Jesus Suffered for the Sins of Man?

[Nrsinghadev]

Hare Krishna,

 

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding but I wasn't replying to your post, or the "re:guest" would have read "re:Vishnu" instead . It's fine if you combine your churchgoing with developing Krishna consciousness, however I must disagree that Jesus and Krishna are one. Jesus never claimed himself to be God but rather His son. Jesus was an avatar of God but that is by no means a reason to think less of Him. To consider Him a common man is a great sin just like it would be a great offense to think so of our Guru.

 

Haribol!

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

 

 

well the word is jesus and jesus is vishnu and vishnu is God in vedic.

 

 

 

Please don't avoid the issue and keep on repeating the same things as if they are any kind of explanations. What is the meaning of Word? If you consider the definition it means a sound vibration, and then you will have to explain how a sound vibration is a person and in particular God meaning possessing all the potencies. Next you will have to explain that how the Word can become flesh, and thus you will have to explain that how can God ever come under the influence of material nature which He has created by taking on a body of "flesh". The Bible and all other scriptures say that God created these innumerable material universes (directly or indirectly), so He is existing before it and His form has no relation to the material worlds i.e. it is not in flesh.

 

Fact is that scriptures other than Vedic texts dearly lack in any kind of explainatory power (which was appropriate for that time and place). Then read the Vedic text Bhavishya Puraana where Jesus is mentioned as Isha-putra i.e. son of God and not as incarnation of God/Vishnu. Then read all the quotations by our Spiritual Masters who say that Jesus is not God but His empowered representative; and read the quote by Srila Prabhupada where he says that Jesus came from Brahmaloka (and find out where Brahmaloka is). Then if you believe you know more than all these pure devotees and Vedic texts and Jesus himself, keep on claiming that Jesus is Krishna etc.

 

As for the usual claims of the texts from Bible regaring Word came in flesh or "I and my Father are One", the correct meanings of these have already been given in this forum HERE and HERE

[vishnu]

WELL IM SORRY BUT A WORD IS far MORE THAN JUST SOUND oh sorry caps was on, sound vibrations, those are only physical material manifestations. i know that my words have often manifested themselves into actual events, even my thoughts, as prayer, have.

why could the word not become flesh? God can become whatever he wishes. if he wants a body thats what he gets.

same as krishna. and under flesh? sorry but jesus is called someone who has never sinned.

if God has no form, why do you all worship an image?

Scripture doesnt need to give all info at once.

what matters is what i wrote in the jewish man-near death experience. i trust God he knows what to give.

thanks, ill sure read that text.

son of God? well you could say vishnu himself was son of brahma, or brahman. ever wondered why they are both part of a trinity? Father and Son God in christianity and Brahma and Vishnu are supposed to be inseparable.

and well, spiritual masters, i have those too in christianity. ill find it out. /images/graemlins/smile.gif brahmaloka triggers a memory in me hmm.

i dont want to claim much anything, i believe it, i have my info too, who else would be the 9th incarnation anyway, i hope i can save a soul from unnecesary suffering by the cross, it would sure please God for every believer means he didnt die in vain.

 

 

[vishnu]

*Sir John Wodroofe notes: "The fourth Gospel opens grandly, 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.' These are the very words of Veda. Prajapatir vai idam asit: In the beginning was Brahman. Tasya vag dvitya asit; with whom was the Vak or the Word... Vag vai paramam Brahma; and the word is Brahman"

 

 

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

 

 

WELL IM SORRY BUT A WORD IS far MORE THAN JUST SOUND oh sorry caps was on, sound vibrations, those are only physical material manifestations. i know that my words have often manifested themselves into actual events, even my thoughts, as prayer, have.

 

 

 

A word in the material realm is material in nature whatever it may be. The question is how can word manifest before the existence of material realm. Again i say, yes if you desire i can try to provide the explanation from Vedic point of view; so that quote is not wrong but that most christians (if not all) do not understand it.

 

 

why could the word not become flesh? God can become whatever he wishes. if he wants a body thats what he gets.

 

 

 

No a material body is constrained under the laws of material nature and God never becomes "lesser" in anyway ever by taking on a body of flesh. The material bodies are made of the five elements (and three suble elements for the subtle body) but the vigraha (form) of God is complete and perfect with its nature being sat(Absolute eternity)-chit(Absolute Knowledge)-ananda(Absolute bliss).

 

 

same as krishna. and under flesh?

 

 

 

As i said His body is completely transcendental, though the non-devotees without the transcendental eyes/senses see only a material reflection with their material eyes.

 

 

if God has no form, why do you all worship an image?

 

 

 

A correction: no material form. His Sri murtis are actually His archavigraha form (again non-devotees only see a material reflection); please read the links to the writings of Srila BhaktiSiddhanta.

