Dealing with our Christian friends

[Max_]

Well lately I've been visiting a Christian chatroom. Not to preach or anything but rather to hang out and talk to other (hopefully) God conscious people. I told them upfront I'm a Krishna, and a couple people were somewhat ok and supportive. I tried to explain to them about our faith and how we all believe in the one God. But tonight I was very harshly verbally attacked by them. They tried telling me things like Krishna is satan in disguise, and other horrible lies that I don't even want to repeat. Well needless to say I took the verbal abuse in stride and tried to defend my faith and devotion. I didn't get angry at all and just tried to explain my position to them, but sadly a lot of them had very hard hearts and wouldn't listen to a thing I said. Eventually after almost everyone in the room started throwing insults at me I left, emotionally beat but happy at the same time. Somehow I think experiences like this is a test of faith of sorts, they made me want to become closer to Krishna, and spread His sweet nectar and words.

 

Hare Krishna!

[sumedh]

Somehow i find that the persons who come to many (if not all) of such (christian/muslim/...) chatrooms are more consumed in determining as to who is satan (for them nearly everyone else is!), rather than knowing God. Its kind of sad to see that their minds have actually been captured by the thoughts of "satan"; there can hardly even be any talk of sane philosophy with them because they don't have any.

Its sad because as far as i can see Jesus was always talking of God.

[Guest guest]

It's pointless to try and convince someone else of your beliefs on the internet, or whatever else for that matter. Whether it be forums or chatrooms, all that it results in is a lot of bickering and namecalling, so just focus on your own spiritual progress and respect other people's beliefs no matter what they say of you or your religion. I've recently discovered another 'Krishna' forum where the most foul and abusive demeanour was being displayed by so-called devotees, where they were talking freely, using foul language amongst each other to address true Vaisnava's other than Srila Prabhupada. Seeing this behaviour made me very sad and made me wonder whether it was a good idea to spread Krishna consciousness in the west after all. Realising that even people who have the most perfect and extensive knowledge right in front of them, explained and lived by the perfect examples in the form of the Guru, are still getting caught up in demonic activities, eluded by Maya. So what to say of other religions, who's scriptures are but like tables of contents compared to the Vedas?

Krishna is certainly the Greatest Magician.

[Guest guest]

a sankirtan party was singing in the city centre (UK), going back and forth to chant the holy names. when all of a sudden after i had made a donation, some christian people started singing as if in competition with the Hare Krishna's! this really made me angry, but i left with a mixture of feelings as Yes, they were competing, yet wasn't everyone singing about the Lord?

Hare Krishna!

[BruzWayne]

Regarding your comment on 01/15/05 12:09 AM, well I'm glad that you are back in the right forum. I also have a friend that is Christian and she won't have an open mind about other philosohies and then she also start saying that yoga is bad. Then I understand that she is speaking the words that come from her Pastor or Priest or Minister so then I decide not to arguing with she but instead I respect her opinion and tell her that it's ok if she remains faithfull to JesusChrist and then I stop talking about Krishna Consciousness.

 

When somebody's faith is very strong on a particular avatar like Jesus or Mahoma or Buda it is kind to respect such a strong faith and show respect for that.

 

Maybe one day these persons will develop an open mind in order to take a look at Krishna Consciousness, however it can take not only some years but many lives instead, many cycles of birth and death, only Krishna knows.

 

Hare Krishna.

[imported_Sanjay]

 

 

 

 

DAR MAX

 

ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO YOU MAX IS THAT KRISHNA IS FICTION…

YOU ARE LIVING IN A DECEPTION…

JESUS IS THE ONLY REALITY.

 

Jesus IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE – HE IS NOT AN AVTAR AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD – HE IS THE SON OF GOD HIMSELF.

HE CAME TO THIS WORLD IN HUMAN FORM ONLY TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM SIN AND HE DIED FOR YOU AND ME AND BY THE SHEDDING OF HIS BLOOD OUR SINS ARE WASHED AWAY HE ROSE UP AGAIN AND CONQUERED DEATH AND ASCENDED ONTO HEAVEN AND YOU CAN GO THERE TOO BUT ONLY IF WE BELIEVE IN HIM AS OUR GOD AND THE ONLY GOD.

 

HE DID NOT COME TO KILL THE SINNER BUT TO GIVE US VICTORY OVER SIN. LOVE THE SINNER BUT HATE SIN.

HE DOES NOT LIVE IN STATUES OR THREADS OR RITUALS BUT IN THE HEARTS OF TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. HE IS A LIVING GOD.

 

AND YOU CAN GO TO GOD THE FATHER ONLY THROUGH Jesus HIS BELOVED SON.

THE DEVIL DUPLICATES GODS WORKS TO MISGUIDE PEOPLE. HE HAS DUPLICATED THE PRINCIPLES OF CHRISTIANITY AND LED PEOPLE ASTRAY BY INTRODUCING RELIGIONS. BUT FOLLOWING CHRIST IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION ITS ABOUT FOLLOWING THE TRUTH. THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NOT IN WORDS BUT ITS ABOUT POWER. WATCH BENNY HINN AND OTHER EVENGALISTS PERFORM MIGHTY MIRACLES IN THE NAME OF THE Lord Jesus CHRIST AND EXPERIENCE THE POWR FOR YOURSEL. FOR THE BIBLE SAYS “TASTE AND SEE THAT THE Lord IS GOOD”

 

I PRAY THAT GOD OPENS YOUR SPIRITUAL EYES AND THAT YOU REALIZE THAT HEAVEN IS NOT SOMETHING THAT ONE CAN ACHIEVE THROUGH GOOD WORKS AND INNUMERABLE REBIRTHS BUT ONLY BY THE GRACE OF GOD AND THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

 

You have a choice brother… choose Jesus and you will have eternal life. And while you are on this earth you will be free from the yoke of the devil and will have eternal joy, peace and health and wealth even without that silly meditation and yoga and chanting of mantras.

 

I am telling you this so that when after death you stand before the Lord you will have no excuse to say that no one told you about the truth of Jesus.

 

PRAISE THE LIVING LORD JESUS

SANJAY SOLOMON

 

[imported_Sanjay]

The Bible, the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, are the inspired Word of God without error in the original writings, and complete revelation of His will for the salvation of men, and the divine and final authority for all Christian faith and life.

God--There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ--Jesus Christ is true God and true man, having been conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He died on the cross, the complete and final sacrifice for our sins according to the Scriptures. Further, He arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven, where, at the right hand of the Majesty on High, He is now our High Priest and Advocate.

The Holy Spirit--The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and during this age, to convict men of sin, regenerate the believing sinner, indwell, guide, instruct, and empower the believer for godly living and service.

Man--Man was created in the image of God but fell into sin and is therefore lost, and only through regeneration by the Holy Spirit can salvation and spiritual life be obtained.

Salvation--The shed blood of Jesus Christ and His resurrection provide the only ground for justification and salvation for all who believe, and only such as receive Jesus Christ by faith are born of the Holy Spirit and thus become children of God.

The Return of Jesus Christ--The personal, premillenial, and imminent return of our Lord Jesus Christ is our hope and has a vital bearing on the personal life and service of the believer.

Future Events--There will be a bodily resurrection of all the dead; of the believer to everlasting blessedness and joy with the Lord, and of the unbeliever to judgment and everlasting conscious punishment.

The Church--The true Church is composed of all such persons, who through saving faith in Jesus Christ, have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and are united together in the body of Christ of which He is the head.

Baptism and Communion--Water baptism by immersion soon after accepting Christ as personal Savior, is a testimony of death to sin and resurrection to a new life and the Lord's Supper is a memorial service setting forth in sacred and symbolic manner the death of the Lord Jesus Christ; all true believers and only believers should share in it.

 

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

Welcome to the forum, if you intend to be somewhat rational and not to say words that you yourself do not understand.

No need to cut-paste same post for three persons, everyone can read all posts. Also no need to post same things in different threads, thanks.

 

If you want to discuss then a better thing would be to first try and understand by posting sincere questions (please no all capitals also; makes difficult to read). You see the fact is that vaishnava philosophy is the most complex one and takes a long time to understand even intellectually; the devotees here are not fools, okay. Of course, the first qualification is humility which you will need in plenty for any discussion.

[Nrsinghadev]

All praise to Lord Jesus!

 

Hare Krishna!

 

Fortunately our philosophy respects and embraces other authentic scriptures as they contain in a very limited way the same principles that our scriptures. It is this attitude of acceptance that allowed this religion, the oldest in the world, to stay pristine even after numerous raids and pillages by foreign invaders.Even though countless ancient temples were destroyed by the Muslims, Christians and who not,they who followed the Vedas in a way similar to Jesus, displayed no hatred towards these people and their religion even though their holy Places were destroyed,and many Vaisnava's were murdered over something as simple as a different point of view. Refusing to even listen to the voice of reason, these raiders thought they were doing God's work, while the Vaisnava's knew they were just being clouded by Maya and overcome by the guna's of raja and tama.

 

So that is why wise people here won't resent your Christian crusade on this board, or your denial of God, Sri Krishna.

 

Like you quote from the bible "Taste and see that the Lord is good." most people here are experiencing on a daily basis through their method of worship.

Since the Lord is omnipresent and all powerful as I'm sure you will agree, He can do whatever he wants to do, anywhere, anyhow. So through the revealed scriptures, methods have been described for performing numerous types of worship of God in order for the devotee to be able to use all the senses in service of the Lord. And so it has been described how to make deities of the Lord ,by following strict rules, in which He will then by His own will manifest Himself to allow for worship. In a Similar way, you correctly consider the Bible to be instilled with the energy of the Lord, the church to be holy ground, and also have the image of Jesus on the cross hanging in the church, which I'm sure you sometimes turned to in prayer.

So as all these Holy things are objects to help in worshiping the Lord, we install deities in temples by proper procedures so that we may have all of our senses engaged in our worship of the Lord.

It is a common misunderstanding for any outsider to regard deity worship as the worship of the outer shell of these deities, thinking the people stupid to expect wishes to be granted or praises to be heard by an immobile statue. But if you regard my points made, you should by now have come to the understanding that it's not the material wrapping of the deity that is being worshiped, but the presence of the Lord, who by His own will and joy, comes to stay in these deities like residents stay inside a house.

We also fully comply with the notion that one can only get back to the home of God by His Grace, and that the way of Jesus certainly is one way to go there.

Of course, if you believe in God's infinite power, you would also have to agree that God wouldn't be God if He in his omnipotency would be able to provide for just one single path that leads back to Him, when He created so many different kinds of human beings?

 

So once more,

 

praise Lord Jesus!

 

Hare Krishna!

 

 

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

DAR MAX

 

ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO YOU MAX IS THAT KRISHNA IS FICTION…

YOU ARE LIVING IN A DECEPTION…

JESUS IS THE ONLY REALITY.

 

 

Men cannot become a god, neither can a dead man be called a god. GOD does not become helpless like humans nor is it necessary for HIM to die like humans. HE can save all living beings merely by HIS thought. He does not cry like a helpless human being and call for another god at any time. HE does not possess material body like human beings or like your fake man god.

[Max_]

Prabhu I think you missed the point here. Why should be deny Lord Jesus when He is part of God? if you want to believe He is part of Krishna or He is just guru or what, either way don't deny Him and His influence on a specific spiritual path back to Godhead. I'd be the first person to admit I don't agree with a lot of things in the Christian/Catholic religion, but I still don't say that Christ has false, and you know what neither did Srila Prabhupada. I don't know what you might have thought but Srila Prabhupada only had good things to say about Jesus Christ, he said himself that Christianity is a path back to Godhead, so we call Him Krishna and they call Him Yehwah or whatever, we're all talking about the same God, the Absolute Truth.

 

Hare Krishna

[Sadie]

As a Christian sometimes I feel embarassed because so many other Christians are so quick to say that another belief practice is 'silly' or whatever before understanding what it is all about. Chanting is like a prayer-how can talking to God be silly? So many Christians seem to exhude (sp?) hatred and it sometimes seems cultish. Jesus said we are to love each other- our neighbours, everyone. All this yelling and not trying to understand another person's beliefs doesn't seem to come from love but more like a 'need to convert'- like for brownie points or something. Jesus=love /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nrsinghadev]

Indeed, some people posting here seem to think that Lord Jesus was a common man because to them he seemed helpless and he 'died'. Failing to grasp how these events were all just His pastimes which served their purpose as instruction in stories. Whatever happened to Him he stayed true to the path of Bhakti. It is clear from a vedic perspective that Jesus followed the path of Bhakti and was a bonafide Avatar of the Lord. He displayed perfectly the Father/Son relationship one can have with the Lord. Those devotees who don't see Lord Jesus as a bonafide avatar will find an interesting read on

http://www.iskcon.net/oregon/jesus/

I hope this read will prevent any further insults towards Jesus and Christians on behalf of our community, as it's throwing insults is not the kind of behaviour befitting the devotee. As our dear friend Max quoted so nicely from the Caitanya Caritamrta in a similar thread where insults were being thrown around to other religions:

 

"Sri Krsnadasa Kaviraja, the author of Caitanya-caritamrta, says that all good qualities become manifest in the body of a Vaisnava and that only by the presence of these good qualities can one distinguish a Vaisnava form a non-Vaisnava. Krsnadasa Kaviraja lists the twenty-six good qualities of a Vaisnava: "(1) He is very kind to everyone. (2) He does not make anyone his enemy. (3) He is truthful. (4) He is equal to everyone. (5) No one can find any fault in him. (6) He is magnanimous. (7) He is mild. (8) He is always clean. (9) He is without possessions. (10) He works for everyone's benefit. (11) He is very peaceful. (12) He is always surrendered to Krsna. (13) He has no material desires. (14) He is very meek. (15) He is steady. (16) He controls his senses. (17) He does not eat more than required. (18) He is not influenced by the Lord's illusory energy. (19) He offers respect to everyone. (20) He does not desire any respect for himself. (21) He is very grave. (22) He is merciful. (23) He is friendly. (24) He is poetic. (25) He is expert. (26) He is silent."

 

So by means of request on behalf of Guru's instructions I would like to humbly ask those ,who are partaking in use of insulting/abusive language on this board and speak in the name of the Gita, to memorize and put to use the qualities described as a guideline for the examplary behaviour befitting a Vaisnava. Any other behaviour simply implies one is not acting in Krishna consciousness. Please be wary of this kind of degradation.

 

Hare Krishna

[imported_Sanjay]

Your Spiritual eyes are not open yet.

 

That is why Jesus Said "Let those who have Ears hear".

This is the reply to your mail

 

YOU SAID - Men cannot become a god

 

Obviously men cannot become God. We all agree contrary to some hindus who feel that after innumerable rebirths men can become gods [devtas]

 

YOU SAID - Neither can a dead man be called a god

 

Yes so true A dead Man cannot be called God. God is living Like Jesus who rose up to declare that he is God.

 

YOU - GOD does not become helpless like humans nor is it necessary for HIM to die like humans.

 

Yes it is not necessary for God to become human and die like Humans. But God knew that the only way to redeem man was to present Himself as a sinless sacrifice to wash away the sins of man. so that whoever believes in his sacrifice will have eternal life with him in heaven after this physical death.

 

 

YOU - HE can save all living beings merely by HIS thought.

 

That is not true and it is not backed by any scripture so dont create your own scriptures. God does not go back on his own rules - THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH - is the rule in Gods kingdom. And so man had to die {Physical as well as spiritually] but god so loved the world that he created a way for man to have eternal life through the sinless sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ.

 

YOU - He does not cry like a helpless human being and call for another god at any time.

 

You dont understand yet. He came on earth in human form to die as a human Once for All [for it is impossible for God to die]. He lived in the flesh and bore all the sufferings of humans as a man. But because he had to be sinless he was conceived by the Holy Spirit and not man. because if a man were to conceive him he would be born in sin and sin would be in his nature.

He cried out because he was in pain just like any other human. he was flesh and blood. and it was the shedding of his blood that cleanses us from sin.

He was human and he called out to God The Father. His father, Our father, Our Creator.

 

YOU - HE does not possess material body like human beings or like your fake man god.

 

Yes God does not possess material body like humans. But you see Jesus was born as a human for a purpose. And that purpose was to die for the world.

 

Even when God made the world he knew that man would be disobedient to him and therefore sin would creep into the world. God knows the end from the beginning. He knew that if man lives in sin man cannot be in His company since evil and God cannot have communion.

 

But God wanted to ave the fellowship of man whom he created so he decided to even at the time of creation Jesus agreed to later go down as a man and sacrifice his life as a sinless sacrifice and therefore defeat the devil and death anad grant man eternal live. Jesus came to reconcile man to God.

 

He is not a fake man god. He is a loving God who came in the form of MAn to reconcile Man with God [The Father]. He said Me and My father we are One.

 

 

 

[imported_Sanjay]

DEAR SADIE

Good to met another Christian. Sad to know that you have so much respect for others and not for JESUS.

Jesus said I AM 'THE WAY' 'THE TRUTH' AND 'THE LIFE'. He did not say he is ONE OF THE MANY WAYS and the Hindus believe...

Why are you so embarassed to proclaim that JESUS IS THE ONLY TRUTH and ALL ELSE IS FALSE.

Dont sit on the fence. either you agree with the Bible or you dont. Be HOt or Cold

THIS IS WHAT THE LORD SASYS TO YOU...

 

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

Yes Jesus is equal to LOVE but remember on the day of judgement he will sit on your throat with a sword and ask you to account.

 

I am not saying this - THE BIBLE SAYS THIS [WORD OF GOD]

 

Eze 33:7 So thou, O son of man [sADIE], I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

 

So it is our duty not to be embarassed and to warn people and show them the light that burns in us [Our LORD JESUS CHRIST].

 

Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

 

So share your light with people and tell them about JESUS or else Jesus will be embarassed of you eventually.

 

In the measure that you give so will you get.

 

Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

 

Luke 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

 

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

 

Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

 

SO BE CAREFUL "WATCH AND PRAY" FALSE PROPHETS WILL COME IN SHEEPS CLOTHINGS.

 

 

 

 

[imported_Sanjay]

DEAR Nrsinghadev

 

YOU SAID -

Fortunately our philosophy respects and embraces other authentic scriptures as they contain in a very limited way the same principles that our scriptures.

 

I am very sorry to say that you CONTRADICT yourself.

How can you respect the BIBLE when it says that you are worshiping a false god [Krishna].

Jesus Says that he is 'THE' way... not 'A' Way.

Therefore if He is THE way then there can be no other way. How can you respect that...?

So if you say you respect this it will amount to hypocricy.

Since to respect it will mean that you will have to forgo your own belief.

 

IT IS YOUR BELIEF THAT

"they contain in a very limited way the same principles that our scriptures".

 

Let me tell you that you are mistaken. principles like love your neighbor etc make up religion. but jesus is beyond religion. The BIBLE IS not a book of rules it is a LOVE STORY OF GOD AND HIS CREATED PEOPLE. He loved us so much that even though we were disobedient to him he made a way for us to recieve eternal life. or else we would all die in the fires of HELL [i am talking of spiritual death]

 

you live on the principles of rebirth. but the BIBLE tells us that after this life on earth we have life eternal with God in heaven only if we believe in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the fact that we will get eternal life only through him.

 

It is not about rituals but about belief in the heart because GOD READS THE HEARTS.

 

YOU SAID -

 

In a Similar way, you correctly consider the Bible to be instilled with the energy of the Lord, the church to be holy ground, and also have the image of Jesus on the cross hanging in the church, which I'm sure you sometimes turned to in prayer.

 

True the BIBLE is a work of Gods Holy Spirit and not the fictional creation of one man.

 

BUT

 

In the BIBLE God says That We are not to have any other Gods before him. No images or Idols even of any likeness to anything on Earth in Heaven or in the Sea. so even an idol of Christ Jesus on the cross is disobedience to GOD.

 

We Born Again Christians are followers of Christ who is a living God and lives in our hearts and we do not keep idols in our house.

 

SAD TO KNOW THAT you have to call god to come and live in deities or idols.

We followers of CHRIST JESUS call Jesus to live in our hearts and that is where he dwells.

JESUS SAYS

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

So call him in today and he will live with you and you will never have need to go to any idol to worship the living GOD. Holy spirit [the third Godhead of the HOLY TRINITY] will guide you into the required worship.

 

NOW MOST IMPORTANT

 

YOU SAID ---

Of course, if you believe in God's infinite power, you would also have to agree that God wouldn't be God if He in his omnipotency would be able to provide for just one single path that leads back to Him, when He created so many different kinds of human beings?

 

You are mistaken in your perception. God did not make different types of human beings.

He made 'Human beings' [it is only that they have diferent features and look different]

Human beings is one category of his creation. Other categories are trees, Birds, Animals etc.

 

GOD made man out of dust and then breathed life into him. that same man picked up the same dust and made idols out of it and started worshipping it. Praise God man could not breathe life into them or we would have had crores of walking idols.

Tell me if you are living with me why will you talk to my photograph.

The Bible says that in Gods Kingdom we walk by faith and not by sight. where sight is required there faith fails.

I believe in Jesus because I know his works in my life and I feel his presence with me all the time and true christians do not need sight [idols].

 

Now tell me how can you say that you respect Christianity. God says that one cannot serve two masters. You will hate one and love the other.

Your principles are not like those of the BIBlE because your foundation is not that of the BIBLE. the BIBLE is about JESUS CHRIST being the ONLY WAY.

 

The BIBLE SAYS THAT - EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

so it is not greatness to believe that there is only one GOD. But JESUS SETS THE BIBLE APART FROM PRINCIPLES OF THE WORLD FOUND EVERYWHERE ELSE.

 

 

[imported_Sanjay]

I visited the site that you mentioned. http://www.iskcon.net/oregon/jesus/

 

Its very tragic that Mr Prithudas is misled and that he has not been able to interpret the BIBLE correctly. Besides he has also used the BIBLE at his convenience.

Anyway all i can do now is pray for him and that his spiritual eyes are open by God and that he sees understands that Jesus is not about religion but about power

 

Whats the point you will say Krishna is GOd and i will Say that Jesus is the only GOD .

