow it without a doubt, if you do all that then in the end there will be hope for you. "In God We Trust" Jai Swaminarayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 all of you pple r fools man, arguein which gods da best dey all real and plaus swaminarayan aint a god 4 ur information hes a guru hus soul rests with us aswelll but god are pple lik ram shiva krishna pparvati kali amba shiva ganesh laxmisaraswati thats da treuth 4 all u fools u lot shouldnt b hindu if u goin 2 argue wot wots da rwal gods and . lik dat seriosuly How can you be into this stuff and at the same time write like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 How can i write like this? i wrote the message before yours. I wrote it because one they are denying he/she was denying the existence of Lord Swaminarayan, the Supreme God who m ust be worshipped for final redemption. To deny the form of God, meaning saying he is nirakar is one mistake he can never forgive. God is Sakar, Sarvopari, Pragat, and Sarva Karta. We shouldn't argue which god is the best becuase by doing that we are one not only making our own god look bad because he/she doesn't teach us to fight, and vilify other gods. We should all practice our own religions and perfect that. We should become Adarsh-ideal-perfect. Jai Swaminarayan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to the text that I quoted, which left me dumbstruck. Not to your reply to the same text. It's just that I can't seem to grasp how somebody with a vocabulary like that is engaging himself in this sort of philosophy. I had no intention of insulting you or your religion, you believe what you want to, as do I. Hare Krishna! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 there is no evidence that Bagvan Shiv or Jesus even lived so what is all this nonsense regarding evidence about? Don't get me wrong I am not saying that they didn't exist but I know for a fact that Sahajanand Swami did! I have great respect for Bagvan Shiv...although I am a firm believer of Bagvan Swaminarayan. God is the true master. Contemplating his existance is the greatest sin. It disturbes me to see this conversation. So I had to reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 I came across this page through a google search and what I have read has disturbed me greatly. I am a devotee of Bagwan Swaminarayan (the divine master). It is funny how all swaminarayan devotees on this page have such positive views on this particular subject where as the others from different faiths have very negative approaches to the subject matter. Why is this?... maybe it is because of Bagwan Swaminarayan's teachings. However, these teachings can only be revealed through a spiritual master... a guru. Also, what is all this debate about the shikshapatri and vachnamrut being "changed?" This is not the case. These are original teachings of the lord my friends. One individual was criticizing the Swaminarayan scriptures and saying that even if they were true they would have to be interpreted by one's own self and not a guru. However, how can you grasp the real essence of what Mahraj is trying to say without having someone explain it to you. ex) you walk into a drug store with a prescription from the doctor... do you know what it says? what the doctor means?... no. You need the pharacist to explain! In the same way the guru is our pharmacist who conveys the message of God ( our doctor)in ways we can understand. PS. if you still have doubts do a quick check... 1) what makes you think the vachnamrut/shikshapatri are any lesser than other teachings like the gita? Who wrote the gita anyway? Krishna Bagwan?... NO! 2) the reason why Bagwan Swaminarayn mentions Krishna Bagwan to be worshiped is in order to attract devotees at first into the fellowship. God is the controller! He can do what he pleases. Read Jetalpur 5 in vachn. this is where mahraj says he is the supreme Lord. 3) Lastly, what proof is there that any of these other devtas lived? I am not saying that they didn't. In fact I do becasue Mahraj has said so but at the same time Mahraj has also said his devotees are even greater than these devtas because of his samband. 4) very few people at the time of Ram, Krishna etc. believed they were actually God incarnates. Bagwan swaminarayan in 45 years that he lived had a satsang samaj of hundreds of thousands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Only God can do this! I had to respond since I believe it is my obligation and duty to protect the name of my Lord. However, by no means am I saying for anyone to start believing in Swaminarayan. I know that what I am doing is right and I will continue to do it as long as I live and even after I die. Jai Swaminarayan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 l ;l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Haribol, Yes we must see scripture with the light of Guru. However, Guru explains the essence of the teachings. He does not interpret and fabricate. For example: In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says he is source of all incarnations. Bona fide guru explains that this means Krishna is Supreme Personality of Godhead. In Shikshapatri, it is also stated that Krishna is the source of all incarnations. Unfortunately, the gurus of the Swaminarayan movement don't accept Swaminarayan's own teachings. "1) what makes you think the vachnamrut/shikshapatri are any lesser than other teachings like the gita? Who wrote the gita anyway? Krishna Bagwan?... NO!" Written by Vyasadeva (incarnation of Krishna) - predicted in scripture. Swaminarayan not predicted in scriptures. "2) the reason why Bagwan Swaminarayn mentions Krishna Bagwan to be