what do you think of these texts.

[vishnu]

part of teachings of Jesus Christ in India.

 

5 He passed six years at Juggernaut, at Rajagriha, at Benares, and in the other holy cities. Everyone loved him, for Issa lived in peace with the Vaisyas and the Sudras, whom he instructed in the holy scriptures.

 

6 But the Brahmans and the Kshatriyas told him that they were forbidden by the great Para-Brahma to come near to those whom he had created from his side and his feet;

 

7 That the Vaisyas were only authorized to hear the reading of the Vedas, and this on festival days only;

 

8 That the Sudras were forbidden not only to assist at the reading of the Vedas, but also from contemplating them, for their condition was to serve in perpetuity as slaves to the Brahmans, the Kshatriyas, and even the Vaisyas.

 

9 "'Death only can set them free from their servitude' has said Para-Brahma. Leave them then and come and worship with us the gods, who will become incensed against thee if thou cost disobey them."

 

10 But Issa listened not to their discourses and betook him to the Sudras, preaching against the Brahmans and the Kshatriyas.

 

11 He inveighed against the act of a man arrogating to himself the power to deprive his fellow beings of their rights of humanity; "for," said he, "God the Father makes no difference between his children; all to him are equally dear."

 

12 Issa denied the divine origin of the Vedas* and the Puranas*. "For," taught he to his followers, "a law has already been given to man to guide him in his actions

13 "Fear thy God, bend the knee before him only, and bring to him alone the offerings which proceed from thy gains."

 

''14 Issa denied the Trimurti and the incarnation of Para-Brahma in Vishnu, Siva*, and other gods, for said he: 15 "The Judge Eternal, the Eternal Spirit, comprehends the one and indivisible soul of the universe, which alone creates, contains, and vivifies all.

 

20 "The anger of God will soon be let loose against man; for he has forgotten his Creator, he has filled his temples with abominations, and he worships a crowd of creatures which God has made subordinate to him.

 

23 "Those who deprive their brethren of divine happiness shall be deprived of it themselves. The Brahmans and the Kshatriyas shall become the Sudras, and with the Sudras the Eternal shall dwell everlastingly.

 

24 "Because in the day of the last judgment the Sudras and the Vaisyas will be forgiven much because of their ignorance, while God, on the contrary, will punish with his wrath those who have arrogated to themselves his rights."

 

25 The Vaisyas and the Sudras were filled with great admiration and asked Issa how they should pray so as not to lose their eternal felicity.

 

26 "Worship not the idols, for they hear you not. Listen not to the Vedas, for their truth is counterfeit. Never put yourself in the first place and never humiliate your neighbor.

 

7 In crossing pagan territories, the divine Issa taught that the worship of visible gods was contrary to the law of nature.

 

8 "For man," said he, "has not been permitted to see the image of God, and yet he has made a host of deities in the likeness of the Eternal.

 

 

many things in these texts-i believe it all- is comtrary to what some here seem to believe

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

What are your credentials?

 

age, location, education, religion of birth?

 

All your comments/articles are complete non-sense concoctions. This is the hare krisha forum not a Jesus concoction forum. You would be better off in a Christian forum. So please leave now. The hare krishnas are fully devoted to Lord Krishna and have no interest in another God.

[Guest guest]

these text without the guidance of a pure commentator are showing for many of us an irreligious image of jesus christ

 

many gaudya vaishnava masters have said that jesus is a pure spiritual master or shaktiavesha avatara, so the fact that jesus in this text speaks against the trimurti, the vedas, the deva's worship, the murti's worship, and that he speaks of an end of the world, an armageddon, it is the sign trhat these text are not authentic or that they have to be examined in a context

 

my conclusion is that these text are useless for increasing love for god and maybe blasphemous against krsna, jagannath, trimurti, vedas, devatas and jesus christ ... our acharyas gave a different image of christ, a defender of dharma, not a destroyer of it..

 

so stop bothering your and our selves with such stuff

 

 

 

[vishnu]

21,NETHERLANDS,YOU DONT KNOW OUR SYSTEM, PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, NOW, MAINLY BIBLE.

 

[vishnu]

You MIGHT also be so openminded and acknowledge the vedas do not hold the supreme truth about God but that he has revealed himself thru the bible as well.

Jesus irreligious? why is it irreligious to bring a perfect religion which worships only the true God, instead of idols and lesser gods?

 

he hardly destroys dharma with stating that the texts are also for lower castes and that any restrictions on that is manmade, not Godly.

 

[Guest guest]

Vishnu,

 

We are not gullable or poor, so you are are simply wasting your time trying to convert us. It won't work, so go somewhere else.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You MIGHT also be so openminded and acknowledge the vedas do not hold the supreme truth about God

--i accept statements like that by someone who has faithfully followed vedas under guidance of a pure guru and did not have results. vedas teach to me that i have not to follow anyone blindly. So i am sorry but you are saying nothing

 

Jesus irreligious?

--no.. this text is depicting jesus as an asura... so please stop blaspheming jesus

 

why is it irreligious to bring a perfect religion which worships only the true God, instead of idols and lesser gods?

--i agree with you.. so why have you brought a text where jesus seems to be against the true religion?

 

if you are here to take us away from vedic religion, please do it in a more effective way. And please study it a little, otherwise you don't know how to criticize

 

gave us some respect.. get some better information, be critic but not blaspheme.. please

[Guest guest]

It seems Vishnus is a Hindu convert to Christianity. You are simply a beggar who has given up a diamond for stool.

 

 

[Guest guest]

the problem is that he's not serious as a christian as he maybe was not serious as hindu

 

so he cannot make us stop to be krsna conscious practitioneers but he's only giving bad reputation to christianity showing himself so approximative and uninformed

 

he's actually blaspheming both religions

[Max_]

You guys give me a headache sometimes.

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

Dear Vishnu, your click-paste game has gone too far now. You have not bothered to visit the links i provided to you earlier which have the original versions of these texts (the accuracy of whom itself are very doubtful) and then used this plagarised version which you have picked from some Christian propaganda site and unscrupulously pasted here to claim false gods etc. The originals are completely different, and in any case these themselves are very doubtful because they come from Aquarian gospel or something. You will need to do a lot of research to find the originals which are in some lhasa monastary and no longer exist.

 

I tried to help you to the best of my ability, but your intentions are clearly different than trying to learn the Truth or Krishna-Consciousness philosophy. You indulge in blasphemy of both Jesus and Krishna though, of course, since you have tried to show the superiority of Jesus you will be very happy and think that Jesus will be mighty pleased with you but you do not recognise the fact that it just maybe completely opposite.

 

You presented everything and everyone in poor light by your words, and there is nothing more i can do for you -- sorry.

[Guest guest]

There are many ignorant deceiving christians.

 

Vishnu is at the top of them.

 

Vishnu, You fool, you fail to realize that it's god who creates the non-christians at his will.

[vishnu]

Hello Friend

Well either i missed one link, because i have visited one link you gave me. but its VERY long and i cant read it all on a single night.

I'm sorry you feel this way about me.

You are wrong, I do want the truth.

the site from which i plucked Saint Issa's story is a site which combines every religion.

How could I claim a false God?

I proclaim Krishna Jesus, the Eternal One.

which one is false?

I want to learn KC philosophy, if its from God, but i will always have in the back of my head that human wisdom is foolishness by God. KC philosophy is just as much written in the bible (NT) as in your texts. I love to read them both. yesterday i was quite busy.

How do I blasphemise jesus and krishna? I think they are one. thats all. So no, i do not show jesus his superiority. that would be like saying im superior to myself.

 

 

Godblessyou

 

[vishnu]

yes,, he creates nonchristians at his will. he also creates fools like me, or vaishnavas, at his will /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Loveya

[vishnu]

Hello Guest

 

Hey, I never said Vedic isnt full of wisdom.