 

The Bible says

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

 

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[There is power in the blood of christ that was shed on the cross for you and me. so that we may believe and be saved]

 

AND MOST IMPORTANT

 

1Co 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

 

AND i tell you brother we can argue endlessly buty the truth is in power. I can demonstrate to you the power of God. the power that the name Jesus carries.

 

IF YOU WANT TO EXPERIENCE THE POWER OF JESUS then watch PASTOR BENNY HINN in BANGALORE [iNDIA]. ATTEND HIS MEETING or watch it on GOD TV or write to his ministry and they will send you the tapes.

 

He is in INDIA on the 21st 22nd and the 23rd of Jan 2005. at the Airport Grounds. Aroung 30 LAKH [3 Million] people will attend the meeting. It is a healing crusade.

 

JESUS WILL BE THERE TOO and HE WILL HEAL the sick and deliver the demon possessed. cancers will disappear. the lame will walk and the blind will see and the deaf will hear.

Come and see the mighty power of the one and only living GOD.

FURTHER DETAILS

http://www.bennyhinn.org/default.cfm

 

And yes if you are in touch with MR Prithudas tell him not to waste his time in comparative studies but to use that time to heal the sick and deliver the people in bondages. and if he needs to know how he can do that then he should call Jesus in his heart.

 

IF YOU WANT TO MEET A GOD WHO LOVES YOU WHO TALKS TO YOU AND LIVES IN YOUR HEART THEN...

 

Accept Jesus as Your Savior

What does it mean to become a Christian, a believer, a follower of Christ? Some people think you can be a Christian and go to heaven simply by going to a church, synagogue, or mosque from time to time. Others think it means being a good person, helpful neighbor, or honorable citizen. The Bible, on the other hand, points to only one way.

 

The Savior of all mankind was asked, “How can we know the way?” The reply by the Son of God holds the key to everyone's future: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

 

When we accept Jesus as Savior and begin a relationship with Him, we are "born again." Jesus was the first person recorded in Scripture who used those words. While speaking with one of the religious leaders, Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God ” (John 3:3). When you pray sincerely, asking Jesus Christ to forgive and cleanse you from your sins, the Bible promises forgiveness for every wrongdoing you have ever done : “The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7).

 

You are born again when you follow these simple steps:

 

• Acknowledge your need for Jesus Christ as your Savior by asking Him to forgive you of all your sins.

 

• Turn away from sin (what you do that hurts God, yourself, or others) and stop living in rebellion against God and His Word.

 

• Accept Christ's sacrifice on the cross as final and full payment for your sin.

 

• Invite Jesus Christ to live in your heart as Lord and Savior.

 

When you do these things, a miracle happens! You are born again! Jesus Christ comes to live inside you. You are freed from the overwhelming penalty of sin. As you obey God's commandments and apply His principles for daily living, the transformation continues: “Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

 

As you allow Him to take control and as you choose daily to walk in obedience to His Word, you become more and more like Him.

 

Begin Reading God's Word Today! [THE BIBLE]

 

Just as food is vital to your physical body, God's Word is the spiritual nourishment that will help you grow stronger. Reading and obeying God's Word will set you free from sin and temptation. The Bible will guide your Christian life: "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path" (Psalm 119:105). Besides revealing God's desire to forgive you, to help you overcome temptation, and to show you how to have eternal life, the Bible can also answer all of your important questions about living your life right now.

 

Since God's Word is His love letter and road map to successful living for believers, you should set time aside every day to read God's Word. Take your time as you read each verse, asking God to help you understand the wealth of God's wisdom contained in His Word. Just by devoting 15 minutes or so daily, you can read the entire Bible in one year. I recommend that you start with the Gospel of John, (the fourth book of the New Testament), which will help you understand more about your new life in Christ. Gospel of John

 

 

 

[imported_Sanjay]

You are mistaken.

 

God cannot be understood by the human mind. he is spirit and needs to be understood by the spirit. we aree made up of Body Soul and Spirit.

 

Body is the flesh which has fleshy needs like food / water etc.

Soul is made up of our intellect and emotions which we feel is a very Godly thing.

BUT

 

Spirit is what seeks God - Prayer, scripture reading, praise and worship of god.

 

One cannot approach God unless one Approaches through the spirit.

 

Body is born due to an act of intercourse and grows on food. Intellect grows through books and other worldly knowledge. but the spirit to Grow needs to be born first. Bible says that Flesh gives birth to flesh but the spirit is born from above [through GOD] not by good deeds but by the grace of God.

 

This is what the BIBLE TEACHES US that one needs to be 'BORN AGAIN'

 

NOW

 

Jesus came so that you and me may have SALVATION

 

Salvation is a gift that is made available to those who repent, believe and confess that Jesus is Lord and that He died and rose from the dead to save mankind (Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9-10). This gift cannot be earned through good deeds or by simply being a "good person" (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Timothy 1:9). It is a matter of faith (acting out on what you believe according to God's Word concerning salvation).

 

Steps to Complete Salvation

The following steps will help you obtain and maintain the salvation experience. It involves a process that will not only guarantee you entrance to heaven, but also position you to experience the benefits of heaven on earth.

 

1. Recognize/Admit That You Are a Sinner.

Because of Adam's sin of disobedience in the Garden of Eden, all of humanity was affected by, and infected with, sin (Romans 5:12-14). Mankind took on the nature of sin. Therefore, everyone that was born after Adam was born into a life of sin and death (Psalm 51:5).

 

2. Repent of Your Sins.

To repent simply means to "change one's mind; to change one's direction; to have a change of heart." It involves making a 180-degree turn away from sin and heading in the right direction toward God.