worshiped is in order to attract devotees at first into the fellowship. God is the controller! He can do what he pleases. Read Jetalpur 5 in vachn. this is where mahraj says he is the supreme Lord." Regardless, there is no evidence that Swaminarayan even comes in a bona fide parampara (And we are advised to understand vedic knowledge thru parampara). To claim to be a Vaishnava sampradaya one must come in either the Brahma sampradaya, the Shiva sampradaya, the Lakshmi sampradaya or the Kumaras sampradaya. "3) Lastly, what proof is there that any of these other devtas lived? I am not saying that they didn't. In fact I do becasue Mahraj has said so but at the same time Mahraj has also said his devotees are even greater than these devtas because of his samband." How about ALL the vedic scriptures that mention Rama or Krishna? How about the fact that Kamsa's prison is still there to be seen in Mathura etc? In contrast, none of the Vedas predict Swaminarayan or his sampradaya. "4) very few people at the time of Ram, Krishna etc. believed they were actually God incarnates. Bagwan swaminarayan in 45 years that he lived had a satsang samaj of hundreds of thousands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Only God can do this!" It's irrelevant really, I go back to the point that God's advents are predicted in vedic scriptures - if not, we have no choice but to reject the claim made by the person who claims he is God. Hare Krishna, Your Servant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Listen you foolish swaminarayan followers. The Bhagavad-gita is the main scripture of Hinduism, period. So follow the Bhagavad-gita or you will fall down as stated by Lord Krishna in the BG. Stop being ignorant now and worship the same person that Swaminarayan himself worshipped, Lord Krishna. Read why Krishna is god: www.gitamrta.org/god.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Is it that hard to be positive? "foolish Swaminarayan followers?" What would Krihna Bagwan say to your response? Try to have a reasonable conversation for once. PS. with that attitude I do not see a devotee instead an outcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 How would you feel if someone took your position and enjoyed your family? Lord Krishna gets very angry when others claim to be God. he showed this when he killed Hiranyakashipur who claimed to be God. So it's ok to call those who worship Swaminarayan as God 'raskals'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I have been reading this today. It is very big argument. I think People are misunderstanding. Only thing I want to say is that. When Lord Ram was here, how many people recognize him and consider him as Lord himself. I might ask the Vanars (Monkeys), but no human begin. Correct me if I am wrong. How many mandirs were there for Ram Bhagawan, None, It was not until his 8 or 9 the generation they built the mandir/temple? Whom did Lord Ram worship? I taking about his Estadev (God he did Puja) When Lord Krishna was here on Earth, how many people recognized him? Only few people. There was no one was ready to believe in him. Whom did Lord Krishna worship? There were no mandir of Lord Krishna during his time. When Lord Krishna was giving the Updesh of Bhagwat Gita, and his divine form there were only two people were able to see him. One is Arjuna and Sanjay. When Lord Swaminarayan was here about 225 ago (1781 - 1830 AD) who recognized him? Well the 500 parmhanso (500 saints) did. Yes, it is true that he talks about Lord Krishna as his Estadev. But according to my understanding, it is not right to do the puja of your self, even if you are god. His wrote in shikshaparti about Lord Krishna, but when you understand mahima about Swaminarayan sect., and then you will understand more. When god is present on this earth, we as human begin do not want to believe that. What if I say I am god, is anyone going to believe in me. NO. In say way, when bhagwan is here on earth no one wants believe that. I hope this makes more understanding. We all are trying to represent our own God as supreme begin. It is all mahima. If you read our all the scriptures, there is no were it say we have right to discriminate any religion or any god. Thank you and Have a great day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I think you are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Srila Prabhupada clearly stated that anyone who says 'he is god' 'i am god' 'and so is he' and so on is a RASKAL. You are living in darkness if you don't accept KRISHNA as the Supreme. As stated in the Vedic scriptures. Don't concoct your own God, otherwise you will go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Can you Please mind you language. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 We must be assertive otherwise everyone will think they are God and there will be no righteousness in the world. So don't concoct your own god, accept the scriptures. Lord Krishna is the supreme. Before killing heranyakashipur, Lord Narsima said anyone who claims to be the supreme will face the same fate, be ripped apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Still have not answer the quesions. When god is present on earth who recognized him? Can some one say more regarding this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Those who are qualified, his great devotees only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 what if we worshipped both of them as supreme? or if you truly belive swaminarayan is god then hold him in higher authority and visa versa. But i thinki t is right to worship both of them to some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts