Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 hi, new visitor here. i am intrigued by the Hare Krishna philosophy and understand the 4 main sins of meat eating, gambling, intoxicants and illicit sex. about meat meating, i understand that fish, meat and egg are prohibited. can i ask why egg is not allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specofdust Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 eating eggs is like eating unborn babies - YECK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 i take your point. although why is it that some products say "suitable for vegetarians" and still contain egg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_yasodanandana Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 because in general opinion eggs are ok for vegetarians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specofdust Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 this is simply some rascal idea made up by pseudo-vegetarians. Some claim to be vegetarian but that it is okay to still eat chicken/ fish or eggs or even all the above! This is not true vegetarianism it is simply cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrsinghadev Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hare Krishna, It is definitely cheating, but let's not point the finger at those people who stick to such a diet. At least they're attempting to the best of their ability to abstain from the bigger sins. Bear in mind that most of these people are unaware of Vedic scriptures and stick to such a diet simply out of (a skewed)compassion, which is always a fragile startingpoint. So at least these people are not commiting the greatest sin of cow-killing and eating, and in a somewhat lesser way, the killing and eating of other animals that are more conscious, such as pigs and sheep. Chickens are even less aware of their situation then aforementioned animals, but due to their horrific situations of industrial processing and slaughter on a more massive scale, I would still count them in the same section as the sheep for sheer massiveness of misery. It goes without saying that we should never recommend eating meat,fish or eggs to anyone, so that is how we should always approach this matter. First, make clear that you disapprove of meat/fish/egg-eating, or animal killing of any kind for that matter, and go from there. At best, if these people are unable to stop eating chicken ,they should at least be urged to opt for the choice of chickens who are not treated like a product and get to live in a natural environment. It's still death and great sin, but the suffering is less. Those who are just starting to get involved in the Vedic culture should be given their time to quit eating sin, simply because if they stick to the culture then the knowledge gained paired with Krishna's blessings will shortly do the work for the neophyte anyway and their hunger for the flesh of dead animal corpses will turn naturally into an honest disgust of the diet. In my experience the treshold for some of the general public, who are just curious as to what this culture is all about and come to visit us, is already pretty high. We may know that it's crazy to be scared of our loving culture, but to an outsider, who's main feed of info on the Krishna movement has been through the media of one-sided,ill-informed books and the presscoverage of internal scandals, it's a colossal undertaking. Obviously we should mention that we abstain from eating meat/fish/eggs accompanied by the reasons behind it, but this should be done without imposing. This is all of course only my humble opinion and I mean no offense. Haribol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anand Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obeisances unto him! I agree with Nrshingdev's post. We should not impose but educate people of their wrong doings. It is a big mistake and a sin to do what they are doing but it is unfortunate they dont realise the basic philosophy of treating everyone equal. I dont think we should be a vedic person to know that we should not hurt other beings, just common sense. I think the treatment should be to take all the meat-eaters to the slaughter house and actually show them how the animals are treated and killed, atleast then theu will change. There is something interesting I would like to say in this regard. I have a friend and he is a staunch christian. He preached Christianity to me and how Jesus does this and that. Anyways, this friend is a veternary doctor and he supossedly helps animals by treating them and so forth. When I went to his house, i saw his lifestyle of meat-eating and everything. Also, this person has been to slaughter houses and seen cows being slaughter and he showed me pictures of him standing beside the caracass. It was a horrible site but he was enjoying it. I did not comment anything as I was sad. But, this friend is a Christian and veternarian and he cannot understand the fact that animals are killed for him eating its flesh. For his it is like second nature. This revealed to me how low man has become and how numb he has become to animals. This is sad. An edcucated christian behaves in this fashion, I cannot imagine other general people. Only Krishna can save this world. Haribol! anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcp1982 Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hare Krishna. People generally say respect all religions. But the main reason why the Christians eat meat is because the bible says 'animals are food'. When you argue with a Christian about animal killing, they will eventually point to the bible and justify it. The same goes for the Muslims, the Koran says animals should be killed and eaten to please Allah. No matter what you say about animal killing; cruelty, compassion etc.. These meat eaters are totally covered in ignorance by the scriptures they follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anand Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obeisances unto him! After reading your post I was intrigued by what is written in the Bible about meat eating and I did a google search on it. I have copied below 2 contradictory views about meat-eating based on the bible. Both by research scholars. 1st one- supporting meat eating Does God’s care, and the care that humans are supposed to have, mean that we must refrain from killing animals deliberately? Apparently not. Jesus certainly condoned fishing (John 21:6, Matthew 17:27, Luke 5:4). He certainly ate (Luke 24:42-43), and probably fished (John 21:9) even after His resurrection. Eating meat is used figuratively to stand for a very positive thing in the New Testament. Peter's vision, after the resurrection, and after Pentecost, used eating meat as a sign for that God does not show favoritism (Acts 11:1-18). Paul referred disparagingly to people who forbid eating meat (I Timothy 4:3). There are no explicit commands forbidding the consumption of all meat in the Bible. This is not to say that the Bible condones killing of animals wantonly. That would be contradictory to benign dominion. Nor does the Bible condone consumption of animal flesh (or any other kind of food) selfishly, or to excess. But we are allowed to kill non-human organisms for cause, at least. Such causes include killing an animal because it threatens a human (Exodus 21:29), killing for meat (Genesis 9:2-3, Leviticus 11:1-22) and killing an animal for its skin (Genesis 3:21). Exodus 12:21-23 and 12:46, and Mark 14:12, indicate clearly that the Passover, one of the most important ceremonies of the Jews, and the last ceremony Jesus performed with His disciples, involved eating meat. The Bible is very clear that humans and animals are not equals. Christ came in human form, principally to redeem humans, although the effects of redemption will be felt through all of creation. We have dominion over animals, not the reverse. That dominion implies responsible use, including research and killing for good cause. (Nothing in this paragraph rules out the practice of vegetarianism. Some Christians may decide, or God may even reveal to them, that they shouldn't eat meat. But they cannot prove that Scripture demands that Christians don't eat meat.) 2nd one- against meat eating Genesis 1:25; And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. Each stage of Genesis through 1:25 describes creation and ends with God's judgment that what he made was good. This is the core of thinking that what God makes is good, and what is good we should protect. By virtue of the creator, we are responsible to be caretakers of everything that is good, so to harm or destroy the land, the water, the air, or "the beasts of the Earth" is to harm or destroy what is good. Without specific instruction otherwise, the default position for any Jew or Christian should be to protect nature. Genesis 1:29; And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. This is the most important passage about how humans are to eat. We already have instruction to protect nature, but God gives the exemption that we are given plants to eat. We may harm plants to survive. This is important not only as instruction from God, but it indicates what all of science knows: that humans are anatomically similar to plant-eaters. Every segment of our digestive tract, how our whole anatomy corresponds with eating plants, and how we maintain better health as exclusive plant-eaters, are all powerful reminders that in Genesis, God made us to eat plants. Moses Cassuto (1883-1951), for example, in his commentary "From Adam to Noah" (p. 58) states: You are permitted to use the animals and employ them for work, have dominion over them in order to utilize their services for your subsistence, but must not hold their life cheap nor slaughter them for food. Your natural diet is vegetarian... This opinion is consistent with the Talmud, which states that people were initially vegetarians: "Adam was not permitted meat for purposes of eating." Interesting enough, Bible texts have similarity to Vedic principles, however, the Bible has been interpreted differently according to ones mode of nature. Haribol! anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 how is egg killing an animal? it hasn't even been born yet surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowdownmr Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 "guest" writes: "how is egg killing an animal? it hasn't even been born yet surely?" The egg is the "germ" of the animal, just like seeds contain the germ of plants. Look up the word "germinate" and you'll understand. An egg, as such, is an unborn, undeveloped animal. It is not a plant, it is not a dairy product, it is a living animal-to-be. We all start out as sperm and egg. Mammals just happen to carry out the incubation and development of the zygote (fertilized egg) internally. Birds, such as chickens, coat their zygotes with a shell and expel them. They sit on them until they hatch when fully developed, whereas mammals carry them inside and expel them when they are fully developed. So, there's little difference between meat and eggs. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Haribol, The bible seems to contain some contradictions regarding the eating of meat (as well as drinking alcohol) I have read that this is because emperor Constantine had the biblical scriptures 'corrected' during the early phase of Christianity as he was very fond of meat and alcohol. Over many centuries, many other things were apparently 'corrected' such as the belief in reincarnation and karma. My guess is that these decisions were made for various political reasons, eg to help make Christianity more popular by 'relaxing' the rules, and perhaps to make people feel that they had only one chance to develop love of God and get to heaven (via the Church), so that they would become more dependant on the Church. This early form of spin-doctering would help explain some of the contradictions found in the bible regarding meat eating, and naturally if meat eating is sanctioned so is egg eating. I am sure that Jesus's real teachings and statements in the bible have been tampered with. If they had not then true Christianity would be very close to Krishna Conciousness teachings in most essential aspects. Sorry for straying off the egg subject a bit but I thought it might still be of interest. Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Hare Krishna There is a pamphlet that was put out by Krishna Culture called "You mean that's in the bible?". It explains the different ways that the word that means nourishment,trophe,is wrongly translated for the word meat. Or the word phago, was translated as meat, but it's definition is really -to eat. It is a bit shocking since so many people take the bible as a life manual, and things are being represented wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Haribol, I have heard that many eggs that are 'free range' are quite often fertilised eggs, so an animals life really is being curtailed, and no one in their right mind would want to eat a egg from a battery hen, even if it was unfertilised. I am still quite inexperienced in KC and have made several mistakes, some very recently where I have eaten egg 'hidden' in other food, such as eating some biscuits at my Moms, and then later finding on peeking at the ingredient list on the packet that they contained egg! Why put egg in biscuits ? Its not needed. Same with some ice cream - some types are made with egg in the UK, but are always labelled as suitable for vegetarians. I have tried to become more careful but expect I will make the occasional further mistake, as sometimes, eg at a restaurant, you cannot check the labels, and many things that do not need to be made with egg such as biscuits, ice cream, and pasta, sometimes have egg in them. What should I do when I find I have made mistakes (assuming that I find even realise) ? Will Krishna forgive me ? Its difficult to avoid living in the material world. I have also made a mistake by eating some innocent looking sweets my daughter offered me only to find later that they contained gelatin (made from cows hooves) ..yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anand Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obeisances unto him! I totally relate to your problem- I have made that kind of mistake many times. You know the worst one was- this was on a Ekadashi day and I decided not to fast on that day. We had a class meeting and they were serving pizza. Pizza is one my favorite foods and in my fondness or shall i say in my greed to grab a slice before others, I just picked a slice without thinking and took a bite but I just bit the corner portion. My friend who was sitting beside me said it is a pepperoni topping slice you have in your hand. I was horrified. Eventhough I did not actually eat the pepperoni piece, I bit a portion of the pizza. I felt soooo guilty that on Ekadasi, I ate meat and that too a cow. I guess i will never be forgived by Krishna. But, I took it in my stride and just decided to be a better person in KC. I know I will commit many mistakes in the process of being a devotee but we just have to seek Krishna's mercy to protect us and slowly relinquish these eating habits and other habits for good so at the end we never eat food from outside. In all this, we have to seek KRISHNA's mercy and we should also sincerely ask HIM to help us quit eating NON-PRASADAM. So, dont worry, you have a company in me- if that is of any help!! Haribol! anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anand Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 I am sorry- i meant to say MARK and not MAX! Haribol! anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Thats ok Anand, I guessed you meant me! In some strange way it is sometimes good for me to make the occasional mistake, as although I feel very bad about it when I do, it makes me a little more humble, and also makes me want to try a little harder in future. rgds Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Even Rama and Krishna ate Meat and eggs,Eating anything is OK as long as you know you eat for your survival and if you do it for pleasure by excessive eating you are harming more living creatures and exceeding your quota of basic living (It is abuse) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrsinghadev Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Dear sir, your baseless response is evidence of your own ignorance on this subject matter. Please for your own good refrain from making any more statements on this matter until you have actually gained some knowledge about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Even Rama and Krishna ate Meat and eggs __not true Eating anything is OK as long as you know you eat for your survival ––it is not possible (and it is useless) to stop artificially the pleasure of eating. So we never eat only for survival. (i want to eat a little piece of your son or wife but i want to do it without any pleasure, are you agree?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 i would say eating an egg is like eating an unborn baby. imagine eating a human foetus. at the end of the day you are stopping a life from living if you eat eggs. it is a totally unnecessary ingredient and there are many substitutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 i've never really understood the concept of eggs, free-rane etc. what does free range mean? why is it considered veggie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 It is not even close to being condisered veggie, unless they learned to stuff vegetables into a shell. Free range only means that they give the chickens a little more room to roam around and don't keep them in a tiny box. I think they also may feed them more grain and grass, but not sure about that. But I know that they are 100% not veggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 i agree with you. i am just wondering of the life-cycle of the egg. after how many months does it germinate/hatch etc? how much pain is it feeling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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