 

Repentance does not mean "I'm sorry." It is a quality decision to ask forgiveness of your sins, turning away from ungodly living and submitting to God's will for your life (1 John 1:9).

 

3. Confess Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Confession affirms Jesus' lordship (place of authority) over your life. Confess that He is your Lord and believe that He lived, died and was raised from the dead for the forgiveness of your sins.

 

4. Be Baptized in Water and Receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism is a symbolic representation of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Just as He was baptized, so must you be baptized (Matthew 3:6). You go down into the water, carrying your old man (lifestyle) with you, and die to yourself and your old way of living (Romans 6:3-11). When you come up out of the water, you are a "new" person.

 

When you become born again, the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart to become your Teacher, Comforter and Guide through life (John 14:15-17, 23, 26). When you receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4-8), you are covered with and able to tap into (activate) the burden-removing, yoke-destroying power of God -- the anointing (Isaiah 10:27). The evidence of this power lies in your speaking in tongues, or in an unknown, spiritual language (Acts 2:1-4). The purpose for this prayer language is to help you pray the perfect will of God, overcome areas of weakness (Romans 8:26) and build you up in faith and love (Jude 1:20-21). Praying in tongues is effective, because it bypasses the soul (the place where your mind, will and emotions reside) and, consequently, any fear, doubt or unbelief you may have. Speaking in tongues is spirit-to-Spirit communication: you speak directly from your spirit to God's (1 Corinthians 14:2).

 

5. Obey the Word of God.

Maintaining your salvation and enjoying its benefits is done by living according to God's Word (Proverbs 3:1-4; 1 John 5:3). Make His Word the final authority by which you live. Make sure every decision you make in life is biblically based. The Word must be your foundation.

 

Pray This Prayer:

Heavenly Father, I recognize and admit that I am a sinner. I turn away from my sins, confess with my mouth and believe in my heart that Jesus is Lord. I believe that He lived, died and was raised from the dead for my salvation. I receive my salvation and all of its benefits right now. Lord, thank You for saving me this day. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen!

 

If you have just accepted Jesus into your life, welcome to the family of God!

 

 

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

I am not going to waste my time trying to answer the questions you raised or the statements you said. It is not difficult to show that even the theology that Christians have developed is self-contradictory in many respects but no use talking to one who will not listen, who has his eyes/ears closed and who has eaten up his own reason. Sorry, no intention to hurt you only to say that if Krishna devotees are going to eternal hell then so be it; no need to give you unwarranted advice.

 

You lack the qualification to engage in any sane dialog, what to speak of transcendental knowledge. "The humble and meek shall inherit the kingdom the God" says who. So direct your efforts to developing humility and sincerity.

 

And one unwarranted advice from my side: pray to Lord daily for at least 2 hours daily like "O, Lord Jesus Christ please help me get rid of my impurities so i can love and serve you perfectly". Do not engage in any kind of preaching till you do this for at least 6 months. How should a prayer be done? "In the most humble state of mind thinking oneself to be lower than a straw in the street and more tolerant than a tree". If you have any objection to this proposal then spell it out.

 

Thanks for listening and do not unnecessarily be offended. Sometimes harsh words from even "devils" can do ultimate good. What (Srila Prabhupada and) i ask you to do is only become better christians, thats all.

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

Your Spiritual eyes are not open yet. That is why Jesus Said "Let those who have Ears hear".

This is the reply to your mail

 

 

 

I too feel the same about you. So why not read your gospels first where jesus tells umpteen number of times that he is no god.

 

 

YOU SAID - Men cannot become a god

 

Obviously men cannot become God. We all agree contrary to some hindus who feel that after innumerable rebirths men can become gods [devtas]

 

 

 

Devatas are not GOD as per Vaishnavism. So your statement makes no point at all. Besides your understanding is completely flawed.

 

 

Yes so true A dead Man cannot be called God. God is living Like Jesus who rose up to declare that he is God.

 

 

 

So jesus died first to rise up again. GOD does not die at any time. Only pretend gods die.

 

 

Yes it is not necessary for God to become human and die like Humans. But God knew that the only way to redeem man was to present Himself as a sinless sacrifice to wash away the sins of man. so that whoever believes in his sacrifice will have eternal life with him in heaven after this physical death.

 

 

 

Fairy tales. So who said GOD had no other choice than to offer HIMSELF as sacrifice. Your bible is fallible and makes ignorant comments as any other man made book. Besides how is it righteous to punish one being for another being's faults. This is unrighteousness and demonic to the core. All animal sacrifices or human sacrifices for somebody's intentional or unintentional sins are really demonic in nature. Hence your pretend god's human sacrifice itself is based on unrighteousness and hence cannot save anybody much less jesus himself.

 

Do you think GOD is limited that HE was forced to offer HIMSELF as sacrifice to save others ? For us GOD(Krishna) has unlimited powers. HE(Krishna), the LORD, by HIS mere thought can save everybody. Man suffers only because of his follies, and GOD has nothing to do with it. When man turns to GOD(Krishna) with real understanding, HE saves them by HIS powers. HE does not need to die, physically or otherwise, like some pretend man gods.

 

 

YOU - HE can save all living beings merely by HIS thought.

 

That is not true and it is not backed by any scripture so dont create your own scriptures.

 

 

 

and yet you yourself are following one man made scripture, written by men called bible.

 

This is what I said. You think that GOD is limited in powers. The very thought is blasphemous. Remember that GOD is omnipotent. Besides VEDAS affirm what I said. Upanishads say that Narayana(Krishna) offers salvation to whom HE chooses. This shows that by HIS mere thought HE offers salvation to deserving devotees. Note that this does not imply HIS(Krishna's) limitations.

