Shiva - Swaminarayan - Jesus

[Guest guest]

what ever was written by man were gods word. swaminarayan (if you believe was god) insisted saints to write scriptures where some of the saints were not at all educated. such scriptures can only be the energy and power of god and nothing else.

 

the only scriptures that were proof read were the anecdotes of god when he was young

 

 

Believe what u want.

 

Wishy - washy arguments -typical BAPS, and other God-men views.

 

Please quote from bonafide scripture when making a claim, put some substance behind words.

[Guest guest]

"I am the source of all SPIRITUAL & MATERIAL WORLD. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts" (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.8).

 

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." Lord Krishna (Bg. 18.66)

 

[Guest guest]

"Regarding Lord Shiva, many vaishnavites consider him to be a devotee of Krishna or Vishnu. This is most probably due to the rift between Vaishnavs and Saivas which has been occuring for thousands of years. Prabhupada gives an analogy of Milk and Yogury, Krishna is compared to Milk, and Shivji to Yogurt. They are both same yet different. One should also take into considereation the differences in the manfiestations of Lord Shiva, that certain shivas are shiv tattva, but Lord Sadasiva is no different from Krishna, he is Vishnu Tattva- non different from the Lord. Lord Shiva is also absolute in his nature. This is confirmed by Great Vaishnava Acharyas and devotees. Lord Swaminarayan to accepts this in his Shikshapatri. Sripad Vallabahcarya makes it clear in his Balbodh that Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva are identical and both are considered Parabrahma. Balbodh meaning the basics to the devotion of God. In the Chaitanya Mangala Murari Gupta too confirms this. Lord Chaitanya visits the lingaraja in southern india and Murari Gupta Comments on it. That Lord Caitanya and Lord Shiva are one and the same, and he who considers them different suffers a grave curse. In the Ramayan, Lord Rama too confirms thie absolute nature of Lord Shiva, he states that those who consider Shiva as different from him, or him different from shiva are bound to rott in hell nor attain Godhead not even in their dreams."

 

This is an incorrect mayavadi-like philosophy, trying to put everything on the same level of the Supreme simply because God is omnipresent and expands Himself. Though Lord Shiva is nearly on the platform of Vishnu, but cannot give liberation to anyone, so He is not equal to Krishna.

So to put this debate beyond any doubt here follow some conclusive quotes from our beloved spiritual masters.

 

Quoted from His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada in teachings of Lord Caitanya(p.:

 

"In the Vishnu-mantra it is said that one who considers the Supreme Lord Krishna in the same category with the demigods -be they even Brahma or Shiva- becomes at once an atheist."

(also C.C. Madhya-Lila 25.79-80)

 

Quoted from His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada in teachings of Lord Caitanya(p.308/309):

 

"Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Gosvami Maharaj has remarked that there is a class of common men who claim that anyone and everyone can worship the Supreme Lord according to his own invented mode of worship and still attain the Supreme personality of Godhead. They claim that one can approach the Supreme Lord either through fruitive activities, speculative knowledge, meditation or austerity and that any of the methods will succeed. They claim that one can accept many different paths and still reach the same place, and they maintain that the Supreme Absolute Truth may be worshiped either as the Goddess Kali, or Goddess Durga, or Lord Shiva, Ganesha, Rama, Hari or Brahma. In short, they maintain that it does not matter how the Absolute Truth is addressed, for all names are one and the same. They give and example of a man with many names;if he is called by any of those names, he will answer.

Such views may be very pleasing to an ordinary person, but they are full of misconceptions. One who worships the demigods, motivated by material lust, cannot attain the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If one worships the demigods, the external energy of the Lord can award some results, but this is not to say that one can attain the Supreme Lord by such worship. Indeed their worship is discouraged in Bhagavad-Gita."

 

To expand on the milk-yoghurt example I quote:

 

"Yogurt is a preparation of milk, but still yogurt CANNOT be used as milk. Similarly, Lord Shiva is an expansion of Krishna, but he CANNOT act as Krishna, nor can we derive the spiritual restoration from Lord Shiva that we derive from Krishna. The essential difference is that Lord Shiva has a connection with material nature, but Vishnu or Lord Krishna has nothing to do with material nature. In S.B 10.88.3 it is stated that Lord Shiva is a combination of three kinds of transformed consciousness known as vaikarika, taijasa and tamasa. The Vishnu incarnation, although master of the modes of goodness within each universe, is in no way in touch with the influence of material nature. Although Vishnu is equal to Krishna, Krishna is THE ORIGINAL SOURCE."

Another quoted example: The demon Ravana was very powerful, but when Krishna in the form of Ramachandra desired to kill him, no one could protect him. Ravana was a great devotee of Lord Shiva and was praying to Lord Shiva, "please come save me from this danger." But Lord Shiva did not come. Then Parvati, Lord Shiva's wife, asked Lord Shiva, "What is this? He is such a great devotee and has served you so much, and now he is in danger and is asking your help. Why are you not going to help him?" Then Lord Shiva replied, "My dear Parvati, what shall I do? I cannot give him protection. It is not possible. Why shall I go?" Therefore, if God wants to kill someone, no one can give him protection and if God wants to protect someone, no one can kill him."

 

"In the Chaitanya Mangala Murari Gupta too confirms this"

 

What is actually meant by this is that the pure devotee is to be considered as good as God. Since Shiva is considered to be the greatest devotee of Lord Krishna it would be a huge offense not to take the prasada. We too consider our acarya's to be as good as God, because out of their causeless mercy, empowered by the Supreme Lord, they spread the glories of the Krishna, and prepare for us the road for our deliverance.

 

Hope this clarifies things!

 

Haribol!

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

As you just referenced sikshapatri; Lord swaminarayan talks about Lord Krishna as the source of all incarnations.

 

i am not sure how you interpret Lord swaminarayan as supreme

[Guest guest]

Jai Shri Krishna to all,

 

Hello Suren,

Thank you very much for clearing soem of my doubts. From you message I can now say that the ABSOLUTE TRUTH is only SHRI KRISHNA (the Supreme Personality of Godhead).

 

As per your explanation it is confirmed that Swaminarayan is AVTAR of NAR-NARAYAN DEV, then why he said that he is PARABRAHMA and KRISHNA is DEV? Why he said that he is AVTARI of all AVTAR?

 

Is Swaminarayan PARABHRAHMA or DEMIGOD?

 

Which is the Highest Planet GOLOKA or AKSHARDHAM ?

 

One on my Swaminarayan friend told me the following, I dont know if it is true or false

 

1. The one who follows Krishna or RAMA, Cannot get MOKSHA nad he gave me example also. He Said that 500 people who were converted to saints over one night, out of them one was ARJUN and LAXMAN.

 

2. He also said AKSHARDHAM is the Highest !!

 

3. Goloka is in category of MATERIAL WORLD !!

 

----------------

 

XxX

Bhavs

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhavesh,

 

I am glad that what i have posted cleared many of your doubts.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhavesh,

 

I am glad that what i have posted cleared many of your doubts. Regaurding the Prabrahma status of Swaminarayan and his status as Avataro na Avtarit, this is again as per the desire of the followers. There are many sects in India who follow many different beleifs, and as per their own deity they consider them supreme. Those who follow Durga, worship her as supreme because for them Durga is Supreme. For those who worship Surya, they regaurd him as Supreme, and those who worship Shiva regaurd him as supreme. This is not false, because according to their own natures all are supreme. Similarly, the followers of Swaminarayan consider him to be Supreme and source of all Avatars. I have also seen many proclaim Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to be Supreme and the Source of All Incarnations. This is as per the Bhav of the Devotee. The reference to Swaminarayan as Parabrahma and Krishna as Dev. That is very minute. For a very chaste and orthodox follower of Krishna, he would take that as offensive. But if your bhav your mood your feeling is different, then that for you is your proof of who Krishna really is.

 

Regaurding the Supremacy of Sri Krishna, for me I believe he is Parabrahma. This is confirmed by the Srimad Bhagavat Shastra as well as The Bhagavad Gita, and various other texts as i have mentioned earlier. In the Bhagavad Gita Arjun tells Bhagavan : "You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Narada, Asita, Devala, and Vyasa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."

 

Regaurding Akshardham and Goloka. Again as i had stated for each devotee of each specific form of God, the Abodes are also different. For a devotee of Siva, Sivaloka is highest, for Swaminarayan, Akshardham is highest, and for Krishna, Goloka is highest. But we must also take into consideration the words from the Shastra. The shastra gives a wonderful description as per how the cosmology of this universe is arranged. It states that there are many innumberable Vaikunta planets, but the Planet of Goloka is in the Center. Imagine our solar system, all the planets revovle around the Sun, similarly all the planets surround Goloka. Cosmologically this is the situation. To consider one planet higher than the other is again offensive. Because each Planet has its own quality as per the present form of God. Each planet gives its own different experience because of the different pastimes present. For us Vaishnavs, Goloka is highest because it houses the supreme love of Radha and Krishna, and all the pastimes of Krishna. For us the Love shared between Radha and Krishna is the highest bhav, as what Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu exhibited. But it is accepted by most sages, and scriptures that Goloka is the Paramdhama because it is no different from Sri Krishna. Even Swaminarayan makes this point clear in his Sikshapatri.

 

Regaurding the question about beliving in Ram or Krishna and the statement of your friend. What he has stated is highly offensive. To consider one incarnation of God different from another is a great offense for all incarnations are worthy of supreme praise. Just because Krishna came, does that mean we should forget Ram? Krishna and Rama are considered the be highest forms of Godhead, thus obviously they can grant Moksha. To say they cannot attain moksha is a statement out of Ignorance. What he is doing is trying to differentiate one avatar from another. This is offensive. 500 saints to be converted over night is just to exhibited the miracle of God and how he can change a person. If you look at the pastimes of Sriman Mahaprabhu, you will see that he influenced and affected many many thousands of people, but does that mean that he said stop worshipping Krishna and Rama? No.

 

What your friend said is out of mere fanaticsm. Even to Regaurd Goloka in the Material plane is very offensive. Because all the planets in the material plane are considered to be some kind of hellish atmosphere, including earth. How can Goloka be a Material World? IT houses the highest rasa for God, and the Love of Radha Krishna. It itself is Love, and how can love be destroyed. All material planets are destroyed during the pralaya, but never once will Goloka be touched.

 

Hope that cleared things,

Jai Sri Hari

 

Suren

[Guest guest]

According to the Vedic scriptures, Lord Krishna is the supreme, period.

 

So just worhip him and forget about what the fools and raskal swaminarayan followers say. They have no basis for their beliefs.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Have you everrr considered having respect for anothers beliefs. You guys are no better than those christians who come to your house and start blabbering, or muslims that force you to convert. Do you think Krishna would be like, ahhh yesss! these guys are fighting for me wonderful!! I doubt thatt. Despite how militant you may be, your forgetting the main point about Krishna, and that is Love. He was the incarnation of Love itself. And to Love others was his message. To love him is to love others. Even Lord Jesus gave us that message: "Love others just as i have loved you". The whole reason Bhagavan Vyasdev wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam has a reason behind it. He feared destruction, and the militant aspect given by the Mahabharat, thus that made him very uneasy. Then under the guidiance of Sri Nadadmuni, he was told to compile the Srimad Bhagavatam- for what reason? To spread Love, and Love for God. You guys are defying the whole purpose of the Bhagavatam, To Love. In this Kaliyug people will hat each other and fight in the name of Religion (just like you are), but the purpose of the Bhagavatam or any other scripture is to unify, to worship God as a human, not as a devotee of Krishna, or a devotee of Allah, or a devotee of whoever. You are labeling God, and limiiting him to a name. The Shastras give us an image of What God is, and Who he may be, but in the end it is upto our heart, upto our soul to percieve him. Trust me I was once like you and I also said Krishna this Krishna that Krishna this blah blah blah, but it got me no where, it was just a bunch of words coming out of my mouth. I have to admit back then i didnt know Krishna. He was very distant to me. But now that Ive experienced Love, I think i know him better then I had before. Guru Nanak, Naamdev, Tukaram, so many Saints only talked of Love as the true form of Shri Krishna. Lord Chaitanya, and all our Acharyas have taught uss one thing to experience Krishna through love. The love of Shri Radha Krishna, that is our purpose. All are equally Gods creations, no one creation is better than the other. If Naamdev even respected a Dog as an equal to him, why are you distinguishing between even a fellow human simply because of his beliefs. God guides all of us and reveals himself accordingly. Just as Shri Krishna revealed himself differently for each Gopi or Each Queen in Dwarika, he does the same for us. After all, as Lord Chaitanya said, We are Gopis are we not? He is our Love, and we are his Lovers. Quarreling and proving whose right and whose wrong is a waste of time, why not spend that time to glorify God as a whole, chant his names, and glorify his pastimes. Your doing nonsense talking, that this is better that is better, this is highest, thats highest. If somone does not believe in what you believe, leave that to them. You should just offer your knowledge, and let them decide whats right. Let God guide them, he is in all our hearts and he will guide us on what path we should follow. It is by his will we work, it is by his will what we do. Live and Let Live, Love all others just as he loves us. This is what ive learned in my 18 years of Bhakti. And if I have not realized anything, then i leave that to God, and pray that he will guide me. But i am only offering what i beleive in and what i think is right. The rest is left to you.

 

Jai Sri Hari

[Guest guest]

Both sides believed in God.

 

The difference was that one side was on krishna's side and other side was on the opposing side.

 

Lord Krishna to Arjuna to 'kill them'.

 

When you are on the worng side, you have to suffer.

[Guest guest]

Lord Krsna makes his claim comclusively about himself and other incarnations being the Supreme Personality of Godhead in various scriptures and I can quote them to you (in fact just read Bhagvad Gita - various instances)

 

Where is there evidence of Lord Swaminarayan as Supreme Personality of Godhead -please provide bonafide scriptural evidence.

 

if swaminarayan is krishna how can you differentiate between supreme and not supreme

 

 

[Guest guest]

What ever scriptures about the respective avatars, like Ramayan for Bhagwan Rama & Bhagvatam, Mahabharat and other Puranas written by VedVyas for Krishna Bhagwan.

 

If one goes looking for Bhagwan Rama in the Vedas or any other scripture ancient to his period, One wont find any thing about Rama. Similarly if you try to find about Bhagwan Krishna in the scriptures ancient to his time like Ramayana or Vedas, you wont find anything.

 

Srimad Bhagvatam was written by Vyas after he met Krishna Bhagwan. And no scripture or vedas ancient to Krishna Bhagwan's time predicted his incarnation. All the scriptures related to him were written after he incarnated on earth.

 

As you cannot expect anything about the Krishna Bhagwan in Ramayan etc..Similarly how can one expect to know about Lord Swaminarayana in the Scriptures written Before he came on to this earth? Bhagwan Krishna is believed as Sarvopari by us because It has been told by Vyas in Bhagvat Gita, Bhagvatam, Puranas etc..Similarly Lord Swaminarayana is sarvopari for his followers as he himself told in the Shkshapatri,Vachanamrutam, HariLeelamrut, SatsangiJeevan, Harileela Kalpataru, etc...

 

At the starting of the Shikshapatri Bhagwan Swaminarayan says, "I meditate in the heart on Lord Shree Krishna, on whose left resides Radhikaji, in whose heart resides Laxmiji, and who plays with His Bhaktas in Vrindavan"

 

Tulsidas was the devotee of Lord Rama but at the beginning of Ramcharitmanas he did the Mangalacharan of Lord Shiva and prayed to lord Ganesha, Does this mean that Tulsidas's choicest devotion was towards them,NO. Similarly at the begining Lord Swaminarayan did the Mangalacharan at the beginning.