How is this text depicting Jesus as an asura?

I didnt blaspheme, i quoted and wish to know your ideas about the text.

What is the true religion? How is worshipping the eternal not the true religion? How is it not the true religion to say that God loves all his Children? How is it not true religion to say that the lower castes have a right to read the text?

Im not here to take anyone away. im here to talk about my beliefs, our Lord. I believe slightly different than you, thats all.

loveya and godbless

 

 

 

[vishnu]

Man, I love you, but you really don't know a thing about how serious I am, simply because i do not chant in your way!

God is all on my mind the entire day!

 

But your right i was not serious as a hindu, because i never was a hindu, not in that way. I worship God, thats hindu enough for me. and I believe Krishna.

 

GOD FORBID THAT I WOULD STOP YOU FROM ACHIEVING KC, AND PRACTICE KC!

 

Loveya, godbless

[Guest guest]

How is this text depicting Jesus as an asura?

--because in this text jesus put in discussion many principles of vedic culture. But we know that jesus is a pure dharmic spiritual master, so this text is a fake.

Please, what's the use to discuss of a text who has dubious authenticity? We want to know god, not to fantasize about god

 

What is the true religion? How is worshipping the eternal not the true religion?

--first practice and learn at least ONE religion then we will have a common ground to discuss. You are in a forum called "hare krsna", we follow such process.. if you want to discuss with people who follow this process and maybe to put this process in discussion you have to learn it and follow it.

So study carefully the bhagavad gita ( http://www.asitis.com/ ) and ask verse for verse to clarify your doubts and to share your realizations. You have also to chant the hare krsna mantra at least for five minutes every day (hare krishna, hare krishna, krishna krishna, hare hare, hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare).

In this way you will know us and the purpose of this site.. in this way, knowing us, you also will able to do some objections if you feel useful.

Now you do not have the language, the notions necessary to start a true communication.. so study and practice, then you will communicate.

Imagine to go in a forum of airplane pilotes and giving critics and opinions having never been in an airplane.

So study and practice our "airplane" or the converstation with you will never be useful..

 

I believe slightly different than you, thats all.

--you simply do not know what's my belief and you show to believe simply in yourself

 

i have already said it.. if you want to speak with me about my religion you have to know what's my religion... so study and practice, otherwise you are only a disturbance

[sumedh]

Dear Vishnu

Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

 

I will try to explain the situation. Firstly, the links are the three which were provided after you posted your original quotes from that site (Jesus went to India... thread). Secondly, these themselves are of dubious nature because they come from Aquarian gospel which most christians themselves do not believe in anyways. A few senior devotees have explained these with the Vedic knowledge, but we should not try such things. We must be like a honey-bee but first we must be qualified to understand what the nectar is. Then the snippets you gave have been interpolated and there is no mention of Vedas or timurti etc. being false in the originals. Instead if you read the second link it says that Jesus read the Vedas in the Jagannath temple and explained their full meanings clearly. All vaishnava Masters already oppose the behaviour of smarta brahmana community which has really digressed from Vedas. But since you have not tried to understand these things your conclusions have been quite wrong.

 

How they have been offensive is simple, though you will not realize it. The quote said and you supported the thesis that Jesus rejected the Vedas, trimurti, etc. in favour of his own conception of God -- from the point of view of one who understands Vedas this means that Jesus rejected God/Krishna because Krishna Himself says that He is the Veda and compiler of Vedanta-Sutra and Vedas talk of God full with six opulences. For the vaishnavas who understand Deity worship this means that Jesus did not even know what Deity worship means, or how is it any different than worshipping a mental conception of unmanifest God (or cross), or that when he says "idols or lesser gods" it means nothing for there is only one God. This means that by presenting this and justifying it you effectively rejected that Jesus was a Guru. And such a conclusion is offensive to both Jesus and Krishna.