 

 

God does not go back on his own rules - THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH - is the rule in Gods kingdom. And so man had to die {Physical as well as spiritually]

 

 

 

Man's death is only physically and not spiritually. Now you are following a man made scripture full of fallacies here.

 

 

but god so loved the world that he created a way for man to have eternal life through the sinless sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

Two words. Fairy tales. Your belief does not even follow old testament. No wonder Jews rejected jesus and christianity as well.

 

 

YOU - He does not cry like a helpless human being and call for another god at any time.

 

You dont understand yet. He came on earth in human form to die as a human Once for All [for it is impossible for God to die].

 

 

 

So here you agree that GOD cannot die. Whether jesus id god or not is another story. Jesus never said he was god, also jesus affirms he is not god, which you proved in your own words below.

 

 

He lived in the flesh and bore all the sufferings of humans as a man.

 

 

 

By your own words you admit the corruptible nature of your pretend man god called jesus.

 

You say that jesus was born in flesh. If this is true then jesus, your pretend god, could be killed or harmed or atleast has the potential to be harmed or destroyed. Note that this is a defect in your pretend god.. Hence your pretend god jesus is NOT OMNIPOTENT or atleast jesus is defective and therefore only shows that jesus is god only in name and not any truth.

 

True GOD is OMNIPOTENT and COMPLETELY DEFECTLESS.

 

 

But because he had to be sinless he was conceived by the Holy Spirit and not man. because if a man were to conceive him he would be born in sin and sin would be in his nature.

 

 

 

If jesus was truly God, then it should not matter whether he is born to a man or holy spirit. jesus' sinless nature should be intact in both cases. This statement of yours shows jesus' corruptible nature and further elucidates that jesus is a pretend god and nothing more.

 

 

He cried out because he was in pain just like any other human. he was flesh and blood.

 

 

 

very human indeed, and not anywhere near GOD.

 

 

and it was the shedding of his blood that cleanses us from sin.

 

 

 

Fairy tales

 

 

He was human and he called out to God The Father. His father, Our father, Our Creator.

 

 

 

Exactly. That is what I also said. Jesus was human, a man, who cried in pain like any other man and called to GOD, the father(Krishna). Jesus then died like a human also after this.

 

So you should not retract the statement that you made before where you agreed that men do not become GOD. Since jesus was a man, he too cannot become GOD. Case closed. You yourself stated here that Jesus was a man.

 

 

YOU - HE does not possess material body like human beings or like your fake man god.

 

Yes God does not possess material body like humans. But you see Jesus was born as a human for a purpose. And that purpose was to die for the world.

 

 

 

Nice story....May be good material for writing a novel. GOD is always GOD and never becomes human at any time unlike your pretend god jesus.

 

 

Even when God made the world he knew that man would be disobedient to him and therefore sin would creep into the world.

 

 

 

So your god made men who are imperfect, and therefore your pretend god is also imperfect. Why worship such imperfect pretend god.

 

 

God knows the end from the beginning. He knew that if man lives in sin man cannot be in His company since evil and God cannot have communion.

 

 

 

No comments except that this makes a good speculation about what GOD thought. It may be even biblical speculation. Note that you cannot use this argument against Hindus or Vaishnavas. We believe that all souls or Jivas existed eternally and still exists eternally along with the real GOD(Krishna).

 

 

But God wanted to save the fellowship of man whom he created so he decided to even at the time of creation Jesus agreed to later go down as a man and sacrifice his life as a sinless sacrifice and therefore defeat the devil and death anad grant man eternal live. Jesus came to reconcile man to God.

 

He is not a fake man god. He is a loving God who came in the form of MAn to reconcile Man with God [The Father]. He said Me and My father we are One.

 

 

 

Nice story...

 

Still GOD(Krishna) is always GOD and never becomes a man, nor does HE die like a man. Since GOD existed independently before creation, HIS BODY is transcendental to all MATERIAL nature. HIS BODY is PURE TRUTH, PURE and complete CONSCIOUSNESS and PURE BLISS. No defects(like death) touch HIM or HIS BODY as both HIMSELF and HIS BODY are identical. HE is OMNIPOTENT and is not LIMITED under any circumstance, place or time. All these reside in HIM and HE is not limited by them. Please suurender to such a GOD(Lord Krishna) and try to understand the TRUTH.

 

Fake gods cannot help themselves or others. They can only die either once or thousand times and yet will not be able to help themselves, not to mention others.

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

I think it is important to clarify a couple of things on which the whole current christian dogmatism is based.

 

 

He said Me and My father we are One.

 

 

 

If Jesus has really said that, then unfortunately the entire christians have been unable to understand this simple point. The interpretation of Christians is self-contradictory; Jesus first distinguishes himself from his Father (Me and My Father) so there is a difference, and then says "we are One" so they are same also. If you say that only the latter part is true, then do you mean to say that Jesus was a fool to create a distinction. He would have said "I am the One who is the Father". Can you not make out the difference between the two statements.

The meaning of this statement is very hard to understand for Christians; try to understand it using the example of fire and sparks. Jivas (souls) are like sparks who are one with the fire, but still different due to infinitesemal nature. Jesus (as the spark) is the son of Father (as the fire) who are One (as the spark is part of fire) -- okay.

 

 

the BIBLE is about JESUS CHRIST being the ONLY WAY.

 

 

 

If Jesus has said this (and not interpolated by his followers), then this complex point is beyond the understanding of the christians. The way to God is through His representative as "Guru", and Guru is One and not many even though they appear in different bodies at different places according to time and circumstances. Suffice to say first try to understand the first part and not get into the intricacies of guru-tattva.