 

The Person who writes a scripture doesn't mention his greatness directly himself in his writings, If I am doing the discourse and at the beginning If I tell my own Mangalacharan and my greatness directly then no one is going to listen. Gita, Bhagvatam etc were all written in third person i.e., Vedvyas and he wrote the full Glory as spoken by Krishna Bhagwan. But Lord Swaminarayan wrote the Shikshapatri by himself. Thats the resaon why he mentions about Lord Krishna and passes on his message. But while discoursing, like Lord Krishna did, even Lord Swaminarayan told his full Glory that he is the ParaBrahman.As the discourse of Krishna Bhagwan is Bhagvat Gita, similarly the Discourse of Lord Swaminarayan is Vachanamrutam which is moreover compiled and varified by him.

 

What ever he has written in Shikshapatri in context to Lord Krishna is for the people to understand his message without any problem at that time. If he would have written in Shikshapatri that I myself is ParaBrahman then everybody would get confused and would never follow his teachings and their lives would have never been modified.

Even when Krishna Bhagwan was present on earth very few people believed him as Bhagwan, But after he left they read his teachings and then followed him. Even the Paramhansas and Devotees close to Lord Swaminarayan had the full conviction that he is the Parabrahman. But for the ones who were new in the fellowship he made it easier in the Shikshapatri. Every one knew Krishna Bhagwan at Lord Swaminarayan's time, Thus they didn't have any problem in following Shikshapatri and make themselves pure and capable of understanding the swaroop of Parabrahman later on.

 

Otherwise if you see the other scriptures of the Sampraday written by the Paramhansas when Lord Swaminarayan was present on earth, All say that Lord Swaminarayan is the Supreme Parambrhaman.

 

As from Gita, Purans and Bhagvatam Krishna Bhagwan is Sarvopari, Similarly from Vachanamrutam and other Scriptues Lord Swaminarayan is Sarvopari.

 

Not only that his mission is to be present on the earth forever inorder to do the liberation of all the Jivas making them Brahmroop. He is doing this through his Gunatit devotee Akshar Brahman. And that Akshar Brahman today is Pramukh Swami Maharaj and through him the Lord is doing his work.

 

Even all the CIDs together in the whole world cannot spot a small black spot in his life. He is such a Pure saint who has done so much for upliftment of society, making the people free from addictions and putting them on the path of liberation. His divinity is exprienced by some many people of which many are the world famous dignitaries.

 

Ashtang Brahmacharya about which is written in Upanishads is so difficult to follow, But he has never ever fallen even slightly from obeying this discpline. Inspired by him today there are 700 youths following this Ashtang Brahmacharya. Following this rule without the presence of god is impossible. The BAPS Organisation is the only Organisation in the Whole world who has such saints following such a Niyam of Brahmacharya. Not only that, also thay do not even touch money. They can't even keep a single penney even though they travel world wide.

 

Some one had written that

"BAPS gurus are raskals and Prabhupada would have kicked them"

Prabhupada would have taken you out instead. A pure Guru like Prabhupada would have never done such a thing. Moreover he would be so pleased by knowing about Pramukh Swami Maharaj.

 

when a group of ISKON saints went for the Darshan of London, Neasden BAPS Mandir they were so astonished by knowing that this Mandir was built in such a short time, They revealed that some Strong force of god is working in this organisation. The mandirs build by Pramukh Swami Maharaj is no joke,The Gandhi Nagar Akshardham on 24 Acres is no joke, The Delhi Akshardhaam on 105 acres of Land which is impossible to built in such a short time has been built by Pramukh Swami Maharaj only in 4 years.

 

Without knowing anything properly no one has the right to critisise any Guru.

 

Hope this would make some Clarification

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that...