 

I have been trying to explain that Truth cannot be have had by reading and pasting things from internet from xyz sites. There are three ways to get there: by Guru, Sadhu and Shastra. Guru has two aspects -- one sad-Guru or external Guru and other chaitya-Guru meaning the Lord in the heart. In the absence of our capability to recognize a Sadhu, or a sad-Guru nor being able to clearly listen to chaitya-Guru the way to understand a spiritual discipline is to read its authorized books and practise it which is particularly true of the Vaishnava philosophy. Without practising it for some time it is not possible to understand it. Then the way to do it is to read Sri Ishopanishad, booklets like Perfect Questions and Perfect Answers, Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Srimad-Bhagavatam in that order before going to Chaitanya-Charitamrta, Brahma-Samhita etc. (all these are available in the books section of this site) and try and practise it. It takes some time particularly with the vaishnava disciplines. (there are many unauthorized and incorrect translations of Gita floating around, so if you want to read from Krishna-Consciousness point of view you will need to get this version)

 

So the questions from your side should have been of the kind of trying to understand verses or meanings from scriptures or the practise/philosophy, rather than comparing status of scriptures or trying to find errors in them using quotes from here and there. You should realize that there are many-many quotes which can show the multitude of errors in Bible but that will hardly serve any purpose. I sincerely want you to be successful in your endevour and find all the pearls i have found and more, but there is a procedure for this which will show our sincerity. The only thing that is wanted is to leave this "quotes from websites" thing and read the authorized books instead, and then everyone will be happy.

[Guest guest]

Hello Mr. Vinsnu,

If you believe in Jesus. That's fine and very good. But I don't unerstand what r u trying to accomplish by discussing all this in this forum? This is simply waste of yor and everybody else's time.

Thanks

[vishnu]

"--because in this text jesus put in discussion many principles of vedic culture. But we know that jesus is a pure dharmic spiritual master, so this text is a fake.

Please, what's the use to discuss of a text who has dubious authenticity? We want to know god, not to fantasize about god"

Might I remind you of one thing? This is Kali Yuga! you know, that age of darkness and no moral! So maybe you were the ones who has over time misused and flasified all the sacred texts and their meaning! If Jesus says it, i believe him over other gurus any time, given that hes son of God.

 

 

"--first practice and learn at least ONE religion then we will have a common ground to discuss.

"

I believe in one God, not one religion. In one church or temple 2 people might coexist professing to have the same religion but one is MUCH closer to God and has much more divine qualities.

 

"You are in a forum called "hare krsna", we follow such process.. if you want to discuss with people who follow this process and maybe to put this process in discussion you have to learn it and follow it.

So study carefully the bhagavad gita ( http://www.asitis.com/ )

"gladly

"and ask verse for verse to clarify your doubts and to share your realizations. You have also to chant the hare krsna mantra at least for five minutes every day (hare krishna, hare krishna, krishna krishna, hare hare, hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare).

"

what makes 5 minutes of singing that a necesity, when i just spend 3 hours singing and reciting psalms?

God is Happy and comes closer with EVERY genuine offering.

"

In this way you will know us and the purpose of this site.. in this way, knowing us, you also will able to do some objections if you feel useful.

Now you do not have the language, the notions necessary to start a true communication.. so study and practice, then you will communicate.

"

do not think Krishnas language will be the same as those of all the gurus and yourself. His ways are much higher.

"

Imagine to go in a forum of airplane pilotes and giving critics and opinions having never been in an airplane.

So study and practice our "airplane" or the converstation with you will never be useful..

"

good parable. might i add:the airforce base is called God, and there is more than one airplane there, all loved by God, all useful, some in other ways...

and they should not argue but unite under one banner.

 

"--you simply do not know what's my belief and you show to believe simply in yourself

"you dont know mine either so tell this to yourself, it was never my intention to come here and quarrel.