 

 

The BIBLE SAYS THAT - EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

 

 

 

Never speak such without scriptural references. You have no idea what means by a "demon". Give the quote from Bible. A vaishnava is not a crook who will accept statements without direct scriptural references.

 

All of your other statements are only material calculations. Have you seen God; are you a pure devotee; do you know the meaning of pure devotee. Can you describe God (the Father)? If you cannot then you worship a mental concoction and not God. But one will progress from that point to the transcendental platform, if you have humility and not commit spiritual offences by blaspheming God (Krsna or Allah) and most importantly not blaspheming His devotees. God will easily forgive blasphemy at Him but blasphemy against the devotees may mean to be debarred from true spiritual life eternally.

[NotSoDizzy]

All the glories to Lord's devotes,

 

I read from some time the threads being posted in this forum, but until now I didn't had the courage to write not being qualified to speculate on subjects I do not fully understand. I hope i will not disturb anyone with my unqualifications.

 

The point I want to emphasis is expressed in the Invocation from Sri Isopanisad and is so clear and full that i don't think there is a religious person to believe it is false:

 

"The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance."

 

God is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. He holds all the opulence and for this he attracts all the living entities. Every entity is attracted by the Lord's opulence or energies or qualities in a form or another. Some are attracted by his inferior energy or as it is called "the material world" and other by the superior energy as a form of direct relation with the Lord. In this

way a person to be attracted (directly or indirectly) by something else than the Lord cannot exist. This is why the Lord is called by his devotes as Krsna or "The all-attractive". So I see no subject of fighting. If someone does not "like" this name that is because his conditioned state given by the preconceptions imposed by the material

nature. Gods name is not different from Him and represents an aspect or a potency of Him.

 

So, please do not fight anymore on topics that have no real substance and do not try to find fault in others before having the humility to find the fault in yourself.

 

"He who sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord, who sees all living entities as His parts and parcels, and who sees the Supreme Lord within everything never hates anything or any being". Sri Isopanisad Matra 6

 

----- Isn't this the Jesus spirit?

 

And finally, if this sound like demon-talk, than let me burn in that hell he is living in!

 

Please don't be disturbed by this talk, because I am unqualified to open my mouth.

 

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

 

Welcome to the forum. Your humility really embarasses me /images/graemlins/blush.gif i realize how arrogant i have become.

 

really nice quotes, thanks.

[anand]

Hare Krishna!

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obesiances unto him!

 

Personally, I have been amazed by the diligence the Christians show in converting others. It has amazed many times in how they just go out try to change everybody to Christianity. This might look wrong to us, but from the Christians point of view, they are right.

 

However, it is sad to see that the same Christians who are eager to make everybody Christians are themselves not following the codes strictly. As Srila Prabhupada said, we have to clean ourselves and preach Krishna Consciousness. Similarly, the Christians are preaching Jesus Consiousness but unfortunate most of them do not follow Jesus sayings.

 

Also, they give more importance to Jesus shedding of blood and his miracles when it is important to shed light on his actual teachings which is to love GOD and serve GOD and treat everyone equally.

 

Iam not saying I am a perfect devotee of Krishna but even to reach that stage, it is essential that we have our thoughts in the right place- that is-love all beings and serve GOD as the ultimate goal in one's life, except that Christians pray Jesus and we Krishna.

 

But, the Christians fail to follow Jesus by not following his principles. He clearly says that we should not harm other beings and love all, that being the case, i dont see who gives us the right to kill animals and if we kill animals on one side and eat them, how on earth can we preach LOVE FOR GOD when we are actively involved in killing GOD's children(the animals). In front of GOD, everybody is equal-animals or us.

 

When I asked this question to a Christian friend of mine- his reply was that since Jesus ate all this while He was alive, so can we. So my question is Jesus ate meat and also was ready to be crucified on the cross for others, are you ready to crucify yourself for others.

 

So, i guess my argument is we cannot compare us with Jesus as He is divine and appeared on this planet for a reason.

 

So, hope we as Vaishnavas(which means devotees of the Lord) clean ourselves and also help others to get cleaned.

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

theist prabhu posted this conversation in another place which nicely explains the other confusion in christians.

 

 

Prajäpati: ...from politics to the world of theology. One of the most misunderstood passages in the western scriptures, things that are..., most speculation about, is the beginning of the Book of John, where it is said, “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.” And that Greek word is logos. And so many people have said so many different things about that passage. No one really understands it.

 

Prabhupäda: They cannot understand the Absolute. God and God’s word are not different. Otherwise, why we are after Bhagavad-gétä? Because Bhagavad-gétä is the words of God. So as good as God.

 

Umäpati: Absolute?

 

Prabhupäda: Absolute, yes.

 

Svarüpa Dämodara: We also say that. We say that the beginning the sound vibration om was there. Om.

 

Prabhupäda: Yes. Sabdäd anävåtti. In Vedänta-sütra, Sabdäd anävåtti. Sabdät. By vibration.

 

Prajäpati: But it goes on to say, “Then the word then came down to earth and dwelt with man as Jesus Christ.” They say Lord Jesus Christ was the word incarnate.

 

Prabhupäda: That’s all right.

 

Umäpati: Incarnate means flesh, having come down in flesh.

 

Prabhupäda: That’s all right.

 

Prajäpati: From our Krsna conscious standpoint, this means a person who is jagad-guru, who is fully living sästra, and therefore non-different from the word of God?

 

Prabhupäda: Yes, yes. Because he is following the words of God, therefore he is not different from the words of God. It is practical. Just like a lawyer is not different from the law. Therefore he is called lawyer.