 

Having said what u said, it still doesn't justify praying or worshipping Lord Swaminarayan as the Supreme Personality of Godhead since:

 

a. He isn't conclusively and absolutely mentioned in any bonafide scripture as an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead

 

b. No avatar of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is predicted between Lord Buddha and Lord Kalki

 

c. We live in Kali Yuga so we can only aim for unadulterated and absolute truth so we do not come back to a misguided civilisation bent on sense gratification and self indulgence - we must aim for the eternal spiritual skies of Goloka and Vraj.

 

Large organisations and 'authorities' (including Dharmic) bend peoples thoughts to gratify their own sense pleasure purposes and do not allow the beauty of Truth to shine forth with its magnitude of different colours.

 

Let's put it like this...

 

If you want to be a great artist to have to turn to great artists and understand different processes. If for instance you want to be good at Tai Chi (because you thought that this was the absolute truth and there is no higher) you would practice in the best system of the art and not an inferior one but in the end you will only become a Tai Chi master after a long long period of study. In the same way there is no point studying Religion (especially in Kaliyuga) that will take you to becoming something (like the Tai Chi Master) and then having to do the work again in another life (basically wasting your PRECIOUS time) because you did not learn the first time that your eternal relationship is with the Supreme Personlity of Godhead as defined in BONAFIDE scripture -Krsna, Ram, Nrsimhadeva, Kapila, Matsy, Kurma, Vamana.

 

The same applies to every field of study including Religion, the science of Self-Realization and understanding your relationship with The Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

The latter is in fact very important since 1st you have to understand 1st what defines The Supreme Personality of Godhead and what does not. Ultimately what defines him is the Bonafide Scripture. And what are known to be the two ultimate bonafide scriptures? Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam (Srimad Bhagavatam by the way is the most important Purana:

 

SB 12.13.15: Srimad Bhagavatam is declared to be the essence of all Vedanta philosophy. One who has felt satisfaction from its nectarean mellow will never be attracted to any other literature.

 

SB 12.13.16: Just as the Ganges; is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Sambhu [siva] the greatest of Vaisnavas, so Srimad Bhagavatam is the greatest of all Puranas.

 

SB 12.13.17: O brahmanas, in the same way that the city of Kasi; is unexcelled among holy places, Srimad Bhagavatam is supreme among all the Puranas.

 

 

 

As one Prabhu stated earlier -quoting:

 

"I am the source of all SPIRITUAL & MATERIAL WORLD. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts" (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.8).

 

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." Lord Krishna (Bg. 18.66)

 

Remember Ajuna was fighting for rigteousnous. Even many of Arjunas uncles and Teachers (like Drona) were well aware of different spiritual sciences (and were educated greatly) and were well aware of the greatness of Lord Krsna but in the end they were still NOT on the side figting ALONGSIDE Lord Krsna - they sided with Duryodhana. These people made a big mistake even though they had great knowledge in spirituality.

 

There are many instances to quote from Srimad Bhagavatam relating to this point where though you may have this analytical view about God and different spiritual sciences you may do yourself a great injustice by not approaching him when he's only a stones throw away.

 

You, in fact we all all have a choice. Getting out of this Samsara is relatively easy compared to any other yuga.

Let's make the right choice this time and fight for the purpose of righteosness and not taint this purpose by falsity and untruth.

 

With regard to Astanga Yoga. Yoga of any description works to the benefit of making the body fit and healthy so that the Yogi can be more comfortable and defined in his daily work. Fine. It also helps meditation and focus on goals and aspirations. Fine. What is not fine is when you lose sight and use it in the wrong way and become brainwashed or mesmoried, or fascinated by gymnastic feats which essentially have no substance and deter you from your Real Self interest.

 

Instead of you trying to work and get yourself into knots, try to let the real truth reveal itself to you and not let large organisations contort your way of thinking to fund their pseudo-scholarly beliefs.

 

Don't forget and I quote:

 

'Srimad Bhagavatam is declared to be the essence of all Vedanta philosophy. One who has felt satisfaction from its nectarean mellow will never be attracted to any other literature.'