"

i have already said it.. if you want to speak with me about my religion you have to know what's my religion... so study and practice, otherwise you are only a disturbance

"

youll get back on that.

[vishnu]

"

Secondly, these themselves are of dubious nature because they come from Aquarian gospel which most christians themselves do not believe in anyways. "

 

Are you sure thats their origin?

well i dont know, i just wanted to search for truth which i once knew but forgotten.

 

"A few senior devotees have explained these with the Vedic knowledge, but we should not try such things. We must be like a honey-bee but first we must be qualified to understand what the nectar is."

who decides who is qualified? you can study for ages and sit in the temple for 80 years and some still are only wise on the outside.

 

"Then the snippets you gave have been interpolated and there is no mention of Vedas or timurti etc. being false in the originals.

Instead if you read the second link it says that Jesus read the Vedas in the Jagannath temple and explained their full meanings clearly.

"

that doesnt have to contradict but if your right im only glad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

"

All vaishnava Masters already oppose the behaviour of smarta brahmana community which has really digressed from Vedas. But since you have not tried to understand these things your conclusions have been quite wrong.

"

could be. just trying to locate God here.

"

How they have been offensive is simple, though you will not realize it. The quote said and you supported the thesis that Jesus rejected the Vedas, trimurti, etc. in favour of his own conception of God --

"no, if jesus says something about God, than he tells the truth of God himself, he doesnt make things up.

"from the point of view of one who understands Vedas this means that Jesus rejected God/Krishna because Krishna Himself says that He is the Veda and compiler of Vedanta-Sutra and Vedas talk of God full with six opulences.

"

whats opulence? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

" For the vaishnavas who understand Deity worship this means that Jesus did not even know what Deity worship means, or how is it any different than worshipping a mental conception of unmanifest God (or cross), or that when he says "idols or lesser gods" it means nothing for there is only one God.

"Of course not. if i were to bow down in worship for you or a statue representing nothing, i would be idolising.

Worshipping Krishna is different from that.

"This means that by presenting this and justifying it you effectively rejected that Jesus was a Guru. And such a conclusion is offensive to both Jesus and Krishna."

jesus is son of God. if i reject anything, its the gurus of this age before jesus.

as i said, we are in kali yuga arent we.

So those outside wise people might be rotten to the core.

 

"I have been trying to explain that Truth cannot be have had by reading and pasting things from internet from xyz sites. There are three ways to get there: by Guru, Sadhu and Shastra. Guru has two aspects -- one sad-Guru or external Guru and other chaitya-Guru meaning the Lord in the heart. In the absence of our capability to recognize a Sadhu, or a sad-Guru nor being able to clearly listen to chaitya-Guru the way to understand a spiritual discipline is to read its authorized books and practise it which is particularly true of the Vaishnava philosophy. Without practising it for some time it is not possible to understand it. Then the way to do it is to read Sri Ishopanishad, booklets like Perfect Questions and Perfect Answers, Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Srimad-Bhagavatam in that order before going to Chaitanya-Charitamrta, Brahma-Samhita etc. (all these are available in the books section of this site) and try and practise it. It takes some time particularly with the vaishnava disciplines. (there are many unauthorized and incorrect translations of Gita floating around, so if you want to read from Krishna-Consciousness point of view you will need to get this version)"ill see that ill read one day them all and find out what its all about /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i know this:

Vishnu wants love for himself and others.

hed rather have an illiteral child running toward him than a proud man who has read many books but who would betray him immediately if they were subjected to torture.

 

"So the questions from your side should have been of the kind of trying to understand verses or meanings from scriptures or the practise/philosophy, rather than comparing status of scriptures or trying to find errors in them using quotes from here and there.

"I try to find the truth actually, but i stumble on errors or contradictions.

"You should realize that there are many-many quotes which can show the multitude of errors in Bible but that will hardly serve any purpose. I sincerely want you to be successful in your endevour and find all the pearls i have found and more, "

I will be succesful and see my Abba and Lords face again as i continuely did when i was a child.