 

 

son of God? well you could say vishnu himself was son of brahma, or brahman. ever wondered why they are both part of a trinity? Father and Son God in christianity and Brahma and Vishnu are supposed to be inseparable.

 

 

 

There is some confusion here. The Brahm (also written as Brahman) is the impersonal aspect of the Lord, while the one in trinity is Brahmaa (to distinguish the name from Krishna which is pronounced as Krishn) who is the main engineer of one particular universe. God/Vishnu is neither born from Brahm neither from Brahmaa rather the other way round; Lord Krishna says in Gita that "I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman". Thus God is simultaneously manifests both personal and impersonal features, but the impersonal feature is incomplete manifestation (same with His feature as the SuperSoul). Brahmaa and Vishnu as only as inseperable as any other jivas (sentinent beings) for Brahmaa is like a post which is taken by an appopriate jiva; additionally Brahma is a pure devotee and in His capacity as a Guru he is an empowered representative of God, and in addition he is also a guna-avataara (i.e. empowered with the material mode of passion).

 

 

Prajapatir vai idam asit: In the beginning was Brahman. Tasya vag dvitya asit; with whom was the Vak or the Word... Vag vai paramam Brahma; and the word is Brahman

 

 

 

I am not sure where you got these quotes from. But the translator has again confused Prajapati Brahmaa with Brahman (pronounced in sanskrit as Brahm as i said before) who are completely different.

 

The actual one in Vedanta-sutra is "Sabdäd anävåtti". Please read the link i provided here

It is a different thing in the sense that it is a sutra (aphorism) which contains a big Truth in small words and its complete explanation is given in Srimad-Bhagavatam and in the commentries of our acharyas.

[vishnu]

God can become lesser if he wishes, thats my belief.

lesser while being greater at the same time. he can do anything.

 

I believe that jesus was just like that, far more than just matter, only for people who could see straight so to speak, he was seen as whom he truly is. He didnt say for nothing 'the kingdom of heaven has come close to you'

 

thanks for that info /images/graemlins/smile.gif it clarifies. i love that idea of the trinitygods being representatives of the gunas.

 

i got the quote from reluctantmessenger.com, where i also got that story of the life of saint issa from.

 

Godbless

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

thank you for your blessings

 

 

God can become lesser if he wishes, thats my belief.

lesser while being greater at the same time. he can do anything.

 

 

 

Yes lesser and greater in the sense of what features He manifests. But here the issue is different, in that He cannot come under the influence of material nature -- in fact He or His pure devotees never directly come in contact with the material nature for that is the illusory potency only meant for those who want to enjoy independently.

 

 

i love that idea of the trinitygods being representatives of the gunas.

 

 

 

If we consider their svarupa or true nature then Brahma is mostly a jiva, Lord Vishnu is God (or referred to as vishnu-tattva/para-tattva) and Lord Siva is between jiva-tattva and vishnu-tattva.

[Guest guest]

this jesus being a incarnation of krishna is mayavadi thinking and mayavadi religion, your not a vishnava your just a modern hindu, go to a hindu temple and chant and mediatate or follow the scriptures.

 

give up this madmade concocted religion and follow the gita and SB and not this confusing mixed up beliefs.

 

your lost in maya just chant and read the gita and give up this manmade belief system.

[vishnu]

I would like it if you would reply to the topic of the jewish man with his NDE if jesus wasnt vishnu. i have my sources, and of course the bhagavadgita doesnt say jesus is krishna, cuz it was written earlier. but hey, it doesnt say buddha is krishna either!

you dont know a thing about me so refrain from judgement about how spiritual i am... or not.

 

yes i do chant and sing praises daily.

 

I follow the gita. wise words and i try to live up to everything Vishnu wishes.

 

 

[Parabrahman]

nde's are the mind triggering to the situation at the moment. People are not fuly dead when they have an nde. People have visions exactly like that when they do spaceship training. NDE's are not the real afterlife. It's your mind reacting to you body about to die.

[vishnu]

actually, those latter are described as dreams. NDE's are much more real than living state, and often they have NO brainwaves at all, which is clinically dead, some even had an nde while rigor mortis has begun to set in.

i can find that one, ill post a topic about him.

 

[Parabrahman]

it still isnt fully dead. It is the passover from alive to dead. NDE is much like a OBE. Read up on OBE's. They too are dreams that seem realer than life

[vishnu]

well, then obe might be true. but in that passover, they see often the place where theyll end up when there dead.

[Parabrahman]

all im sayin is that NDE's arent the extent of what there is. They dont show you everything a lot is still missing

[vishnu]

i could not agree with you more!

I say the same about every religion:there is a lot more to know about God then any scripture will tell you.