 

Jai Shri Krsna

 

 

[Guest guest]

There is no mention of swaminarayan in the sastra.

 

I agree with what suhnlight has stated.

 

Those who deviate from the sastra are fools and raskals, period.

 

Even if they build beautiful temples. Herankashipur was very powerful and he considered himself as God. But he was killed by Lord Krishna.

[Guest guest]

if swaminarayan is krishna how can you differentiate between supreme and not supreme

 

Where does it mention Lord Swaminarayan is Lord Krsna?

 

Please quote from bonafide scripture and stop putting your adulterated views in the discussion -it is not right to mislead young people who are reading this, they can be impressionable!

 

SB 12.13.15: Srimad Bhagavatam is declared to be the essence of all Vedanta philosophy. One who has felt satisfaction from its nectarean mellow will never be attracted to any other literature.

 

SB 12.13.16: Just as the Ganges; is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Sambhu [siva] the greatest of Vaisnavas, so Srimad Bhagavatam is the greatest of all Puranas.

 

SB 12.13.17: O brahmanas, in the same way that the city of Kasi; is unexcelled among holy places, Srimad Bhagavatam is supreme among all the Puranas.

 

and also as one Prabhu stated earlier -quoting:

 

"I am the source of all SPIRITUAL & MATERIAL WORLD. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts" (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.8).

 

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." Lord Krishna (Bg. 18.66)

 

Jai Shree Krsna..

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Suren,

 

Jai Shri Krishna !!

 

Brother I was again reading the explanation which you sent about Shri Krishna and Shri Swaminarayan.

 

I am little bit confused as per your below explanation

 

"In the Srimad Bhagavatam it is stated that the Lords Nara and Narayan were born to Dharma and Murti Devi. Lord Swaminarayan too manifested himself in the house of Dharma and Bhakti Mata."

 

So it means before appearance of lord swaminarayan, Nar Narayan Rsi already took first incarnation and swaminarayan is Second incarnation OR Srimad Bhagavatam was written after appearance of Lord Swaminarayan. Please can you clearify as am confused.

 

Hare Krishna !!

 

Bhav

XxX

[Guest guest]

Jai Sri Radhe Bhavesh,

 

The first Incarnation of Nara Narayan is what we know in the Bhagavatam. In the Bhagavatam it tells us that The Lord manifested himself in the house of Dharmadev and Murtidevi. Dharmadev was a king, and Nar Narayan were his two son. Narayan and Nara are also the first to innaugurate a democracy. Before they left for the mountains to live as sages, they incorporated a democracy in the kingdom. They incarnated perhaps some millions of years ago way before Rama and Way before Krishna.

 

The Bhagavatam was compiled roughly 4800-5000 years by Bhagavan Vedavyas, in it describes the Paegents of Shri Krishna and his major incarnations. (The major 24)

 

As per the situation with Lord Swaminarayan, he is mentioned in the Padma Puran and Skhanda Puran. Yes it is infact Lord Narayan and Nara who manifest as Lord Swaminarayan. Because Nara and Narayan are premenantly on this planet till the end, they are able to manifest themselves. When the Lords Nara and Narayan were cursed by Durvasa, Dharmadev the demigod and Bhaktimata volunteered to be Lord Narayans parents. This Dharmadev is the same as the other Dharmadev in the prior incarnation.

 

In other words here is how it works=God---->manifeststs as Lord Nara and Narayana----->Manifestests into Swaminarayan.

 

Hope that Helps

 

Jai Radhe

 

Suren

[Guest guest]

As per the situation with Lord Swaminarayan, he is mentioned in the Padma Puran and Skhanda Puran. Yes it is infact Lord Narayan and Nara who manifest as Lord Swaminarayan. Because Nara and Narayan are premenantly on this planet till the end, they are able to manifest themselves. .

 

Please quote from the scripture itself before making such STATEMENTS!!! word for word please from 'Padma Puran and Skhanda Puran' with correct referencing otherwise shut up!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Shri Krishna to All,

 

Thanx for info Suren.