"

but there is a procedure for this which will show our sincerity. The only thing that is wanted is to leave this "quotes from websites" thing and read the authorized books instead, and then everyone will be happy.

"

...

[Guest guest]

Mr. Vishnu,

Can you explain "Thou shall not Kill"

[vishnu]

i believe in krishna also and whethen you like it or not you are my brethren as well.

[vishnu]

Whats to explain. books can be written about it. what matters is doing the will of God. Who alone has perfect plans and rules the universe from the best perspective which is best for everything.

I know that God brought us all here on earth for a reason and we all have our job to do here and we are going against Gods plan-of course he can make things right after we error- if we stop the life of one of our fellow human beings.

Until God decides to kill someone thru our swords, as he did thru the hands of the jews in the past and im sure he does it now also.

animals and plants were created for us, both as food, but also to care about and love.

But gods idea of what (a) 'Life' is might be very more complex. purusha. everything which stops people from being 'alive' might be a sin. also, jesus said that there is written thou shalt not kill, but he said:everyone who calls his brethren a fool or emptyhead will be the victim of (gods) judgement.

 

godbless /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

So maybe you were the ones who has over time misused and flasified all the sacred texts and their meaning!

--maybe yes or maybe not.. to know if vaishnavas are cheaters you have to become a vaishnava and practice accurately vaishnavism. If you'll get no results you will be right in saying that vaishnavas misuse sacred text. I practice, you do not practice.. To communicate with me you have to come in my world.. otherwise there's nothing to communicate

 

If Jesus says it, i believe him

--i am not sure that jesus says it.. if you are sure.. good luck and stop boring if you cannot demonstrate it

 

I believe in one God, not one religion

--religion means connection wih god... are you against it?

 

In one church or temple 2 people might coexist professing to have the same religion but one is MUCH closer to God and has much more divine qualities.

--that's right.. at least they have a common ground to communicate, exchange doubts, experiences..

 

what makes 5 minutes of singing that a necesity, when i just spend 3 hours singing and reciting psalms?

--that's not our problem now... you are simply criticizing something that you do not know. I do not come in your "psalm" forum with my proposals and ideas without knowing what's the effect of reciting "psalms" for three hours..

Simply if you want to know the people whom you are speaking, often criticizing their belief, you have to know and experience these belief. The fact that you do not understand the difference between chanting psalms or the lords name means that you simply have no knowledge of our philosophy.. so you are not really communicating and you are going on not wanting to communicate

 

do not think Krishnas language will be the same as those of all the gurus and yourself.

--have you something more effective and authoritative of "i do not think?". Study krsna consciousness, read the gita, chant hare krsna and you'll have the language and technical notions to discuss creatively and effectively. In this way it is your belief against my consciousness and culture.. and i believe in myself more than in yourself

 

there is more than one airplane there, all loved by God, all useful, some in other ways...

--you are in the site of this airplane.. so learn something of it.. otherwise there's no communication

 

and they should not argue but unite under one banner

--firts have a knowledge of what you want to unite.. then decide

 

it was never my intention to come here and quarrel.

--but it is the result..

 

simply you are attempting to relationate with people and beliefs that you do not know, proposing solutions, criticizing, saying that jesus told something different and so on... why it is so difficult for you to understand that if you do not know this philosophy and practice your discussion is useless?

 

i am not asking that you admiti to be wrong or something like that, i am asking that if you want to criticize me it is better that you do it with some knowledge from the inside of my philosophy, otherwise i cannot accept blindly what you say

 

in this way you are causing offenses and blasphemy to jesus christ because the western hare krsnas with christian background have no problem in reading you being so fanatical and sectarian because they know already jesus christ and they know that he's not like you are showing him.. but our indians godbrother, who do not know christ so much, they identify christianity with your ideas and proposals and they think that jesus is an enemy of sanatana dharma

 

so.. again... enter in our world if you want to communicate