 

As per the Scripture we can say "Narayan = Krishna & Nar = Arjun" then for the case of Swaminarayan "Narayan = Swaminarayan and Nar = ??

 

Sorry for asking you many questions but I am really interested knowing the REALITY.

 

Hare Krishna !!

 

XxX Bhavs.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Brother !!

 

The way you asked your question to Surenbhai, it sounds really rude. Ask your question politely and u will be answered the way he is answering me.

 

Hare Krishna !!

 

XxX Bhavs

[Guest guest]

Please quote from scriptures directly otherwise shut up.

[Guest guest]

Aaacha, you wanted verses then here. Have fun.

 

Adhyaya 18 of the Vasudev Mahatmya of Skand Purana:

 

Maya krushnana Nihataha Sarjunana Raneshu Yay |

Pravartayishyantyasurastay Tvadharmam Yada Kshitauha ||42||

Dharmadevatada Murtaum Naranarayatmana |

Pravrutayapi Kalau Brahman ! Bhutvaham Samago Dvijaha ||43||

Muni-shapan-nrutam Praptam Sarshim Janakmatmanaha |

Tatoavita Gurubhyoaham Sadharmam Sthapayanaja ||44||

 

"The Lord will be born to a family of Samvedi brahmins, to Dharma dev and Murti devi using Narnarayan as the causal factor. By establishing Dharma, he will free the Munis and his parents from the curse of the Rishi, which sent them all on earth to be reborn."

 

But knowing how you guys work, you guys are gonna its not authorized blah blah blah. No matter how much i will quote, you still wont believe it. So theres no point in arguing. Im not here to argue. I just saw Bhaveshbhais confusion, so I am just trying to offer what i can and what i know. Im not forcing him, its left to him to accept it or reject.

 

Jai Radhe

Suren

[Guest guest]

there is only one god and that is krishna

shri swaminarayan bhagwan is a reincarnation of lord shri krishna at his own free will.

 

lord krishna has himself said that

"whenever and whereever there is a decline in religious practice and wicked actions predominate, i descend myself and assume a form"

 

and also

 

"in order to protect the saints and to destroy and annihilate the devils and to establish the principles of religion, i advent myself and come into concrete existence from time to time"

 

don't you see the wider picture.

you are like a frog stuck in a well, you can only see what is above but you can't see beyond that.

 

there are other scriptures that predict swaminarayan and just because it does not say that he krishna it does not mean that he isn't krishna

 

lord narnarayan is arjun beside krishna, narsihh was incarnation of krishna, ram was incarnation of krishna and so was swaminarayan. therefore you can not say that these were all differnet gods or say that ' Where does it mention Lord Swaminarayan is Lord Krsna?' because they were all shri krishna at differnet times and for different reasons.

 

[Guest guest]

who said that they were different?

[Guest guest]

Aaacha, you wanted verses then here. Have fun.

 

Adhyaya 18 of the Vasudev Mahatmya of Skand Purana:

 

Maya krushnana Nihataha Sarjunana Raneshu Yay |

Pravartayishyantyasurastay Tvadharmam Yada Kshitauha ||42||

Dharmadevatada Murtaum Naranarayatmana |

Pravrutayapi Kalau Brahman ! Bhutvaham Samago Dvijaha ||43||

Muni-shapan-nrutam Praptam Sarshim Janakmatmanaha |

Tatoavita Gurubhyoaham Sadharmam Sthapayanaja ||44||

 

"The Lord will be born to a family of Samvedi brahmins, to Dharma dev and Murti devi using Narnarayan as the causal factor. By establishing Dharma, he will free the Munis and his parents from the curse of the Rishi, which sent them all on earth to be reborn."

 

Is this it? This is neither here or there. This does not justify anything. How do you know this is a reference to Lord Swaminarayan and not Lord Kalki when he descends in the Kali Yuga?

 

Please don't be decieved by speculative knowledge -in your heart of hearts you know Lord Krsna is Supreme so don't waste your valuable time!